Current Events > Anyone else looking for to Critical Role's C4 premiere tonight?

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C3 kinda burnt me out. It was fun while watching it, but it was the only time I've really took massive breaks because I just didn't care what was going on.

I'm hoping Brennan and the West Marches' style provides a much needed shake-up, so I'm looking forward to it.

I wish I could get into critical role. I enjoy tabletop game podcasts (shout out Adventure Zone) but theres just too many characters involved in Critical Role for me to enjoy. I like a tighter, 3-4 person crew for my podcasts, its easier to track since Im usually multi-tasking while listening to the shows.

I was disappointed by it not being Daggerheart, but I might pay attention to it as a podcast in the background or just watch clips. Mercer isn't a DM but a player this time right?

codey posted...

I wish I could get into critical role. I enjoy tabletop game podcasts (shout out Adventure Zone) but theres just too many characters involved in Critical Role for me to enjoy. I like a tighter, 3-4 person crew for my podcasts, its easier to track since Im usually multi-tasking while listening to the shows.

Well, this new campaign might be for you because it only has uh....fourteen players.

Unironically though. They're swapping players in and out on the fly for the first four episodes, but they're then going to split those players into three parties. So each table will only have 4-5 people.

MJOLNRVII posted...

I was disappointed by it not being Daggerheart, but I might pay attention to it as a podcast in the background or just watch clips. Mercer isn't a DM but a player this time right?

Yeah, Brennan is DMing.

Matt is playing a big ol' fuck boy.

codey posted...

I wish I could get into critical role. I enjoy tabletop game podcasts (shout out Adventure Zone) but theres just too many characters involved in Critical Role for me to enjoy. I like a tighter, 3-4 person crew for my podcasts, its easier to track since Im usually multi-tasking while listening to the shows.

Glad I'm not the only one... I also can't get into how long their episodes are...

You'd think having the longer episodes compared to most D&D podcasts would be nice while working overnight but I prefer shorter episodes... Weirdly makes the night go by faster.

I need to get back to that at some point. I haven't even finished watching the first campaign.

Critical Role ruined D&D

Not really but it has caused some unfortunate side effects.

i am gonna watch it at some point but i'm not caught up on the "in-between campaigns" stuff

ROBBAN posted...

i am gonna watch it at some point but i'm not caught up on the "in-between campaigns" stuff

Me either. It takes place in a brand new setting, so you don't need the in-between stuff.

that's a good point, actually
i might at least start it to just see the characters then

okay
that was a powerful opening

I found CR in the middle of the Mighty Nein, and watched the rest of that campaign live. Tried catching up fully with Vox Machina during that time, and got about 70% of the way through that. But it's been a while since I continued it. Most of the remainder has been spoiled through C2/3 callbacks and just other fandom stuff so I've kinda lost the momentum to finish. I started campaign 3 live and loved the first 20-30 episodes. Then Robbie left. And within 3 or 4 episodes I had completely lost interest. Felt like the spark had left the rest of the cast and they were kinda going through the motions. Been meaning to pick it back up after hearing Robbie returned later on, but it's a lot of hours...

Learned about Dimension 20 towards the end of C2, and fell in love with Brennan's style. So when I stopped watching Bell's Hells, I started going through the D20 seasons.

Hearing that not only was Mercer finally getting to play a long term character, but now my other favorite DM in the world was taking his place? And not only was Robbie a full cast member, but Aabria and Luis too? Yeah, I am SO excited for this campaign. And the first episode did not disappoint.

About an hour into Episode 1. Great tone setting but not a whole lot of movement. As I understand it's all very slow to start on purpose though, so I'll reserve judgement for now.

first half hour oh my god, Liam is playing a Bard

Aristoph posted...

tarted campaign 3 live and loved the first 20-30 episodes. Then Robbie left. And within 3 or 4 episodes I had completely lost interest. Felt like the spark had left the rest of the cast and they were kinda going through the motions. Been meaning to pick it back up after hearing Robbie returned later on, but it's a lot of hours...

