Current Events > How can any of us be ethical when the cobalt in our smartphones are mined with

(+) Yeah! (+)

child/slave labor?

A large portion of the worlds cobalt comes from the Congo.

No ethical conception under capitalism.

You could buy used/refurbished, and also stick with the same phone as long as possible to mitigate it.

I mined my own cobalt to smith my own iphone

I get my all my Kobalt from Lowes

harm reduction is the only way to go

maybe we can open a new mine and not use child labor

the moral grandstanding from oblivious people is just too funny sometimes.

for instance the recent outrage against comedians accepting what amounts to nickels to perform in saudi arabia, the largest oil export in the world.

AsucaHayashi posted...

the moral grandstanding from oblivious people is just too funny sometimes.

for instance the recent outrage against comedians accepting what amounts to nickels to perform in saudi arabia, the largest oil export in the world.

If can't be moral 100% of the time, be moral 0% of the time is big dumb.

WingsOfGood posted...

maybe we can open a new mine and not use child labor

with blackjack! and hookers!

Deteled posted...

If can't be moral 100% of the time, be moral 0% of the time is big dumb.

i bet you felt like a big man typing this behind your internet-enabled electronic device

AsucaHayashi posted...

i bet you felt like a big man typing this behind your internet-enabled electronic device

Comparing owning a cell phone to rich comedians doing that Saudi comedy festival is absolutely outrageous lmao

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Comparing owning a cell phone to rich comedians doing that Saudi comedy festival is absolutely outrageous lmao

quick google AI:

The global cellphone (smartphone) market generated approximately USD 585-590 billion in revenue in 2024, with projections indicating continued growth, potentially reaching over USD 790-980 billion by 2032-2033.

how much is the "westerns comedians in saudi arabia" industry again?

"if everybody owns them, it's A-ok"
-internet warrior

AsucaHayashi posted...

quick google AI:

how much is the "westerns comedians in saudi arabia" industry again?

"if everybody owns them, it's A-ok"
-internet warrior

Do you have an actual argument here or are you just trolling because people are criticizing a comedian you like lol

Just got to do the best you can

Deteled posted...

If can't be moral 100% of the time, be moral 0% of the time is big dumb.

Im sure putting on a show over there is exactly the same as being moral 0% of the time they were ever alive in their entire life

AsucaHayashi posted...

quick google AI:

how much is the "westerns comedians in saudi arabia" industry again?

"if everybody owns them, it's A-ok"
-internet warrior

Aah, somebody said something negative about a comedian you like and now you're lashing out, eh?

I pirated the cobalt in mine.

This is not about the end consumer, making the perfectly reasonable decision to buy something which is more or less essential to modern life.

Don't put any part of the blame on them. Put it where it belongs.

The corporations who are not only happy to use the unethically-sourced cobalt, but demand it be produced as cheaply as possible. The governments who permit children to work in the mines. The Western powers whose history of exploitation and colonialism created the environment in which this practice was inevitable.

Their guilt is not your guilt.

The average person doesn't even know how their own government works. How are we supposed to expect them to know the deceptive web of corporate capitalism?

Its impossible to exist in modern society without being connected to issues like that. The only way to avoid it is to leave society and live as a hermit in the wilderness, living off nature

Zikten posted...

Its impossible to exist in modern society without being connected to issues like that. The only way to avoid it is to leave society and live as a hermit in the wilderness, living off nature

Yep. Coca Cola alone has several different aliases. It's almost impossible to take the moral high ground.

being 'perfectly ethical' is nearly impossible in our global, capitalist economy. just do the best you can and minimize the negative impact your life has. try to offset the bad you indirectly cause (eg. buying products of child labor) by doing good in the world.

yEt YoU pArTiCiPaTe In SoCiEty

Blocking was the best feature ever added to gfaqs aside from tagging.

You do the good you can, when you can, and support tech that moves on from those types of minerals

Umbreon posted...

No ethical conception under capitalism.

Why/How would it be more ethical under a non-capitalistic environment?

emblem-man posted...

Why/How would it be more ethical under a non-capitalistic environment?

Potentially, we would be making smartphones by willing and well paid workers instead.

Though that's not to say the evils of the world is purely from capitalism or that slave labor wouldn't exist without it.

As stated in this topic, harm reduction is the best we can do.

emblem-man posted...

Why/How would it be more ethical under a non-capitalistic environment?

That's not really the point of the quote. We can't opt out of many terrible things, we literally don't have the ability to choose. For example, you don't really get much choice where your electricity comes from, but you can't not have electricity in modern society. A smartphone has become an essential item, but you can't really have a smartphone that isn't built on top of exploitative labour and obscene amounts of data harvesting. Car dependent development is horrifically destructive to cities and the environment, but if that where you live then you're gonna have to drive to get around.

https://www.fairphone.com/en/2023/03/02/sticking-with-cobalt-blue/

Some companies are trying

EmbraceOfDeath posted...

You could buy used/refurbished, and also stick with the same phone as long as possible to mitigate it.

This. I've had 2 phones over the last 20 years. Don't be vapid idiots who have to get the new iPhone every fucking year.

garan posted...

