Board 8 > Rate the Ace Attorney case: Turnabout Reclaimed (5-6)

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Rules:

1. Rate each case on a scale from 1 to 10 with 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest. Anything above 10 gets rounded down to a 10, and anything below a 1 gets rounded up to a 1.
2. Anything beyond one decimal point will be rounded accordingly: .04 and below will be rounded down, .05 and up will be rounded up.
3. You may grade on any criteria you like.
4. You can rate cases from previous topics if you miss a topic.

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PiEuURt1qf19VoYzcFCU1EFa8uqs2teJiVcip7JmjDw/edit?usp=sharing

Previous Results:

Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5) - 9.8 (37 votes)
Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4) - 9.7 (30 votes)
Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4) - 9.2 (32 votes)
The Inherited Turnabout (E2-3) - 8.5 (16 votes)
Turnabout Beginnings (3-4) - 8.4 (26 votes)
Rise from the Ashes (1-5) - 8.2 (28 votes)
The Stolen Turnabout (3-2) - 8.2 (24 votes)
Turnabout For Tomorrow (5-5) - 7.9 (25 votes)
Turnabout Memories (3-1) - 7.4 (30 votes)
Turnabout Samurai (1-3) - 7.4 (29 votes)
Turnabout Academy (5-3) - 7.4 (27 votes)
The Grand Turnabout (E2-5) - 7.3 (16 votes)
Turnabout Target (E2-1) - 7.1 (17 votes)
Turnabout Trump (4-1) - 6.9 (25 votes)
Recipe for Turnabout (3-3) - 6.6 (27 votes)
Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2) - 6.5 (25 votes)
The Monstrous Turnabout (5-2) - 6.5 (23 votes)
The Cosmic Turnabout (5-4) - 6.0 (21 votes)
Turnabout Ablaze (E1-5) - 6.0 (19 votes)
Turnabout Sisters (1-2) - 5.7 (25 votes)
Turnabout Reminiscence (E1-4) - 5.6 (22 votes)
The Imprisoned Turnabout (E2-2) - 5.3 (16 votes)
The Forgotten Turnabout (E2-4) - 5.2 (16 votes)
Turnabout Visitor (E1-1) - 5.0 (20 votes)
The First Turnabout (1-1) - 4.9 (25 votes)
The Kidnapped Turnabout (E1-3) - 4.6 (22 votes)
Turnabout Airlines (E1-2) - 4.2 (22 votes)
Turnabout Countdown (5-1) - 4.1 (24 votes)
Turnabout Corner (4-2) - 4.0 (25 votes)
Turnabout Big Top (2-3) - 3.7 (25 votes)
Turnabout Succession (4-4) - 3.5 (24 votes)
The Lost Turnabout (2-1) - 3.3 (27 votes)
Turnabout Serenade (4-3) - 2.7 (24 votes)

5-5 gets praise all around, ranging from Blackquill's testimony/Mood Matrix, Apollo's testimony, Aura and the setpiece of the exploded courtroom, and Edgeworth. The Phantom is a mixed bag. People liked the premise and figuring out the Phantom, but maybe not the ending of exposing The Phantom. The Phantom's real identity also caused some concerns.

Summary:

This extra case slips in between cases 2 and 3, showcasing Phoenix's first returning case as a lawyer, and featuring a rather unusual client.

Main Characters: Phoenix Wright, Athena Cykes, Apollo Justice, Trucy Wright, Pearl Fey, Bobby Fulbright, Simon Blackquill, The Judge
Other Characters: Sasha Buckler, Ora Shipley, Jack Shipley, Marlon Rimes, Sniper, Norma DePlume, Herman Crab, Azura Summers

My rating: 9/10. The DLC case really surprised me. I expected a so-so case, which is how it felt a bit at first, but it really evolved into something great. Ora as the defendant goes through more twists than I expected, Crab is a wonderful red herring of a witness, and Rimes is, of course, incredibly memorable. The ending is also really good and makes this case feel wholly unique. Also, props to using Pearl! She shows up in 5-5 technically but she actually plays a role here.

8/10

I'm in a weird position where I think 5-6 is generally overrated but still really good! I love Shipshape Aquarium as a location. Blackquill pulling a Godot at the end of Day 1 was a great homage. I think Crab is a really good witness. Phoenix refusing to accept a guilty verdict for Rimes and continuing the trial just to find the real truth is the most "classic" Phoenix moment in either of the new games.

I do think it's got some weird pacing and structural issues near the end. Rimes has his big villain transformation, and then he...steps aside for a while so we can cross-examine the orca. That's always stood out to me as an odd decision because the transformation usually signals that they've become the sole focus of the trial now, but that wasn't the case with Rimes.

9, best case in the game

10, fuck it

7

Paratroopa1 posted...

