Lurker > Lopen

Far as being a nut job goes conspiracy theorists are mostly harmless. Can't speak for Dante's VA in particular don't really care to dig into him but.

Figures the guy who thought I was randomly talking about wheat wouldn't understand context and why "any" has considerably different implications when used in this discussion

normalize being wrong and changing your tune

Starting to actually lose matches at Marvel Snap somewhat regularly in the 30s. Still progressing but it's slower because people have something resembling knowledge of the game here.

Looks like the Sinister terrain stopped spamming. Was it because it naturally stopped or was it because they realized that combo was dumb and are going to retool some pieces and just stopped the terrain from appearing till then. I started using Scarlet Witch and a bunch of stuff that screws with the opponent's deck to prevent that (Mantis, Yondu, Elektra) but now I kinda like it so I may just run with it even though I'm not countering a deck specifically.

I dunno if we should make a topic for it instead of cluttering in here. I feel like I'm a bad person to make since I've only played the game like 3 days.

Supernatural

Pikmin
Halo

Pac-Devil

Samurai
Teen
DBZ
-

Bedazzled

That snap game is pretty fun. I'm rank 13 only lost one so far (ran away when enemy Hulk randomly got dropped on a location that deployed a random unit to it). Love snapping back when the opponent snaps and winning. Very satisfying.

All this topics fault.

Pac-Devil

South
Bebop
Batman
TMNT

I like playing word searches on longer lms posts. Woke is my favorite one it always makes me excited when that one pops up.

Bedazzled

Pac-Devil

normalize being wrong and changing your tune

Complain about topic not being about the game, start topic by making two posts not about the game.

I am appreciating Halo 2 vs Super Mario Sunshine. Nice throwback.

foolm0r0n posted...

Definitely mine since you've been a very consistent messenger of cynicism not meaning you're smart

I would have guessed yours because self awareness hurts the impact but what do I know.

I mean there are probably like 10+ games I'd say define the PS2 before GoW but it should still be in there

I would have nommed God of War if I remembered it existed ha ha

Some reason I was thinking it started in the PS3 Era.

Flanders

Anyway while I agree that you shouldn't just believe the big company by default there was a lot of evidence that Hellena was the one in the wrong here before it became dead obvious

1. Jennifer Hale, who is presumably more pricey than Hellena Taylor, is the replacement.
2. Hellena Taylor rips into Jennifer Hale and says she has no right to call herself the Voice of Bayonetta.
3. Non-standard talk of residuals are mentioned in the negotiations.
4. Inflated sense of the value of the Bayonetta franchise given by Hellena Taylor.

It's one thing to just favor the business, it's another to blindly ignore everything we know about the situation at hand because the business is always bad and the individual is always good. Why not save that rhetoric for companies that have earned it and give both sides the benefit of a doubt until we know better otherwise. Platinum doesn't deserve to be lumped in with Blizzard and its ilk just because.

Lopen posted...

cynicism isn't always the way to be smarter about a topic

foolm0r0n posted...

normalize being wrong and changing your tune

which of these is the more ridiculous messenger to deliver a lesson to be learned

Diablo

It's fine to guess what happened, just be humble about it acknowledging you are speculating, and don't jump to attacking people who disagree with you.

It's not hard.

Only painful snubs I'm seeing based on 2+ noms are

Ninja Gaiden Black
Disgaea
Guilty Gear XX
Warcraft 3
WWE Smackdown Shut Your Mouth

So could have been worse. Feel bad for not nomming Disgaea. Other 4 I did and they didn't make it with my nom so oh well.

So a character like Mario I could absolutely see having a better case for residuals. It wouldn't be some sort of percentage of sales, just some sort of flat fee per use.

Like I doubt they're calling in Martinet for every release to re-record every "woo!" "ha!" "wee hee!" "let's a go!" and so he's theoretically not getting paid for contributing when he should. (But if they are paying him to re-record, then no, doesn't matter, should be covered by the pay they give him.)

It's very different than a heavy dialogue voice character like Bayonetta where they can't just reuse her snippets for stuff. Like if they used her voice in Smash without re-recording anything though, yeah, she'd deserve something for that.

So to be clear I'm not necessarily completely against residuals for VA, just against the idea that not getting them is some sort of heinous unfairness in the industry.

I think the problem with them getting them is you open the flood gates to a ton of other people wanting them-- people arguably more deserving than the VA itself, and that just makes something complicated when it doesn't necessarily need to be.

With actors it makes more sense due to being a combination of the fact that you're using their likeness directly, and that you're giving them the residuals generally based on TV Ads and TV broadcasts which get paid more directly from the broadcaster or advertiser.