Unless C4 goes downhill, C3 is absolutely the weak point in the show for a variety of reasons.

Uta posted...

About an hour into Episode 1. Great tone setting but not a whole lot of movement. As I understand it's all very slow to start on purpose though, so I'll reserve judgement for now.

I felt the same, it picks up a good bit when Sam and Whitney's characters are introduced. It just starts off with Liam and Luis, the two resident sad boys.

ROBBAN posted...

first half hour oh my god, Liam is playing a Bard

I have to imagine he's playing Matt's homebrewed College of Tragedy bard.

pegusus123456 posted...

Unless C4 goes downhill, C3 is absolutely the weak point in the show for a variety of reasons.

What are those reasons? I kind of petered off from C3 largely due to the enormous time commitment that the campaigns tend to be. I doubt I'll be able to keep up with C4 either as even Dimension 20s much tighter 2 hour episodes strain my schedule somewhat, but I'm keen to know why people didn't like C3. The characters seemed really cool at first glance.

I also was one who didn't like campaign 3. I made it through about 30 episodes or so before I couldn't go on anymore. Didn't like any of the characters (literally not even 1 PC) or setting. I did watch the episodes when characters from the old campaign appeared but didn't like that the only reason I liked those episodes was because of that.

Absolutely hated the ending of the campaign (despite it being creative thinking). I hated the characters viewpoint of the gods. I hated that this set of characters were given this story.

I'll wait a few weeks and watch the first few episodes of C4 when I have the time. Am interested to see how the style works out.

Uta posted...

What are those reasons? I kind of petered off from C3 largely due to the enormous time commitment that the campaigns tend to be. I doubt I'll be able to keep up with C4 either as even Dimension 20s much tighter 2 hour episodes strain my schedule somewhat, but I'm keen to know why people didn't like C3. The characters seemed really cool at first glance.

Matt introduces the main plot of the campaign super early on and it's apocalyptic from the outset, so any kind of deviation from it feels like a waste of time from both an audience and player perspective. Some of the best parts of the first two campaigns was the way character backstories got integrated into the main plot, but that just doesn't really happen here much. And when it does happen, it feels tacked on and superficial. And that even goes for the few characters who have backstories which tie into the main plot.

Probably for that reason, the party just didn't develop their characters as much as the previous campaigns. Taliesin's character in particular is just ugggggh. He starts off as this bitchy asshole and Taliesin's intent was probably for other characters to push back against him to trigger some development, much like Beau in C2, but that never happens. So he ends the campaign still being a bitchy asshole.

The characters are cool, but the problem is they do not fit the campaign's main plotline at fucking all. There was no "session zero" where Matt outlined what he wanted to do with this campaign. I'll get into spoiler territory here.

The main plotline is that Ruidus, Exandria's second moon, is actually a prison created by the gods to seal away a being called Predathos which eats divinity. It killed two gods before they locked it up and now a powerful archmage named Ludinus is trying to free it because he's old enough to remember the Calamity, a massive war between the gods that nearly killed all mortal life on the planet. He understandably thinks the gods suck.

The first issue with this plotline is that it tries very hard to take a more neutral stance on the gods, portraying the Pantheon as more morally ambiguous. Which would work fine if we didn't have two campaigns that portrayed them as unequivocally good, righteous people. So there are parts where it feels a bit retconny.

The second problem is the MCU problem. C3 is the Endgame of Exandria, so there's a lot more crossover with the first two campaigns. You know how sometimes people will ask why Iron Man doesn't ask Hulk for help? That's a massive problem here. Vox Machina and The Mighty Nein are both level 20 adventuring parties with personal reasons to stop Ludinus' plans, but they're just shuffled off to the side for Bell's Hells who are a self-described "group of chuckle fucks." And the MCU solves this at least a little by keeping the other characters offscreen, but Liam's character is one of Keyleth's personal guard and they interact with VM constantly.

