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ChaosTonyV4 05/18/25 2:09:42 AM #251: |
Forceful_Dragon posted... Can you please talk about literally anything else? I literally said in 2020 that even if he somehow won, if he ran again we were fucked, and I kept saying more motherfuckeds should be stomping their feet and saying he needs to step aside, and I kept being told that it was ableist and falling for propaganda to say Joe was losing it, and the only reason I was complaining was because I wanted Trump to win. Lo and behold, every motherfucker behind the scenes saw Joe was cooked, and they concealed it because Joe was selfish and wanted to run again, and nobody had the spine to stand up and say he should shut the fuck up and stay out of it. Even if somehow we get through Trumps second term safely and a Dem wins in 2028, we have taken irreparable damage as a country from this, and you dont get to blame me for shit when I (and many others who were made pariahs) were telling you guys to listen. I dont even want to have been right, Im not doing that dumbass Ulti called it junk, I just want the people who accused me of being a propagandist Trump supporter to apologize to me, and I dont think thats a lot to ask. --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChaosTonyV4 05/18/25 2:13:18 AM #252: |
Also FD you dont get to say we all knew Joe was old and showing signs of age, because many people in this topic literally said to me Youre falling for Fox News propaganda and helping Trump win. They fell for the lie, and they insulted me for it. Im allowed to be frustrated at that. --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado ... Copied to Clipboard!
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GTM 05/18/25 3:19:38 AM #253: |
ChaosTonyV4 posted... I just want the people who accused me of being a propagandist Trump supporter to apologize to meWhich people are you asking for? --- GTM - Boko United survivor and dillos and nintendo and you are awesome ... Copied to Clipboard!
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catesdb 05/18/25 6:07:22 AM #254: |
GOB Iden --- she/her o, power of kings ... Copied to Clipboard!
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TheCapisBack 05/18/25 8:50:30 AM #255: |
ChaosTonyV4 posted... Also FD you dont get to say we all knew Joe was old and showing signs of age, because many people in this topic literally said to me Youre falling for Fox News propaganda and helping Trump win. Have you ever considered that youre super fuckin annoying and people are gonna dogpile you no matter what as a result? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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foolm0r0n 05/18/25 9:01:16 AM #256: |
What's funny is there is no dogpile because they know that he's right, so they can't muster any real pushback against him. They're meek as hell and it's embarrassing. It's actually indicative of what we'll see from Trumpers after all this is said and done. They will beg for us to stop reminding them of how many terrible decisions they made in a row, and we won't, for years, potentially until our deaths. And that's just what they deserve. --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Big_Bob 05/18/25 9:44:24 AM #257: |
Tony may not be a Trump supporter, but I probably wouldn't want to be friends with him IRL either. --- azuarc beat me. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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foolm0r0n 05/18/25 10:16:41 AM #258: |
So you follow the elementary school playground philosophy of politics? --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HanOfTheNekos 05/18/25 11:04:08 AM #259: |
Biden is senile and that is bad. Biden probably would have performed better than Harris in the last election. Tony is not a Trump supporter (not sure what dummy came up with that nonsense). Tony is right that Biden wasn't going to be fit in four years. Tony is wrong in championing his ability to see the future at this moment because Biden is still the only one to defeat Trump in a general election and had the incumbent boost and likely would have done better than Harris. I mean, let's be real - a full primary season for the left doesn't stop Trump winning. Unless Obama ran, Biden was probably always the best option. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Dancedreamer 05/18/25 11:06:03 AM #260: |
HanOfTheNekos posted... Biden probably would have performed better than Harris in the last election. No he wouldn't. There is zero evidence of this. All evidence shows that Biden would have performed worse. --- This isn't funny Dean, the voice says I'm almost out of minutes! ~Alexandra ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HanOfTheNekos 05/18/25 11:09:58 AM #261: |
I mean, it's impossible to prove an event that didn't and will not happen, yeah. But also, we're talking about the difference between people who would stay home because they're okay with Trump winning over old Biden vs the people who would have turned out for Biden over Harris. Do we have that metric? I'm sure everyone in this topic would have not voted for old Biden over Trump (this is sarcasm). --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic ... Copied to Clipboard!
