Poll of the Day > Baseball is a lot like a turn based RPG

(+) Yeah! (+)

Pitcher selects pitch, batter has to react like it's Paper Mario

You get some really epic battles and home runs are cool

I don't mind baseball but "epic" is not a word that belongs within 100 feet of it.

I'm not a baseball fan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMcfzTTKTaQ

I've played baseball as a kid and adult, its really the only team sport I've played and I have to say its the most boring sport to watch live, watch on television, and play.

americas favorite pastime is hella boring as fuck

The main difference between baseball and turn-based RPGs is that I've actually enjoyed turn-based RPGs.



ConfusedTorchic posted...

americas favorite pastime is hella boring as fuck

The funniest thing is that it hasn't even really been "America's pastime" for decades.

The NFL passed it a long time ago. Then the NBA passed it for a while. That was the whole point with them pushing the McGwire/Sosa home run chase back in the late 90s - because ratings were heading into the toilet prior to that point and then suddenly they had something people found interesting and they desperately wanted to try and spin it into getting some of their audience back.

I think the last time I saw stats baseball ranked 4th behind football, basketball, and NASCAR in the US in terms of popularity. And if you go by watch-time it's something like football being watched three times as much as baseball is.

It's like when they call the Dallas Cowboys "America's Team", when it really hasn't been that since the 1970s.

I've long mused about a turn-based NFL RPG game, with stats and unique abilities of each player. Can't figure out how that would not be a total mess, though.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It's like when they call the Dallas Cowboys "America's Team", when it really hasn't been that since the 1970s.

IIRC, some announcer called them that out of nowhere during a game in 1979, and it stuck. Which is really weird, namely because the Steelers had 4 Super Bowl wins at that point, so how Dallas of all teams got that moniker and not Pittsburgh was super odd.

For those saying it's boring, what do you think of turn-based RPGs?

Not everything has to be constant action.

Not really. Turn-based RPGs are actually fun.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

I've long mused about a turn-based NFL RPG game, with stats and unique abilities of each player. Can't figure out how that would not be a total mess, though.

I feel like that might actually have been a thing. Or something like that, anyway.

But I might also just be thinking of Base Wars in the murky bubblings of my brain.

Or maybe I'm mixing it up with Blood Bowl or similar derivatives.



CyborgSage00x0 posted...

IIRC, some announcer called them that out of nowhere during a game in 1979, and it stuck. Which is really weird, namely because the Steelers had 4 Super Bowl wins at that point, so how Dallas of all teams got that moniker and not Pittsburgh was super odd.

I always just assumed it was because they were one of the two standard teams for the Thanksgiving games every year. It was just them and the Lions for literally decades, until the other teams all complained and the NFL eventually added a third game with a rotating line-up.

In that sense, I suppose you could argue a possible hypothetical universe where the Lions became "America's Team" instead. But that didn't happen in our universe because the Lions suck.



Damn_Underscore posted...

For those saying it's boring, what do you think of turn-based RPGs?

I'm fine with them. Whether it's full strategic turn-based like early Final Fantasy games, or even weird hybrid turn-based like KotOR was (where it's basically a turn-based RPG disguised as an action hack-and-slash).

For me the narrative of the game always matters more than the gameplay, especially when it comes to RPGs. So if the story and characters are good I'm generally willing to give the gameplay a try regardless of what it's like, so long as it isn't completely broken or terrible. I'd happily take a Telltale-esque game with almost no combat gameplay over a game that's all stats and simulated dice rolls but no real framework to hang on it, even if it was the most engaging stat-based combat ever.

I mainly started out with Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy in the NES era. Stuck with FF until it started to fall off in the PS2 era, around which point I was shifting more towards things like Suikoden and .hack.

