Board 8 > Friends Mafia Topic 4 - The One Without Banana-Hammock

(+) Yeah! (+)

Fine by me.

So death didn't pan out, Dumey got off the hook, and foolmo didn't pan out... maybe my read on Sultan was just pure luck.

Back to the drawing board for the morning reread tomorrow.

yeah I don't agree with lynching foolmo or massing here

looking at chang and wallz suspiciously atm

If foolmo is doc the logical lynch is Corrik or IGCD as they'd know he was doctor

##Vote Corrik

PeaceFrog posted...

Would you be more comfortable if we pushed everyone to claim?

No way. why is b8 always so hype on the mass claim

Sultan 2.67 - 2.68 calls out Wallz for buddying up to Blade, and Wallz asks him for clarification. Does this interaction happen between two scum?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80787674/980813441
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80787674/980813471

Wallz 2.126 - 2.138 questions why Sultan is getting himself involved with Blade, and states Sultan as a primary reason for wanting to distance himself from Blade, thinking something is wrong here. Does scum Wallz see scum Sultan going after Blade here and not want to commit?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80787674/980815621
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80787674/980815941

Wallz 2.362 - 2.408 votes for Sultan claiming because of vibes, and then directly comments on Sultan's poor response to things like IGCD double voting. Informed scum seeing the flailing happen in front of him?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80787674/980819594
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80787674/980819832

I asked questions about scum perspective above, but my ISO of D1 doesn't show Wallz suddenly changing to bus Sultan. It was a natural progression of Wallz liking Sultan less and less as time went on, especially once Sultan started interacting with Blade. I think it's possible that Wallz is scum here and separating himself from Sultan, not directly going after him until after he had made the decision to vote for Sultan. But I could see this from town perspective as well. Nothing from D1 makes me strongly thing Wallz is scum.

Lopen posted...

If foolmo is doc the logical lynch is Corrik or IGCD as they'd know he was doctor

I'm wondering how exactly the result stealing role works in this case. If the stealer got a message like "Peaf was successfully protected" then they would know for sure I was doctor. If scum knew that from the beginning of D2 then that really highlights Corrik, IGCD, Sbell as scum.

If scum didn't get that info, or if the role stealer is town, then the ones who forced my claim are more scummy (Dumey, IGCD). This is more likely to me, mainly because if scum knew I was doc, they also knew that lynching me would lead me to claim, and they would have to get off and settle for NKing me anyway. They may not be the sharpest bunch though.

Lopen is scum mvp either way though.

I just put a little extra in there-- if town (youre not) you buried yourself bud

foolm0r0n posted...

Hmm great point

This btw is the biggest scumtell

Foolmo being honest never says that about any thought that isn't his ever

Saying this to peaf in topic 3 page 2 is actually what really put me on his scent

Wallz is off in Siberia with this Peaf is a traitor theory. If you stop and think for two seconds you should realize that it isn't possible. Either A) the spectators aren't in on it, in which case his role effectively sabotages itself or B) the spectators are in on it, and not only does Peaf have to avoid slipping himself, he has to hope that none of his Tree Stump army slip for him. Once again, a role that effectively sabotages itself. Plus Kirby was pretty gung ho on Sultan. If he knew Sultan was scum I don't think he would do that. Frankly for as much as I liked Wallz on day 1 this reeks of desperation trying to avoid having a 99.9% confirmed town player

Surprisingly, I actually don't hate the broader traitor theory for the math reasons brought up by Lopen but it simply cannot be Peaf. I hope that's the end of this element of the discussion.

---

with regard to foolmo. two interesting scenarios:

1. he's telling the truth and he's doctor who had his result stolen (like a scanner blocker? tbh I'm a little confused by what he meant by this last part). But if I am understanding this correctly his implication is that scum was aware of his role prior to the claim (please correct this if I am misunderstanding, because I'm about to base a bunch of stuff on this assumption). Which means that scum either pushed him knowing he was going to claim doctor and (presumably) live another day or (more likely if you ask me) they explicitly wanted NOT to push him because if they knew he was a doctor he could be dead n2. With the claim out in the open, scum has to fear tracker, watcher, any other type of protection, in trying to kill him.

and if that's the case, then why did he hesitate to claim? if from his perspective, scum already knew he was a doctor but town didn't, wouldn't you want to claim?