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PeaceFrog 05/18/25 11:13:31 AM #262: |
Why the fuck would anyone care to give attention to Biden's age when we're dealing with shit like this: https://www.mesoscalenews.com/p/tornado-warnings-delayed-because At least 27 people are dead, with more still missing, across Missouri and Kentucky. --- ~Peaf~ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Dancedreamer 05/18/25 11:18:54 AM #263: |
Polling showed Biden losing New Jersey. Who's going to show up for Biden that didn't for Kamala? Certainly not the 'Killer Kamala' folks. Kamala reenergized the Democratic Party that stemmed the bleeding. I think if they had let Tim Walz be Tim Walz, they'd have done even better. Harris approval rating was higher than Biden's too. --- This isn't funny Dean, the voice says I'm almost out of minutes! ~Alexandra ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HanOfTheNekos 05/18/25 11:21:09 AM #264: |
Then let me amend my statement to one we can both agree on - there is no point in Tony taking a victory lap because the election was impossible for Dems to win. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic ... Copied to Clipboard!
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redrocket 05/18/25 11:28:55 AM #265: |
This isnt about him taking a victory lap. ChaosTonyV4 posted... I dont even want to have been right, Im not doing that dumbass Ulti called it junk, I just want the people who accused me of being a propagandist Trump supporter to apologize to me, and I dont think thats a lot to ask. That said, I have no idea who these people are and if theyre still around --- It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest ... Copied to Clipboard!
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v_charon 05/18/25 11:34:21 AM #266: |
Dancedreamer posted... Polling showed Biden losing New Jersey. Who's going to show up for Biden that didn't for Kamala? Certainly not the 'Killer Kamala' folks. Kamala reenergized the Democratic Party that stemmed the bleeding. I think if they had let Tim Walz be Tim Walz, they'd have done even better. Harris approval rating was higher than Biden's too. Polling also showed Harris winning from what I recall and we see how that turned out. --- :> Truly smilin' ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Thorn 05/18/25 11:35:59 AM #267: |
Not going to trawl through old topics or anything but I believe my stance around the time of the debate was that Biden wasn't "cooked" but had certainly lost a step but that amplifying the dementia shit was just plain unhelpful because we were basically at a point where it was Biden or no one so attacking him was just detrimental to the cause. I don't know if that puts me in the column of people Tony is demanding an apology from (certainly I was wrong that it was too late to replace Biden but in my defense that was a historic move. And I was probably wrong in the severity of Biden's situation though from the reporting I've read post-election it seems more like Biden still had "on" moments it was just he had troubling "off" moments too.) But if I am, and if it helps us move past this, then fine, I apologize. Though I'm pretty damn sure I never accused Tony of being a Trump supporter lmfao. --- May you find your book in this place. Formerly known as xp1337. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HanOfTheNekos 05/18/25 11:37:18 AM #268: |
redrocket posted... This isnt about him taking a victory lap. I mean, if it wasn't a victory lap, he'd not need to mention that he foresaw it 5 years ago. But yeah, I feel like half the arguments and complaints people have in this thread are towards Strawmen or from taking the most extreme interpretation of what other people are saying. But hey, politics gets people riled up so I suppose it's expected. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HeroicCrono 05/18/25 11:42:13 AM #269: |
I didn't vote for Kamala (or Trump), but I would have voted for Biden provided he didn't say he was going to resign. He did a great job. But this discussion is kind of silly. The Dems were doomed in 2024 matter what. They weren't doomed in 2016 if they had chosen Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton and if anyone should apologize, it's Hillary supporters. --- This is Red Sox 777 on a mobile phone. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Dancedreamer 05/18/25 11:42:23 AM #270: |
PeaceFrog posted... Why the fuck would anyone care to give attention to Biden's age when we're dealing with shit like this: Becuase they wanted an excuse to vote for Trump. And the Media wanted Trump in because Trump = Ratings and tax cuts for their bosses. Trump is easily manipulatable for someone like Jeff Bezos or Patrick Soon-Shiong. They are 100% complicit in his election. And all the billionaires really care about is how they can pay less in taxes and pay their workers less and give them worse conditions. EVERYONE complaining about Biden's competency is ignoring Trump's incompetency. Whether he's senile or not, he has no fucking clue what he's doing, and his cabinet has even less of an idea of what it's doing. If Lloyd Austin invited a news reporter to a war chat on Signal, that