Poll of the Day > There's no superhero fatigue only mcu fatigue

(+) Yeah! (+)

Who even cares about echo or Agatha Hackness? the fact that we got that series before Rogue, Storm, Silk, Spidergwen and/or other recognised female heavyhitters is a travesty pororin!

I miss self contained superhero movies. Now everything has to be part of a larger universe

MomSpringfield posted...

I miss self contained superhero movies. Now everything has to be part of a larger universe

The only good mcu movies is Iron man, the rest just mid to barely decent TV series flicks disguised as big budget blockbuster movies.

If it was MCU fatigue then the DC movies wouldn't have done so bad.

MICHALECOLE posted...

Pororin warm takes just that spicy you

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/16e4906e.jpg

Pororin warm takes just that spicy you

Revelation34 posted...

If it was MCU fatigue then the DC movies wouldn't have done so bad.

#BringbackSnyderFans

MICHALECOLE posted...

Pororin warm takes just that spicy you

Look up pororin!

Pororin posted...

Who even cares about echo or Agatha Hackness? the fact that we got that series before Rogue, Storm, Silk, Spidergwen and/or other recognised female heavyhitters is a travesty pororin!

That's because the people they hired to create these aren't actually comic fans.

MomSpringfield posted...

I miss self contained superhero movies. Now everything has to be part of a larger universe

Then that's because the suits rubbing their palms together with money for pupils learned that stuff like the Avengers movies made them lots of money! But they didn't realize that there was first building blocks of those individual heroes.

deoxxys posted...

That's because the people they hired to create these aren't actually comic fans.

Then that's because the suits rubbing their palms together with money for pupils learned that stuff like the Avengers movies made them lots of money! But they didn't realize that there was first building blocks of those individual heroes.

Mcu spider-man had to be the weakest entry pororin ever seen. Parker can't even breath without Tony stark stealing the show as some sort of "master". Let the boy be spider-man not Iron-boy velma!

Pororin posted...

Mcu spider-man had to be the weakest entry pororin ever seen. Parker can't even breath without Tony stark stealing the show as some sort of "master". Let the boy be spider-man not Iron-boy velma!

He was the closest to the original comic Spider-Man.

I just watched the first mcu spiderman the other day for the first time in awhile

so good

i love the second one with Jake gyllenhaal the best of the three though

Revelation34 posted...

He was the closest to the original comic Spider-Man.

Of course no uncle Ben to seen, he is the closest to the comic pororin!

Pororin posted...

Mcu spider-man had to be the weakest entry pororin ever seen. Parker can't even breath without Tony stark stealing the show as some sort of "master". Let the boy be spider-man not Iron-boy velma!

Spider-Man movies are like the one entry I'm like guilty of usually enjoying though poorin

MICHALECOLE posted...

I just watched the first mcu spiderman the other day for the first time in awhile

so good

i love the second one with Jake gyllenhaal the best of the three though

Vulture and nacho varga the most memorable spider-criminal ever.

Revelation34 posted...

He was the closest to the original comic Spider-Man.

Iron Man feat. Iron Man Jr?

Pororin posted...

Vulture and nacho varga the most memorable spider-criminal ever.

Michael Keaton is awesome

deoxxys posted...

Spider-Man movies are like the one entry I'm like guilty of usually enjoying though poorin

Pororin also enjoy watching mcu spiderman but the novelty wears off after watching it several times. Pororin had no problems with Toby version even if the third entry kinda fumbles because Avi Arad want to push all these villain down the throat without Sam raising blessing. Venom should've put in the fourth movie or so and built more from that teehee

I didn't dislike No Way Home but the other two were so much better.

MICHALECOLE posted...

Michael Keaton is awesome

Michael keaton is typecast as winged beast superhero

It's more bad movie fatigue, combined with poor reputation and the consequences of past actions.

Marvel hasn't made a worthwhile movie since Endgame, and they expect people to pay for Disney+ to watch a dozen bad TV shows. That's not really a recipe for audience engagement.

And it isn't likely to change any time soon, considering the next few movies almost seem like they're doomed (no pun intended) to be terrible.



Revelation34 posted...

If it was MCU fatigue then the DC movies wouldn't have done so bad.

The problem there is that the last 20 or so DC movies were also bad (give or take a couple minor potential exceptions). Same problem - bad movie fatigue, bad reputation.

Superman might break that trend... but the opening will almost certainly be weak because trust in the brand is long gone and the trailers don't seem all that appealing to most people (and there's a lot of bad rumors coming out via leaks and test screenings).