2.so 2nd scenario now, foolmo is scum and faking doc claim, presumably with some kind of assurance that there isn't a doctor in the game. The result steal / scan blocker thing is made up to throw people off of whatever roles scum actually has left, probably something loosely confirmable that people can potentially talk themselves into believing is confirmable town.

But here's the kicker. There's actually one thing that breaks up this theory. That's right, a town results stealer. Notably, suggested by Dumey here.

EDumey posted...

No. Role thief from town.

Because it's the one thing that can explain why town foolmo might hesitate to claim doctor - if he thought his result was stolen by a town player. He didn't seriously think about that though, surely? It shouldn't make any sense. It's pretty much a straight up anti-town role. I mean sure, it could have stolen Sultan's role thief'd results back, but how many scum roles could it feasibly take results from? Most of the time, it's just taking information away from someone who knows more. At best, it could confirm someone's role can do what they claim they can do, but that's probably as much of a trap as it is useful, if scum has any 'confirmable' roles.

The best thing is though, if this 'town role thief' exists, they can just claim themselves and that should prove foolmo is telling the truth too. It's unlikely this role is going to serve a more useful purpose than this if it does somehow exist (though at this stage I think I am pretty confident it doesn't). If scum wants to commit their neck to fake claiming it, they'll have a hell of a time faking those results.

so yeah foolmo/Dumey maybe?

somebody read all that please and tell me if i'm cooking or not

it's been a long week I hope my brain is still firing on all cylinders

or sultan's results are technically doppelganger'd i guess not role thiefed but same thing whatever

foolm0r0n posted...

I'm wondering how exactly the result stealing role works in this case. If the stealer got a message like "Peaf was successfully protected" then they would know for sure I was doctor. If scum knew that from the beginning of D2 then that really highlights Corrik, IGCD, Sbell as scum.

If scum didn't get that info, or if the role stealer is town, then the ones who forced my claim are more scummy (Dumey, IGCD). This is more likely to me, mainly because if scum knew I was doc, they also knew that lynching me would lead me to claim, and they would have to get off and settle for NKing me anyway. They may not be the sharpest bunch though.

Lopen is scum mvp either way though.

oh

Lopen posted...

I just put a little extra in there-- if town (youre not) you buried yourself bud

I put myself in the best position a doc could be. You helped Dumey and IGCD push me over.

changmas posted...

somebody read all that please and tell me if i'm cooking or not

it's been a long week I hope my brain is still firing on all cylinders

I think you're cooking but I've kinda resigned myself to everyone being scared of OOOOH DOCTOR OOOOH CANT LYNCH THAT

Lynching wallz is a good compromise though

##vote: wallz

I'll build the case tomorrow morning

Lopen posted...

##vote: wallz

I'll build the case tomorrow morning

Who's the other 2 scum?

my one hesitation with wallz is that his vote felt pretty decisive onto sultan when it didn't have to be.

had scum just resigned themselves to losing sultan already at that point?

but since then he has looked pretty terrible so I don't know how much credit I can hang on that vote

foolm0r0n posted...

Who's the other 2 scum?

You and Dumey probably

If you're town

Wallz + Corrik + IGCD is guess

Will be interesting to read how we went from 'I got his super secret scumtell' to 'death is in my townconfirmed book'

Oh a 'superduper secret towntell'
Mysterious, but I will take it.

To be nice I will still adress his earlier posts

I then ISOed Sultan and found he was very non-commital with regards to Sultan. He claimed it was hard to read Sultan and then later when asked if Sultan was possible to lynch, Sultan acted hurt while Death said "I'll need to read up on Sultan later" which to me felt like there were scum in that interaction, Sultan would not have been hurt if there were town there but I felt like he didn't want to get bussed.

Cant really speak for Sultan. But I will state that I was reading up on Sultan because somehow the lynch between Peaf and Blade felt odd. Like the game was making me choose between two players who I didn't think were all that dissimilar. And Sultan was connected to both. Seeing if he could be trusted or not would perhaps help me figure out what I should do.
And yes I was kinda annoyed that Dumey vetoing it.
Then I had a bad reaction to all the Sultan votes springing up. I realize now I shouldn't have, but at the time it made me worry and vote Peaf instead.

htaeD posted...

