Lurker > colliding

not sure why I bother, but whatever

people are more likely to respond to disagreeable things that they have been hearing their entire life, like "America is the best country in the world." this is very easily shut down by discussing its history of colonialism, discrimination, and slavery. he ruined is experiment by spouting nationalistic, blindly patriotic, rhetoric.

some dude waving an ISIS flag is clearly just being a contrarian. that person is also less likely to be argued with because overall, people are less familiar with it. it's not that people are supporting ISIS by not confronting him, it's that they are actually more suspicious of him and less prepared to argue with him.

Mini "Rankings from a Lurker" topic:

Worst

Iron Man 2
Incredible Hulk
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Doctor Strange
Thor: The Dark World
Iron Man 3
Thor
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Captain America: First Avenger
Guardians of the Galaxy 2
Captain America: Civil War
The Avengers
Ant Man
Thor: Ragnarok
Iron Man
Guardians of the Galaxy
Captain America: The Winter Soldier

Best

I still feel like the dub will be better in-game than in trailers. We'll see.

fake news

this is the last time I bump the page.

expect another one of these ranking threads after Thanksgiving. This one will have a wider audience

5 has the best gameplay, 3 has the best characters and music

P3P is my preferred version

LapisLazuli posted...

Quick rate these characters.

https://twitter.com/SpikeChunsoft_e/status/925898004527063040

1. Chemist - Would be a better K1-B0
2. Football Player - By Default
3. Detective - This is a Fairy Tail gag

LapisLazuli posted...

Some of V3's talents read like they were running out of ideas a bunch of seasons into a show or something.

;)

The talents actually sort of made sense for my mid-Chapter 4 wacky theory that half the cast were graduates of Hope's peak sent to terraform a planet (Astronaut, Entomologist, Robot, the Prime Minister, Anthropologist, Inventor, Pianist, and Rantaro - the Farmer) and the other half were Remnants of Despair bent on foiling their plans.

"Sort of" makes sense.

The ending is not a retcon

It's still a bad ending though, for reasons Nanis pointed out pretty well

NioraptH posted...

Them: But Muslims are from the Middle East.

Me: I'm part Malay, part Chinese, from Southeast Asia.

Them: But you can't be. You're Muslim. There are no such things as Chinese Muslims.

Me: ... Is there anything else?

Them: Just tell me where you're really from.

I teach at a university and I hear this conversation happen every semester. It's wild how poor a job the U.S. education system does in teaching about world religions other than Christianity.

An annoying question. Don't ask it.

I'm all for listening to arguments about the soundtrack being overrated.

There's no defense of these characters though, other than like 8 at most.

Which is why my dream game has always been a remake of CC with a stronger narrative centered around Serge, Kid, Another World Leena, Glenn, Karsh, Fargo, Norris, and Riddell, with a brief period of the game featuring Lynx, Harle, and Spriggan. Add more double and triple techs. Boom, perfect. (Also take out that part about Lucca and the original cast getting murdered

Me, misremember something? Never!

Regardless of his motivations it's still the best set-up/murder in the series

The list, in all its "glory," with annotations.

Box of Tissues
48. Hiyoko Saionji (I don't regret this ranking)
47. Leon Kuwata (I just remembered how 11037 came back in DR2 and now I wish he was higher)

Monkey Paw
46. Mahiru Koizumi (Thinking back on "Twilight Syndrome..." maybe should have been higher)
45. Celestia Ludeberg (Still not a fan)
44. Korekiyo Shinguji (not good)
43. Teruteru Hanamura (still a sentimental favorite, definitely deserving of a low ranking though)
42. Ultimate Imposter (maybe too high actually)
41. Sayaka Maizono (could've been lower tbh)

Secret Boots
40. Tsumugi Shirogane (i'll take "missed opportunity" for 400 Alex)
39. Hifumi Yamada (haters to the back)
38. Kiyotaka Ishimaru (I like him, but yeah, boring)
37. Peko Pekoyama (higher, maybe?)
36. Mondo Owata (nothing to add here)
35. Angie Yonaga (I forgot to mention her annoying sprites... or did I)
34. Akane Owari (whatever)
33. Tenko Chabashira (I agree with everyone. should have been higher in retrospect)
32. Kazuichi Soda (lower... way lower)
31. Gonta Gokuhara (no regrets. this dude is boring and totally not mentally challenged)

