Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic Episode 446: The Empire Strikes Back

(+) Yeah! (+)

Dancedreamer posted...

To be fair, I don't think Netanyahu was EVER going to get a ceasefire deal done. He's not interested in one. Why would he be? He doesn't care about the hostages, he doesn't even want to eliminate Hamas. He wants to stay in power and kill people in Gaza and take as much land as he can.

Biden risks political pressure, Trump gives a blank check(Both figuratively and literally). For him I think it was much easier to do a genocide with Trump coming to power. And to be protected from future backlash.

Fwiw based on age demographic analysis I expect things to return to something more normal if we make it to the next election in four years.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Damn that's crazy maybe she should have known it was the chief concern among voters and let everyone know about it exhaustively.

80% of the ads that i saw of hers were about how she's going to force grocery prices down and reduce taxes on people making under $400k/yr.

But sure keep on victim blaming if it makes you feel better.

v_charon posted...

I'm pretty much convinced people who voted for him don't know what this means whatsoever. If he actually goes through with it, they're gonna be in for a surprise.

Also, for the record I'm happy to report that my workday was actually stress free. I disassociated with enough former friends that I was never harassed at all about the election results. The few right wing friends I still speak with were respectful. The one I was most concerned with did approach my area first thing in the morning, which I feared would lead to something unpleasant, but he seemed to only actually be checking on how I was doing. Then he just asked about Venom 3, because other than being the work liberal my other title is movie guy. I appreciated it, and it gave me a little hope that maybe not every Trump voter is out of reach entirely.

The only comment he made was actually just "I would have been fine if Kamala won, I just want to not pay $8 a pound for ground beef". So yeah, the actual sort of ignorance to how things work that probably put this guy back in office. I feel the best course of action though if people really want to engage Trump voters and see if there's a way to win them over is to wait a while for now. He won't have all those gifts Obama left him this time around.

Yeah well...grocery prices might drop some if we just stop having food safety standards i guess.

But yeah the tarriff stuff is gonna be really bad for the one thing NOT really hit too bad by inflation, consumer goods.

So thatll be fun for those idiots.

Kinglicious posted...

Related to the economy is the job market.
It's absolute garbage right now and has been for a few years.

This is a great example of the average voter.

They don't realize that inflation negatively correlates with unemployment. There is literally a lever that you can pull towards inflation, or towards unemployment. It's always one or the other.

But they expect both. Why? Because of decades of money printing keynesianism that delivered both, and promised it would last forever, ignoring the frequent catastrophic generation-defining crashes that happened every 10ish years. They think those are just some president's fault.

So you basically can never win an election against a keynesian. It's just way too popular. In every country in the world.

Imagine you gave someone a choice to have great prices and employment for themselves for the next 5 years, but after that they would lose everything, and all their kids would be screwed for their whole lives. 95% would take it. That's a fact. This is not a logical or educational issue, it is moral and emotional. We're addicted to keynesianism.

ivysnow posted...

when they talk about our economy being "good", they're mostly talking about the fact that the biden admin mitigated a serious recession and high unemployment very quickly at the cost of a period of high inflation. but that's too abstract for the typical person to intuit without research.

This is it. It's objectively a bad economy, but relatively a miraculously great economy. Very very simple concept.

I actually find it super easy to explain this to the people: American Exceptionalism.

Compare our stats with Germany, UK, Japan, Brazil, India, China, Russia. ANYONE who looks at those stats would instantly feel immense patriotic pride, regardless of party or class or educational level.

Politicians think Americans only care about ourselves. That's not exactly true, we only care about winning or being the best. That means ignoring others most of the time, but in this case we really needed to see how much better we were compared to the world.

foolm0r0n posted...

This is it. It's objectively a bad economy, but relatively a miraculously great economy. Very very simple concept.

I actually find it super easy to explain this to the people: American Exceptionalism.

Compare our stats with Germany, UK, Japan, Brazil, India, China, Russia. ANYONE who looks at those stats would instantly feel immense patriotic pride, regardless of party or class or educational level.

Politicians think Americans only care about ourselves. That's not exactly true, we only care about winning or being the best. That means ignoring others most of the time, but in this case we really needed to see how much better we were compared to the world.

Right and this is whats tricky for a politician who is currently governing - Harris knows Bidens plans did an almost impossibly good job mitigating damage.

But because things are objectively bleh its almost impossible to sell it and Harris definitrly didnt appreciate it to the degree the american people were gonna need her to apparently.

Nah the average American absolutely only cares about themselves. Its why they resonate so strongly with the President who also only cares about himself and not a single other soul in the world. Im still angry and I kinda dont even feel bad saying I hope anyone who voted for him is brought to financial ruin. I want nothing positive for anyone who would think that absolute ghoul should be President again

Eddv posted...

