Lurker > HeroDelTiempo17

Mr Lasastryke posted...

even with this information i still agree with DYL. if being able to drive is so important in the US and you know how harsh the punishment is if you get caught after drinking and driving, maybe don't drink and drive?

i seriously don't get why people apparently want to drink and drive so badly to the point that this is a huge issue. i drink a lot (i'm a borderline alcoholic) and i've never once driven a car after having had one drip of alcohol. driving in general is dangerous enough. drinking and driving is dangerous as fuck and you should never do it. like, this is extremely easy to understand.

I mean I'm very pro prison reform and criminal rehabilitation so the idea of a permanent punishment sucks to me anyways.

Maybe help this person with using alcohol responsibly instead of restricting their mobility until they die

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

Umbreon posted...

If you can't drive responsibility, don't drive.

I think you underestimate how car-centric American society is if this is your stance.

Everything is so inconvenient and clunky if you can't drive. You'd basically have to restructure all of American cities into ultradense ones like in other countries for this to be a fair punishment.

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

red sox 777 posted...

As for morals, if you're going to say that you believe in X because you say so, there's not much to discuss.

damn all of philosophy btfo

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

So yes, it just supports the idea that Abby is psychopath that is impossible to enjoy playing as but here we are.

I know you don't agree, but I'm just going to point out this is what the ending sequence to the first game feels like if you don't support Joel. <_<

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

At any rate this certainly does put the reviews in context. A common theme among positive AND negative reviews is that they found the game exhausting because they already agreed with its premise going in. Meanwhile it's obvious now that not everyone agreed with it in the first place and aren't convinced by it. So the few unconditionally positive reviews I guess are the very few Team Joel fans and fence-sitters the game actually managed to convert.

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Like, Joel is saving Ellie from some people who don't give a shit and will do whatever they can for another likely failed crack at a cure. That's the sticking point here.

Bruh and Joel also does not give a shit about how successful the cure could be. That's the point! They are all bad people!

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

So let me ask this then. This isn't a gotcha, but more just to see what you think. If the game stopped and let you decide between:

Joel going on a murder spree to save Ellie's life after they took her without consent to crack her head open for a cure, in which they've stated they've had zero success with despite trying countless times to use immune people for the cure

or

Joel letting Ellie die for a very slim chance of a cure being made, without Ellie's consent

What do you choose?

Probably option B but that's missing the point because both are bad choices. It's not that Joel's choice isn't understandable or that the doctors aren't also in the wrong, it's that Ellie should be the one choosing and Joel is MORE in the wrong. The game makes the case that Ellie most likely would have chosen to try to find the cure had she known, but Joel is making his choice because he personally does not want to give up Ellie. That's what makes him selfish and the villain in that situation.

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

Leonhart4 posted...

Oh, I think Joel was wrong in the ending, and it's part of the reason I don't like the ending, but I get why he did it. Regardless, he's more of a tragic hero than a villain.

He's an antihero for sure, but there's nothing heroic about that ending! He's acting selfishly there. In that context specifically he is the villain.

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

He tried to do a lot of the right things, and he had a lot of humanity to him.

I agree with this, which is why Joel is a good character, but man as for the rest I have almost the complete opposite interpretation of that ending

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

Wait is this really all this is about?

Based on the first game I adore Joel as a character but he is absolutely a reprehensible person and saying he's a villain is pretty accurate.

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

r u 4 real?

Uh yes the entire game is building up the Joel/Ellie relationship so it can deliver a devastating downer ending

And there is a whole-ass tragic lesbians DLC where you go on whimsical adventures in a shopping mall, only for it to have a downer ending

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Tonally, everything with Ellie is like... just the most bizarre thing for the first 2 hours of the game. It's just goofy and I think they're trying to go 'haha here's some lighthearted adventures with Ellie being a teenager let's laugh and love!'

And then at 2 hours in it's just like the most grim dark nihilistic shit.

This is exactly what the first game does!

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

I do love that ad's strategy just because if it doesn't help Biden it might at least make Graham more unpopular with Trump supporters in SC!

---

I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig!