I do not believe for example it's typical that Brad Pitt would get a percentage of the box office or dvd sales for Bullet Train. He would however get residuals for Bullet Train (or any random ad he's in) being shown on the USA network, because USA network would pay the film studio some small amount of money to be able to show the film. Some particularly big name actors like Scarlet Johanson do get residuals from box office, but I do not believe it is standard practice from what I've been told from the few people I know who work in the industry. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As video games don't use this avenue for profit it makes a lot less sense for them to apply it wholesale. I would say that perhaps maybe Bayonetta's VA deserves some residual if say the monthly XBL type services pay any portion to the titles included in the game pass which they probably, but so do a ton of other people.

On that note

With 2 town mislynches to draw from and 2 night killed town it actually isn't that hard to be close to right the scumteam. You ask literally anyone in the game n2 and I would be surprised if they got less than 2 scum. Most probably get 3 or more.

Actual good mafia play, not just consolation prize good mafia play, is not starting the game with 2 town mislynches so you actually have some breathing room to be wrong once later.

Lopen posted...

I, based on nothing but speculation on the info surrounding this, would guess that she wasn't given an absurd lowball but rather came in with the agenda to want residuals and that just wasn't going to happen.

Realistically, I don't necessarily agree voice actors deserve residuals. Actors get them because it's literally their likeness being used.

Why is the voice of Bayonetta deserving residuals more than the artist who designed her, the programmer that modeled her movements, etc etc. It's just not the exact same kind of work as acting despite being similar in regards, and I don't feel the standard should be residuals just competitive pay.

My take, before I got drawn into a discussion on voice AI, was probably the right one tbh.

Could absolutely see this incident coming from Hellena Taylor thinking she deserves residuals due to some smart actor friend telling her she should get them, not getting them as something being not negotiable, and her flipping out over it.

I basically always try to lynch Poppy Day 3 if he doesn't flip poisoned. I also never lynch hb ever if Sultan isn't day cop.

You can believe me or not due to not immediately discarding Poppy when he questioned why hb is alive unblocked with scan, but Poppy and Kirby are always on my radar after day 2. I also no longer white knight Ben as hard because his motivations become a lot less townish if he's participating in a town/town wagon. I played super chill day 3 on trying to build cases on more people because I knew the chances of me being night killed night 3 was 0.

I think if I have total control of every lynch after day 3 it probably goes Poppy/Kirby -> Kirby/Poppy -> Ben -> Sultan/Chang. Roughly the same path this game took just different first stop. But Ben also plays very differently if not scanned so I can't be sure of that-- just know that in town/town day 1 Ben is not townish to me if he's going hard on SBell being town and the alternative is town. I will also say I probably lynch Kirby not hb if I have total control of the lynch day 2, just because while I do think a lot of pressure on the cop claiming stupidly is healthy, in terms of risk/reward the play isn't there and you can let it play out a bit first.

Like it's easy to say that we have no chance without cop but I think why hb was able to hit two scum in a row was precisely BECAUSE we had a chance without cop, not because he was going super intuition "where did that come from" scanning. That's not to belittle what hb did-- not at all, it's just to put to rest the idea that town was a bunch of clueless idiots without cop scans.

Oh oops. Didn't notice that (nor realize DMC1 was locked in)

Don't care enough about Chain of Memories to go over the rest of my noms. Alas.

Darn beaten to the low hanging fruit

Jakyl25 posted...

Mario doesnt talk?

Only since Chris Pratt graced us with a voice for him.

Remove DMC1
Add KH Chain of Memories

I actually agree with you at some level

I think where you and others underestimate me is that that conspiracy theory can shift around and that actually does make me a bit more flexible than you think. I'm always re-evaluating the pieces in my theories and eventually they make enough sense that it ends up being right.

For instance in this game I found Poppy and Kirby protecting BCT which means Poppy and Kirby and BCT fit into place as a scum team doing a lot of theatre day 1.

But then I re-evaluated and saw a scenario where just Poppy and Kirby were doing theatre to pocket BCT as being likely (which was correct-- despite playing around with the same pieces in the theory)

I also think you misread my outward conviction in a lynch as my actual scum read 100% when a lot of time I'm doing it because pressure creates content.

For as much as you guys say "oh Han did so well" I would argue Ulti's theory on what Han does is part of why all our lynch trains went with hardly any votes until 2 hours before before deadline speaks to that criticism potentially being at least somewhat correct.