It could theoretically be a fantastic movie, which in turn snowball viewings as good word-of-mouth encourages audiences to be willing to trust again... but it's unlikely. And most people won't be willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. And if Superman fails to make at least $750 million (and preferably significantly more) , it's going to have a huge negative knock-on effect to most of what James Gunn is currently planning for the rest of the DCU.



....though it's also worth remembering that neither of these cases are helped by the fact that streaming (and the Covid quarantine) has kind of killed a lot of the compulsion audiences have towards seeing movies in theaters at all. It's much easier to ignore a mediocre film now because "Ehh, maybe I'll catch it on streaming later." Movies with strong word of mouth (or less brand damage) can still succeed in theaters, but Marvel and DC are both severely damaged brands now.

If someone theoretically made a superhero movie with relatable characters and a great story that was based on a non-"Big Two" franchise and which is markedly being produced by someone other than Disney/WB (and at this point probably not someone like Amazon or Sony either), and it had strong word-of-mouth catch fire, it would probably do very well. Especially if it was produced by a sane studio that didn't spend $400 million+ on filming budget. But the odds of us getting that out of modern Hollywood are pretty much zero.



(The other thing to remember is that trust is easily lost but is much harder to regain. You can't reverse the apathy that stems from a dozen or more bad movies in a row with a single good movie. You have to re-earn that trust by producing multiple quality films that are well-received, to convince the audience that you've learned from your mistakes and are back on the right track, and that their investment in your product will be rewarded. But that requires a level of commitment most corporate-heavy studios are no longer capable of, because they will pivot their entire production philosophy on a single failure, rather than understanding that projects don't just fail because of their own poor quality, but also because of the poor quality of their direct predecessors.)

I dont think its quite fair to say that Marvel hasnt made a worthwhile movie since Endgame. While most of them have been mediocre or outright bad, Guardians 3 is some of their best work.

Glob posted...

I dont think its quite to say that Marvel hasnt made a worthwhile movie since Endgame. While most of them have been mediocre or outright bad, Guardians 3 is some of their best work.

James gunn gonna made dc right again. Pororin cam feel it!

Let's face it, marvel just kinda sucks, they got weak heros, really weak villains, and just wanna make cringey "jokes" all movie.

DC isn't much better but at least they still got Batman to save the day, he's really the only superhero I care to see anymore.

MomSpringfield posted...

I miss self contained superhero movies. Now everything has to be part of a larger universe

Yep, this is a big problem, I don't need a crossover every movie with additional cameos just to hype up the next team up movie

deoxxys posted...

Then that's because the suits rubbing their palms together with money for pupils learned that stuff like the Avengers movies made them lots of money! But they didn't realize that there was first building blocks of those individual heroes.

Pretty much. Pre-/Peri-Avengers MCU movies were tangentially related, but effectively standlone. It was then really cool that they got woven into a meta-narrative because it was crossing over those standalone properties, eventually culminating in Endgame as a huge climactic moment.

Post-Endgame, though, they've been trying to make lightning strike again and launched into a meta-narrative right out of the gate. I want to watch a bunch of the post-Endgame stuff, because I have every reason to believe plenty of it is worth watching (plenty more isn't, but I'm not one of those people that gets so caught up whining about the existence of bad stuff that I can't enjoy related good stuff), but it pretty much all has prerequisites and/or commits to following a longer-term story, and having that commitment staring me in the face kills any motivation I might have had to start.

It's actually exactly the same reason I've never gotten into comics: I'm sure I'd have a great time with some, but knowing that I'll be missing big chunks of any given franchise's history regardless of where I choose to start unless I go all-in on reading the enormous back-catalog of content makes the idea too unappealing to try.

Though, saying this, we can't pin all the blame on studios. Whenever a meta-narrative exists (or even just might exist), audiences love to try fitting things into it. We've got people trying to figure out where DK Bananza fits in the overall Mario canon, just because having a young Pauline positions it as a chronological prequel to Odyssey. The Mario canon. That kind of franchise analysis is fun, and it can be exciting to find connections/crossovers and to have that speculation rewarded with some canon fanservice, regardless of whether or not things actually need to be connected (the Mario canon). Studios are obviously taking that too far by connecting everything (<syndrome>when everything's connected, nothing will be</syndrome>), but that they're trying is answering a very real demand from audiences. It's just another one of those cases where giving audiences exactly what they ask for doesn't actually work out so well, and studios need to learn when to stop.

The MCU was fun and well-done for what it was. However, the story is concluded. It was always going to be an uphill battle after Endgame and Disney did not handle it well

Glob posted...

I dont think its quite fair to say that Marvel hasnt made a worthwhile movie since Endgame. While most of them have been mediocre or outright bad, Guardians 3 is some of their best work.

I do. Especially since I included the " a couple minor potential exceptions" corollary.