I eventually sort of lost interest in JRPGs in general though - as I used to put it, they became too "Japanese" for me (FFX-2 and Kingdom Hearts 2 being pretty good examples of what I meant by that). Which is why I started shifting my preference more towards WRPGs like Baldur's Gate and KotOR (and later Mass Effect and Dragon Age), and I just sort of gravitated more towards action RPGs, because that's the model most Western RPGs tended to prefer. But even then you still have the occasional games like Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2.

I've actually been playing through Mass Effect recently (I'm on ME3 after two runs each through ME1 and ME2). Once I finish it I'm probably switching to Baldur's Gate 3 for a few runs.

I am not watching any today but I'm sure I will a bunch. My niece just started softball and I've been practicing with her so I've actually played more the past two weeks than I have the past twenty years. We got tickets to a pirates and a wild things (frontier league) game already coming up. I'm a Phillies fan though so I'll see them when they come around. Annual p00p series

No. I prefer August-September since the games are better to bet on then.

Its pretty boring. I can do stories about baseball, but I don't find the game itself interesting.

Damn_Underscore posted...

For those saying it's boring, what do you think of turn-based RPGs?

Big fan. One of my favorite genres of video games. If you tacked on a full rpg combat/progression system and story to baseball, i'd probably find it significantly more interesting.

I have only once seen a live baseball game in my life while visiting the USA, in 2006, Atlanta Braves vs Florida...Marlins I think was their name at that time. The Braves won 1-0, so as the scoreline implies, it wasn't a particularly exciting match, but when it's the only one you've ever been to, it works. My Georgian brother in law explained to me that the way it works is the two teams don't play each other once, but half a dozen times over several days. That might explain why both sides seemed fairly indifferent over how the one game turned out.

Passed by football and basketball (and NASCAR even)?

Now while I do see that "baseball is boring" I also don't see any of those other things as significantly more exciting. I guess it's just not being a sports fan... But seems like if excitement was the goal there's no reason to choose any one of them over the other.

It feels like it mostly imo because outside of pitch clock there is no time and actions determine when the game ends.

Yeah I love baseball.

VioletZer0 posted...

I don't mind baseball but "epic" is not a word that belongs within 100 feet of it.

I'm guessing you've never seen a HR in person at an MLB game. I've been to a lot of sporting events and seen a lot of big plays. Nothing is more epic than a HR, especially a game winning one. Someone striking a little ball thrown close to 100 mph 400+ ft with a small wooden bat is pretty damn cool.

Most people that hate baseball have zero understanding of even the most basic elements of it. It's definitely a game that the more you understand about it, the more enjoyable it is. Something like basketball or soccer has zero depth by comparison and is much easier for someone that doesn't know anything to sit down and watch it or pick it up and play it

Man hits ball with bat really hard is not that deep.

Although I can't say anything because I am a motorsports fan and motorsports has been boring for a long time.

Most of motorsports is arguing about rules.

Baseball is like yardwork. Exicited for it in the April but over it come August.

OhhhJa posted...

I'm guessing you've never seen a HR in person at an MLB game. I've been to a lot of sporting events and seen a lot of big plays. Nothing is more epic than a HR, especially a game winning one. Someone striking a little ball thrown close to 100 mph 400+ ft with a small wooden bat is pretty damn cool.

Most people that hate baseball have zero understanding of even the most basic elements of it. It's definitely a game that the more you understand about it, the more enjoyable it is. Something like basketball or soccer has zero depth by comparison and is much easier for someone that doesn't know anything to sit down and watch it or pick it up and play it

Most of the excitement of baseball comes down to the high stakes of each pitch. Given how low scores tend to be, every pitch has a small chance of being the one that secures the game, based on factors that are virtually inscrutable to anyone watching. It's actually a lot like gambling in that regard, with each successive pitch you watch being another spin of the roulette in hopes of that big jackpot/home run.

I can appreciate the skill that goes into it, and can understand why it can be exciting, but it's not something that really appeals to me.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Or maybe I'm mixing it up with Blood Bowl or similar derivatives.