10, fuck it

Yeah this. Best non-finale case.

I was originally only going to give a 10 to 2-4 and 6-5 but I just felt like it for this one. It's so awesome. I love the setting, I love the characters, the villain is one of the best ever, the murder is memorable, everything about this case is just so fun and perfectly paced (I do KINDA agree with the issue of Rimes stepping aside right after his transformation, and I wish we had like one more cross-examination with him, but it's not that big a deal). I love that this case deliberately plays off the expectations of a long-time veteran of the series - they set up Herman Crab so perfectly as a decoy villain by introducing him on day 2 and making him seem shady, then pulling the rug out from under you when it turns out he IS shady but for good reasons. I love the twist of the murder being an accident. It's the best non epic case by a mile, it's exactly what a filler case should be.

9

Great case.

9

8.

Much, much better than 6s DLC case.

My favourite case in DD by far.

7.5/10

Solid case in general.

9.4

My favorite non-final case. Period.

6

7

I don't really see the appeal tbh. Feels pretty average to me.

9

5-5: 8/10

5-DLC: 9/10

any case that includes The Dissin of Phoenix Wright is peak. This is the only case in this game that makes really good use of Phoenix, too.

I kinda like how they use Phoenix in 5-3 lol

Paratroopa1 posted...

I kinda like how they use Phoenix in 5-3 lol

It's fun but also feels kinda hollow. Like, they're making statues of a guy who was a lawyer for three years then disbarred for eight. DD really wants us to pretend that AA4 was just a footnote in Phoenix's illustrious career.

I feel like the only reason Phoenix was disbarred for eight years is because they needed to get Trucy to be 15 or however old she is, and otherwise that whole episode really should have just been a year for him

A weird part about this case that I don't think about enough: it's kind of weird that Phoenix came back for this

Like, I realize he didn't specifically return to law to defend an orca, but like, I'm just kinda surprised he came back to law without any particular reason? He got INTO the law profession for very specific reasons which he's already long paid off, but his return to the law profession is like, well, I guess it's my job now, time to defend an orca

Phoenix definitely just wanted to one-up himself. "You thought cross-examining a parrot was wild? Check this out"

KamikazePotato posted...

It's fun but also feels kinda hollow. Like, they're making statues of a guy who was a lawyer for three years then disbarred for eight. DD really wants us to pretend that AA4 was just a footnote in Phoenix's illustrious career.

The way PW1 paints the legal system, the fact that Phoenix lost one case in three years should make him a legend!

Paratroopa1 posted...

A weird part about this case that I don't think about enough: it's kind of weird that Phoenix came back for this

Like, I realize he didn't specifically return to law to defend an orca, but like, I'm just kinda surprised he came back to law without any particular reason? He got INTO the law profession for very specific reasons which he's already long paid off, but his return to the law profession is like, well, I guess it's my job now, time to defend an orca

The conversation with Edgeworth in the intro seems to suggest that the primary reason Phoenix came back was to help end the Dark Age of the Law by proving Blackquill's innocence.

Honestly I think Phoenix just got back into law because he misses Edgeworth

Paratroopa1 posted...

Honestly I think Phoenix just got back into law because he misses Edgeworth

Edgeworth doesn't work in the courtroom most of the time now that he's chief prosecutor, and DD does also imply that Phoenix has been helping him behind the scenes while he was disbarred too.

Makes me wonder if Layton/PW actually takes place after he was disbarred and Edgeworth just covers his tracks for him as a favor.

10/10

I'm only giving out two 10's and this is one of them. It's not in my top 2 cases, but that's solely because the stakes for the overall plot are nonexistent and it doesn't hit as hard. But while the other case I'm giving a 10 to is maybe the most important case to all the characters and is just about perfect, this case is one of the least important cases to the characters..... and is absolutely perfect.

There's a good-sized cast filled with new characters, and all of them are really cool and unique to talk to; none of them are remotely like any other character in the series. Because of the scope of everything, it allows for a ton of misdirect to keep everyone guessing the entire time. Hell, going into the final trial day, there are TWO murderer twists still to pop up.

This is the best version of Pearl we ever get, Blackquill plays into everything wonderfully, and tons of stuff in this case is just CLASSIC Phoenix Wright. The cutscenes are great, including the songs, which are just adorable.

The villain transformation is the best in the series, and his motivations are totally believable. I can't hear the Allegro cross examination music for DD without thinking of "The Dissing of Phoenix Wright". Whereas a bunch of murder plots in the series are ridiculous for the sake of being ridiculous, this "murder" is a spur-of-the-moment thing that doesn't even end up that complicated, and it's just a matter of everything else getting convoluted by chance, and it foreshadows so much of it right in your face, which is fantastic. And the twists aren't even done by the time the trial is over, it still has the other aquarium to throw at you!

