Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 421: Existing in the Context of All In Which We Live

(+) Yeah! (+)

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Maybe Miami sinks into the ocean!

This would just make Florida more red!

Whoops, meant Miami-Dade. I forget they're technically different.

Though I guess it would be difficult for one to sink and not the other....

Wanglicious posted...

so i'd say the main misunderstanding here is that dems weren't already at that level already

lol

Republicans: "We need to charge all trans people with pedophilia and lock them up"

Wang: "tsk tsk Dems, like you're any better"

YoBlazer posted...

Fucking come off it dude

on what, laughing at, mockery, or attacks on an opponent?
like what else would you consider to have been the dems' position since 2016? voter base has been equally dicking around online. hell we spent a good couple years talking about a pee tape that almost nobody actually believed but just on that tiny chance that a massive germaphobe would do something so hilarious, it was news and it was something to laugh and joke about.

remember when baseless attacks on democrats led to a pizza place being shot up?

but yeah i'm sure memes about vance and the pee tape are on the same level

except that's not what's being talked about, like at all?

his position was hey, there's a smear campaign, some of it's false or half truths, it's lowering democrats to the level of republicans. my answer is no, its already been on that level for years now, and if you're gonna run for office that's absolutely a good thing. what part of this are you objecting to, that this wasn't just a part of politics today on both parties?

"the revolution will be bloodless, if the left will allow it"
"some people just need to be killed"
"Thats right, I called you demons and imps who come and parade before us and pretend that you are part of this world"
"mass deportation now"
transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Democrats stopped caring about Florida when it mattered and it's hurt them for years now, and it's going to be a while before it's possible for it to matter again.

I don't think it has anything to do with the Democrats. Florida's issue is that it's currently THE spot for old people to go move and retire too, and boomers overwhelmingly vote red. This will only change when all the old people die.

KamikazePotato posted...

I don't think it has anything to do with the Democrats. Florida's issue is that it's currently THE spot for old people to go move and retire too, and boomers overwhelmingly vote red. This will only change when all the old people die.

nonzero number of blue folks fleeing the state, too

AriaOfBolo posted...

"the revolution will be bloodless, if the left will allow it"
"some people just need to be killed"
"Thats right, I called you demons and imps who come and parade before us and pretend that you are part of this world"
"mass deportation now"
transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely

and not one of these things is talking about a half true smear campaign or the mockery of a candidate with fairly low brow subject matter. this has literally nothing to do with what's being said by anybody. his position was essentially that smear campaigns like this are the territory of republicans, my position is that its already been that way, literally nobody's position is that this is any of the rhetoric you've listed. i don't get what part of this is hard to understand. republicans have always used these smear campaigns, democrats were typically not the type that went this way - the whole 'when they go low we go high' mantra is literally this - but since trump it has absolutely been the position and both sides are on the same level here.

Wanglicious posted...

and not one of these things is talking about a half true smear campaign or the mockery of a candidate with fairly low brow subject matter. this has literally nothing to do with what's being said by anybody. his position was essentially that smear campaigns like this are the territory of republicans, my position is that its already been that way, literally nobody's position is that this is any of the rhetoric you've listed. i don't get what part of this is hard to understand. republicans have always used these smear campaigns, democrats were typically not the type that went this way - the whole 'when they go low we go high' mantra is literally this - but since trump it has absolutely been the position and both sides are on the same level here.

Wrong. Republicans actively calling for the death of their opponents and people that are different from them is not the same level as Democrats mocking Republicans for stupid shit.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Wrong. Republicans actively calling for the death of their opponents and people that are different from them is not the same level as Democrats mocking Republicans for stupid shit.

and nothing of the first half is relevant to the second half, or relevant to the conversation. we are explicitly talking smear campaigns. it's in the first sentence of the damn paragraph.

so misinfo specifically, more like the birther thing or the election steal, got it

Democrats want post birth abortions and trans people are pedophiles IS a smear campaign.

To Republicans, it is on the exact same level as Vance fucks couches. They don't see a difference.