Yeah, Blood Bowl-like I think was what inspired the thought originally. I was thinking each player has like, strength, speed, etc. stats, and then could spec into like, better blocking ability, agility, 50/50 ball catchability, etc. Which to me, all sounds cool on paper, but would probably never balance well.

But, since actual NFL plays like a TBS game anyways, I figured there must be *some* way to make it work.

I always just assumed it was because they were one of the two standard teams for the Thanksgiving games every year.

Yeah, that's likely it.

Baseball is the only pro sport to actually try to clean up its umps/refs mistakes. If you really want boring how about the number of 0-0 ties in soccer, with their fake flops and fake injuries stopping games. Basketball not much better as foul calls are way too inconsistent, star players get all the calls while a rookie gets none. American football is a joke and has been fixed by the gambling syndicates for decades.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy my Celtics, Bruins, and Miami Dolphins games, but there's nothing like a baseball team that can pitch well, hit well, run and steal bases well, and play elite defense, (like last night's Red Sox/Rangers game).

Of course I honestly expected a lot of sports disinterest/hate from gamers. the two just don't mingle much.

OhhhJa posted...

Nothing is more epic than a HR

Most things in life are more epic than a HR.

And I have seen a HR in person at an MLB game.



OhhhJa posted...

Most people that hate baseball have zero understanding of even the most basic elements of it.

Or, you know, they just don't like the same things you do.

I understand Dark Souls. I understand why other people love Dark Souls. If I really buckled down and tried to play through a game honing my skills and looking for optimal ways to build my character, I'd probably be able to beat Dark Souls. None of this really changes the fact that I still hate Dark Souls.

I've played and beaten games like Dragon Age and GreedFall on their highest difficulty levels (for the Achievments). I understand the underlying mechanics and necessarily playstyle well enough to beat it. And yet given the choice, if I'm doing an extra run for fun, I avoid those settings like the plague and just play on the easiest possible difficulty, because that's what gives me the experiences I want from gaming better than the alternative.

Understanding something doesn't automatically equate to a love for that thing. Plenty of people find baseball boring no matter how well they understand it, because they don't give a shit about the things you find interesting or exciting.

The same goes for every sport. The fact that some people love basketball or soccer and other people find them incredibly boring and pointless doesn't mean the latter group don't understand those sports, it just means they don't necessarily value the things those sports focus on.

Considering we're on a site where most people barely give a shit about sports in general, let alone specific ones, it's not surprising that most people don't really value the deeper elements of one of the more boring sports. It's about one step above saying NASCAR is boring because it's just people turning left (which is true, but also vastly underselling things).

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Or, you know, they just don't like the same things you do.

What I meant to say is people that say it's boring. And yeah, it's always someone who doesn't understand it whatsoever every single time. I don't know of many other things like baseball where there seems to be this very proportionate visceral hatred and simultaneous ignorance. It's like someone claiming they hate rpgs but have literally never played one.

Not to say someone can't understand baseball and dislike it, but I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who said baseball is boring that could even tell me what the most basic elements/rules of the game are. If you're gonna profess your opinion of something, at least have some surface level understanding of it. Most people that say baseball is boring have only watched it while walking through the room to go get a snack from the pantry

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It's about one step above saying NASCAR is boring because it's just people turning left (which is true, but also vastly underselling things).

Sure, I agree with that analogy but truthfully NASCAR is a LOT simpler than baseball

OhhhJa posted...

What I meant to say is people that say it's boring. And yeah, it's always someone who doesn't understand it whatsoever every single time. I don't know of many other things like baseball where there seems to be this very proportionate visceral hatred and simultaneous ignorance. It's like someone claiming they hate rpgs but have literally never played one

That's because no one is going to drill down into the complexities of something if they find the surface level boring as hell.

Even if you forced every one of those people to learn about all of the details and stats in baseball, it's not like you'd magically convert them all into fans. The vast majority of them would still hate it. Many of them would probably hate it more, because you forced them to study something they had no interest in.