Rose in Vitro
30. Sakura Ogami (fine where she is)
29. Kirumi Tojo (top tier character design, wtf backstory and chapter)
28. Nekomaru Nidai (difficult character to rank)
27. Himiko Yumeno (I think a straight swap of her and Tenko makes sense)
26. Yasuhiro Hagakure (probably too high, but whatever, I think he's funny)
25. Sonia Nevermind (I apologize for "smells like teen waifus" - I was reaching for a Nirvana ref)
24. Mukuro Ikusaba (way too high, don't know what I was thinking)
23. Ryoma Hoshi (this is fine)
22. Mikan Tsumiki (hated her voice)
21. Chihiro Fujisaki (ehhh, I kind of hate Chihiro. I could see him falling lower)

Eternal Friendship Bracelet
20. K1-B0 (Didn't even mention his fanservice stuff with Miu)
19. Aoi Asahina (way too high, I see this now. But, you know, breasts)
18 Shuichi Saihara (Shuichi sux)
17. Toko Fukawa (so annoying. If a DR fan tells you Toko/GJ is their favorite, run away)
16. Ibuki Mioda (If I made a separate list of favorites based purely on personality, then sure. higher)
15. Miu Iruma (doujin bait)
14. Makoto Naegi (deal with it.)
13. Rantaro Amami (I'll take "missed opportunity" for 600, Alex. It's a daily double)
12. Kaito Momota (you're gonna carry that weight)
11. Junko Enoshima (No way she deserves top 10. 11 is perfect for her).

Hope's Peak Class Ring
10. Maki Harakawa (Maybe too high, I dunno. Too cliche?)
9. Byakuya Togami (He was originally going to be 4 on my first draft)
8. Kaede Akamatsu (Only in series for one chapter, still in top 10. Sounds right)
7. Chiaki Nanami (Again, I hate the idea of this character, but I can't argue against her impact)
6. Kyoko Kirigiri (Too high, probably)
5. Gundham Tanaka (The evil eye told me not to make him #1)
4. Kokichi Ouma (plus, his character design is stupid)
3. Hajime Hinata (so cool)
2. Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu (you've come a long way)
1. Nagito Komaeda (fight me)

1. Nagito Komaeda
Appears in: Danganronpa 2
Ultimate Identity: Lucky Student
Endearing Character Trait: He Beat Cancer

I guess Nagito is a polarizing character - this is somewhat surprising to me, as I assumed he would be universally praised for being a unique deconstruction of the first game's themes. In choosing good ol Papenbrook to come back, we see the twisted dualisms of luck and hope. His motivations are completely backwards and often non-sensical, but that's part of what makes him so compelling.

To start on a completely shallow level: his character design isn't all that interesting, aside from the coat, which is pretty cool.

Nagito being the first character Hajime meets is fairly indicative of his appearance: it's not Chiaki, Fake Byakuya, or Mikan... it's Nagito. Players are disoriented due to the familiarity of the voice and his suspicious nature. Even though Nagito is fairly harmless at the beginning, as soon as the killing game starts, his blind allegiance to "hope" really ramps up.

This makes some sense within the DR universe: if an abstract concept like "despair" can make Junko infect the entire world with crazy, it makes sense that "hope" wouldn't just be found within the relatively sane actions of Makoto. No, a blind obsession with hope would have the same potential for insanity.

Nagito continues the "anti-Makoto" characterization through his luck. We sort of took it for granted in DR1 that "luck" meant predominantly "good luck." With Nagito, we see the "bad luck" counterbalance. Which naturally leads to the utter brilliance of Goodbye Despair chapter 5. Nothing in V3 comes close to matching it (the closest is probably Kiyo's SEESAW power). Seeing Nagito using his luck powers in such crazy, almost mystical ways was super compelling. His cruelty, in the name of "hope," to create a murder that would reveal the traitor is so batshit, but again, a twisted form of heroism.

With Nagito, we also get that great bit where we take control of him and solve the "Virtues Last Reward" minigame in strawberry house. I still don't understand Othello so I have no idea how I got through that, but it was a great moment and a nice break from Hajime.

So yeah, Nagito is tops. The end.

2. Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu
Appears in: Danganronpa 2
Ultimate Identity: Yakuza Boss
Endearing Character Trait: Don't FUCK with me!

If Shuichi is an example in an ultimately failed character arc, then Fuyuhiko is absolutely one of the best I've witnessed in videogames. It's not just the fact that he goes from "openly antagonistic" to a "team player," like Byakuya, it's the fact that Fuyuhiko goes from irredeemably broken to positively heroic.

Fuyuhiko definitely starts as a little turd, there's no getting around that. The fact that the team could make a baby-faced Yakuza poseur turn likable by the end is testament to their ability.