I see we are back to dealing with wangs bad faith arguments.

realizing I have wang blocked on the laptop account

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/64bba969.jpg

Wang but with the worst politicians in the country

(and probably also with Elon Musk still, I have no evidence for that but it feels like it tracks)

Wanglicious posted...

and nothing of the first half is relevant to the second half, or relevant to the conversation. we are explicitly talking smear campaigns. it's in the first sentence of the damn paragraph.

Yes and the first part is all about the type of smear campaigns repugnants run, while the second is the type of smear campaigns you are talking about the Dems running. You are objectively wrong about this and are just running interference for the repugnants.

Kenri posted...

(and probably also with Elon Musk still, I have no evidence for that but it feels like it tracks)

This really feels like it tracks.

AriaOfBolo posted...

so misinfo specifically, more like the birther thing or the election steal, got it

birther would totally be closer to what we're talking about, yeah. directly targeted somebody with a lie.

election steal... kinda? but not really because it wasn't targeted at a person which is essential to a smear campaign as... well, you need somebody to smear. you could technically go broader with a whole party but at that point, kinda escaping the scope of the subject - smear campaign full of lies or half truths against somebody. which, again, has basically been the standard of politics since 2016. you could argue it was just a republican strategy before that to some degree but after trump all bets were off and internet came in full force.

Wang is definitely here eating up "locker room talk".

when someone is being deeply unserious in a discussion that's meant to be at least somewhat meaningful, it's more effective to not respond to them or acknowledge their presence

even if I accept your means of classification I still feel like that's a different level than "this guy fapped weirdly as a kid", and then qanon is just that stuff by the bushel, and then you've got all the transvestigators, and

ivysnow posted...

when someone is being deeply unserious in a discussion that's meant to be at least somewhat meaningful, it's more effective to not respond to them or acknowledge their presence

Unfortunately Wang is 100% serious.

He got too deep in early internet spaces and lost his grasp on reality.

ivysnow posted...

when someone is being deeply unserious in a discussion that's meant to be at least somewhat meaningful, it's more effective to not respond to them or acknowledge their presence

but surely this time he is engaginig in good faith and we'll have a productive conversation and reach an understanding!

yeah ok I'll knock it off

And that isn't to say hes worth arguing with.

Just that he isn't being "unserious".

He is a true believer in his nonsense.

someone may take what they are saying seriously but the core of what's being said is unserious despite intent. it's stupid and facile regardless

AriaOfBolo posted...

but surely this time he is engaginig in good faith and we'll have a productive conversation and reach an understanding!

yeah ok I'll knock it off

i understand the urge!

AriaOfBolo posted...

even if I accept your means of classification I still feel like that's a different level than "this guy fapped weirdly as a kid", and then qanon is just that stuff by the bushel, and then you've got all the transvestigators, and

the classification is the same one from the start that was always there, it's not "accepting" it or not. that's just what it was. all the other things there seem to be different types of moral issues you object to which is fair but it's also not what's being talked about. "hey we've got a smear campaign on a candidate that is reminiscent of traditional republican smear campaigns" is not even remotely the subject matter of qanon. the scope you're using is way, way broader than anything being talked about. the birther bit though, totally works.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/26bc1219.png

lol at a literal nazi's political instincts being better than the gop's

This is exactly why the sofa garbage is damaging.

No matter how much worse conservatives are in terms of spreading rumors, an equivalency will be drawn between the two sides.

One side can be significantly more wrong than the other, but any amount of wrongness will draw "both sides are the same" arguments.

And I'm more than willing to admit when the left is doing things wrong, and even in this case we've been completely candid about the soda rumor being wrong.

But Vance has SO many terrible takes that even while we say 'yeah the sofa thing isn't true' it is perfectly reasonable to bring up his other (real) terrible takes again and again.