And the MOST glaring problem with this main plotline is that yeah, the individual characters of BH are fun, but they have absolutely zero stake in this plotline. Liam, Laura, and Ashley have a bit of connection: Liam's husband and son were killed by assassins working for Ludinus, Laura's mom is directly involved with Ludinus' plans and her powers are connected to Predathos, and it turns out Ashley's real dad is an archfey working with Ludinus. That's fine.

But the main crux of the plotline is the god thing and none of the characters are religious. The closest is Sam's character, a goofy little robot who eventually kind of starts to worship the Changebringer, but it's shallow and superficial like all character development in the campaign.

So some characters actually agree with Ludinus that the gods should be stopped, but they don't have any personal connection to the gods so it's like....why? Taliesin's character just thinks they suck because his life sucks and they never helped him. Marisha's character agreed despite the fact she fuckin' died and a cleric of the Everlight brought her back to life. No one actually argues in favor of the gods, even Sam's character, but they all agree they need to stop Ludinus.

And this leads to. So. Much. Fucking. Wheel spinning. So so so so many episodes where they have the exact same goddamn conversation on whether they're doing the right thing, on whether they should help Ludinus, on whether they should stop Ludinus and let Predathos out, whether the gods are good, whether the gods are bad, just over and over and over again. Even down to the last fuckin' episode where they're literally at the door to Predathos' chamber, they DO NOT KNOW what they're going to do.

The episodes are fun to watch in the moment, the cast at least are still enjoying themselves and the humor is still there, but it's just such a drag taken as a whole.

There are later episodes where they play as their C1 and C2 characters and it's just such an insane difference. They get right back into it like they never stopped and it's so captivating compared to their C3 characters.

Wow thanks for the in depth write up Pegausus. I zoned out of season 3 when it was clear every character wanted t be 'the silly one'. It made it hard to really get into. I'm sure they had fun with it but it wasn't for me.

Oh well everyone seems to agree season 3 was the weakest.

Oh, this is more of a minor issue and it runs back into C2 as well: the party is weirdly terrified of combat.

I think C2's permanent character death fucked them up because they will go to insane lengths to try and avoid it and at a certain point it's like...come on. The most egregious example I can think of in C3 is when they're accosted by some centaurs and they're lowkey freaking out.

Some CR2 centaurs.

At level eight.

With seven party members.

They're forced into combat because centaurs run faster than them and they effortlessly destroy them, but they take no lesson from this.

That is one thing I look forward to for C4. Combat is one thing Brennan is just better at than Matt. And I don't think he'll coddle them quiiiiite so much.

I tried to listen to critical role before but the episodes are so damn long and it didn't really grab me. Plus I've been listening to TAZ for years and didn't feel like I needed another DnD podcast. But I'm always down for some BLM. I'm gonna check it out.

specialkid8 posted...

I tried to listen to critical role before but the episodes are so damn long and it didn't really grab me. Plus I've been listening to TAZ for years and didn't feel like I needed another DnD podcast. But I'm always down for some BLM. I'm gonna check it out.

Try EXU: Calamity.

Brennan is the DM for that and holy shit it is so good

pegusus123456 posted...

snip

One of those bullet points was one of the things that made me hate a particular season of Digimon so much. Spoilers for Digimon Hunters The finale features every major protagonist from the franchise's history showing up to help the new hero, but then after they blow up a ton of fodder an old man basically says, "Alright that's enough. The rest of you can't help anymore. You've already saved your worlds and you can't save another. New guy, you're on your own for the final battle".

Anyways I've never managed to finish a CR Campaign. I really liked what I saw of Mighty Nein, but wanted to go back to Campaign 1 and then struggled with some of the Acaba scenes early on. I don't think I ever left the dwarven mines, lol.

pegusus123456 posted...

While i did enjoy the show and watched/ listened to it fully, i absolutely agree to every point
Especially how the "Do we even care about the gods? They've never done anything for us, should we let them die?" stuff just went on and on repeatedly

Of course Laura would have to roll a Nat 1 on her death saving throw, moments after her character is introduced.

