Current Events > Can someone explain to me the "sweet baby" controversy?

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ArsGoetia
03/07/24 5:28:12 PM
#201:


i love asmon and would date him
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Smashingpmkns
03/07/24 5:36:37 PM
#202:


Do people genuinely give a shit about any of this cuz I really can't imagine actually caring about this shit lmao

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HylianFox
03/07/24 5:42:12 PM
#203:


Smashingpmkns posted...
Do people genuinely give a shit about any of this cuz I really can't imagine actually caring about this shit lmao

Whatever keeps bored incels on the internet busy

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#204
Post #204 was unavailable or deleted.
Nirvanas_Nox
03/07/24 5:59:58 PM
#205:


Gobstoppers12 posted...
It's a consulting firm that makes games worse and advises people to threaten their employers with "media outrage" if said employer doesn't hire a consulting firm to increase diversity in the game's writing.

They're attached to a lot of recent games that are incredibly mediocre at best.

Do you know which games?

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ArsGoetia
03/07/24 6:01:55 PM
#206:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


no
you may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like
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Zonbei
03/07/24 6:06:52 PM
#207:


Gobstoppers12 posted...
It's a consulting firm that makes games worse and advises people to threaten their employers with "media outrage" if said employer doesn't hire a consulting firm to increase diversity in the game's writing.

They're attached to a lot of recent games that are incredibly mediocre at best.


oh look. Who could have seen this coming.

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Goldice
03/07/24 6:34:03 PM
#208:


It's really about ethics in gaming journalism

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Goldice
03/07/24 6:38:03 PM
#209:


Smashingpmkns posted...
Do people genuinely give a shit about any of this cuz I really can't imagine actually caring about this shit lmao

People who are really really upset about games not featuring only straight white men and females who only exist for fanservice. For reasons.

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rwbonesy
03/07/24 7:41:35 PM
#210:


at least this stupid nothingburger shit gives me a free blocklist on steam of people buying into it that i don't talk to anymore that i most likely met through one specific person i don't talk to anymore

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Vyrulisse
03/07/24 11:52:20 PM
#211:


Goldice posted...
People who are really really upset about games not featuring only straight white men and females who only exist for fanservice. For reasons.
Yes let's exaggerate for effect and strip every level of nuance from the discussion. Classic.

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Goldice
03/08/24 10:03:35 AM
#212:


Vyrulisse posted...

Yes let's exaggerate for effect and strip every level of nuance from the discussion. Classic.

There seems to be one common denominator that shows up every time these "controversies" come up.

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Muflaggin
03/08/24 10:12:08 AM
#213:


Shitty consulting group that got butt mad because a steam group was made that pointed out which games they were involved in. They then went to their journo buddies to defend them in a coordinated effort (sound familiar?).
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Zonbei
03/08/24 12:19:39 PM
#214:


Vyrulisse posted...
Yes let's exaggerate for effect and strip every level of nuance from the discussion. Classic.

The funny thing is when you add all the nuance back into the discussion and actually look at the situation critically and accurately, you reach THE EXACT SAME FUCKING CONCLUSION.

Which is probably why that poster didnt bother doing all that right here for your edification.

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Trelve
03/08/24 2:04:09 PM
#215:


https://twitter.com/kabrutusrambo/status/1766158386763120749?t=Xn395rXPq3z9sa2uCz1vnw&s=19

Looks like targeted harrasment was against the rules after all!
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dancing_cactuar
03/08/24 2:08:37 PM
#216:


Trelve posted...
https://twitter.com/kabrutusrambo/status/1766158386763120749?t=Xn395rXPq3z9sa2uCz1vnw&s=19

Looks like targeted harrasment was against the rules after all!
I'm going to guess that it has more to do with the tweet where he low key dumped on Toriyama's grave less than a day after it was announced that he died.