At this point it doesn't seem like the republicans spent any time vetting JD Vance at all, with all the quotes they are finding from older interviews and podcasts.

i mean if you're going by what spencer said i'm pretty sure he also said he was anti-trump and explicitly supported biden back in 2020, got headlines for that. that's before his meltdown iirc.

hard to tell what's true and isn't with him. about the only thing i believe is that he'll support whatever ruins israel the most.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

And I'm more than willing to admit when the left is doing things wrong, and even in this case we've been completely candid about the soda rumor being wrong.

oh see this is also a point i'll heavily disagree on.
left is doing absolutely nothing wrong with the couch shit, dolphin sex shit, or any of that. he's running for VP, it's funny, smear him with as much mud and dirt as you want, all fair game. funny will land, disturbing or crossing the line to a bit too much will reveal itself as a bit too much when the time comes and it's counter-productive. it's his job and responsibility to rise above it. if he can't, he wasn't cut for that position. was funny as hell to mock Palin when she was around, been funny to mock Trump when he's been around, Vance is even more fair game because he's trying to talk shit too with the cat lady stuff. if that's the road he wants, it's the road he gets and he's opened that door himself.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Because Trump was NOT prepared to win his first term. They didn't accomplish as much as they could have because they didn't know how.

Now they are much more familiar with the levers they will need to pull to enact authoritarian goals.

Trump also has significantly more pending criminal charges. Not only regaining power, but significantly altering the Justice system is something he will be much more motivated to do now.

Very dumb. You're arguing Trump was born yesterday. And that campaign fraud is the worst of his felonies that he wants to bury.

No, his decades long career was entirely in lobbying. He knew the levers better than any candidate other than maybe his buddy Clinton.

And he had FAR worse felonies to hide long before campaign fraud. Epstein was literally alive at the start of his term, and not alive at the end. The stakes were so much higher for him.

YoBlazer posted...

Florida was the only state where Biden performed worse than Hillary, and that just felt strange.

It's not really.

Millions of people have moved to Florida in the last 4 years, especially Trumpers. Covid caused mass movement across the whole country, which is also how Georgia and Arizona became so blue.

People pressure liberal Californians and New Yorkers to move to a state where their vote will actually matter, and many treat it like a joke, but it's serious. It's how elections are won and it will decide this election too.

What would be strange is if Florida stayed purple forever just because Bush v Gore was a tight race 24 years prior. Do we expect anything else to stay constant after 24 years?

Yeah Pence was anti-Mulan. He also was against married men interacting alone with any women who arent their wives at all. And he calls his wife mother.

Trump literally entered the oval office and before the week was up, extra judiciously killed a US citizen child (in a raid planned by Obama, but still).

There's a reason authoritarians love him. He's extremely good at it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/246f8401.jpg

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

And he calls his wife mother.

I feel like there's a key difference here with the full way you say it.

Nobody would bat an eye for a guy calling his wife momma when they have kids.

Hard R mother is Norman Bates stuff.

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1817007527919485050?t=IDzHLp1fkvm6JqVSnJwWcw&s=19

......

Holy shit

So is there another way to take that aside from 'I'm going to install myself as a permanent dictator' that I'm just not seeing?

The absolute best read....well the best read is it's just rambling senility because he actually does look actually senile if you listen to the rest of this speech, not in a smear way but in an "oh he's actually slipping" way.

But the best read otherwise is he's admitting that he does not actually give a fuck anymore once he's finished a other 4 year and he can't be president anymore.

Of course it easily be the worst read.

"We'll have it fixed so good you won't have to get out and vote"

interpretation is that he's gonna get rid of all the bad democrats things so easily and so completely that they don't need to worry about voting anymore because their concerns, as Christians, will never come up again in their lifetime.

xenosaga posted...

So is there another way to take that aside from 'I'm going to install myself as a permanent dictator' that I'm just not seeing?

Shockingly, yes.

He's so narcissistic that he could be saying there's no point in voting once he's gone.

I don't buy that, but it's not unfitting.

It's certainly an effective sound byte to throw in an attack ad no matter what he actually meant, at least!

That's a looooooud dogwhistle

is that even a dogwhistle anymore

that's more hollerin out the back door for em

NEW: Joe Biden plans on Monday to call for major Supreme Court reforms, likely including term limits and an enforceable ethics code.

Hes also expected to push for a constitutional amendment limiting presidential immunity:

https://twitter.com/adamcancryn/status/1816980707111014609?t=kky58jkXmXylvwLOJfSWvA&s=19

Welcome back Dark Brandon

Love that he accidentally tosses in that hes not Christian.