Best thing about Fuyuhiko's arc is that the writers don't wait until Chapter 5 to start it. From Peko's execution, to Fuyuhiko's recovering, to his opening up his stitches apologizing, to his continued relevance to the plot throughout chapters 4, 5, and 6, the player witnesses this evolution in a gradual softening of his demanor and language. He's still a strong character, but he has resolve now. We learn more about Fuyuhiko than we do about most characters: his sister, his anxieties over being a yakuza, his over reliance upon Peko.

So yeah, Fuyuhiko rules.

Next: It's Nagito.

ya'll are too hard on Makoto for the reasons already outlined above. but me ranking him above shuichi probably has more to do with my distaste for shuichi than a love for makoto. I enjoyed playing as shuichi and I get what they were trying to do with his character, but I also think he doesn't quite succeed in the role the writers laid out for him.

3. Hajime Hinata
Appears in: Danganronpa 2
Ultimate Identity: Hope/Izuru Kamukura/ Reserve Course
Endearing Character Trait: JYB vibes

Hajime's the best protag. That alone gets him a high spot in the rankings. He's the best protag because he's not the vanilla blandness of Makoto, nor is he a black hole of unlikability like Shuichi. Despite him being the ultimate ??? for most of the game, he handles the cases with aplomb, reacts realistically to situations, and figures things out rather well. Admittedly, a lot of this is due to personal taste - JYB does a good job with his voice and his "objection" music is my favorite music from the series (as I mentioned earlier).

His backstory helps deepen the DR universe in a way that doesn't feel like a forced retcon. It makes sense to me that there's a "reserve course" and that they would all get merked during the Tragedy. Him actually being a really scary looking Gonta-type dude named Izuru Kamukura is pretty interesting. I'll never forget "Chapter zero" or whatever in Goodbye Despair, where you see this evil swirl of hair and Nagito with Junko's fucking hand attached to his arm. Hell yeah, these are the types of whacked out plot developments that DR is all about.

The triangle between he, Chiaki and Nagito is so interesting that when two of them are taken off the table in Chapter 5, the story seems to dip a bit. It's really up to Hajime after that to carry on the momentum of the plot and I think he succeeds fairly well.

Next: One of the best character arcs in video games.

episode 7 is so bad ya'll. it's just so obvious and cliche.

overall, I thought this was just ok. hopefully in season 3 they keep the kids grouped together

LapisLazuli posted...

Listen you fuck.

I already know your little game is gonna be USO DA YOOOOOO and it's Ouma.

Don't taunt me.

What can I say, you just get me.

4. Kokichi Ouma
Appears in: Danganronpa V3
Ultimate Identity: Supreme Leader
Endearing Character Trait: That one sprite... you know the one

I lied.

Like I said, I was hoping you all could save some of your Nagito/Kokichi debate for a few more rankings. In this ranking, I don't want to merely compare the two characters. Kokichi stands on his own merits quite well, despite the fact that people's first impressions might be to say "he's Nagito-lite" or "he's Nagito except likeable." I don't think either of those are quite accurate.

Kokichi starts off as just a weird, annoying kid. In a lot of people's playthroughs, I've noticed a similar sort of appraisal. Who is this kid? Why is is just aggravatingly mean to K1-B0? What's with this "insect meet n'greet" BS? Suffice it to say, I didn't enjoy him at the beginning of this game, as he just seemed like an obvious antagonist.

Thankfully, Kokichi gets more interesting as the game goes on, coming to a head in Case 4. There are very few characters I've ever hated more in the entire second part of the trial. The end of the case, when you find the message in the ground - another top moment in the series. The game builds up to Kokichi being the mastermind really well.

And then, he actually isn't the mastermind. This is at once annoying and also kind of genius, if, like me, you think of Kokichi having a second "ultimate" ability (like Makoto) - the ultimate liar. Cause he really is. He really is the perfect embodiment of the themes that V3 was working with.

Still, I can't help but feel a little disappointed with Kokichi's plan in Chapter 5. Maybe I have more of a problem with it resolving with Kaito just sort of admitting to the plan at the end. Like, the fact that the "unsolvable murder" is actually quite "solvable".... nyeh. Also, I don't quite buy what people were saying earlier about Kokichi being one of the only characters willing to sacrifice for the killing game to end, like he's actually some really good guy. I think he's more of just a Loki type figure living to mess up the status quo no matter what it is. I don't buy any arguments that this dude felt any sort of real emotions toward the rest of the cast.