But because things are objectively bleh its almost impossible to sell it

It's not, I just explained how

swordz9 posted...

Nah the average American absolutely only cares about themselves

Which is why they would definitely want to know why they are the best

They got a funny way of showing it by electing one of the biggest losers of all time. The only thing hes the best at is being a colossal whiny rapist racist loser crybaby and thats not something any American should want representing them

swordz9 posted...

They got a funny way of showing it by electing one of the biggest losers of all time. The only thing hes the best at is being a colossal whiny rapist racist loser crybaby and thats not something any American should want representing them

Trumpers on Obamacare and Social Security will love it when those are cut. They will win even harder when their $50 Walmart trash smartphone suddenly costs $100.

Theyll still blame the Dems, but I hope before they leave this world they realize it was actually because they voted for Trump. Cant wait for all those construction, sanitation and food jobs to open up to millions of Americans who obviously want them so badly when we deport all the illegals. I mean there are just so many Americans who want to clean toilets and pick fruit all day after all. Really builds character I hear

swordz9 posted...

Theyll still blame the Dems, but I hope before they leave this world they realize it was actually because they voted for Trump. Cant wait for all those construction, sanitation and food jobs to open up to millions of Americans who obviously want them so badly when we deport all the illegals. I mean there are just so many Americans who want to clean toilets and pick fruit all day after all. Really builds character I hear

The ones voting to deport illegals are the legal immigrants themselves. The same minorities the Dems think they understand. Money spent housing refugees should be spent on our education and transportation. We also have a housing shortage. Can't take care of other countries before we take care of ourselves.

When I say "illegal" you immediately think of that guy cleaning pools or working at Burger King with a green card or naturalized citizenship. That's a Dem messaging problem.

When Trump says he's deporting people that guy working at Burger King doesn't see himself getting deported.

Cant take care of ourselves if the rich are purposefully preventing it from happening either. They want everyone else to be poor and stupid so theyre stuck as slavery working class. Theres no fixing this shit until we undo awful decisions that got us here like Citizens United, not taxing the fuck outta the rich, etc. Theres basically no hope left at all for America on this path. It sold itself out to greed and the American Dream is as dead as the Founding Fathers

We'll see where you end up at the end of your grief curve, but if you land at defeated anger, like millions and millions of liberals since 2016, then you were never gonna be part of the solution anyways. See ya in the next life.

Eddv posted...

Harris knows Bidens plans did an almost impossibly good job mitigating damage

They didn't, though. Because there was no follow through. We are in basically the same spot as 2020 and this is without Covid to blame for it

Preventing a complete collapse is better than not but to me the policies were just kicking the can down the road without the proper follow up

And now we kicked the can into Trump who is gonna crush it and totally destroy the economy-- but continuing the Biden plans doesn't fix anything it's just the government artificially propping up the economy while our debt spirals out of control.

People would rather believe a lie that's different than a lie that's the same

I dont believe in a next life, but if one does exist I dont want mine to be on this planet!

Also I think Granzon understands immigrant mentality better than most of you. I mean just looking at the voting splits will tell you that. Probably a guy to engage with if you want to understand stuff-- be condescending and dismissive if you just want to feel superior and that's why you're in these topics

Lopen posted...

We are in basically the same spot as 2020 and this is without Covid to blame for it

Nah, we can blame the JPY carry trade crisis which destroyed the world economy a few months ago, remember? Plus 1 or 2 other crises since then, which I forgot about.

They're the same crisis

Im gonna be honest, I think people should probably wait until the full results are in before doing any detailed kind of post-mortem because they are literally still counting the votes.

There will be plenty of time for analysis. You already have people going heres what to do or who to run in 2028 when we dont even fully know what happened this time let alone what 2028 will look like. Similarly from an international perspective I already see people going heres what this means for Labour in the next UK election! and its like the NEXT US presidential election is due to happen before that one does!

So yeah all very important things to think about but lets maybe hold off until there is more solid information out there.

Lopen posted...

Also I think Granzon understands immigrant mentality better than most of you. I mean just looking at the voting splits will tell you that. Probably a guy to engage with if you want to understand stuff-- be condescending and dismissive if you just want to feel superior and that's why you're in these topics

I have heard first hand experiences from people and also been looking at the New York votes by county. There are warning signs that people are fed up with having to support "illegals". Got friends and family in NY that voted Trump because they don't want their small businesses to get robbed, or run into homeless encampments that drive traffic away. These friends and family are actually first generation immigrants that have been here for decades. They also escaped Mao's Cultural Revolution so they are no stranger to hardship. They realized the American Dream basically.