Like if you or Chris are town and helping harness me we create a lot of chaos and can generally shake out scum. It has happened many times before. Han in my games being town with him actively works against trying to do that unless it makes his theory on the game fit-- which creates situations where a good lynch isn't solved until just before deadline because he's too afraid of being wrong on a scum unless there is a player who can generate that pressure for him (and isn't actively fighting against him). The easy solution is to just blame me for rattling him but I don't think that's truly evaluating what's happening correctly-- it's probably no coincidence that the only games I remember Han actually carrying for town are ones where he had power roles and that as vanilla I tend to remember him being right about a lot but the game being lost anyway.

Oh World of Warcraft good call on historical. That definitely should replace either CT or Skyrim on mine.

Helluva
X-Men
-
Rangers

Personal with a mix of gens and franchises to make it seem like a mix of influence/diversity
Final Fantasy X
Suikoden 2
Lufia 2
Tales of Symphonia

Same as above but with an attempt to be unbiased
Final Fantasy VII
Chrono Trigger
Pokemon RBY
Skyrim

If you want my opinion of what my biggest weakness as a player is it's being unable to distinguish bad play from scum play.

Unfortunately despite knowing that's a huge hole in my game I don't really know how to correct it. Like I'm slowly working at it trying to digest MOTIVATIONS but still easier said than done.

People say I overly tunnel into players based on sketchy logic holes and ignoring people who point out those holes

I think if you say I do that you are looking at the game with confirmation bias lens and ignoring the times I jump around. It IS a weakness of mine but it's overblown too.

I will also note it's a content generating tactic. You all can and probably did claim I played poorly by tunneling BCT second from last day but I feel like it basically scum confirmed Kirby doing that and while you won't believe me when I claim I wasn't going to mortally lock on BCT if he didn't try harder, or that I would have just autopiloted Kirby->Sultan and lost us the game if my trick didn't work, but in Lylo you have to be absolutely sure so you can't be any more sure that that plays out Kirby -> Sultan than you can be sure Han successfully continues to correctly identify the scum team through 4 more lynches.

Corrik7 posted...

You also didn't have anyone who could vouch anything for your "reads" that you assured us you got after the game when all alignments were revealed. So... hmmm

I mean sometimes I had PMs with the host. But I never actually argued that because whether you believe me or not is a bunch of who cares. I don't actually need anyone's validation-- the more people think I'm bad at mafia the longer I live and the more games I win so I'm okay with the circle jerk early dead crew spreading the rhetoric that I'm terrible at the game.

That I accept

Thing is I pretty much did it as uninformed observer so I didn't have alignment cheat sheets in front of me.

Doing it in dead chat is much much worse tbh.

(Han always calling me out for doing that is probably the other thing that triggered this rant because he is being an observer hero but also saying town
didn't deserve to win and being bitter about town winning which I never did)

Corrik7 posted...

I remember when I always criticized Lopen for being a Dead Town Chat hero and acting like he was better than everyone. How the tables have turned.

This is fake. I haven't played much since Discord became a thing. Mostly been scum too.

Bayonetta is obvscum

(And for the record Han is NOT the main person I'm thinking who does this-- Crescent is the absolute worst about this and probably what triggered this rant more than Han-- but that doesnt mean he doesnt have games like this one where he somehow thinks he played well despite achieving nothing to further town's goals while alive)

ctesjbuvf posted...

Han might have mislynched me but he also basically knew what the scum team was if I flipped town which was part of the reason I was lynched which is also why he was killed with a cop claim. To say he had a bad game is just bs.

Again

Identifying the scum team does not matter if you do it only in dead town chat and do not actively push that team when you're alive.

If left alive perhaps he stays on that team. Perhaps he chokes away identifying Kirby when he's scanned town by cop or Chang when he plays better. It's also possible he has the scum successfully navigate town into other lynches because Han continues to play passively and gets just enough doubt to lynch town one more time. It is meaningless speculation because we can only judge a player's game by what they achieve or attempt to achieve when they're alive.

No one should ever say that they had a good game if their actions in game were to push 2 straight town lynches (first being the doctor-- always smarter to jump onto a claimed vanilla unless you're damn sure the vanilla is town or the unclaimed is scum) and put the game into lylo state. That's just delusion. Mentioning maybe lynching Chang as "spice" means jack because he made no attempt to actually go for it.

And it's not just a Han thing. It's a b8 in general thing. That's why people who get killed early regularly unequivocally think they're better at the game than they are (it's a nasty cycle because you tend to get killed early more reliably the better you are at the game so you get this feedback loop with a bunch of delusional players who are above average at the game circle jerking about how bad the town is early), and why dead town chat is generally really annoying to read as either alignment.

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