would have been in the news cycle until 2028. But Pete Hegseth does it, and it's already forgotten about. The media is covering up the incompetency of the Trump administration, and none of them will do a damn thing about it until he's out of office and they write their little books trying to make money off of gullible suckers. They cover Trump favorably because they want favors from him. I'd say we've become Idiocracy, but Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho would make a better President than Donald Trump. A smarter President, with far more competence. And that's before Luke Wilson shows up. The problem with idiocracy is it assumed that idiocy would not be combined with malice and corruption. --- This isn't funny Dean, the voice says I'm almost out of minutes! ~Alexandra ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Chaeix 05/18/25 11:47:11 AM #271: |
guys just stop talking about biden every time you talk about Biden trump gets what he wants --- we're all buds~jc~ <DeathChicken> you are my hero for being the first person to cite National Geographic in Mercs ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 05/18/25 11:49:28 AM #272: |
I have no idea why we're talking about Biden. Harris should have won and did not. If Biden had lost I could see why we are talking about it but ??? --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HanOfTheNekos 05/18/25 11:55:00 AM #273: |
I was honestly just trying to shut down the discussion myself, but will admit I was complicit in furthering it. Anyway, I'd be all for charging Musk for involuntary manslaughter. He's definitely guilty of reckless endangerment, and since people have been dying... --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic ... Copied to Clipboard!
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v_charon 05/18/25 12:05:04 PM #274: |
Missouri and Kentucky aren't states that have any chance of learning from this unfortunately. --- :> Truly smilin' ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HanOfTheNekos 05/18/25 12:08:11 PM #275: |
I mean, this could be a spark that leads Beshear into running as the candidate for rural areas that are dependent on this sort of thing. Especially if we see more of these every year --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Kenri 05/18/25 12:21:00 PM #276: |
Dancedreamer posted... EVERYONE complaining about Biden's competency is ignoring Trump's incompetency. Whether he's senile or not, he has no fucking clue what he's doing, and his cabinet has even less of an idea of what it's doing.It's so goddamn bizarre. We're watching the current president have no fucking idea how his own policies work and still talking about a dude who wasn't even part of the last presidential vote. "I want an apology from people saying I fell for the propaganda," says man who is still actively falling for the propaganda. --- "You're childish. What are you getting? Are you getting strawberry? Ha! That's such a childish flavor, only children eat strawberry." ... Copied to Clipboard!
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GTM 05/18/25 12:42:24 PM #277: |
HanOfTheNekos posted... I was honestly just trying to shut down the discussion myself, but will admit I was complicit in furthering it. I want to know who exactly Tony is looking for an apology from that will shut down the discussion. --- GTM - Boko United survivor and dillos and nintendo and you are awesome ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Forceful_Dragon 05/18/25 1:25:38 PM #278: |
All the doubters and the haters We can't all be real ones like Tony --- ~C~ FD http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChaosTonyV4 05/18/25 2:25:45 PM #279: |
Lopen posted... I have no idea why we're talking about Biden. Were talking about it because they released the audio that brought the special counsel to the conclusion that Joe was a confused old man. Its news. We know that its a day ending in Y so theres some more evil shit Trump is doing, we can afford to make a handful of posts about news when we now definitively KNOW Dems lied about Joe because Joe wanted to run again. A reporter asked Schumer if he was lying when he said Joe was as sharp as ever and he didnt even deny it! He just said Were looking forward. Were looking forward and moved on. Its MAGA-cult like behavior to just wave this shit away and not be fucking pissed off at this --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChaosTonyV4 05/18/25 2:27:53 PM #280: |
Kenri posted... It's so goddamn bizarre. We're watching the current president have no fucking idea how his own policies work and still talking about a dude who wasn't even part of the last presidential vote. "I want an apology from people saying I fell for the propaganda," says man who is still actively falling for the propaganda. If your definition of propaganda is stuff I dont like, its all fucking propaganda. And yes, I wasnt going to call people out by name because Id hoped people could just go I was misled, my bad, but you were the first person I thought of because wed basically never had a disagreement until you specifically (but youre not the only one) told me I was repeating Fox propaganda, and youre doing it again lol. Why is the reality that Joe was fucking GONE and Dems hid it (probably because they thought he could beat Trump againuntil the debate) propaganda to you? Instead the same exact people are going who cares lol, they lied and put us into this position, move on --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChaosTonyV4 05/18/25 2:34:57 PM #281: |