A few random thoughts: 1) What was up with his "crew" or whatever? Like Kaede's twin, are they just thrown in there for no reason? 2) Kokichi is like if Batman and the Joker had a kid. 3) I tried to find a picture of him at "full evil" but instead I found a bunch of really disturbing fanart. Yikes.

Next: A male character from Goodbye Despair.

5. Gundham Tanaka
Appears in: Danganronpa 2
Ultimate Identity: Breeder
Endearing Character Trait: Burn in the fires of pandemonium

Gundham is the best, obviously. I was tempted to put him first, but the rest of the characters on the list probably end up doing more interesting things, while Gundham is just pure coolness through and through.

His ultimate identity is "breeder," which really disturbs me, so I've always considered him to be the Ultimate Pokemon Trainer. His repeated references to gyms says as much. However, I also kind of like the idea that he's just the "ultimate kid in charge of taking care of the class pet" trope. The four dark devas are also superstars as well.

All of this to say that Gundham might be a "gimmick" character, but he's an insanely well-done gimmick character. One reason it works is because his voice acting is top notch. He's like an over-the-to mixture of Dr. Orpheus and uhhh Vegeta I guess. That makes him sound dumb, but he really isn't.

We talked about this a little with Sonia, but Gundham has a surprising amount of heart. A highlight of the series for me is Chapter 4 in DR 2. The idea of Gundham and Mechamaru having this secret battle to save the rest of the gang... feels good man. His final words before his execution about not giving up on life and to keep living are probably more inspirational than any other words in the series save Kaito.

Also, his character design is really good.

Next: It's Nagito.

RaidenZeroX posted...

I was so happy at the start of case 5, because I figured that Chiaki would never kill anyone and seemed too important to be a victim. I was so ignorant. My favorites almost always die!

take solace in the fact she was the murderer in the best case in the series

6. Chiaki Nanami
Appears in: Danganronpa 2
Ultimate Identity: Gamer
Endearing Character Trait: Narcolepsy

Chiaki is tailored to be a well-liked character, and it's almost manipulative in a way how she is "perfect" in so many ways. So part of me wants to resist this, but on the other hand - she's a good character.

Chiaki, in a way, is the first real "descendant" in the series, being a natural extension of Alter Ego. When thought of this way, as a kind of extension of Chihiro, her character becomes even more interesting. Here we have the sort of strong mindset that Chihiro was really striving for.

She has a lot of endearing character traits: falling asleep, her knowledge of games, her general attractiveness... I think. She asks a lot of questions. In this way, she doesn't take over cases as much as say Kyoko or Kaito. All of this compounds why DR2 chapter 5 is so tragic: she's the traitor, but in this case, her being a "traitor" is actually her being a protector. Like many of the best characters in DR2, you are surprised by how much you like them by the end.

People make parallels between Chiaki and Kaede in terms of them being exemplars of hope/goodness, and I think that's an apt comparison. I give Chiaki a slight edge in that she's around longer. Again, her only real drawback is that she's almost "too perfect" in a way that feels false.

Next: This too must be the will of causality...

guys, I was just making the obvious joke because I hate obvious bump posts.

I've actually been social this weekend so I haven't had time for this. I'll get back to this soon though.

Who's the hottest girl? Despite my low ranking of her, I think Celeste got pretty hot toward the end.

Bump. Busy day yesterday and today.

Gonta isn't mentally challenged, he's just really dumb about everything except bugs and being strong

Zyxyz0 posted...

colliding posted...

Still, the fact remains that you do play as Kaede and you never drop a shot put down the grate.

For what it's worth, there is a line of narration along the lines of "I dropped everything I was holding" at the point where she would've dropped the shot put ball. IIRC it mentions her cleaning the room beforehand, so that on a first playthrough you'd think she's talking about dropping the broom used for that, when in reality it's talking about the shot put there. (Kind of like how after being forced to examine them in the warehouse, there's a narration line about putting "what I was holding" in her backpack, which is only later revealed to be the shot put.)

Also - I don't buy this as being enough to suggest putting a shot put into a closed vent. I've seen other people bring this up as "evidence" and it's just not enough. Again, I don't feel like the writers cheated there, but there needed to be more in that particular instant to insinuate action on Kaede's part. Even a message like "Do I hear something from the vent? I should check it before I leave."

Nanis23 posted...