This. I've had 2 phones over the last 20 years. Don't be vapid idiots who have to get the new iPhone every fucking year.

To add onto this, get phones that are repairable in the first place. The main thing that goes on many phones are the batteries, which aren't actually particularly expensive components.

AsucaHayashi posted...

the moral grandstanding from oblivious people is just too funny sometimes.

for instance the recent outrage against comedians accepting what amounts to nickels to perform in saudi arabia, the largest oil export in the world.

I wasn't aware "cracking religofascist-approved jokes to a room full of religiofascists in order to destigmatize their murderous and oppressive religofascist regime in exchange for blood money" was a borderline-societal-necessity like a phone is nowadays.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


smartphones isnt critical for society. Computers maybe but not smartphones.

the point is where does the bulk of the money come from for SA to pay those comedians? Same for the money to pay someone like ronaldo his astronomical annual salary?

is it bloodmoney? Yes.
are you and i indirectly complicit just by using/buying stuff made with oil? Yes

does it change the fact that he(and the comedians) have done way more for society than you or i ever will even if they accepted SAs bloodmoney? No

AsucaHayashi posted...

smartphones isnt critical for society. Computers maybe but not smartphones.

the point is where does the bulk of the money come from for SA to pay those comedians? Same for the money to pay someone like ronaldo his astronomical annual salary?

is it bloodmoney? Yes.
are you and i indirectly complicit just by using/buying stuff made with oil? Yes

does it change the fact that he(and the comedians) have done way more for society than you or i ever will even if they accepted SAs bloodmoney? No

What are you trying to argue here?

Taking the Saudi money is a bad thing. And they didn't have to do it. Hence the criticism.

ai123 posted...

Taking the Saudi money is a bad thing. And they didn't have to do it. Hence the criticism.

not worse than giving the saudi money.

and with the US using the most oil out of all countries, there's really no leg to grandstand whatsoever when it comes to a few comedians accepting a few nickels out of billions and billions being poured into SA.

AsucaHayashi posted...

not worse than giving the saudi money.

and with the US using the most oil out of all countries, there's really no leg to grandstand whatsoever when it comes to a few comedians accepting a few nickels out of billions and billions being poured into SA.

So people shouldn't criticize comedians for accepting Saudi money because . . . America buys Saudi oil?

That's some pretty sketchy, not to say incoherent, whataboutism. The comedians have no say in US energy policy, yet complete control over where they perform. I don't see how one makes the other irrelevant.

And it's not them earning money that is the problem. It is their role in normalising Saudi in the eyes of the world. Making an oppressive dictatorship appear like a fun country with comedy, football, golf, boxing etc. Rather than one which chops up journalists into tiny pieces for opposing the regime.

ai123 posted...

So people shouldn't criticize comedians for accepting Saudi money because . . . America buys Saudi oil?

you're free to criticize all you want.

it's pretending they're the worst hypocritical scum and screaming boycott etc. that reeks of moral grandstanding when the fact is they have been a net positive for society than the average internet warrior doing the screaming.

AsucaHayashi posted...

you're free to criticize all you want.

it's pretending they're the worst hypocritical scum and screaming boycott etc. that reeks of moral grandstanding when the fact is they have been a net positive for society than the average internet warrior doing the screaming.

where does throwing a tantrum over internet warriors fit into this social contribution schema of yours?

AsucaHayashi posted...

you're free to criticize all you want.

it's pretending they're the worst hypocritical scum and screaming boycott etc. that reeks of moral grandstanding when the fact is they have been a net positive for society than the average internet warrior doing the screaming.

They are called hypocrites because they have spoken out against this kind of thing in the past, only to now do it themselves. That is the literal definition of hypocrisy.

Yet you choose to attack those who criticize them for it, rather than them for actually doing it.

You're being every bit as hysterical and hyperbolic as those people you seek to criticize. It isn't 'moral grandstanding' to point out hypocrisy. You don't have to be an 'internet warrior' to see that helping to cleanse the image of the Saudi regime is a morally dubious action.

AsucaHayashi posted...

smartphones isnt critical for society. Computers maybe but not smartphones.

the point is where does the bulk of the money come from for SA to pay those comedians? Same for the money to pay someone like ronaldo his astronomical annual salary?

is it bloodmoney? Yes.
are you and i indirectly complicit just by using/buying stuff made with oil? Yes

does it change the fact that he(and the comedians) have done way more for society than you or i ever will even if they accepted SAs bloodmoney? No

For better or worse, they kinda are in massive swathes of society. To do my (essential btw) infrastructure job, I need my laptop and my smartphone, hence why my employer provides them. Without my job being done, critical infrastructure will fail and society will suffer. I cannot opt out of the conflict and exploitation required for my electronics. I think that the good I do outweighs the bad, but it doesn't remove it.

That good does outweigh the "good" that a lot of celebrities do though. Not because I'm some angel, but because the contributions of many celebrities are honestly pretty minimal. Certainly the world would not be worse off without the contributions of the likes of Dave Chapelle.