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Humble_Novice
03/08/24 2:13:20 PM
#217:


https://twitter.com/Odra_MH/status/1766158720336363988

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Nemu
03/08/24 2:17:17 PM
#218:


Who are they even talking about? The bad one is probably Popo, but I wouldnt call Commander Black a good character. The only other one I can think of is that unnamed teacher people were jokingly shipping with Picolo.
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Myzery
03/08/24 2:20:02 PM
#219:


Nemu posted...
Who are they even talking about? The bad one is probably Popo, but I wouldnt call Commander Black a good character. The only other one I can think of is that unnamed teacher people were jokingly shipping with Picolo.

i think they were actually talking about piccolo

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hockeybabe89
03/08/24 2:22:16 PM
#220:


Vyrulisse posted...
Yes let's exaggerate for effect and strip every level of nuance from the discussion. Classic.
A bunch of games that they "ruined" are good games. I'd like someone to tell me how Sweet Baby made Alan Wake II worse and how removing whatever they suggested would improve it.

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Enclave
03/08/24 2:23:19 PM
#221:


Nemu posted...
Who are they even talking about? The bad one is probably Popo, but I wouldnt call Commander Black a good character. The only other one I can think of is that unnamed teacher people were jokingly shipping with Picolo.

There's a few characters that have pretty stereotypical racist depictions of black features.

That said, I know some black guys who just dismiss such depictions as being a product of the time, Mr. Popo after all was first published in the 80's.

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Muflaggin
03/09/24 1:34:59 AM
#222:


Trelve posted...
https://twitter.com/kabrutusrambo/status/1766158386763120749?t=Xn395rXPq3z9sa2uCz1vnw&s=19

Looks like targeted harrasment was against the rules after all!
B-but I thought the "gamers" were the harassers!
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Trelve
03/09/24 3:52:41 AM
#223:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/d1477eba.jpg
"Why won't these heckin' Nazi incel chuds use their real names so we can dox them" , asks the Kotaku journalist.
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Zwijn
03/09/24 3:54:31 AM
#224:


The only thing worse than this scumbag is his chat filled with an army of barely sentient meme regurgitators that hate everyone who isnt called Tate or Peterson. Fuck this douchebag.
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Kai_Laguna
03/09/24 4:21:03 AM
#225:


Zwijn posted...
The only thing worse than this scumbag is his chat filled with an army of barely sentient meme regurgitators that hate everyone who isnt called Tate or Peterson. Fuck this douchebag.
I mean, just by going through this thread, you can see these bigots aren't exactly rare.
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dancing_cactuar
03/09/24 4:28:47 AM
#226:


Trelve posted...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/d1477eba.jpg
"Why won't these heckin' Nazi incel chuds use their real names so we can dox them" , asks the Kotaku journalist.
This person, from the shit they post on Twitter (which is WAY tmi, jesus fucking christ don't post your entire life story online) to how they conduct themselves towards others online, legit feels like an AI generated character someone like Ben Shapiro or Quarter Pounder created to have a strawman.

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Revelation34
03/09/24 4:45:01 AM
#227:


Myzery posted...


i think they were actually talking about piccolo


Isn't that just a meme?

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Goldice
03/09/24 7:29:45 AM
#228:


hockeybabe89 posted...

A bunch of games that they "ruined" are good games. I'd like someone to tell me how Sweet Baby made Alan Wake II worse and how removing whatever they suggested would improve it.

No one has provided that yet strangely outside of some "we re just against quotas. Honest!"

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Revelation34
03/09/24 9:27:20 AM
#229:


The only thing I don't get is why a company would willingly pay another company to write for them when they already have their own writers.

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ViewtifulGrave
03/09/24 9:50:02 AM
#230:


Gobstoppers12 posted...
Meanwhile, the actual controversy around them pertains to a Steam page that contains a list of every game the company was hired to work on. People who want to avoid that company's work can visit that page and make sure that a game doesn't appear on the list.

The company is very, very upset by the prospect of accountability for their own output, and a few employees are trying to mass report, smear, and otherwise attempt to damage and punish the person who made the Steam page.

That's where the actual controversy starts. The rest of it is just "consulting firm gives awful advice, game companies follow the advice, the game sucks, people don't want to play more games with similar problems, people follow a steam page to keep track of games associated with the consulting company, consulting company becomes very upset"
What is considered awful advice?

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Myzery
03/09/24 10:20:02 AM
#231:


Revelation34 posted...
Isn't that just a meme?
i thought so, but it's all i can come up with

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Srk700
03/09/24 10:24:41 AM
#232:


Nemu posted...
Who are they even talking about? The bad one is probably Popo, but I wouldnt call Commander Black a good character. The only other one I can think of is that unnamed teacher people were jokingly shipping with Picolo.