Kaede is the closest I have ever been to "fall in love with a fictional character" as much as pathetic it is

Too charming I guess

typical degenerate male

7. Kyoko Kirigiri
Appears in: Danganronpa
Ultimate Identity: Detective
Endearing Character Trait: Her totally messed up hands

Man oh man, if Kyoko doesn't seem overwhelmingly vanilla, particularly in the midst of all this kokichi talk. To be fair, the entire first DR is vanilla compared to V3. Still, Kyoko's story is relatively straightforward. Amnesiac in the first killing game, still remarkably competent, never really pushed outside her comfort zone - even when she finds her papa's bones wrapped up in a birthday present!

Being so even-keeled, it's hard to pick a best moment. I will say her chapter-ending whisper to Makoto about the Ultimate Depair and the 16th student is up there. You might say "well, it sucks that Kyoko had to basically do everything in the first game," but on the other, it's cool to have a character like Kyoko coaching you along. Knowing that the entire final case was meant to be Kyoko being framed for your murder by the mastermind, and Kyoko was just that good that Junko had to improvise. She's clearly good at what she does.

Many bonus points for her character design too.

Next: No more games.

love that you guys are having this kokichi/nagito debate, but couldn't you have waited say... three more rankings?

8. Kaede Akamatsu
Appears in: Danganronpa V3
Ultimate Identity: Pianist
Endearing Character Trait: Loves Rube Goldberg Machines

KAI-YAY-DAY, no!

First time playing DRV3, I wasn't super stoked about playing as a female protagonist, but at the very least I thought it was an interesting development. I was picturing the game setting up Kaede as an Ultimate Hope and gradually breaking her case by case in an almost fetishistic fashion. I'm glad that didn't happen because 1) that would have been too dark and 2) Kaede works better as this type of untouchable ideal that characters simply won't/can't live up to.

Her living would have been cool too, I guess. There are fan theories that say as much; since she technically didn't murder Rantaro (STILL, such a great revelation and an all-time great DR moment that gets **** on by the ending) and she "has a twin." Of course, to make this theory work you have to assume that Tsumugi and Team Danganronpa were playing by the rules so hard that they wouldn't have actually executed Kaede after framing her for the murder, which wouldn't make sense. You also have to ignore the fact that the twin thing is obviously BS. Anyway, I digress.

Is Kaede being the blackened in Chapter 1 cheating? I thought so, at first. After all, DR games have always been visual novels where the player assumes the role of the protagonist. V3 throws that out the window and instead places you in the role of "the audience" - evidenced by the multiple switches of perspective. Still, the fact remains that you do play as Kaede and you never drop a shot put down the grate. You do spend an obviously long time arranging the books on the shelf though. And from what I remember, the game does a good job of forcing you to examine the shot put in the warehouse. It probably should have forced you to examine the vent before you left, but I guess that would have been too obvious. In conclusion, the game isn't cheating, but it didn't do it perfectly either.

Kudos to Kaede for being the first protagonist to actually try to kill the mastermind when given the chance instead of lounging around waiting to die. Nice!

Next: A character from the first game. Gee, I wonder who it is.

Janus5k posted...

Mac Arrowny posted...

Sympathy for Kokichi always confuses me, considering that there's nothing that comes later to justify him murdering Gonta.

I mean, it's not much different from Kyoko throwing Makoto under the bus in the first game.

hmmm. well, I won't really touch this except to say I'm pretty sure Kyoko would've felt really bad if Makoto had actually died and despite Kokichi's "no killing policy" I don't think he actually cared about Gonta

9. Byakuya Togami
Appears in: Danganronpa
Ultimate Identity: Affluent Progeny
Endearing Character Trait: Has no problem remind you that he's better than you

You can easily make the argument that Byakuya is a jerk sociopath. He's in general a terrible human being... and that's exactly why he's this high on the list. I feel like people who don't like characters like Kokichi, Nagito and Byakuya have a completely different feeling toward this series than I do. Some people might be perfectly content getting to know these characters through their quirks and fetishes - I want characters who make the game interesting.

Byakuya is openly hostile to the ideas of teamwork and friendship from the beginning of the game. This is actually a perfectly natural response to being dropped in the middle of a killing game. As the game progresses, he barely becomes friendlier. The most you could say at the end is that he recognizes the importance of working together to eliminate the mastermind. This is a fine character arc, and his funding of the Future Foundation to in part restore his family name makes sense.

Byakuya's best (worst) moment is staging the body in Chapter 2. That takes 1) balls, and 2) a complete lack of human empathy. His second best moment is when he says he's "quit playing the game" and the music kicks in. Tied for his third best moment is every time he insults Toko.

I might have actually had Byakuya higher on this list if his character type wasn't re-used and improved upon in DR2 by someone who has yet to appear.