And to triple post, none of the liberal/left people I see talking about Joe would ever deny Trumps senility. Its worth acknowledging people were counting on saving us from Trump, lied to us about Joe and let senile-ass Trump coast to a second term. It just is, friends. --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Maniac64 05/18/25 2:40:41 PM #282: |
ChaosTonyV4 posted... Its MAGA-cult like behavior to just wave this shit away and not be fucking pissed off at thisMAGA behavior would be continuing to say that Biden is not only fine, he is better than ever. That other politicians wish they were as sharp as he is. I don't see anybody denying Biden's mental decline at this point and haven't since the election. This is more "well that sucks but it doesn't seem like there were any good options." If they had come out and said Biden was in bad shape Rs would have been demanding he be forced out of office and not fit to be president. They didn't put us in this position imo. Forcing Biden out would likely have led to this exact same position because voters were going to blame Dems for the global economic struggles and dismiss any worry about a 2nd Trump term as fear mongering. --- "Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Inviso 05/18/25 2:43:56 PM #283: |
I'll say this: Joe Biden may very well be in cognitive decline. Had he run and won in 2024, we could very well have become a vegetable and started shitting his pants in front of world leaders at EVER opportunity. And yet, that's who the voters chose to be their candidate. That's who they chose when we had the primary in 2020. Massive field with progressive candidates and a LOT of young candidates, and at the end of the day, the Democratic primary voters (who, mind you, should be the most enthusiastic and dedicated of voters compared to the general populous) selected the oldest fucking candidate in American history to helm the ship. And he managed to beat Trump. Now, it's easy to look at that and say "Well, Biden should have stepped down and let someone else run" or "We should have had a primary"...but understand that the first scenario is effectively a slap in the face to the primary voters who selected him over all those (far superior) candidates in 2020, and would leave them embittered and jilted (perhaps not unlike what we saw in 2024). And in the latter scenario, if you are the incumbent party and you're running to primary your own incumbent candidate, you're not sending the message that BIDEN is bad. You're sending the message that THE DEMOCRATS are bad. And in that scenario, why would a voter in the general election vote for a "change" candidate from the party in power, when they can just vote for the "change" candidate from the opposition party? Basically, I've said it before and I'll say it again. When Trump does all his stupid shit and demonstrates senility and complete incompetence, the right wing of this country (media and voters) don't care. They either don't acknowledge Trump's failings, or they will defend him to the death and put a spin on his actions to justify them. As such, the GOP only needs to defend against attacks from the left, which allows them to go hard on the attack and demonize everything to the left of "round up migrants and send them to an El Salvadoran torture prison". And they pull the Overton window further and further to the right and make it so even the most moderate and sensible policies are now radical leftist socialism. If you are someone who nominally disagrees with the GOP platform and you are not all-in on the party that opposes them, even actively attacking them and highlighting their flaws...then yeah, you're carrying water for the GOP and doing their job for them. You're allowing the Dems to be weakened and allowing the far right to get stronger. And though morally, I'm sure you feel that you're righteous for demonstrating free thought, rather than the cultlike mindset of the GOP's base, you're not sending a message to the Dems that they need to do better. You're sending a message that actually they need to do worse, because apparently "worse" is what this country actually wants. --- Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier. Inviso ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Inviso 05/18/25 2:46:15 PM #284: |
ChaosTonyV4 posted... Its MAGA-cult like behavior to just wave this shit away and not be fucking pissed off at this Yes. Exactly. And we NEED that shit. People are being ripped away from families and from the only home they've ever known, and shipped off to a prison that they will NEVER leave, because Democrats/Liberals/Progressives/Left-Wingers/Whatever-The-Fuck You Wanna Call Them would rather sit on their high horse of moral righteousness than politic the way MAGA does. --- Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier. Inviso ... Copied to Clipboard!