I love this case, and the more I talk about it, the more I can see me talking myself into it being my absolute favorite case, even above the grand finales.

8/10

Really strong case, one of the best "silly" cases in the series alongside 3-2 and 3-3. My main hot take here is that as a hip-hop fan I found the diss testimony to be incredibly cringy, but maybe on replay I'd be less pretentious about it. Still presents a very strong argument for the best case of the game.

10 best non-final case in the series outside of Layton-3

See this is what I meant!

5-6 is my 4th favorite case from this game, which says how stacked DD is and why it's my 2nd favorite game in the series.

8

5-4: 6
5-5: 8

5-6: 9
Really really enjoyed it. Might not be too emotional or mind-blowing, but I love the cast. Not one miss. Herman and his penguins are adorable. Sasha is endearing. Orla is too cute and funny. Norma is a great comedic witness that could've been so annoying but wasn't. And Marlon is a really unique witness with cool ass transformation.

10

holy shit I can't believe the pinnacle of Ace Attorney revolves around an orca whale. Ok that's an exaggeration, as Farewell, My Turnabout is still the best case, and Rise From The Ashes may be my personal favourite (pacing be damned), but wow wow wow wow this is how you do "filler". Full disclosure, I am also a huge fan of marine life, so I'm biased.

I love the fact that there's not a "real" killer, just an accidental death. Rime is a great character. Yeah, the Dissin' of Phoenix Wright is kinda cringe but that's why it's so funny. I feel like we get a glimpse of his relationship with Azura despite her being very, very posthumous of a character. And holy shit that transformation sequence. So fucking great.

Herman Crab is the love of my life. One of the best side characters. You think he might have sinister intentions, but he's a sneak for the RIGHT reasons, and his antisocial behaviour is just because that's who he is personality wise. Also oh my godddddddd he's a penguin papa that's so cute I'm sorry I'm a weak ass bitch to men who let baby birds live in their hair.

I find Norma to be underrated, and in a similar boat. You kind of get the impression of her being a sensationalist tabloid grifter, but the moment she realises that she's wrong about Azura's death, she bows out gracefully and even ensures that the case ends as happily as it could.

And of course we have Sasha and Orla, the cutest duo in all of AA. I love the audacity of cross examining an animal again, but unlike Polly, a creature that is known to mimic human speech, even in pop culture (for fucks sake her English name is Polly) they just went balls to the walls hooking up a TV in the courtroom so a man in a blue suit could talk to a killer whale. Kudos that she has so much personality for an animal! And everything is played with the perfect amount of sincerity. The game is ludicrous, but it still has stakes.

And as for returning characters, they're mostly used well. The devs definitely realised how lackluster Pearl was used in the main game and used her well in the DLC. I do think that Fulbright is a little distracting here I guess but that's a nitpick.

Also, I gotta love a sneaky callback to This is SPARDA.

skulltrumpets posted...

men who let baby birds live in their hair.

Dazh Katzroy has entered the chat

I also think Sasha is kind of the weak link of the case, but the rest of the cast is good enough that it doesn't bother me much.

(A tornado of sharks? Not even Hollywood could conjure up something that insane.)

I think the fact that Norma DePlume turns out to be a genuinely good and rightfully concerned journalist might be the biggest twist out of all of them

KamikazePotato posted...

It's fun but also feels kinda hollow. Like, they're making statues of a guy who was a lawyer for three years then disbarred for eight. DD really wants us to pretend that AA4 was just a footnote in Phoenix's illustrious career.

i mean i don't fault it for that

Jack "Shipshape" Shipley

KamikazePotato posted...

It's fun but also feels kinda hollow. Like, they're making statues of a guy who was a lawyer for three years then disbarred for eight. DD really wants us to pretend that AA4 was just a footnote in Phoenix's illustrious career.

Yeah.
I think AA6 makes much better use of him for a couple reasons.
1) The setting - Khu'rain is an unfamiliar location with a strange approach to the law, so we need an established character to ease us in, and Phoenix is perfect for that.
2) He just has good character moments there? Protecting Ahlbi is classic Phoenix - doing what is right when no one else will.
3) AA6 is honestly the most "mentoring" we see him in the franchise? Phoenix isn't the co-counsel like, at ALL in AA5, which just feels weird, and we've talked through how AA4 handled that. But the way Phoenix acts in Apollo and Athena's cases is pretty good on that front.
4) Maya is back, and Phoenix and her have a fun dynamic.

Phoenix is actually the one who sets both Apollo and Athena on their character arcs in DD with advice from Mia.

He tells Apollo to always believe in his client, and he tells Athena that a lawyer is someone who smiles no matter how bad it gets, and they carry those things with them through the game, so I wouldn't say Phoenix doesn't play much of a mentor role in DD, even if he isn't co-counsel in any of the cases.