Obviously they were referring to Goku Black and (DBS manga spoilers) Black Frieza.
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RamenNoodles
03/09/24 10:36:32 AM
#233:


Enclave posted...
There's a few characters that have pretty stereotypical racist depictions of black features.

That said, I know some black guys who just dismiss such depictions as being a product of the time, Mr. Popo after all was first published in the 80's.
Popo isnt even human right? I know he was recolored because of the controversy.
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hockeybabe89
03/09/24 10:44:44 AM
#234:


Imagine being such a pathetic worthless loser crybaby that you need someone to make a list that tells you what "woke" games you need to avoid because some random ass consulting firm gave various companies advice.

The games that Sweet Baby has "made" are an incredibly diverse list of games in genre and quality, yet we'll blame the bad ones on them and say the good ones are good in spite of them and would have been better without them. But we can't even point out what Sweet Baby has even done to the games, but we're really mad about it!

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Gobstoppers12
03/09/24 11:04:55 AM
#235:


RamenNoodles posted...
Popo isnt even human right? I know he was recolored because of the controversy.
He's not human, and he wasn't re-colored in anything except the Disney XD version. That one made him bright blue with yellow lips and its kind of horrifying. In everything else he still looks the same as always, including Super.

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rwbonesy
03/09/24 11:47:44 AM
#236:


hockeybabe89 posted...
Imagine being such a pathetic worthless loser crybaby that you need someone to make a list that tells you what "woke" games you need to avoid because some random ass consulting firm gave various companies advice.

The games that Sweet Baby has "made" are an incredibly diverse list of games in genre and quality, yet we'll blame the bad ones on them and say the good ones are good in spite of them and would have been better without them. But we can't even point out what Sweet Baby has even done to the games, but we're really mad about it!
yea p much

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Revelation34
03/10/24 11:34:43 AM
#237:


hockeybabe89 posted...
Imagine being such a pathetic worthless loser crybaby that you need someone to make a list that tells you what "woke" games you need to avoid because some random ass consulting firm gave various companies advice.

The games that Sweet Baby has "made" are an incredibly diverse list of games in genre and quality, yet we'll blame the bad ones on them and say the good ones are good in spite of them and would have been better without them. But we can't even point out what Sweet Baby has even done to the games, but we're really mad about it!


Revelation34 posted...
The only thing I don't get is why a company would willingly pay another company to write for them when they already have their own writers.

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Gobstoppers12
03/10/24 11:44:50 AM
#238:


Revelation34 posted...
The only thing I don't get is why a company would willingly pay another company to write for them when they already have their own writers.
It's literally because they're afraid of being canceled on Twitter and the PR nightmare that tends to follow.

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hockeybabe89
03/10/24 11:45:09 AM
#239:


Revelation34 posted...
The
Did they write anything? As someone else mentioned, this kind of gig seems more like a grift than anything of actual substance. Some great games are supposedly bad because of... whatever the hell it is they actually do.

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hockeybabe89
03/10/24 11:46:10 AM
#240:


Gobstoppers12 posted...
It's literally because they're afraid of being canceled on Twitter and the PR nightmare that tends to follow.
You mean like how canceled FF7 Rebirth is right now? And how canceled Baldur's Gate 3 was?

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Gobstoppers12
03/10/24 11:47:36 AM
#241:


hockeybabe89 posted...
You mean like how canceled FF7 Rebirth is right now? And how canceled Baldur's Gate 3 was?
It's not necessarily a rational fear. Companies aren't always smart. If they were smart, then they wouldn't have hired this company in the first place.

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Murphiroth
03/10/24 12:15:25 PM
#242:


It's about ethics in game consulting.
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Dungeater
03/10/24 12:26:19 PM
#243:


given all the random comments about how "careful sweet baby doesnt threaten you about your unwoke game" im seeing in the gaming subs on reddit, it seems exactly like the next attempt by gamergaters to wage their culture war

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NoxObscuras
03/10/24 12:26:41 PM
#244:


Revelation34 posted...
The only thing I don't get is why a company would willingly pay another company to write for them when they already have their own writers.
That's not what consulting is. They aren't writing the games for these companies. They're giving advice. Sometimes it's simply reviewing the game, so that the developer has a better idea on how the game will be received by the public. Sometimes it's advice on how to optimize the coding and improve performance. Or advice about community engagement. Or advice about marketing the game. And so on and so forth.