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foolm0r0n 05/18/25 2:47:00 PM #285: |
v_charon posted... Polling also showed Harris winning from what I recall and we see how that turned out.It was revealed that their internal polling showed massive losses. Anyway, even though Tony was right, it's stupid to expect an apology from people in a political discussion topic. No one here owes anything to anyone else, and an apology is just words. Any vindication needs to be about doing better next time, because you seriously need to do better. Thorn posted... amplifying the dementia shit was just plain unhelpful because we were basically at a point where it was Biden or no one so attacking him was just detrimental to the causeThis specifically is the idea that hurt the Ds the most in 2016 and 2024, and apparently it's alive and well. This is what you need to eradicate from modern liberalism. This idea that we can just dig our heads in the sands and that will make it easier to vote for a bad candidate. News flash, Trumpism is the ultimate head-in-the-sand philosophy. The more ignorant you choose to be, the more euphoric that campaign makes you feel. The dumbest Trumpers feel like absolute gods, in a way that you or I will never experience outside of maybe opioids. Every single liberal you know that stuck their head in the sand for Hillary and Biden, is now a Trumper. You will never win them back with ignorance. The ONLY way to improve is to have good candidates. That's it. --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance ... Copied to Clipboard!
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foolm0r0n 05/18/25 2:49:17 PM #286: |
Maniac64 posted... MAGA behavior would be continuing to say that Biden is not only fine, he is better than ever. That other politicians wish they were as sharp as he is.They literally said that before he dropped out lol --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChaosTonyV4 05/18/25 2:58:26 PM #287: |
foolm0r0n posted... It was revealed that their internal polling showed massive losses. Yeah, credibility of the Democratic Presidency apparatus was measurably damaged by Joe and the lies that he was sharp. At that point in the election, Kamala was our best shot, but she didnt break from the guy nobody trusted (and would you ever expect a Democratic VP to risk winning at the cost of disrespecting the guy who picked them?) Anyway, even though Tony was right, it's stupid to expect an apology from people in a political discussion topic. No one here owes anything to anyone else, and an apology is just words. If this was Reddit, maybe, but most of us have known each other for 15-20 years. Hell, Id even be ok with a not-sorry acknowledgement that we are in this position because people trusted Dems too much at face value instead of demanding better. This specifically is the idea that hurt the Ds the most in 2016 and 2024, and apparently it's alive and well. This is what you need to eradicate from modern liberalism. Too many people here are ok with candidates who can lose BECAUSE people ask better of them, and it kills me. Why not candidates that just do better? ********* Looking ahead to 2028, he has his weaknesses, but I think Pete could be the guy. Thoughts? --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Maniac64 05/18/25 3:01:07 PM #288: |
foolm0r0n posted... They literally said that before he dropped out lolTony was talking about now. And the reaction to the new story. They said that then because they felt it was what they had to say to win. Nobody is still saying that (at least nowhere I'm seeing). --- "Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Maniac64 05/18/25 3:04:31 PM #289: |
Dems not doing better is absolutely a big problem. One that I feel people in this topic point out a lot. Most elected Dems suck. And even a lot of the ones that talk the talk don't walk the walk. ChaosTonyV4 posted... Looking ahead to 2028, he has his weaknesses, but I think Pete could be the guy. Thoughts?I'd like to believe it but I don't trust our country to elect a gay man. I hope Pete gets the chance though and crushes it. --- "Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris ... Copied to Clipboard!
