Board 8 > Friends Mafia Topic 4 - The One Without Banana-Hammock

(+) Yeah! (+)

Okay but I am town, so how does this change your scenario for Wallz?

foolm0r0n posted...

But his vote on Sultan is so strong. It put Sultan at 3 vs Peaf's 3, giving a viable alternative to Peaf for the first time.

He was very clearly giving an out to move it in the vote post to Dumey or Blade easily

Sultan and Kirby just buried Sulfan really hard so the escape valve lost viability

Side note I don't think wallz + dumey is likely after that ISO so throw out my configurations that have it.

Lopen posted...

He was very clearly giving an out to move it in the vote post to Dumey or Blade easily

Sultan and Kirby just buried Sulfan really hard so the escape valve lost viability

Sultan did do the most work out of anyone in getting himself killed, correct

foolm0r0n posted...

Wallz early T2 does smell like bussing. But his vote on Sultan is so strong. It put Sultan at 3 vs Peaf's 3, giving a viable alternative to Peaf for the first time.

Then Death quickly jumped on Peaf to break the tie (y'all have already forgetten how scummy he is huh?)
If scum Wallz wanted to bus, this is the perfect time and person to vote for, with Death helping maintain Peaf's lead. It's risky since it keeps Sultan only 1 vote away from Peaf, but that's why it's strong. After Sultan gives his counter vote on Peaf "my only option" then there's a 2 vote diff. That gives space for scum Sbell or IGCD to throw an ineffectual late-day vote on Sultan. Result is Peaf is lynched but all the scum on Sultan are perfectly set up for the rest of the game.

I'm going back to wondering if there even was any scum online at the time.

I didn't really care for the d1 numbers talk because A, we had not seen any night kills so couldn't possibly have an idea of how many kills are in the game, and b had not seen any flips so the only role anyone not scum could know was their own.

One thing not mentioned as well

I think Sultan is more likely to accept death if he felt he had distanced himself from his scummates well

Not sure he did that but given his focus on wallz early I don't doubt HE thought he did that

Well does anyone else have any ideas to bounce around?

I'm leaning

Foolmo + Corrik + Wallz
Or
IGCD + Corrik + Wallz

So there's your solve foolmo. As such I'm pretty ok lynching Corrik or Wallz

I'll walk through town reads I guess unless someone has something to talk about

IGCD as traitor makes some sense too. Traitor would want to immediately out themselves as undesirable to shoot so their scumteam doesn't accidentally shoot them and millet achieves that wonderfully

Obellisk posted...

I don't think I've ever correctly sussed out a scum wallz, and scum wallz has pulled the wool over my eyes many times.

I'd sooner trust lopens read on wallz than my own.

Well I did latch onto scum Wallz pretty immediately last game, and I'm not getting the same vibes from him this game at all. He keeps making posts I really like both day 1 and today, whereas last game he made zero. He also had a very static posting style last game of asking random people these long drawn out questions but never really following up. Haven't seen him doing that this game

And Lopen says Sultan's calling out Wallz immediately post 1 looks like scum theater. Does it? I feel like Sultan genuinely believes that a Wallz who doesn't make jokes is scum, that part isnt fake. So does he call out his buddy like that not just once but twice on page 1?

Foolmo who did you protect night 1 and why

I still think the double vote gambit from igcd is more likely to come from his town self. I'm not comprehensive sold on dumey or sbell, and mzero hasn't given us much of anything to work with.

PunishedBen posted...

I feel like Sultan genuinely believes that a Wallz who doesn't make jokes is scum, that part isnt fake.

I refuse to believe Sultan doesn't see that as a joke if he's actually reading posts. I know Sultan can have interesting interpretations at times but yeah it felt like he had a pre-established plan to go at Wallz and didn't actually read Wallz's posts. If Wallz is not a scummate he actually cares enough to read the post.

Sultan throws a LOT of softballs at Wallz throughout the day. If you reread you'll see it. As said Sbell said Sultan had no teeth and I think he correctly assessed that because Sultan was distancing not actually attacking

Lopen, can you share your Death giga mega town tell at some point today before we lose you?

I'm in agreement with Corrik probably being scum, especially if Foolmo is doctor. I have no interest in pursuing claimed doctor any further today, and I like IGCD and Wallz. Mainly for interactions SUltan had with the two of them.

PunishedBen posted...

Lopen, can you share your Death giga mega town tell at some point today before we lose you?

I cannot. It would take too many words and distract the town.

Please just trust. Death and Peaf are 200% town that much I know.

If at any time you find yourself unsure of something Death is claiming to be true just come back to this post and use it for reassurance. Channel your inner Lopen from games past when you found that dastardly scumteam.