There's a lot of little things that can be consulted on and it's often good to have an external pair of eyes. They'll see things the internal team won't.

There's a lot of these companies in the industry and what they help on varies considerably. So I can understand Sweet Baby trying to shut down a Steam page that's coming up with all kinds of lies to blame them for games failing. Like Suicide Squad failed because of the always online monetization. That wasn't Sweet Baby's doing. That was all WB, and the CEO has even announced that they'll be doing more love service games.

Sweetbaby is just a convenient scapegoat for the bigots, nothing more

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omniryu
03/10/24 12:30:55 PM
#245:


trivialbeing posted...
they were involved with the latest Suicide Squad game. Make of that what you will
What does diversity have to do witht suicide squad?

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dancing_cactuar
03/10/24 12:34:18 PM
#246:


hockeybabe89 posted...
Did they write anything?
Their website literally says what they did writing on for what specific game, although there are a few things that aren't on their site which makes it more vague like Gotham Knights or some upcoming Metroidvania I can't remember the name of right now. They're script doctors that focus on various areas depending on the game, like it was main narrative for Spider-Man 2 or the ARGUS logs and Squad banter in Suicide Squad. Problem is, the second Spider-Man's main narrative was inferior to the first where they weren't involved in, and the plot of Suicide Squad would make more sense if the ARGUS logs didn't exist, so this doesn't give me confidence in their abilities as script doctors. Just a couple of examples offhand before I head off to work.

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Trelve
03/10/24 12:57:57 PM
#247:


NoxObscuras posted...
There's a lot of these companies in the industry and what they help on varies considerably. So I can understand Sweet Baby trying to shut down a Steam page that's coming up with all kinds of lies to blame them for games failing.
The Steam curator group lists the games SBI worked on based on what's on their own website. There are no lies.
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NoxObscuras
03/10/24 1:04:06 PM
#248:


Trelve posted...
The Steam curator group lists the games SBI worked on based on what's on their own website. There are no lies.
Saying that the games are bad, purely because of SBI's involvement is the lie. Like the post above yours explains that SBI consulted on the ARGUS logs in Suicide Squad. But they didn't create that system, they just gave advice on what the developers already had in game.

How does helping with that single aspect of the game mean that they are to blame for Suicide Squad being shit? That's the lie.

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Trelve
03/10/24 1:11:00 PM
#249:


NoxObscuras posted...
Saying that the games are bad, purely because of SBI's involvement is the lie. Like the post above yours explains that SBI consulted on the ARGUS logs in Suicide Squad. But they didn't create that system, they just gave advice on what the developers already had in game.

How does helping with that single aspect of the game mean that they are to blame for Suicide Squad being shit? That's the lie.
It's simply a list of games they worked on - taken from their website.

The description simply says: "A tracker for games involved with Sweet Baby Inc. Nowhere does it imply those games are bad because of SBI.

At the end of the day, this would be a complete non-issue and the group would have about 500 users, but because a Sweet Baby employee tried to get it taken down and the user banned from Steam it blew up, with over 200,000 members.
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PaperSplash
03/10/24 2:04:22 PM
#250:


So, from my understanding, they basically do writing consultation and sensitivity reading for games. Say what you will about your personal stance on those practices, but they're being hired by game developers themselves. They're not doing anything that isn't already being asked of them.

But the main controversy at the moment centers around this one employee of the company who's kind of been acting like an ass. Someone made a Steam curator list of games Sweet Baby was supposedly involved with, and the employee made a call-out post asking for it to get mass reported to be taken down, claiming it violates Steam's code of conduct. Now while I don't believe the list was made in good faith, the reasoning given for it to be mass reported was rather flimsy, and the push to get it taken down only ended up making it spread further in a classic Streisand effect. There's also been some other tweets from this person that have been making the rounds which are... questionable at best. Mere hours after series creator Akira Toriyama's death was announced, they made a rather flippant tweet about black representation in Dragon Ball. I'm not saying it's something that shouldn't be discussed, but they were playing with fire timing it like that. Though ironically, this person also had some old "ironic" racist tweets that got dug up. Sure, they may very well have changed since then, but it certainly doesn't paint a flattering picture, especially given what they're seemingly preaching now. Wouldn't say their actions represent the company as a whole as others have though.
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