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foolm0r0n 05/18/25 3:06:48 PM #290: |
https://bsky.app/profile/donmoyn.bsky.social/post/3lph2ppywck2j Nanis needs to learn this about American zionism, which is actually rooted in anti-semitism, because it holds up Jews as a lightning rod of conflict to distract from the nationalists (typically Christian) who are creating the conflict. Project 2025 is a recent example, but this has always been the value of Israel to American nationalists. --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Xeybozn 05/18/25 3:28:04 PM #291: |
ChaosTonyV4 posted... Looking ahead to 2028, he has his weaknesses, but I think Pete could be the guy. Thoughts?Maybe? He seems like a decent guy, and he's definitely more charismatic than the most of the other names getting thrown around. I'm just a bit skeptical because of how thin his resume is. The Democrats have been hyping him up for like a decade now, but his biggest accomplishment in that time is finishing a distant 5th place in the 2020 primary. There's just not much there to show whether he can win an election and/or govern well; it's all just vibes. --- Congrats to 2020 GotD Guru champ azuarc! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChaosTonyV4 05/18/25 3:54:14 PM #292: |
Maniac64 posted... Tony was talking about now. And the reaction to the new story. They said that then because they felt it was what they had to say to win. I was saying it's MAGA-cult to go "We don't care, MOVE ON", not that people were still calling Joe sharp now. Also not going to continue this line of discussion when it's clear I'm not gonna get what I was looking for lol, but I feel like I need to address this: Inviso posted... Now, it's easy to look at that and say "Well, Biden should have stepped down and let someone else run" or "We should have had a primary"...but understand that the first scenario is effectively a slap in the face to the primary voters who selected him over all those (far superior) candidates in 2020, and would leave them embittered and jilted (perhaps not unlike what we saw in 2024). When you said this before Joe dropped out, I thought you were just overconfident Trump would lose, but STILL saying it now makes no fucking sense. A President HAS to run for reelection, in your words, because it's a slap to the face of his voters from the previous primary if he doesn't? We're supposed to put the feelings of 19 million voters in a primary election from 4 years ago over common sense? By this logic, those 19 million voters are to blame for where we are now. And in the latter scenario, if you are the incumbent party and you're running to primary your own incumbent candidate, you're not sending the message that BIDEN is bad. You're sending the message that THE DEMOCRATS are bad. And in that scenario, why would a voter in the general election vote for a "change" candidate from the party in power, when they can just vote for the "change" candidate from the opposition party? "The correct way to disagree with the party is to vote for the opposition party" sure is a statement. Xeybozn posted... Maybe? He seems like a decent guy, and he's definitely more charismatic than the most of the other names getting thrown around. I'm just a bit skeptical because of how thin his resume is. The Democrats have been hyping him up for like a decade now, but his biggest accomplishment in that time is finishing a distant 5th place in the 2020 primary. There's just not much there to show whether he can win an election and/or govern well; it's all just vibes. I agree, but we live in a completely different world post 2016. Vibes are all that matters now, and if you watched the Pete vs 25 "undecided" voters Jubilee, I think he cooked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE1f3n_n9UA Also I fucking HATE Andrew Schultz, I think he's a terrible comic and a total buffoon, but Pete went on his podcast and absolutely sweet-talked all these "We're Team Trump because he's cool" guys and they were basically fawning over him throughout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgx7GvYSq64 Pretty convincing stuff tbh, I think effective podcast and youtube visits were a significant reason normies open to Republicanism started liking weirdo JD Vance, and Peter absolutely CLEARS him on the schmooze factor. --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Bitto 05/18/25 4:10:38 PM #293: |
Petes fine for the reasons you listed. But I really want it to be AOC. Pete is a bit too mainstream politician and AOC is perfect as a rebellious and compassionate candidate. The Trump-AOC voter is real and massive. --- https://i.imgur.com/9sOWQAf.jpeg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChaosTonyV4 05/18/25 4:21:31 PM #294: |
Im not sure if AOC has the crossover appeal yet. If she can pull those Bernie crowds sans Bernie, or crush it on a bro podcast, I may get excited. Also after the Supreme Court ruled that Trump cant use the Alien Enemies Act to justify his deportations, basically every Republican influencer is openly telling him to ignore them. https://twitter.com/esjesjesj/status/1924131684728856922?s=46&t=v9nzYLLBIiNYrqldFs9NWQ Were at a tipping point, here. If youve got Republican family members who support, you know, the Constitution, maybe now is the time to start sending them screenshots of talking heads saying this to get them preemptively against it, before Trump listens to them and they fall in line. --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Nanis23 05/18/25 4:24:34 PM #295: |
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/18/politics/joe-biden-prostate-cancer That sounds bad --- wololo ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Blaziken 05/18/25 4:29:27 PM #296: |