I will say I strongly prefer lynching wallz to Corrik

If wallz flips scum you basically town clear Dumey which is invaluable for solving

Ben, what are your thoughts on Mzero and sbell?

PunishedBen posted...

Lopen, can you share your Death giga mega town tell at some point today before we lose you?

I'm in agreement with Corrik probably being scum, especially if Foolmo is doctor. I have no interest in pursuing claimed doctor any further today, and I like IGCD and Wallz. Mainly for interactions SUltan had with the two of them.

Show your notes.

Town reads

1. Ben
Was pretty instrumental in getting momentum on Sultan. I think his attempts to engage with the game and reads come from town. Like that Death slip catch, wrong as it ultimately was, had to come from Iso on Death. Scum doesn't care enough to Iso.

2. Chang
Was also instrumental in getting momentum on Sultan. I actually move him into the book of town after his theorycrafting about Traitor and Peaf's role as 3p. Going into that amount of detail on role mechanics just to townclear one person feels like a town Chang thing to do.

4. Death
My Death towntell is pretry ironclad and game proven. Annoyed I didn't see it earlier could have saved Peaf distraction. The scumtell is more dicey so I trust it less. I also like how he engaged me. I think Death as scum just downplays my value as he has done before.

5. Dumey
Pretty much can't be paired with wallz who feels obvscum at this point. If we lynch Wallz and he turns out town then I dunno.

8. MZero
He called Death town and was set on it entirely because he didn't like the flavor argument against him. Hes also been pretty lighthearted and has made a lot of jokey posts. That feels like town Mzero to me, but this is a weaker townread than the others.

9. Peaf
His role makes zero sense as scum and he has clearly been trying to work with us to scumhunt in the chat. It also makes zero sense as 3p due to what Chang said.

10. SBell
I think his teeth attack on Sultan was pretty important in getting him ultimately lynched. I think the attack was too effective and focused to be scum on scum violence in contrast to Wallz who didn't put as much substance against Sultan and left other options open.

Remaining is
Wallz, Corrik, foolmo, IGCD (and Dumey if wallz flips town). I still think it's more likely IGCD than foolmo but IGCD's play makes sense as Traitor so it's possible.

Lopen posted...

I still think it's more likely IGCD than foolmo but IGCD's play makes sense as Traitor so it's possible

I meant more likely foolmo than IGCD

IGCD has had some boldness in his play that feels townish but I actually think that him being Traitor could bring that same energy potentially

Keep in mind whether foolmo is traitor or not scum doesn't know who traitor is so Corrik realizing foolmo might have been hinting traitor at some point in the day could definitely have caused him to flip on him and is a big part of why Corrik is strongly in my POE

Corrik is also notably not pushing for mass at a more sensible time than he usually pushes for mass. This is notable

Notably notable one could say!

PeaceFrog posted...

Ben, what are your thoughts on Mzero and sbell?

They're town. Mzero missed the town flavor split in the opening post, which scum surely already knew, and I dont think Mzero would have questioned and drawn attention to in the first place if he was scum. Mzero is also promising us that there is a reason he is so absent, so I'm not worried about him right now.

Sbell has made a lot of posts I like, including being the only one to point out Mzero's not being aware of the flavor split post. But there is a specific post of Sbell's that I'm holding onto that I dont want to share right now, but will return to after he claims if needed.

Lopen posted...

I cannot. It would take too many words and distract the town.

Please just trust. Death and Peaf are 200% town that much I know.

If at any time you find yourself unsure of something Death is claiming to be true just come back to this post and use it for reassurance. Channel your inner Lopen from games past when you found that dastardly scumteam.

I can only hope I die or the we solve the game this time before unleashing Benopen is necessary lol

Corrik7 posted...

Show your notes.

Actually, I just found a Wallz post that i really liked, that also explains why IGCD is town. So here

wallmasterz posted...

The best thing in IGCDs favor imo is Sultans reaction to the idea of IGCD being a double voter. Sultan seemed genuinely annoyed that a miller would be double voter because in his words double voters are almost always town, and it makes a miller look a hell of a lot less suspicious

Now could they have coordinated this as scum/scum, technically sure. But sultan seemed genuinely annoyed to me

Lookig back Wallz is less active and involved than I remember him being. But Then again so was most of everyone.

Mostly in the sense that he waited a long while to vote someone.
Before that he could have gone to Sultan or Dumey as far as I can tell.

PunishedBen posted...

They're town. Mzero missed the town flavor split in the opening post, which scum surely already knew, and I dont think Mzero would have questioned and drawn attention to in the first place if he was scum. Mzero is also promising us that there is a reason he is so absent, so I'm not worried about him right now.

Sbell has made a lot of posts I like, including being the only one to point out Mzero's not being aware of the flavor split post. But there is a specific post of Sbell's that I'm holding onto that I dont want to share right now, but will return to after he claims if needed.