Next: It's kind of like if you played as Mia in Ace Attorney case 1-1.

10. Maki Harakawa
Appears in: Danganronpa V3
Ultimate Identity: Child caregiver / Assassin
Endearing Character Trait: Killer with a heart of gold

Top ten time. As much as I would love to go into more detail with these people, I just plain don't have the time. Let's just say that these are not necessarily my favorite characters from a pure likeability standpoint, but moreso from a development/purpose/execution perspective.

Maki is not a particularly original character. Let's face it: there's been a lot of female teen assassins coming out of Japan in recent years, and so the big reveal of her as a hired killer was not shocking. Perhaps even less shocking is her reasoning: to protect her friends in the orphanage, she sacrificed herself to become a professional blah blah blah.

So yeah, on one hand, we've heard it all before with Maki. But on another, there's just something about her that is remarkably likeable. A lot of it has to do, once again, with her dynamic with Kaito and Shuichi. For the first time in DR, you feel as though you have actual friendships and bonds to get you through the killing game.

Maki is written consistently throughout the game, and she rarely is annoying or overbearing. In many ways, she's like Kyoko, except less concerned with solving mysteries and more just... cool. And that's fine.

Btw, I'm really glad the game didn't try to force a love triangle thing with her, Shuichi, and Kaito. Not only would this have probably made me like Shuichi even less, it would ruin what is a perfectly good romance. There was a debate earlier about the best pairing in the series, and as much as I like Gundham, this is it.

Next: The only way to win is to quit playing.

Bump

bump

more later, but I'm gonna have a busy few days, so keep an eye on this topic please. thanks.

good at the beginning, weird when she came back

OK, never mind about powering through. I'm done with the list for tonight. But here, in honor of Ibuki, have a bonus list.

Top 10 Danganronpa Soundtrack Songs:
10. Climactic Reasoning (DR1 &2)
9. Rise and Shine, Ursine! (DR3)
8. Beautiful Ruin [Summer Salt Edition] (DR2)
7. Darkness Time (DR3)
6. Class Trial - Solar(DR)
5. Third Island Theme - (DR2)
4. Debate Scrum (DR3)
3. Ikoroshia (DR2)
2. Discussion - Heat Up (DR)
1. Class Trial - Future Part (DR2)

HM: New World Order, but only sometimes.

I'm not giving you the links. Look them up you bums!

Box of Tissues
48. Hiyoko Saionji
47. Leon Kuwata

Monkey Paw
46. Mahiru Koizumi
45. Celestia Ludeberg
44. Korekiyo Shinguji
43. Teruteru Hanamura
42. Ultimate Imposter
41. Sayaka Maizono

Secret Boots
40. Tsumugi Shirogane
39. Hifumi Yamada
38. Kiyotaka Ishimaru
37. Peko Pekoyama
36. Mondo Owata
35. Angie Yonaga
34. Akane Owari
33. Tenko Chabashira
32. Kazuichi Soda
31. Gonta Gokuhara

Rose in Vitro
30. Sakura Ogami
29. Kirumi Tojo
28. Nekomaru Nidai
27. Himiko Yumeno
26. Yasuhiro Hagakure
25. Sonia Nevermind
24. Mukuro Ikusaba
23. Ryoma Hoshi
22. Mikan Tsumiki
21. Chihiro Fujisaki

Eternal Friendship Bracelet
20. K1-B0
19. Aoi Asahina
18 Shuichi Saihara
17. Toko Fukawa
16. Ibuki Mioda
15. Miu Iruma
14. Makoto Naegi
13. Rantaro Amami
12. Kaito Momota
11. Junko Enoshima

New Tier Unlocked: Hope's Peak Class Ring

greengravy294 posted...

Is tenko on the list yet

See no. 33

11. Junko Enoshima
Appears in: All of them
Ultimate Identity: Despair/Fashionista
Enduring Character Trait: Evil Incarnate

Here she is. Junko goddamn Enoshima. The most evil fictional character of all time? Probably not, but she could probably be in the conversation.

As DR has grown in popularity, Junko has become a more and more iconic figure. Were we to ever have another character battle (ahem), I would wager that Junko would be the most likely DR representative due to her character design and overall importance to the series.

Because as much as this series is about puzzle solving, trials, and weird dating sim stuff, it's really about Junko. I mean, it's part of her character: she has so much "charisma" that she throws the whole world into despair! I mean, it's corny and I never really bought it, but that's the way that it is. (Apparently the anime goes into more detail about how she actually did it, but again, don't care).