Will be interesting to read how we went from 'I got his super secret scumtell' to 'death is in my townconfirmed book'

Welcome to the Lopen experience

As for the Ursula thing, I have already gone over that. I dont think I need to repeat myself now anyway.

Btw I am not sure if traitor theorizing is getting us anywhere.
I could just as easily see Joey as a standard scum member with one single good power.

Foolmo still feels like scum to me either way

4 scum would be overpowered

Town needs to get 3 lynches wrong to lose, 4 lynches right to win that. That's too scum weighted imo. With traitor they still do but scum is blind to the traitor so it balances a bit (hence why foolmo is using bad innuendo to tell the scum it's him)

Joey is either 3p (thematically doesnt make sense), traitor (thematically good), or town (thematically strange especially with Ursula as the miller)

Another reason foolmo is suspicious to me is because he isn't even considering a 3 scum setup when it's actually more reasonable than 4 fully linked scum.

Okay I cant deny that I did think scum would just have 3 members going into this.

I was thinking 3+1 the whole time-- I was actually thinking an actual 3p could exist for a while (I legit missed the igcd double voting was a feint for half the night lhase and was throwing out 3p doublevoter spew) but traitor made too much sense thematically

Anyone thinking 4 scum first hasn't really considered the setup or is likely scum (I think Corrik was saying 4 scum as well which is really careless for him he tends to be super setup analytical)

Then again I cant really get around foolmo's doc claim either.

A results stealer is not new to me btw. I have seen them before.
I am gonna assume every power gets a specific PM confirmation about a succesful or unsuccesful result.
In a docs case I believe their action would still go through, but now they just cant be sure if they were succesful or roleblocked or redirected.
I mean if Foolmo is the doc, he probably was only targeted by the result stealer and Peaf still did get protection.

It'd be more devastating if a tracker or cop got their result stolen.
So yeah no massing here.

Corrik7 posted...

I disagree peafs role would justify scum being only 3. We didn't have an extra death last night so in theory sk is out. We can't rule out recruitment. As of now I'd stick with 3 scum left.

Yeah

From Corrik early d2

I'm at the point where I'm thinking there's a high chance wallz + corrik are 2/3 remaining regardless of whether foolmo is telling the truth or not so despite being pretty darn sure foolmo is just scum they are probably better choices

Corrik just hasn't brought it and this assumption doesn't feel like one town Corrik makes.

The One With The Long Awaited Votals
[3]Foolmo - (IGCD), Corrik, SBell, (Peaf), (Dumey), IGCD
[1]IGCD - Foolmo
[1]Corrik - Dumey
[0]Death - (Peaf), (IGCD)

There are some vast overreactions happening right now including by one of the people most notorious for having a tinfoil hat superglued to their head.

I have no problem with town confirmations. Factually speaking, its not uncommon that town clears someone for a faulty or weak reason at our own peril, so the right play is looking at every angle short of a inno scan by uncountered cop claim, host confirmation, etc.

Dumeys posts are correct. I consistently suspected Sultan and I helped get him in contention for the lynch before he was in the running. I also consistently had a town lean on peaf even when he was a popular target of suspicion before Kirby arrived. As scum I would have no reason not to suspect him or remain neutral, keeping my
options open to join that lynch. But whatevs fam.

I dont support a mass claim on any day while cops identity is unknown.

Wallz iso stuff (topic 1)
Topic 1 page 1 Sultan immediately goes after Wallz for not joking when Wallz literally joked. I found this interaction odd because Wallz completely ignored Sultan, and he regarded other players. It takes actually Dumey mentioning this fact, not Wallz.

Wallz questions why Peaf thinks Sultan is scum early--

Wallz questions why foolmo thinks IGCD is town miller early and kinda handwaves considering suspecting foolmo because of unfamiliarity

Wallz runs interference against Blade's suspicions of Sultan t1p354

Wallz says "tunneling wallz is town wallz" which is an odd thing to say about yourself and also I disagree he had been despite Blade claiming he was? Weird post t1p417

Incidentally he ramps up tunneling Blade AT THIS MOMENT which feels like "oh ya I should tunnel I do that as town"

Sultan then disagrees wallz tunnels which is hilarious and calls Wallz "in game partners with Blade" which is super weird.