In the same vein, if you took everyone who hated RPGs and found them boring, and forced most of them to learn strategy, tactics, optimal builds, resource management, timing, and all of the other things that RPG fans tend to love about them, most of them would still find them boring. Because those aren't necessarily the things they want out of gaming - which is why they found RPGs boring in the first place. Like I said, I beat GreedFall on the highest difficulty in order to get an achievement, which required me to learn the deeper mechanics of the game in an attempt to master it. In the process, I had a far better understanding of the game than I did the first time I played it (where I played it on the easiest setting and mostly just blew through it). But I had more fun in my first run. I enjoyed it more the less I understood it.

Or to put all of this another way, baseball fans don't love baseball because they understand it. They understand it because they love it. Their interest in the sport leads them to study the deeper nuances of the game. Love may lead people to want to understand it better, but understanding it better isn't necessarily going to lead to love.

It is possible to fully understand something and still hate it. It is possible to only casually understand something and hate it enough to know you don't really want to learn any more about it. It's also possible to have little more than a surface-level understanding of something and still know enough to know it's never going to appeal to you no matter how hard you try to understand every intricacy of it. All of these views are valid.

I understand many sports well enough to play them. I still find them boring as hell to watch.

But also, my not giving a shit about your sport doesn't invalidate your own love for it. You are perfectly entitled to enjoy things I don't. Nor is it your role in life to validate your own sense of self by trying to preach to everyone you meet that they should also love the thing you love, and get frustrated when they don't. Their dislike for baseball is not a personal flaw or lack within them. It just means they enjoy different things than you do.

Like it or not, there are plenty of justifiable reasons for people to find baseball boring, pointless, lame, or whatever else, regardless of their level of understanding. Just like how most of us will never understand or relate to the Canadian passion for Curling.



OhhhJa posted...

Sure, I agree with that analogy but truthfully NASCAR is a LOT simpler than baseball

People say it's boring all the time. And yeah, it's almost always someone who doesn't understand it whatsoever every single time. I don't know of many other things like NASCAR where there seems to be this very proportionate visceral hatred and simultaneous ignorance.





...yeah.

The thing is, there is a lot of complexity to NASCAR (and I say this as someone who isn't a fan). Lots of elements the average person doesn't even think about, or bother to understand. They basically go "lol rednecks driving around in circles" and shut down all critical thinking or attempts to understand anything about it. Which would be the exact same argument you're making about baseball.

But the thing is, learning about all of those things won't necessarily make you a NASCAR fan. It might not even make you a racing fan as a whole (since things like indy racing and F1 are incredibly different from NASCAR in multiple ways). You might become the world's foremost expert on everything there is to know about NASCAR and still find it boring. All that would really change is that your opinion might go from "lol dumb" to "It's actually pretty nuanced and interesting, but I still don't enjoy it."

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Curling

This is the opposite situation for me. I don't understand much of anything about curling but it looks fun as fuck

OhhhJa posted...

I'm guessing you've never seen a HR in person at an MLB game. I've been to a lot of sporting events and seen a lot of big plays. Nothing is more epic than a HR, especially a game winning one. Someone striking a little ball thrown close to 100 mph 400+ ft with a small wooden bat is pretty damn cool.

Most people that hate baseball have zero understanding of even the most basic elements of it. It's definitely a game that the more you understand about it, the more enjoyable it is. Something like basketball or soccer has zero depth by comparison and is much easier for someone that doesn't know anything to sit down and watch it or pick it up and play it

I don't remember if I've ever been to a game ending homerun game but I've definitely been to a slugfest. Even Ricky Henderson hit a home run that game.

Rickey Henderson hit a lot of home runs. Its more impressive that you went to a game that he played in lol. But he also played for a long time

Damn_Underscore posted...

Rickey Henderson hit a lot of home runs. Its more impressive that you went to a game that he played in lol. But he also played for a long time

He was in his 40s then if I remember correctly. It was towards the end of his career.