So we have strong conditional town cases on basically everyone... except for Corrik, really.

PeaceFrog posted...

So we have strong conditional town cases on basically everyone... except for Corrik, really.

Corrik and Chang I'd say. Death is really only holding on by Lopen's town tell but I will trust it for now.

PeaceFrog posted...

That's kind of where I'm at too, Sbell.

MZero, before you head out today I'd really appreciate a quick grouping of "lynch these players" and "do not lynch these players" from you.

Do not lynch
death
foolmo
Ben
Peaf
IGCD
Dumey

Lynch these players
chang
wallz
Corrik

I guess you can lynch him if you want but I don't love it
SBell

PunishedBen posted...

Corrik and Chang I'd say. Death is really only holding on by Lopen's town tell but I will trust it for now.

I am surprised you are willing to trust an unspoken towntell. But I cant complain.

And to be fair you are holding on to a single thing as well, but that vote on Sultan is just that good.

should it be concerning to me that I have found Lopen to be entirely reasonable this game and don't really have major concerns with anything he's saying?

maybe I can chalk it up to him being a spectator instead of a player.

But frankly I am following the logic, it largely is pretty similar to my own and I am okay with lynching any of Wallz, Corrik, foolmo, IGCD, Dumey.

side note: I am playing in an online tournament today so I will be around all day today but specifically in 20-30 minute spurts between rounds

Chang?
Interesting, mzero.
why is that?

man now I'm formatting like Death for some reason

htaeD posted...

I am surprised you are willing to trust an unspoken towntell. But I cant complain.

And to be fair you are holding on to a single thing as well, but that vote on Sultan is just that good.

And what is that single thing...?

PunishedBen posted...

And what is that single thing...?

Its at the end of the sentence, Benny boy.
Outside of that I cant recall much of what you did.

htaeD posted...

Chang?
Interesting, mzero.
why is that?

Part of it is PoE but also he rubbed me the wrong way day 1 when he said

changmas posted...

for now I'm giving a little side eye to MZero as I think it's within his scum game to be a bit cheeky like this. he might be liable to live a few nights after getting mislynched last game

I feel like chang knows me well enough to know that I am more cheeky as town than scum. Also he walked it back after learning it was a reference, even though that doesn't make it any less cheeky. So not only does it feel fake but also forced and lacking conviction

bear in mind I basically never suspect chang and am, in fact, usually the one campaigning for his innocence when he inevitably becomes a mislynch target every game, so when he does something that seems off to me it sticks out

wallmasterz posted...

I like Changs catch up post, feels towny.

Tunneling wallz is town wallz more often than not, possibly always. But I wouldnt say Ive come close to tunneling blade with my usual tenacity.

My read on Blade hasnt changed from a slight scum lean, Chang. This is really based on comparing his town game last game to what were seeing now. I think Blade is clearly less aggressive and proactive, which isnt inherently scummy but its a far cry from how he acted immediately out of the gate previously. Blade was very focused, confident, and there was more bravado and a bit of arrogance. To say you find him identical is genuinely baffling to me.

Where Im going with this: of everything that has stood out to me, Blades difference in behavior is near the top of the list but getting the least amount of attention. Therefore I will enjoy continuing to be the town crier much to Blades annoyance =)

Blade has cited boredom as an explanation for this difference. But does boredom make sense all throughout the first page (13, 19, 31, 32, 45)

For example, another thing standing out to me is Corrik popping up on d1 to talk setup (1.408). Normally I dont like it. D1 Corrik is more like x person is scum and radio silence/fuck you when anyone asks for his reasoning. But I can see a logical line between foolmos posts dragging a potential d1 town Corrik out of bed.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

This rubbs me the wrong way.. I don't remember wallz being tunnel vision as town. But then having to exsplain that's what you do as town is also just awkward. Like almost explaining why he hasn't done anything

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

You know I was missing a joke somewhere earlier but Wallz may be work taking a look at. Chang pointed out that he is joke posting or only responding to Blade. Blade caught him last game maybe he's walking in egg shells as scum this game?

wallmasterz posted...

Where did this happen?

I know I have chimed in on other things but dont care to go find it. I have responded to anyone who has talked to me.

Chang just said the bold. Do you have any original thoughts to share?

Back and forth between Sultan and Wallz that does not read like scum/scum to me.

If you're doing scum bus theater, the goal is to go after each other in a way that makes the other person look good after one of you flips. Does Wallz rebuke a scum buddy Sultan's argument here by saying his thoughts are not original? It seems like something you would not want to call attention to because if Wallz then flips scum, he wants people to see that Sultan was the primary one pushing him.

