Board 8 > Toy Story Mafia Topic 2 - On the Conveyor Belt

(+) Yeah! (+)

Obellisk posted...

poorly assessed how it would be received, can't back out now.

FD had played long enough here to know this isn't NL Country

Obellisk posted...

poorly assessed how it would be received, can't back out now.

This is FD we're talking about here, not Peaf.

(No offense, Peaf, but I'm always gonna poke fun at Valentine's EoD D1 lmao)

Lopen posted...

FD had played long enough here to know this isn't NL Country

sure sure. we all know we don't NL round these parts but we must give a little leeway here with the situation Corrik walked us into this particular game.

And I'm just devil advocating here. I'm one of the first to have said let's lynch FD.

The Claw is appreciative.

Kirby321 posted...

This suspicion is justified, and I've said as much earlier in the day.

But I've never pegged MZero as one to start going for the "out there" theories as solid reasons to start a lynch.

FD could be manipulating town. But you have to ask: what does scum FD gain from pushing No Lynch?

His motive (or at least one of his motives) for pushing NL was that we won't force town power to claim. Of course, that is ideal but that also means we won't force scum to claim either, and forcing scum to claim is one of the best ways to bust them. Especially day 1 when they're locked into that claim for the rest of the game. Also, stalling out on No Lynch (he started pushing this less than half-way through the day) leads to a complacent down and kills all the momentum going into Day 2. Scum can also lay low if no one's getting pressured.

It's also an easy thing to push so you don't have to fake scum hunt. Just park yourself on No Lynch and call it a day. Very safe. As I recall in Valentine's FD isn't the best at faking suspicion as scum. He pretty much just said Ulti and I were scum by PoE because he liked everyone else. I don't really remember what he did early game but I don't remember him making a lot of pushes.

I am absolutely a play it safe coward. Ulti doesn't know the first thing about me.

But I'm not claiming so do whatever you want.

Yeah I don't think pushing NL is out of character for FD or Kirby (moreso FD)

Notably to defeat MZero's argument FD vehemently denied he was manipulating town as scum in valentine's mafia and claimed it was a good strategy

I feel like Mzero was paying attention to this discussion too.

Lopen posted...

You're almost never active as town.

You're usually more active as anti-town.

Don't care about vig game specifically unless you had infinite shots

I claimed to have infinite shots.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I am absolutely a play it safe coward. Ulti doesn't know the first thing about me.

But I'm not claiming so do whatever you want.

You're scum and how does NL benefit scum...

So be it. Won't claim and won't try to lynch scum. The gods have spoken.

##unvote:
##vote: FD

Bye, Felicia.

Guys we are lynching FeliciaDragon. All aboard.

I'm not scum, I'm town.

And NL does NOT benefit scum on a day like today.

Scum *wants* pressure flying left and right.

Scum *wants* to force claims and out town powers so they know who to kill at night.

.

NL removes todays upside of a scum lynch, sure. But that probably wasn't going to happen anyways.

But it also removes the downside of screwing over MULTIPLE town power roles on day 1 when we absolutely don't need to. It's a play to mitigate risk and be more likely to maintain the advantage we have from the godfather being killed so quickly.

Corrik7 posted...

won't try to lynch scum.

Who says?

I will absolutely try to lynch people starting day 2.

But if you're lynching me to try to find scum yourself then you are doing it wrong.

ItzKnightz posted...

You're scum and how does NL benefit scum...

if he's scum why are you voting for Lea?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Who says?

I will absolutely try to lynch people starting day 2.

But if you're lynching me to try to find scum yourself then you are doing it wrong.

I will absolutely try to lynch scum day 2. Might as well say I will absolutely try to lynch scum day 7. No reason town isn't trying to lynch scum every day.

NL is a fallback for we have no good options and running out of time. Not a do nothing the entire day and don't try to find scum.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

But if you're lynching me to try to find scum yourself then you are doing it wrong.

He is scum

Lopen posted...

He is scum

he absolutely could be. But if he can only day kill and has to do it many times that's going to be harder and harder to justify the longer the game goes.

He could be SK who has the option to kill either day or night? Maybe with a stipulation that at least one of the kills has to be during the day?

He could also be overzealous town dayvig, but then he would just be laying low and "see you day 2"ing. It's definitely a different kind of vibe from corrik.

While I appreciate that Mzero has a drive now, I do want to know what eveven was the suboptimal FD strategy he is referring too.
I am asking as the guy who died night1 and wants to check that game again

Corrik7 posted...

Not a do nothing the entire day and don't try to find scum.

Voting for No Lynch =/= Not Looking for scum.

I'm still looking for scum, and I have some thoughts, but I'm not willing to VOTE on those thoughts today. I'm just an uninformed member of town, my thoughts are often wrong. The strategy to mitigate risk is more important than my thoughts on who might be scum.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

He could also be overzealous town dayvig, but then he would just be laying low and "see you day 2"ing. It's definitely a different kind of vibe from corrik.

Exactly

Ulit having zero apprehension over a Corrik he opened game suspecting is noted

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Voting for No Lynch =/= Not Looking for scum.

I'm still looking for scum, and I have some thoughts, but I'm not willing to VOTE on those thoughts today. I'm just an uninformed member of town, my thoughts are often wrong. The strategy to mitigate risk is more important than my thoughts on who might be scum.

Then you should never vote any game ever.

Lopen posted...

Notably to defeat MZero's argument FD vehemently denied he was manipulating town as scum in valentine's mafia and claimed it was a good strategy

Why would he admit he was manipulating town

htaeD posted...