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Neil Druckmann is going out of his way to defend a guy who was called out for comparing his shitty game to Shindler's List.

Holy shit this guy.

https://twitter.com/Neil_Druckmann/status/1271542997235068928?s=19

wow what a crazy person

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

KamikazePotato posted...

It bugs me that we'll never know what people would have thought of this game in a normal setting. It's been a while since pre-release information/expectations have warped perception of a game this much. Like people in this topic are already drawing lines in the sand and the game isn't even out yet!

Yeah, same here. I already had a big thing spoiled that deflated my hype. I'm curious, but due to the backlash all the hype is gone.

Stuff like ND saying "oh the fans of the first game won't like this one" just makes me think about what fans WERE expecting? I mean, I loved the first game but TLOU is about terrible things being done to and by its characters. A sequel can only have even more terrible things happen, and I would never go into TLOU2 expecting a happy ending. And if the story itself is bad that's another issue.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Xiahou Shake posted...

I would say yes by definition. Player interaction is as essential to video games (and more critically, games in general) as moving pictures are to movies and sound is to music. If you make a video game with no player interaction, you've merely made a video.

But you've been talking about agency, not interaction.

Interaction is simple participation in the story (killing a dog). Agency is actual choice over the narrative (choosing whether or not to kill the dog).

It's fine to make a depressing interactive story that's made more emotional because you have to be an active participant in the misery. But that's different from being berated for making the wrong choice. Plenty of games with good stories have interaction but no agency, or even segment the interaction away from the story elements.

And maybe Naughty Dog makes this mistake too! I dunno!

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I think there's something to be said about stories about how people are addicted to stories about suffering but it's not unique to video games. It hits harder because you're forced to be a participant by interaction but other media do that all the time. It isn't really about player agency over the narrative itself although game writers seem to try to make it that way sometimes.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Xiahou Shake posted...

I'm seeing so many people bring up the point of the game trying to make you feel awful about stuff you're straight up forced to do with no direct control over the character and all I can think is where were these people when it was time to stan Spec Ops

We need more Undertales where you're a bad person for even wanting to find out what happens if you do the bad thing without even doing it yourself!

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

So i don't care if you can make a sandwhich without jelly, we definitely have the jelly or it wouldn't be called a PBJ. And the quality of jelly is much more relevant to the sandwich experience.

Well then you're opening up a can of worms here.

I would argue that the most important distinction on the PB&J, even IF the J is required, is smooth vs crunchy PB. But that's a whole nother debate.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

people in Europe do play MTG, as it turns out

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

The storynof Death Stranding is not fun garbage.

Some of it sure, but a lot of that ending nightmare was making me visibly angry. My roomate asked me if I was gonna be alright, lol.

The ending being a nightmare is part of the spectacle! It opened my eyes to what it was actually possible to put in a AAA title when you give Kojima complete control over it. What a spectacle.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Lightning Strikes posted...

Death Stranding has fun gameplay though, and the story is hot garbage.

Ah, but it's fun garbage!

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

The thing about Crusade/Jihad/Cleanse isn't JUST about buffing or destroying certain colors of creature, but that they're also alluding to real-world events of ethnic cleansing. Cleanse itself is a bit of a reach but the other two are obvious. That's a bad look in combination.

Like if Crusade ONLY had the art with Elspeth fighting Phyrexians, I think it's fine. And all of the other generic fantasy crusaders are going to be fine, as are other effects buffing white creatures like Honor of the Pure. But the original art on Crusade is pretty obviously depicting the Christian Crusades triumphantly.

Also for Imprison, the art seems to be referencing a common method of torture used on people during slavery. Look up iron bits.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

This engagement vs fun debate is just giving me flashbacks to the Death Stranding discourse. Because wew boy is that the poster child for that dichotomy. And a lot of people do love that game, and a lot of people hate it.

I would err saying that video games don't have to have fun or even GOOD gameplay but the element of interaction is what you are looking for in the medium. And I cant speak for others but sometimes just being able to move around in the world does the trick for me.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I was honestly expecting more of a horror thing from Ghostwire so I was honestly underwhelmed...but it's Mikami so we'll see

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Po boy on demand sounds amazing

Gyro is close second

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

The new ending route has some...additional context for the plot that people don't like, though.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

mod to replace all of chie's voiced dialogue with "Aha. Is this our chance?"