Tldr

Despite the narrative being that wallz suspected Sultan early it was actually SULTAN suspecting wallz for super weird things for most of topic and wallz soft defending Sultan/joking/suspecting Blade early.

That initial lack of reaction to the Sultan joke post attack and defense of Sultan from Blade looks really bad going back

Topic 2 to come soon

Wallz iso stuff
T2p72 is the first post wallz shows some suspicion of Sultan for saying Sultan is simultaneously saying wallz is tunneling Blade and budding with blade

T2p126 Wallz ramps up suspicions on Sultan, trying to defend Peaf

T2p136 Wallz comments on Ben thinking Dumey may be scum but being against lynching Dumey, pivots into maybe lynching Dumey

T2p149 Wallz goes after Dumey

Then nothing but some chit chat about Kirby

T2p362 Wallz votes Sultan on vibes but says he's open to Dumey or Blade

Fin.

Frankly

The narrative that wallz was anti Sultan is wrong. If anything he profiles as a bus vote. He was defending Sultan a lot early and put a lot more actual arguments against Blade and Dumey than Sultan

Peaf and Blade (and Kirby) are who murdered Sultan

So yeah feel really good that wallz is the guy here

If anything Sbell (rightly) calling Sultan's attacks on wallz toothless may have been because Sultan didn't want to bite his scumbuddy too hard

Im town and Sultan tried picking on me. We saw how that worked out for him =)

Its true I didnt acknowledge Sultan being wrong about my lack of joking. I occasionally ignore people as either alignment to which our host could attest if he was on the player list lol. I knew others would catch the joke and I was curious who would correct Sultan, plus I didnt care for my early day 1 vibes being harshed by unfounded suspicion.

Edited for grammar. Cant leave that there after I dunked on Dumey earlier

foolm0r0n posted...

Next time I'm definitely fake claiming miller post 1. Shit makes you invincible.

The fact that you're so bitter about an obvious miller not being scum read by everyone is hilarious.

Lopen posted...

If foolmo is doc the logical lynch is Corrik or IGCD as they'd know he was doctor

How would I know foolmo was doctor if he is doctor?

Morning.

##unvote

I'm not going to participate in lynching a claimed doctor, even if it's foolmo who has done nothing but say i am scum all game because he has a personal vendetta against me for some reason.

It can be pretty funny watching someone think they figured it all out but they're just as wrong as everyone else.

(still haven't read most of what occurred since Lopen showed up)

I still don't think we lynch the claimed first post miller.

I don't think I've ever correctly sussed out a scum wallz, and scum wallz has pulled the wool over my eyes many times.

I'd sooner trust lopens read on wallz than my own.

That's kind of where I'm at too, Sbell.

MZero, before you head out today I'd really appreciate a quick grouping of "lynch these players" and "do not lynch these players" from you.

Did foolmo claim doctor?

Corrik7 posted...

Did foolmo claim doctor?

under duress. You wanna counter?

Obellisk posted...

under duress. You wanna counter?

No

But if a counter exists it should claim

##unvote:

Lopen posted...

Another reason foolmo is suspicious to me is because he isn't even considering a 3 scum setup when it's actually more reasonable than 4 fully linked scum.

Except for when I discussed exactly this with Corrik D1, and we were really the only ones discussing it

Others who haven't considered 3 scum who you don't give a shit about:
IGCD
Sbell
Mzero
Chang
A bunch others prob

IfGodCouldDie posted...

The fact that you're so bitter about an obvious miller not being scum read by everyone is hilarious.

Like are actually laughing irl? That's awesome

Wallz early T2 does smell like bussing. But his vote on Sultan is so strong. It put Sultan at 3 vs Peaf's 3, giving a viable alternative to Peaf for the first time.

Then Death quickly jumped on Peaf to break the tie (y'all have already forgetten how scummy he is huh?)
If scum Wallz wanted to bus, this is the perfect time and person to vote for, with Death helping maintain Peaf's lead. It's risky since it keeps Sultan only 1 vote away from Peaf, but that's why it's strong. After Sultan gives his counter vote on Peaf "my only option" then there's a 2 vote diff. That gives space for scum Sbell or IGCD to throw an ineffectual late-day vote on Sultan. Result is Peaf is lynched but all the scum on Sultan are perfectly set up for the rest of the game.