I could see some people liking Guardians 3, but it's easily the weakest of all the Guardians movies. It's good, but not necessarily great. It's very skippable, especially if you're already alienated by multiple bad movies preceding it.

Someone could point to Deadpool and Wolverine, but that's barely a Disney Marvel film. It started out as a Fox film, and then mostly became a weird nostalgia-fueled fever dream. It's fun (at least one first watch), but not necessarily great.

And then you've got the Spider-Man movies, but those are sort of weird because of the Sony connection, and because again, No Way Home was coasting more on Sony Spider-Man nostalgia than the MCU itself.

Still, that's maybe four (depending on how you look at things) acceptable movies out of 15. With a few more bad movies tacked on if you're aware that the Sony Marvel movies exist (even if they're not part of the MCU). And then a ton of stuff on Disney+ that is basically required viewing (because half the later movies are directly referencing characters or events from those shows). That's a LOT of bad (or mediocre) Marvel movies (and shows) pulling things down, and no one clear stand out to pull people back if they've already checked out from multiple bad movies in a row.



Muscles posted...

Let's face it, marvel just kinda sucks, they got weak heros, really weak villains, and just wanna make cringey "jokes" all movie.

This is one of the things that people definitely complain about - what has been described as the "Whedonification" of Marvel. Every character has to be a sarcastic quippy jackass, with the humor undercutting a lot of otherwise dramatic or emotional scenes.



Muscles posted...

DC isn't much better but at least they still got Batman to save the day, he's really the only superhero I care to see anymore.

The problem there is that it seems like James Gunn is deliberately squelching Batman.

The current impression seems to be that "The Batman" did well financially, and "The Penguin" was fairly well received on MAX, but they both predate and exist outside of James Gunn's control over the DCU. They're proof of Matt Reeves' success, not James Gunn's.

Which puts James Gunn in a really awkward position. If Superman bombs and a potential Batman sequel does well, it makes him look very bad, and jeopardizes his control over the franchise. So to protect himself, he basically has to either prevent Batman from getting a new movie, or he has to take control of Batman himself. But it's hard for him to justify taking it away from Matt Reeves because Matt Reeves is currently a proven success while James Gunn... isn't (yet). At least not with DC.

So basically we probably won't be seeing Batman any time soon... unless Superman is either a wild runaway success (and maybe Supergirl as well), at which point Gunn will feel secure enough to either tolerate or override Matt Reeves, or if Superman is such a catastrophic failure that WB immediately gets cold feet and start to pull power away from him, at which point they might just greenlight Matt Reeves' Batman sequel as a side-project outside of the DCU.

And to be honest, that's probably what they should do anyway. The MCU worked because they sort of started out establishing multiple characters separately before they started to pull them together into a shared universe. But now everyone feels like shared universes are the mandatory thing (so you can have your mega-crossover movies that break box office records). But if you establish and maintain characters as separate franchises, then the failure of one doesn't hurt the others as badly, and it becomes far easier to ignore or reboot characters that aren't working without damaging the ones that are.

It's like how the failure of Superman Returns didn't really negatively impact the success of the Nolan Batman films. Whereas Snyder's DCEU kind of hamstrung all of its individual characters because of the desperation to force them all into a unified team film (which was terrible).

Let's face it, anime heroes are just better than superheroes and superheroes haven't been able to adjust since anime became popular in the west

Damn_Underscore posted...

Let's face it, anime heroes are just better than superheroes and superheroes haven't been able to adjust since anime became popular in the west

Superman solos Goku.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Let's face it, anime heroes are just better than superheroes and superheroes haven't been able to adjust since anime became popular in the west

... When do you think anime "became popular in the west"?

The MCU Spidey series feels a little better when you watch them with the interpretation that they're all supposed to be his origin story. The way that No Way Home ends is perfectly set up for Peter to truly begin his solo Spidey career without being in Iron Man or anyone else's shadow.

I liked Agatha

I was sick of the MCU like ten years ago

No, there is definite fatigue because the glut of super hero media over the last decade and a half. Probably longer. Doesn't matter what company it comes from.

Revelation34 posted...

He was the closest to the original comic Spider-Man.

that would be garfield

Agatha was incredible and if you don't think so, we can safely ignore your opinion

ConfusedTorchic posted...

that would be garfield

That dude hates Mondays

papercup posted...

I was sick of the MCU like ten years ago

How long ago was the first Avengers movie? After that for me. With few exceptions such as the first Ant Man and Deadpool

MomSpringfield posted...

I miss self contained superhero movies. Now everything has to be part of a larger universe

That's kind of the way that they had to do it because with the volume of movies they had to put out, it's more like a tv show with feature length episodes.