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

LordoftheMorons posted...

If only there was someone whose job might legitimately include arresting somebody posing a threat to others...!

It's too bad those guys intentionally abandoned the area in hopes of causing a shitshow. Maybe we should find someone else to do that job.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Kinglicious posted...

Gotta get back to this one.
Did get accused of it. Don't know about stepping down or not but she seems still in control.

What she did do though was say she was gonna go kill herself because that way nobody else has to suffer. So this a suicidal abusive leader who started this idea. And that's all verifiable.

So I see all of this but where are you getting this info that this 18 year old is the "leader" of the decentralized movement? I mostly see tons of independent accounts and websites popping up to represent the zone and no one person. And speaking of which I think them being out of food must be bullshit even if the screencap is real because it was made at 1 AM and there are many posts about organizations showing up this morning and handing out food peacefully. There also appear to be local businesses within the zone that were helping out yesterday.

The Raz Simone stuff seems legit though because I see people on both sides complaining endlessly about him. I guess he started shit last night and the people on the ground want him gone and can't get rid of him.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Leafeon13N posted...

Police are not the only taxpayer funded union job. I am not about to support anything that prevents a set of employees from unionization.

We can talk reformation, restructuring, but the moment you decide to prevent a set of employees from unionizing you have lost me.

Even if we agree that police should have a union, you still have to vastly reduce the power of the police union for any reform to work. As PB says you have to get rid of the police unions' ability to prevent accountability, which as an example means giving whatever oversight you advocate for the power to go over the top of the union and fire problem officers.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Corrik7 posted...

Crime is disproportionately caused by the poor. The poorer the neighborhood you are in, the more crime around it there will be. This is pretty much true everywhere. Minorities that have more interaction with the police are minorities that are in particular poorer subsets of the society.

The answer isn't defunding police. The answer is fixing economic disparity. And, when Whites can't understand white privilege, it is because they are usually whites from the same boat in poor households. They struggled their whole life too, were brought up in the same conditions, and etc.

Corrik, people want to fix economic disparity by taking money from the police and using it to invest in those impoverished communities.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

It's fucking easy. Force a reallocation of funds. Get rid of the police union and replace it with their ideas for an oversight committee that does not work for the police in any way at all. This can't be a fair system until the union is out of there, or else they'll just keep fighting and find reasons to ensure these people keep their jobs or lessen these infractions or do shit like make them take a class they'll blow off and toss them back on the force until the next time they screw up.

Yeah if politicians don't want to use the "defund the police" slogan they could easily go with the "reallocate funds" terminology that is identical from a practical standpoint, but they can't even do that.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

And I'm disappointed he did after he initially was about giving officers more accountability. And I don't disagree with cops needing more mental health options among other things, but giving them more money to fuck about with is asinine, especially since you know it will be used in any way to skirt the system.

Well, Bernie is also very much for accountability stuff like suspending qualified immunity and having individual officers be liable instead of the city. He just also loves cops and wants to pay them more.

It's actually pretty frustrating because both Bernie and Biden agree with some of the major Defund ideas like reducing scope of police, making social workers more involved, investing heavily in community rehabilitation and housing as crime prevention to reduce the need for policing...but they want to do this while giving the police MORE money.

I mean come on. Without defunding the police, how are they going to pay for it???

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

It is pretty weird that the only places talking about Free Capitol Hill are a few local sites, twitter leftists/anarchists and isolated conservative pundits blaming it on Antifa.

It's been a whole-ass day and the major media outlets seem to have no idea what to make of the weirdest thing to come out of the protests.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

TheRock1525 posted...

So I switched from Lancer to Gladiator with the intention of being a Paladin.

How are they for solo play?

Everything is fine for solo play, all of the single-player content is designed to be doable with every job. But Paladin is a tank so you're going to have to be comfortable with tanking in multiplayer dungeons and trials.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

red sox 777 posted...