ChaosTonyV4 posted... "The correct way to disagree with the party is to vote for the opposition party" sure is a statement. I'm not saying it's CORRECT. I'm saying that logically, if you are a low-information voter (which I would argue applies to the vast majority of the electorate, not necessarily anyone actively posting in a politics topic like this one) who is unhappy with the current administration and wants a change, why would you look at the two parties' candidates and think: "I'm unhappy, but I'm going to vote for the incumbent party because THIS TIME the candidate promised change" as opposed to "I'm unhappy, so I'm going to vote for the opposition party, because surely the problem is the incumbent party (and whatever ideology I associate with them) being bad, not the general institutional drawbacks of our political system". I'm NOT saying we shouldn't expect better and want better from our politicians. Where I think your mindset fails is defining "better". Because what YOU consider "better" is not what the majority of Democratic primary voters consider "better". And vice versa. So the thinking of "Just field better candidates", while accurate, also requires some acceptance of MY mindset as well, in that WHOEVER the primary voters select, even if it's not who you want, is still BETTER than anyone on the GOP side of things, and needs to be bolstered, rather than torn down. One of the reasons I say this specifically is because of the whole David Hogg controversy right now. When David Hogg was elected to his current position, it seemed like that was a big step for the party: putting a young person in a position of power and really working to replace the old guard. And yet, in the wake of that election, what I saw from a lot of tuned-in leftists was "Fuck David Hogg, he's just a neoliberal shill." I'd wager you yourself are not the biggest fan of David Hogg either, because of how much of his national profile revolves around gun control, and how outspoken you've been about being AGAINST gun control. And hell, just look at what you're saying now: you're pushing that Pete Buttigieg is this amazing candidate (and I'm not disagreeing with you). But I remember back in 2020 when you hated him for his policy positions, and I expect you'd criticize him again if he became the newest candidate and those same policy positions came up again. But this is kind of the problem I have with the simplistic thinking of Democratic politicians just needing to be better; even in a perfect world where progressives got their ideal candidate, it still feels like that mentality of constant criticism will torpedo literally anyone (not to mention the fact that in that perfect world, you've then have to deal with moderates being the ones complaining). --- Inviso thinks all starters should be Fire/Fighting. http://i.imgur.com/oOSm64C.gif ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LightningStrikes 05/18/25 5:15:54 PM #297: |
v_charon posted... Polling also showed Harris winning from what I recall and we see how that turned out. Not really. The polls on average were neck-and-neck on the day. Which means a Trump electoral college victory. Accounting for margin of error, the polls were basically spot on. Anyway on Bidens suitability to run this from just today is a must-read: https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2025/may/18/biden-book-health-original-sin Basically Tony was right, Biden was a huge liability and it was being hidden from view. Now unlike Tony, I dont really blame anybody for thinking Biden would have had an advantage, there is still the conventional wisdom of the incumbency advantage after all. However an incumbent hasnt increased vote share since 2004 and has not won since 2012 so its fair to call that a thing of the past for now at least. Also, Im not sure anybody could have won given what was going on worldwide on 2024 and economic conditions in the states. What Harriss job actually was was to make it close and keep places like New Jersey and Virginia out of play which she did. --- I just decided to change this sig. Blaaaaaaargh azuarc ... Copied to Clipboard!
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swordz9 05/18/25 5:20:12 PM #298: |
Biden even in severe decline is better than Trump ever was at any point in his life so we still lost big time as a country ... Copied to Clipboard!
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foolm0r0n 05/18/25 5:25:52 PM #299: |
Blaziken posted... why would you look at the two parties' candidates and think: "I'm unhappy, but I'm going to vote for the incumbent party because THIS TIME the candidate promised change" as opposed to "I'm unhappy, so I'm going to vote for the opposition party, because surely the problem is the incumbent party (and whatever ideology I associate with them) being bad, not the general institutional drawbacks of our political system".You would actually choose not to vote, which is still the plurality (and sometimes majority) option in the US, and consists of nearly 100% of the voters that each party is vying for. And not voting IS expressing blame at the institutional flaws of the political system, rather than individual parties or candidates. "Democrats doing better" means capturing more non-voters, by showing that good candidates exist and can win. --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance ... Copied to Clipboard!
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foolm0r0n 05/18/25 5:27:34 PM #300: |
Also, the next D candidate needs to have been arrested multiple times at protests. Pete ain't it. He's an employee not a leader. --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance ... Copied to Clipboard!
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