She's also Monokuma, I guess, so his good moments are her good moments too. Though thinking about that too much doesn't really make much sense. Monokuma's wacky but Junko is more just plain erratic. Something doesn't line up there, but you just have to accept it.

I actually think Junko is pretty annoying. The multiple personality stuff was insufferable in DR1. You also know that whenever Junko shows up you're about to get an exposition/wrap-up dumpage of text.

Junko, to me, works better as an ideal than an actual character. Still, it's Junko, so she has to be pretty high up.

Next: Do you wanna die?

LapisLazuli posted...

Playing through as Amami in the board game was such a strange experience, because he's he's a pretty damn interesting character and he has more total lines there than the entirety of the game proper.

I really can't get into the board game. I usually like the post game stuff in DR, but I dunno, this just felt like a big ol waste of time. It reminds me of Birth By Sleep's terrible board game.

12. Kaito Momota
Appears in: Danganronpa V3
Ultimate Identity: Astronaut
Endearing Character Trait: Perpetually dying

Ladies and gentlemen, the luminary of the stars! King of death flags!

I've seen a lot of people not like Kaito because he's "too positive" or "annoying." Well, these people are wrong. Kaito is one of the series' biggest successes, in that he actively plays with the series expectations, subverting cliches and tropes while being the crux of the most emotional DR story. The writers throw death flags at you relentlessly, (not to mention murderer flags), and Kaito joyously shuts those down. Acting suspicious in Chapter 3? Oh, that's because I'm deathly afraid of the occult! Mysteriously vanishes in Chapter 4? Yeah, Miu did that. Kaito exists to play with expectations, and he does it well.

V3 has the best story of the series and it's not really close (again, this is knowing that the ending of V3 effectively undermines the story itself). One reason why the story is so good is because you actually have relationships that feel real. The "friend trio" of Shuichi, Maki, and Kaito is one of the most likable in any video game I've played - and yes, I'm aware that he's basically Kamina and they're Simon and Yoko. We've all seen TTGL and it's worthy of whatever homages it gets.

Kaito begins as a type of romantic rival with Shinji for Kaede's affections. When Kaede croaks, instead of becoming a villain - the expected route - he actually becomes a rival/brother figure for Shuichi. The friendship feels earned and real. And again, when his optimism brings Maki into the fold, it doesn't feel like he's being shifty or pervy - he's just a good dude. I'm not a "shipper," but I can appreciate when a game writes chemistry effectively.

Chapter 5 is pretty good, though I can't help but feel a tad disappointed by it too. Like, it's kind of obvious that Kaito is in the Exisal the whole time, right? It's fun figuring out how the body switch took place, but it also feels a bit unsurprising - more on this chapter when we get to Kokichi.

Kaito probably notches the biggest victory of the series too, when he dies before Monokuma's execution can actually kill him. It's one of the series' best moments: a perfect mix of tragic and triumphant.

I originally had Kaito much higher (hence all the writing), but the more I thought about him, the more I realized that - as awesome as he is - he is relatively "samey." And yeah - he is super positive in an annoying way sometimes. Still - gotta give him props.

Next: Puhuhu...

Thinking of just powering through and knocking out this list tonight. Maybe. We'll see.

13. Rantaro Amami
Appears in: Danganronpa V3
Ultimate Identity: Survivor
Endearing Character Trait: Competence

Even though I didn't really like the ending of V3, the idea of there being an "Ultimate Survivor" is a damn good one. Again, I have no problems with the characters having false identities and that they are part of a TV program. My main problems are with how everything is presented in an overbearingly "meta" way.

Rantaro was the most interesting character at the beginning of V3 so of course it makes sense that he gets killed right away. Still, the impression he made in such a short time was impressive. I kept thinking about who he was the rest of the game. One of my crazy theories involved him being Monodam, because they're both green. Yeah, that's the only evidence I had but I WAS SURE I WAS RIGHT.

They really should have given us a "4-0" like flashback to Danganronpa V2 though. Real missed opportunity there.

Next: Later, Buddy

14. Makoto Naegi
Appears in: Danganronpa
Ultimate Identity: Lucky Student/ Hope
Endearing Character Trait: Unflaggingly "main-character-like"

Yay! Makoto's here! Now you guys can stop giving me a hard time about how boring he is.

Makoto actually isn't completely boring, though. Unlike Shuichi, you learn a bit about his backstory, including the fact that he's just an ordinary, regular boy with a younger sister who loves him (Japan...). Despite this relatively bland existence, Makoto makes it into Hopes Peak and ends up being the key figure of the first killing game. Unlike Shuichi, who I feel relies upon Kaito and Maki quite a bit, Makoto is more of his own person - though Kyoko and Byakuya both upstage him at particular points.