While I appreciate that Mzero has a drive now, I do want to know what eveven was the suboptimal FD strategy he is referring too.
I am asking as the guy who died night1 and wants to check that game again

I said FD was encouraging a passive date scheme to allow scum to run over town with ease

FD insisted post-game he was doing what he would have done as town and just happened to be scum

Did Mzero tune out of this discussion or is her purposely misrepresenting the situation to get votes on FD

htaeD posted...

While I appreciate that Mzero has a drive now, I do want to know what eveven was the suboptimal FD strategy he is referring too.
I am asking as the guy who died night1 and wants to check that game again

In valentines we decided on 4 players among who the final 2 scum "must" have been. I presented a mathematical process to pair people up and force those players either together or separately on alternating days in a way that would allow us to test all 4 of them.

Now the pool of players was incorrect by design, but HAD it been correct I stand by the strategy I was presenting and would have pursued a similar approach as town. Essentially I was crafting a plan in which Sultan and I would have had like a 25% chance of winning outright or a 75% chance of me sacrificing Sultan and trying to win out by myself. But that 25% chance of winning outright got increased to nearly 100% by Ulti and Isquen blowing my plan up in a foolish way. If my actual plan had been adhered to then Sultan was likely going down, but instead they gave me the justification I needed to ensure they died the following day.

The Claw is no longer requesting the blood of the Dragon.

The Claw is not happy with the chain of votes.

htaeD posted...

While I appreciate that Mzero has a drive now, I do want to know what eveven was the suboptimal FD strategy he is referring too.
I am asking as the guy who died night1 and wants to check that game again

Basically trying to get the suspects to pair with the widely town read players at final 9 and then force them to pair at 7 so they couldn't pair at 5.

Or something like that anyway

Lopen posted...

I said FD was encouraging a passive date scheme to allow scum to run over town with ease

FD insisted post-game he was doing what he would have done as town and just happened to be scum

Did Mzero tune out of this discussion or is her purposely misrepresenting the situation to get votes on FD

I think you're also not giving enough weight to Ulti and Isquen blowing my plan the up in a way that ensured they would be on the chopping block the next day. My plan, as stated, would likely have killed Sultan, but they made sure that didn't happen.

But essentially yes, I think the method I presented would have held up under normal circumstances.

Just like NL holds up today. Why force town power to claim or take an approach that may force town power to claim? It's unnecessarily risk-taking for a minimal upside.

Lopen posted...

I said FD was encouraging a passive date scheme to allow scum to run over town with ease

FD insisted post-game he was doing what he would have done as town and just happened to be scum

Did Mzero tune out of this discussion or is her purposely misrepresenting the situation to get votes on FD

I didn't really read postgame that carefully

Either way anyone can say that, someone find proof of him doing it as town

Obellisk posted...

The Claw is no longer requesting the blood of the Dragon.

The Claw is not happy with the chain of votes.

#dayvig SBell

Lopen posted...

I said FD was encouraging a passive date scheme to allow scum to run over town with ease

FD insisted post-game he was doing what he would have done as town and just happened to be scum

Did Mzero tune out of this discussion or is her purposely misrepresenting the situation to get votes on FD

I mean thats scum talking after the fact and I dont know if that counts as much unless FD can point to even earlier games.
And the way FD just explained it himself just now made it sound like he still had scum motivations to suggest the strategy.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

It's unnecessarily risk-taking for a minimal upside.

I work in insurance, assessing risk is what I do.

MZero posted...

#dayvig SBell

You have to bold it

MZero posted...

#dayvig SBell

##Claw Mzero

MZero posted...

Either way anyone can say that, someone find proof of him doing it as town

Doing what as town? We had one date game how could we.

ItzKnightz posted...

You have to bold it

It was a joke lmao

MZero posted...

It was a joke lmao

his bold comment is funnier than the actual joke.

Lopen posted...

Doing what as town? We had one date game how could we.

I mean using math and stuff to decide the "optimal" and safe course of action instead of actually scumhunting

Obellisk posted...

his bold comment is funnier than the actual joke.

100% I actually lol'd

MZero posted...

I mean using math and stuff to decide the "optimal" and safe course of action instead of actually scumhunting

Isn't this literally what his spreadsheets are

No that's just presenting data not trying to direct town

Anway I'm going to sleep might be back a few minutes before deadline

MZero posted...

I mean using math and stuff to decide the "optimal" and safe course of action instead of actually scumhunting

Have you seen my spreadsheets?

Or been in a game where I focus way too much on flavor? I wanted to lynch Wallz, town bodyguard because his flavor was Mr. T and he wasn't a neighbor with the other 3 Misters.

Mzero do you have any other lynches you'll accept that aren't FD

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Have you seen my spreadsheets?

Or been in a game where I focus way too much on flavor? I wanted to lynch Wallz, town bodyguard because his flavor was Mr. T and he wasn't a neighbor with the other 3 Misters.

I have noticed an abscence of them so far. But that does add to your general mathematical image at least.

Lopen do you think Mzero dares to make this move as scum? Start a lynch and then peace out?
My own opinion may be obvious, but still

I completely buy the "tax day" excuse for lack of spreadsheets for the record

htaeD posted...

Lopen do you think Mzero dares to make this move as scum? Start a lynch and then peace out?
My own opinion may be obvious, but still

He could plausibly do so but note I am not voting mzero and am trying to reason with him (since I know as town mzero is super stubborn)

I feel as though the endorsement of the Claw helped push Mzero into his vote