You know which candidate has run for office on a platform of lock them up and throw away the key?

If I recall correctly, that was a Trump slogan in reference to his opponent

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Corrik7 posted...

Decriminalize drugs. Lmfao. Jesus.

So you don't like weed but prostitution is okay huh

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Kinglicious posted...

sure.
in the same way we need looser gun restrictions~

I'm in favor of allowing people to buy basic guns for self-defense so you've got yourself a deal!

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Kinglicious posted...

first number to note, there's 38-39,000 cops. that's a lot of money in salaries alone.

Sounds like we need less cops then.

Here's an idea, what if you decriminalize some popular things like drugs and prostitution and all those bullshit tickets that everyone hates and we all know they just use to fill quotas and make money for the department and their salaries? That means you don't need to pay cops to do those jobs anymore and as an upside the remaining ones can focus on more serious issues.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Do I think we should not have police departments in America? No, I dont. Theres no city in the world that does not have police departments. What you need areI didnt call for more money for police departments. I called for police departments that have well-educated, well-trained, well-paid professionals. And, too often around this country right now, you have police officers who take the job at very low payment, dont have much education, dont have much trainingand I want to change that. I also called for the transformation of police departments intounderstanding that many police departments and cops deal every day with issues of mental illness, deal with issues of addiction, and all kinds of issues which should be dealt with by mental-health professionals or others, and not just by police officers.

Hey Bernie, what you're describing here is explicitly not police, who shouldn't have a say in these things at all

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Oh yeah as Inviso points out, vaguely defined yet strong support for capitalism as a system is a key aspect of US culture and is inherently conservative

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Inviso posted...

I mean, I think the country has become more tolerant and AWARE of social issues, like racism/sexism/homophobia, but we ultimately don't care unless it affects us directly, because, as another conservative trait, we're very individualist instead of collectivist.

Yeah and in particular I'm thinking on how people SAY they're for supporting progressive causes and then turn into NIMBYs when they can see it happen near them.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

but cultural things that dont require voting are largely not-Conservative and often anti-conservative (and I have no problem with it).

I guess I'd need examples but for social issues my thought is that the median American is liberal but not particularly progressive. I'm thinking big suburb energy here.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

What aspects of Conservatism exist in our culture?

Except for the respect for religion, I literally cannot think of anything socially or culturally conservative that is considered ideal or even acceptable?

Low taxes, small government. People generally support the country's police and military. Outlook towards crime in general is largely punitive. The fact that control of government moves back and forth in interim elections shows that people generally favor moderation.

Tons of conservatism here.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Reg posted...

But not police unions which are the bulk of the resistance

Sure but cities don't try to fight unions very hard and you have to ask why that is. And the answer is that at a broad level, Democrats support the police more than forcibly reforming them. There's not been a loud outcry about that until recently.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I dont do maps but I assume the enforcement for randos is that they cycle through turns for the map and if you steal loot you get kicked from the party and blacklisted and don't get to do your maps anymore

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Inviso posted...

The only reason corporate Democrats are allowed to hold sway is because the Republican party exists and continually captures half the electorate, thus making their views seem more viable than progressive policies that haven't really found success yet outside of AOC unseating a Democratic incumbent.

Democrats control cities and therefore police at a local level. And there is currently a ton of resistance to sweeping reforms at the local level. This actually is bigger than party lines.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Jakyl25 posted...

Can anyone actually imagine Trump participating in Bidens inauguration

Theres no way

He won't, but the entire inauguration is a symbolic gesture aside from the Oath so it still comes down to if Trump has government support to start a coup or not

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Peace___Frog posted...

It's a wonder to me that we're not having a larger conversation about ensuring election validity for this fall. The chances of him nicely giving up power when he loses are rather low, wouldn't you say?

I don't know what happens if Trump loses the election and both he and Biden claim legitimacy, but there's really nothing to be done in that case except support the election winner and it's up to the government to sort it out.

At this point I think it's more likely Trump rigs or cancels the election so his authority is never challenged, or maybe he does step down and does the "President in Exile" routine.

---

DPOblivion was far more determined than me.