Town: Ben, Foolmo, IGCD, Sbell, Wallz
Remaining: Chang, Corrik, Death, Dumey, Mzero, Peaf

Chang is arguably the most under the radar player in the entire game. Would like to see more quickly.

Corrik has a few good posts that feel like town Corrik but Lopen made a great point about Corrik not calling for a mass claim. Last time this happened, Corrik was scum iirc.

Death has not moved out of PoE yet but his I dont want to put Sultan at -1 yet, minutes are precious post looks better the more I think about it. If scum, he couldnt not vote Sultan after that or it would be straight up suicide imo. And if youre scum locking yourself into voting for a scummate, why not just vote Sultan right then and there? It doesnt look good seeming wishy washy and Sultans vote had all the momentum.

Dumey: I cant shake the feeling Dumey is scum. Sultans this is a weird post comment and then never pressing Dumey or seemingly mentioning Dumey again, is the inverse of what Lopen is complaining about with me. Sultan thought I was an easy target. With Dumey, he made a single comment and then never interacted with Dumey again iirc. Dumey blatantly calling Sultan town and trying to prevent Sultans lynch is definitely brazen as shit if scum/scum, though. Its not a good look per se, but its the one thing giving me pause. Still would lynch Dumey.

Mzero: Im pretty sure mzero breadcrumbed his flavor which is kinda odd to do as town but it would be a god tier choice on the safelist. If I were the host I couldnt resist including this character as an actual town role. I want to know why mzero thinks its good to deliberately not participate much.

Peaf: Absolutely not scum. My 3p fear is still real. If we get a Joey flip, Peaf is confirmed town.

htaeD posted...

I am surprised you are willing to trust an unspoken towntell. But I cant complain.

And to be fair you are holding on to a single thing as well, but that vote on Sultan is just that good.

Oh, I misinterpreted this thinking you were saying that I'm only suspecting you for one specific thing.

And yeah, I'm at least self aware that I'm not the best at reading you given you don't actually flip scum in 100% of games, thus I'll defer to Lopen's 200% town read on you

wallmasterz posted...

I want to know why mzero thinks its good to deliberately not participate much.

That would kind of defeat the purpose!

Remaining: Chang, Corrik, Death, Dumey, Mzero, Peaf

If you trust Peaf as town, and therefore trust Lopen and his read on death, it leaves

Chang, Corrik, Dumey, Mzero

##Vote Corrik

I'm back at this I think

I think I like mzero more now after that Chang post

+mzero, -Chang stock

MZero posted...

Part of it is PoE but also he rubbed me the wrong way day 1 when he said

I feel like chang knows me well enough to know that I am more cheeky as town than scum. Also he walked it back after learning it was a reference, even though that doesn't make it any less cheeky. So not only does it feel fake but also forced and lacking conviction

bear in mind I basically never suspect chang and am, in fact, usually the one campaigning for his innocence when he inevitably becomes a mislynch target every game, so when he does something that seems off to me it sticks out

to address this: I think you are cheeky as both alignments but before I had realized it was a reference I was thinking about the 'run away' part of it in particular is cheekier coming from scum, especially given your usual playstyle. When I learned it was a quote from the show it became less of a statement and more of just a reference from the show to me, whilst being a little cheeky still.

I appreciate that you are almost always defending me and I hope you'll come to your senses soon and see me for the town that I am

changmas posted...

should it be concerning to me that I have found Lopen to be entirely reasonable this game and don't really have major concerns with anything he's saying?

maybe I can chalk it up to him being a spectator instead of a player.

I said this in spectator chat but I used to be a lot better at finding scum

And I think it's because town hadn't made me as a joke yet and people could bounce ideas off of me.

A Mason chat increases my power levels immensely because they can filter ridiculousness a bit and trust me

Corrik makes me angry since he cant be around today, so it feels like a waste of time but also he has to be scum from a lot of perspectives.

What perspectives would those be

If a Corrik lynch was off the table who would you lynch right now

I was already leaning this way after my ISO last night, but after reading Lopen and Ben's conclusions on Wallz, I feel like I agree with Ben that the Sultan/Wallz interactions did not read as scum/scum to me. Which means if not Corrik, I wouldn't go to Wallz here.

wallmasterz posted...

Edited for grammar. Cant leave that there after I dunked on Dumey earlier

I just want to say that I said "I'm fucking suck" on purpose. It can't be a grammar issue if I was doing it on purpose!

The Wall ISOs to put the doubts I was starting to have back in depths of my mind.

wallmasterz posted...

What perspectives would those be

If a Corrik lynch was off the table who would you lynch right now

I meant in the sense of people perspectives.
And I guess it would either be Mzero or Edumey. Mzero is improving, but I dont feel his odds of being town are as solid as other people claimed

rude