GranzonEx posted...

Money spent housing refugees should be spent on our education and transportation. We also have a housing shortage. Can't take care of other countries before we take care of ourselves.

You do realize that unless there's another country willing to let them in, we're stuck paying to take care of them anyway? Trump's free to round up all the immigrants he wants, but then what?

GranzonEx posted...

Money spent housing refugees should be spent on our education and transportation.

So they voted for the guy that wants to abolish the department of education snd spend nothing on transportation.

Like it's a debt management problem

Why was (is) the JPY carry a problem?

Excessive borrowing against it ie debt

Banks have way more debt than they can handle and are doing anything to buy time desperately hoping the government massively prints their way out of it and bails them out, devaluing the currency and making their debt not matter. Then they're hoping they can pivot into some other currency standard as USD collapses but hint it's not bitcoin because too many non elites know about that.

Xeybozn posted...

You do realize that unless there's another country willing to let them in, we're stuck paying to take care of them anyway? Trump's free to round up all the immigrants he wants, but then what?

Send them back where they came from. Last year or maybe this year they recorded something like 20,000 Chinese illegally crossing the border from Mexico. Easy solution is to send them back to China, I'm sure Xi would love to know why they fled the country causing capital flight and brain drain.

We can't be a charity until we fix our shit. If we don't stem the influx into our country then our systems will break under pressure. Sometimes you have to make the hard choices.

Leafeon13N posted...

So they voted for the guy that wants to abolish the department of education snd spend nothing on transportation.

I never said they were smart. They are single issue voters. Sometimes people are simple as that.

GranzonEx posted...

Send them back where they came from.

Send them to the front lines in Lebanon or Ukraine. Then we'll spend billions taking care of them, but at least they can kill some middle easterns in the process, which is a use of money Americans have never complained about.

foolm0r0n posted...

Send them to the front lines in Lebanon or Ukraine. Then we'll spend billions taking care of them, but at least they can kill some middle easterns in the process, which is a use of money Americans have never complained about.

Unironically would support this if suggested which I'm sure most people here will shriek about

If they survive they get citizenship through service

I don't joke

I also think that was literally a policy in the past but I'm not a history buff

Lopen posted...

Unironically would support this if suggested which I'm sure most people here will shriek about

If they survive they get citizenship through service

Do they get citizenship in Israel, Ukraine, or the USA?

I guess in any event I oppose allowing non-citizens to fight in our military. Something feels very off about expecting someone to possibly die for the country who isn't even a citizen.

USA it'd have to be we don't have authority to give them citizenship elsewhere

Sometimes this topic just gets gross and there isn't a point to saying anything.

This has hit that moment.

In this universe, Ukraine and Israel would become US territories because the illegals ended the wars so decisively

To be totally fair we probably have to entice them with citizenship if they survive 1-2 tours. I don't think most of them would sign up if the condition is that they serve until the end of the wars.

What is happening in this topic

GranzonEx posted...

To be totally fair we probably have to entice them with citizenship if they survive 1-2 tours. I don't think most of them would sign up if the condition is that they serve until the end of the wars.

Yes for sure I was thinking tours or like 4 years or something

Uncle Joe 10 minutes ago: "You can't love your country only when you win. You can't love your neighbor only when you agree."

Uncle Joe 5 minutes ago: Tribalism talk, us vs. them, blah blah blah

What a mixed bag of a speech. He went from saying something people needed to hear to contradicting himself FAST.

It is hard not to break character when people voted to fuck themselves this hard.

LightningStrikes posted...

What is happening in this topic

Detached irony maxxing

Lopen posted...

Yes for sure I was thinking tours or like 4 years or something

If it's 4 years then you can synchronize it with the presidency. This lets the following president cancel all the citizenship promises of the previous president, requiring the illegals to do another 4 year tour. Rinse and repeat until they give up and go home, or get KIA. Infinite soldiers without a draft and without ever having to give out citizenship.

foolm0r0n posted...

If it's 4 years then you can synchronize it with the presidency. This lets the following president cancel all the citizenship promises of the previous president, requiring the illegals to do another 4 year tour. Rinse and repeat until they give up and go home, or get KIA. Infinite soldiers without a draft and without ever having to give out citizenship.

The boys at the NSA and Pentagon reading this right now: HOLY SHIT WRITE THAT DOWN WRITE THAT DOWN

Defence contractors stonks go up

Xeybozn posted...