008Zulu posted...

Of course Laura would have to roll a Nat 1 on her death saving throw, moments after her character is introduced.

I made a post in the subreddit's live viewing topic saying, "It's just for the drama, Brennan isn't going to kill off a character before they're actually introduced."

Sure ate those words lmao

pegusus123456 posted...

I'll add in another major complaint I had - the locations in C3 never seemed to have any life to them. In C1 and C2, they would constantly revisit cities, so nearly every place actually felt like a living, breathing city.

C1;
Whitestone was revisited multiple times, being the home of Percy. They engaged in festivals and had multiple plot lines connected to the city itself, so any time there was a threat to the town, it felt like there were actual people in danger. It also served as a home base to Vox Machina

Then there was Emon, their official home base (Castle Greyskull). This was another city that would be revisited multiple times, whenever they needed to convene with the leaders of Tal'Dorei (until it was destroyed by the Conclave). Even afterwards, it would still be a major location, as the cast would return regularly to interact with cast-favorite NPCs like Gilmore.

Vasselheim and Marquet were visited less often, but still played a major part in the campaign with multiple plot lines running through them. And just like the other cities, had memorable NPCs that cast themselves actually HAD to make a point to interact with every time they returned (ex: Victor).

C2;
Much like C1, there were multiple "Home Bases". The first of which being in Xhorhas, where they were gifted an actual home. Despite the ticking clock of a major war, the crew made it a point to revisit the Xhor-house multiple times to reset themselves and check in with cast-favorite characters like Essek.

The second home base of the Mighty Nein was Nicodranas, the home of Jester. Over the course of the campaign, they probably returned here about a dozen times to check in on NPCs like Marion (Jester's mom), Yussa (wizard tower), or Yeza/Luke (Veth's family). So much like Whitestone in C1, there was an emotional connection to the location and a desire to make sure the people there stayed safe when danger presented itself

Zadash, while not being a home base, still saw itself as a major hub for the Nein over the course of the entire campaign. Quests from the Gentleman, shopping trips with Pumat Sol, and lore dumps in the Archives.

C3
In Campaign 3, they didn't have roots anywhere. They started strong, fleshing out Jrusar over the course of the first 25(?) episodes but as soon as they left the city, it became an afterthought. Hell, it almost seemed like they forgot it even existed. Laura's character would sometimes wonder how Zhudanna was doing, but that was the extent of any connection they had once they left.

The only location they seemed to really care to revisit was Whitestone, which wasn't even a C3 original.

A rotating cast of, what was it, 13 players? I wonder if they will have a base.

i think i would be interested in these things if there was just less people

i really don't think they're gaining anything by always having so many

ConfusedTorchic posted...

i think i would be interested in these things if there was just less people

i really don't think they're gaining anything by always having so many

The whole point of this campaign is "best of both worlds" in terms of group size. They've got 13 main player characters, but after the first 4-episode introduction to everyone and the world, they're splitting off into 3 smaller tables of 4-5 players each. Don't know if they've officially announced schedule-wise how it'll go, but I'm guessing they'll have 2-4 episodes in a row with the same table untangling some smaller storyline before switching to another table for a few episodes.

So you get plenty of characters and storylines, but each session should be a much smaller and more manageable setting to follow along. And I'm sure there's going to be some super hype BBEG moments with 10+ PCs battling armies scattered throughout the campaign.

Uta posted...

Anyways I've never managed to finish a CR Campaign. I really liked what I saw of Mighty Nein, but wanted to go back to Campaign 1 and then struggled with some of the Acaba scenes early on. I don't think I ever left the dwarven mines, lol.

I highly recommend sticking with C1. Acaba isn't around too much longer and it gets good almost immediately once he's gone. I think it was around episode 27, iirc? Some people jump straight to that point when starting, so if he's really bothering you (understandably), you wouldn't be alone in just skipping him entirely. And the rest of the campaign is absolutely worth the time investment, especially if you've avoided the major spoilers.