Plus, main characters deserve a bit of "list armor." You're around them a lot, they're meant to be a bit open for interpretation, and they're meant to be relatively even-keeled. It's Makoto who's progressing the story along. Without Makoto, none of the other characters are the way they are, because you're seeing them through the protagonists perspective. As a protagonist, as long as you don't actively piss off the player, you deserve a bit of leeway for being a little boring.

Makoto goes on to lead the Future Foundation, I guess. I'm not a huge fan of that particular development, but whatever.

Next: I'm going to put an end to this list *KLONK* (massive bleeding from the head region)

yeah, I thought her FTE was good - I also think it doesn't make sense though

First one: actively bad.

Second one: so bad it's unwatchable

So... I guess you guys were all tied up on the Miu/Ibuki vote, so I'll just go with my gut and ruin LtM's day.

16. Ibuki Mioda
Appears in: Danganronpa 2
Ultimate Identity: Musician
Endearing Character Trait: Pointing!

Ibuki is a personal favorite of mine based on personality alone. She's super funny and expressive. I legitimately think "From Me to You" is a good song. The developers really use her design and sprites to full effect.

Unexpectedly, we learn a lot about Ibuki in the story. It's not particularly important information mind you, but we know that she's in a pop band, she has a rivalry with another band, she's pretty optimistic and upbeat. All around, she's not necessarily an important part of the Dangan mythos, but it doesn't really matter.

Ibuki's death, even though we all hate it, is kind of cool. The video mystery is pretty interesting and was kind of tricky to figure it out. She doesn't have a lot of screentime, but I definitely understand why she's so popular.

15. Miu Iruma
Appears in: Danganronpa V3
Ultimate Identity: Inventor
Endearing Character Trait: Fan service queen

God, where to start with Miu? "Tsundere" doesn't quite cut it. One minute she's sexual, the next she's embarrassed. She'll be arousing, and then she'll start talking about her dumps. Just when you think there's nothing to her, she'll actually have an intelligent idea. It's hard to keep up with, honestly.

The thing about Miu is that no matter what side of her you're seeing, she remains appealing. Most characters in DR have a few endearing aspects to them, but even when Miu is being absolutely disgusting, she's still funny. You get the feeling that her sexuality is a bit of a performance that masks some real insecurities. This saves her from just being a thrown-in character for T&A.

Like I said, she's actually smart. She fixes the cameras, creates the top-down drone thing, basically hacks into the virtual world and somehow creates a really good plan to murder Kokichi. I still dont' quite get how her plan didn't work / how Kokichi figured it out. Maybe she was too suspicious leading up to it? Her death is actually... disappointing in a way? I'm not a sadist or anything, but the virtual world kind angle kind of reduced the shock of that murder.

Her voice acting is probably the best in V3. I can only imagine the face this person made reading some of these lines. I never thought I'd hear someone called a *** dumpster in a non-porn video game before, much less hear someone enjoyed to be called that.

Next: "Fist of Justice"

seriously you all need to vote

17. Toko Fukawa / Genocide Jack/Jill
Appears in: Danganronpa, UDG
Ultimate Identity: Writer / Serial Killer
Endearing Character Trait: "Schizophrenia"

Look, I like Erin Fitzgerald as a voice actor as much as anybody. I'll admit that she does great work here. But like many of her characters, Toko gets annoying. Which is part of the point, I suppose, but still.

There's really no point separating Toko and GJ. Without GJ, Toko would be a nothing character. Without Toko, GJ would be boring as well. The whole likability of this character depends on the "schizophrenia" angle, which, as the quotes signify, I find to be problematic. I know schizophrenia is a trope that's been done to death, and that DR makes its money by embracing the mystery novel tropes of yesteryear, but... schizophrenia isn't like this. Neither is multiple personality disorder (which aren't the same). I hate to nitpick, but that cliche has always bothered me.

I also would've liked GJ to be more unhinged/violent than she actually is. It seems like they're going for some weird anti-hero angle with her and I'm not really buying it.

That being said, Toko has some good moments. While some of her Byakuya fixations are... disturbing... others are kind of funny. GJ is actually really fun to have during trials. She's just a really out of nowhere, bizarre character, and again, that mixture of macabre and wacky is what DR is all about.

Next: It's voting time! Who's better: Ibuki or Miu? You have 24 hours. Will you make the right choice or the dreadfully wrong one?