You do realize that unless there's another country willing to let them in

in a lot of these cases there's a good dozen countries they could've gone to and no ocean in between.
they can pick one of those.

actual refugees are ok, those seeking better opportunities are not. especially true if it's from the Americas considering how big a hand we've had in there, that's totally fair game. i think most are fine with the idea of hey, a Venezuelan or Ecuadorian refugee as opposed to a refugee from Ukraine or somewhere in the middle east - geographically it makes sense. people also are actually okay if it's women, especially those with children. people are very not ok with single, working age men showing up at a scale of like 8:1. i remember for a sec Italy floated the idea of essentially going we'll take all the women and kids but the single men can fuck off back home, unironically i think that's the closest ticket you'll find people accept. as long as the kids don't have a whole ass beard and are already balding, anyway.

GranzonEx posted...

Got friends and family in NY that voted Trump because they don't want their small businesses to get robbed, or run into homeless encampments that drive traffic away. These friends and family are actually first generation immigrants that have been here for decades.

NYC had a notable shift to the right. 22% in the Bronx and Queens each, 10% in Manhattan, still looking for Brooklyn numbers but if it follows the trend it's gonna be another double digit shift. yeah she still won the city overall with 68% but Biden had 76%. Hillary had 78%. a lot of that first generation might've already voted for trump but many more did this go too. the second generation is what's coming out more in his favor because they're like "fuck, my parents were right."

basically you know that plan the border states had of going "fuck this, we're busing the migrants to the cities and see how they like it"? yeah, that's extremely effective. people see what's put in their neighborhoods and the quality instantly drop, they don't feel safe anymore, and these places often weren't that great to begin with. the richer ones sure as hell ain't supporting who arrived and migrants get kicked out of there, meaning it's again the working and lower class neighborhoods who get hit with this. speaking of which, some of the people in those categories do use city benefits, rightfully so as it's paid into taxes. coincidentally, there's been a strange uptick of difficulty to get benefits as the migration has gotten worse, it's practically inverse lines. but people notice the uptick of illegal immigrants well just in daily life, look no further than the sheer number of pedicabs here - French is the primary language with English being non-existent. it's a total scam in pricing. almost nobody uses them, if even 5% get a single customer in a day i'd be shocked. but somehow they just can't stop popping up.

Wanglicious posted...

NYC had a notable shift to the right. 22% in the Bronx and Queens each, 10% in Manhattan, still looking for Brooklyn numbers but if it follows the trend it's gonna be another double digit shift. yeah she still won the city overall with 68% but Biden had 76%. Hillary had 78%. a lot of that first generation might've already voted for trump but many more did this go too. the second generation is what's coming out more in his favor because they're like "fuck, my parents were right."

basically you know that plan the border states had of going "fuck this, we're busing the migrants to the cities and see how they like it"? yeah, that's extremely effective. people see what's put in their neighborhoods and the quality instantly drop, they don't feel safe anymore, and these places often weren't that great to begin with. the richer ones sure as hell ain't supporting who arrived and migrants get kicked out of there, meaning it's again the working and lower class neighborhoods who get hit with this. speaking of which, some of the people in those categories do use city benefits, rightfully so as it's paid into taxes. coincidentally, there's been a strange uptick of difficulty to get benefits as the migration has gotten worse, it's practically inverse lines. but people notice the uptick of illegal immigrants well just in daily life, look no further than the sheer number of pedicabs here - French is the primary language with English being non-existent. it's a total scam in pricing. almost nobody uses them, if even 5% get a single customer in a day i'd be shocked. but somehow they just can't stop popping up.

There will be a tipping point one day. It's amusing this issue is swept to the side and we're told to deal with it. I personally live in the suburbs and don't have to deal with it. But the people in the metro areas that this affects will be the ones voting when their voices aren't heard. It's crazy to think people are ok with taking in an infinite amount of migrants and just feeding and housing them perpetually. There's budgeting limits. That lady that works at the train station can't pay for groceries and now her food stamps are slashed and she see these new people roaming the streets getting handouts and she's going to wonder why she isn't getting any help.

Coastal elites sticking their noses up will be their downfall. And people wonder why Latino voted for Trump in CA lol

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f023ec32.jpg

people literally didn't know what they were voting for and expected to be rewarded for it.

Sounds like they got what they voted for. Hope theyre happy with voting for the dunce

ivysnow posted...

people literally didn't know what they were voting for and expected to be rewarded for it.

Brexit-ass mentality

ivysnow posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f023ec32.jpg

people literally didn't know what they were voting for and expected to be rewarded for it.

Leopards are feasting on faces right now

I'm going to enjoy watching leopards eat people's faces. It's the people who didn't vote for him getting their faces eaten I feel bad for.