Lurker > Lopen

I mean I literally don't remember what Vayne does. It's a bit further than underuse for me. I can't even say I dislike him.

At least Dr Cid, while also underused, has most of his screentime in about the same spot in the game so he can leave an impression.

I don't think FFXII's cast is generic as much as underused. Calling Ashe "generic rebellious princess" I don't really think does her justice. I think "generic rebellious princess" is more like Garnet. Ashe still carries herself like a Princess and is still into the politics sorta so I would say that alone makes her not generic.

Though I will say Balthier in any other FF game probably isn't nearly as popular.
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I fail to see what Genesis and Vayne have in common other than you liking em! Genesis is very prevalent in Crisis Core!
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I remember the part of the game Dr Cid is in at least. The one shining part of FFXII's plot

Vayne I'm not sure actually is in the game I'm pretty sure he just orchestrates more important things than what the gane is doing and randomly shows up as the final boss like Zeromus but not a flying fluffy evil ball
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Gaffgarion
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Leblanc
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X-Death
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Chiefs
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Made (up) his day
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Minwu
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Leblanc
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X-Death
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I'm not usually with the PC crew on stuff but this is kind of an unfunny joke at best and trying to antagonize at worst
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bwburke94 posted...

Can we stop the arguments and admit that joke lawyering attempts are just that, jokes?

If we're arguing whether that joke lawyering attempt was a lawyering attempt or that joke lawyering attempt was a joke I'm going to be able to make a stronger argument it was the former with the lack of evidence presented towards it being the latter
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Minwu
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Leblanc
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X-Death
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Did not get to vote but would have voted Dante Alucard and Scorpion, two of which got in and one of which was a lost cause so okay
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Shang Tsung
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Minwu
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Leblanc
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X-Death
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Nah. Probably never will. Don't see saddling myself with enough of the hallmark things I associate with adulthood to ever reach that level. Not interested in children or owning my own house for example, which are two of the major things I associate with it.
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I have a smartphone now it's finally the future and I can actually reliably make rounds, unlike the last time the guy was in
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Let's get Genesis Rhapsodos back in
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Shang Tsung
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Oh. Thanks bud.
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Who do I get swordz9
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NR for Yuffie why not
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Minwu
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Leblanc
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X-Death
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What I'd prefer if we're doing mechanic things, are things that don't immediately provide new intel to the game but still are a detriment to the team.

1. If scum does it, a random town player gets a one use bulletproof that never goes away until shot. Scum will be told if they hit the penalty bulletproof with their night kill.
2. If town does it, a random scum player gets a one use roleblock shield against scans/night kills or something like that.

I actually really like the scum modkill thing, but with town I'm struggling to think of something that both hinders town and doesn't provide immediate intel. I think the core of the power up problem is that it can influence the game too easily. Something that is a penalty but has more mystery to it in terms of gained information is ideal.
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Other communities are just worse then

I'm just thinking in terms of what disrupts the game and modkill has to be higher than most things

Like short of someone posting a dissertation on who they think is scum 30 minutes after night phase I'm struggling to think of what is going to mess with the game worse than someone being killed for no (game mechanic based) reason
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I think we're just a bit modkill happy in general. I feel there shouldn't be modkills nor power-up candies necessary for stuff like gravy. The fact that there would have been a modkill under normal rules is a sign that we're treating a symptom with the power up and not the problem I think.

Just a single bold warning to the player for a first minor infraction and then a modkill after that would be fine. Maybe give players who have a history of being warned less slack.

Alternate non kill based enforcement like forced replace outs would be fine too.

Ultimately the question you need to ask is whether a modkill disrupts the game more or allowing it to ride disrupts the game more. The modkill is almost always more disruptive so should generally be avoided. The weird powers you gave out were almost modkill tier though because like we had Sbell's slot as confirmed town for nothing other than the SK getting a cop scan for no reason.
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Sure. Like I said it might have just been coincidence it even mattered and not a scumtell at all but it's day 1 so you gotta play it a bit loose cause there's not much evidence.

Which is why random pointless wagon is not a bad way at all to start day 1 in and of itself because that's basically what every first wagon is in day 1. This one was just faster.

But yeah. No reason at all as Blade to just rage out like that. Guarantee you that doesn't go out to more than one player-- hell if Ulti just comes back and says "I'm not claiming I already said I'm a power role" people might get off of him. I would, probably (if I had voted him anyway lol-- still can't believe I wasn't even on any of the early hammers but the last one (which wasn't even very early))
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It was mostly the "not much is happening" for me than the other things but yeah

Had that day continued beyond Ulti you would have absolutely been my first real lynch push rather than just sheeping Chris (unless he went to you)

I mean it's day 1. We don't have much to go on anyway so I wouldn't say that means it was an obvious slip-up-- like if you do that on day 2 I've probably got a better case to go on than you there so I'm not saying you misplayed, but it would have been a good first step to go on.
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Like before you had the vote that was not consistent with how you were playing there was a lot of content in that day one

- I had a scumread on FD for checking in and saying nothing was happening when we had a wagon at 7 and that he supported an Ulti lynch cause he hates him but not voting for it
- I had a light scumread on Chris because as you said he was being too passive about his lynch
- I had a light scumread on Ulti because it felt like he just poofed in response to votes
- I had a light scumread on SBell because I thought he moved to the Ulti lynch for not much reason after speaking against the lynch early, and his opinions on whether Ulti was scum or not seemed poorly constructed

Obviously not all of these were correct but to say it was a bad start to day 1 is wrong. It was highly condensed highly usable content seeing how people reacted to a blitz wagon. It only became bad day one because because you helped it become one by putting it at -1 and it ended so quickly.

Now I'm for early hammers but not if the person being hammered isn't thought to be scum by the majority on the lynch, and not if the person hasn't had a chance to defend themselves. But early pressure, even if it's for an extremely stupid reason? That's usable content.
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Meow1000 posted...

Though to be 100% blunt I intentionally ignored Chris' "what if he's town?" because my answer would've been that I hoped he was and I didn't want to say something like that during the game. I had no interest in adding that poison.

I can be town, scum, or even Indy; it doesn't matter. I will always hope for a town power flip in that scenario and will hope it is followed by town getting crushed.

As Indy I would effectively scum align myself the rest of the game. Since I won't do that as town, the best option would've been to replace out.

You can't make that judgment only two hours into a game. If you're making that judgment two hours in you're already coming in with a bad mindset.

If what we did is not actually hammered with no response from Ulti, it's a perfectly fine way to start a day 1 in terms of generating content. You're the only one who made it the kinda thing that needs to be punished. Self-fulfilling prophecy, there.
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To be fair in my case at least it wasn't the toxicity that made me lose interest in playing mafia here it was people strongarming their plays, especially those who haven't even been closely following, to the detriment of town

Like if you want me to say which player turns me off from mafia more Fire_Bolt or Ben (or Blade I guess, honestly) right now it's very easily the latter.
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Corrik7 posted...

I doubt Lopen would have continued after being warned tho.

I doubt anyone would have continued it even without the warning because we'd probably agree on everything with you dead (I would support mass claim at actual Lylo and I feel like we had similar town reads) but yeah.
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Corrik7 posted...

Then you were effectively put to -1 and started trolling. You contradicted yourself.

I was put to -1 for a reason that wasn't that anyone thought I was scum on the lynch

Here's a hint if you're organizing a mass claim and need to vote people to force them to do it, it's not going to be effective. Those votes are not doing anything in terms of pressure because no one takes the pressure seriously.

Mass claims the town supports, the town just agrees on a time and everyone just does it.
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I felt the act shouldn't have been convincing enough to fool anyone

3-4 doctors like come on guys
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I didn't think it was hostile either. Not to a point where it needed to be ended anyway. But I have a thicker skin than most about this so *shrug

Like from 0 to Politics Containment Topic this was probably a 3
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Also I wasn't trolling just to troll I was trolling to try and make Corrik (or any other scum) slip into something by pretending to take my absurdity seriously because I figured anyone who was trying to figure the game out would not come to that conclusion and would realize I was just being an idiot

And he did. But he wasn't scum. So why did he react that way I don't know-- but I would say that's probably a flaw in his play. Making a snap judgment that someone is scum and flipping on it less than 10 minutes later means you're not carefully considering who is scum and who isn't.
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I actually don't know why. Who is this person?
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So everyone should be polite except you huh? I'm actually only hostile to you and that's cause I'm bad at turning the other cheek. It's a character flaw of mine. If you start by being polite, I don't escalate it. If you don't, I do.

But you're the initiator, not me. You'll note I was completely cordial to you before the last day. Then you started talking about how we were all dumb for not mass claiming and stressing how you didn't need to read the game if you had a list of roles and how b8 was bad because they read players and not the game or whatever, and so I escalated. Pretty simple.
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Panthera posted...

Real talk, you and Lopen both earned this loss by turning the final day into such a pointless pissing contest that the hosts just called it because there were enough modkillable offenses to justifiably end the game anyway.

I'll accept this if you give Corrik his share too.
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Meow1000 posted...

No one was challenging Chris just doing whatever he wanted but me.

It was the first two hours of day 1. I think it was the most fruitful first two hours of a day 1 I'd ever seen in terms of game useful content.

You let it play out a bit. If Chris continues to just mindlessly zerg for hammers people would have given him flak for it.
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Or you could have actually spent time arguing for another lynch instead of hammering the guy you thought was obvtown

Novel idea I know
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It was literally only you two and scum who favored it. And you guys had town reads on most of the people who opposed it so maybe try and figure out the game by the game's terms rather than railroading the game into the terms you want and it works better for you.
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