Current Events > Can someone explain to me the "sweet baby" controversy?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Torgo posted...

only understood the neckbeard and streamer part...

I forget what milquetoast means. I think it might be a fancy way of saying average or medium

But NEET is a person who is not in school and has no job

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Not really.

Yes really. I'm not a child or a CNN anchor where you can keep lying to my face and expect no pushback.

The gamergate movement is a fascist, white supremacist far-right movement and their goal is the same as always.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

They're just buying the games that suit them, rather than buying the games that don't.

No, that's what I do. That's what you are supposed to do.

These people are angry that games have representation of LGBTQ, women, minorities, etc... among other elements that don't feed into their hate and insecurity, and they want it GONE.

They tell us this over an over... sorry if I am actually listening and not accepting their after-the-fact bullshit explanations.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It's pretty basic stuff. There's nothing ethically, morally, or legally wrong with the existence of such a list, nor with the desire to play games that the consultant didn't work on.

If that's where it all ended, and it wasn't a culture steeped in harassment, stochastic terrorism, bullying, white nationalism, etc.., demanding that they will go after games that don't meet their fascist content code.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

What else are they doing, functionally?

Being racist shitheels. You know this, but as always you love to go to bat for the worst people imaginable then act like you're not. Like, they're specifically angry at the idea that minorities or LGBTQ folks might appear in videogames. Again, you know this, but you're "playing" dumb.

Remember how much you simped for Trump lmao?

Torgo posted...

These people are angry that games have representation of LGBTQ, women, minorities, etc... among other elements that don't feed into their hate and insecurity, and they want it GONE.

This is awful conflation.

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/sweetbabyinc-detected/discussions/0/4302697906483340648/?ctp=10

That's a thread from the group. They themselves are coming down on the sporadic bigoted posts.

So just want to understand the argument here.

Alan Wake 2 was listed. Remedy is a Finnish developer. A protagonist in that game was a black American.

People are saying that it's bad that they hired a consultancy firm to check their writing was authentic and helped them make adjustments so that character reached the goals they wanted to achieve?

Torgo posted...

demanding that they will go after games that don't meet their fascist content code.

I feel like you're just making this up, for the most part. What are some examples of a game that has been harassed to this degree just for existing?

I obviously agree that targeted harassment and threats are bad things, but is it really that widespread? Or does it only pertain to specific public figures who say controversial things about men or gamers in general?

Anybody who hates a game "because it has black people" is obviously a pretty hateful person, but in my experience it's usually more than just "black people bad"

Punished_Blinx posted...

So just want to understand the argument here.

Alan Wake 2 was listed. Remedy is a Finnish developer. A protagonist in that game was a black American.

People are saying that it's bad that they hired a consultancy firm to check their writing was authentic and helped them make adjustments so that character reached the goals they wanted to achieve?

Oh man don't bring up Alan Wake 2, the GG types have been throwing a shitfit over Saga being black.

Murphiroth posted...

Like, they're specifically angry at the idea that minorities or LGBTQ folks might appear in videogames

That's surely an opinion that some people have, but that's not really the majority of people who oppose corporate mandated diversity quotas.

Punished_Blinx posted...

People are saying that it's bad that they hired a consultancy firm to check their writing was authentic and helped them make adjustments so that character reached the goals they wanted to achieve?

No. It's this firm, specifically, that is bad.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

That's surely an opinion that some people have, but that's not really the majority of people who oppose corporate mandated diversity quotas.

Incorrect.

Guide posted...

This is awful conflation.

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/sweetbabyinc-detected/discussions/0/4302697906483340648/?ctp=10

That's a thread from the group. They themselves are coming down on the sporadic bigoted posts.

gamegate did that shit too
r/kotakuinaction routinely had "virtuous" threads to try dispel their negative public image
ofc everyone has fond memories of past games with diverse casts
the problem is these types are against them by default at this point because of external culture "wars" they assume are being fought by proxy with female/black/queer protagonists/romances/party members/ancillary characters/etc

Murphiroth posted...

Incorrect.

Data? I'd love to see the data you're citing.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Data? I'd love to see the data you're citing.

The posts I regularly see with my own eyes.

Gobs, you 100% know the kind of shit I'm referring to, that makes up the vast majority of this "movement", you're just "playing" dumb.

Also you didn't provide any data yourself so lmao.

Guide posted...

That's a thread from the group. They themselves are coming down on the sporadic bigoted posts.

...for showing the public what their real intentions are.

That sort of talk is supposed to be for their private discords and IMs.

It very well could be the case that this Sweet Baby consulting firm is garbage and gives terrible advice that has a negative effect on games.

But do we actually have any evidence of that? We know a lot of bad games have consulted them, but is there anything that shows what bad things Sweet Baby's advice put into these games? Suicide Squad was always going to be a bad game.

ArsGoetia posted...

gamegate did that shit too
r/kotakuinaction routinely had "virtuous" threads to try dispel their negative public image
ofc everyone has fond memories of past games with diverse casts
the problem is these types are against them by default at this point because of external culture "wars" they assume are being fought by proxy with female/black/queer protagonists/romances/party members/ancillary characters/etc

Or

or

You can not be a bigot and still not like SweetBaby

just a thought

Murphiroth posted...

The posts I regularly see with my own eyes.

Gobs, you 100% know the kind of shit referring to, that makes up the vast majority of this "movement", you're just "playing" dumb.

Also you didn't provide any data yourself so lmao.

They are so upset that people don't like a group founded by misogynist, homophobic, racists and their thinly veiled attempts to terrorize companies into eliminating diversity and bringing back blatant sexism and misogyny.

What these people want to do, is blame this on the "woke left!!!!!!" but in reality it's the history of censorship from the religious right and the fact that gaming companies want to attract female, LGBTQ and people of color as gamers and get their money too - that keeps these corporations listening to these ridiculous consulting firms.

The right wing's toxic divisive culture created this problem, and they keep blaming the only people they know how to blame.

Murphiroth posted...

The posts I regularly see with my own eyes.

Gobs, you 100% know the kind of shit referring to, that makes up the vast majority of this "movement", you're just "playing" dumb.

Also you didn't provide any data yourself so lmao.

Okay so your accusations do not come with data. Sorry that you have encountered hateful people on the internet. I have, too! The majority of people I've interacted with in the context of diversity quotas have been reasonable. The position, in my personal experience (not just loud people on Twitter and the like), is that people want the characters in a story to feel intentional and natural.

When it's obvious that the characters are designed to fit a diversity quota rather than to fit the larger narrative, it becomes distracting from the immersion of the game. When I encounter somebody in a game who feels like they're preaching directly to me, the player, about modern real world societal issues, I feel as if I'm no longer the target audience of the game.

For my part, I just want a story to feel natural. I want characters who work well in the setting, no matter what ethnicity they are.

Guide posted...

No. It's this firm, specifically, that is bad.

This firm specifically worked on Alan Wake 2.

So what's the problem?

Murphiroth posted...

Oh man don't bring up Alan Wake 2, the GG types have been throwing a shitfit over Saga being black.

See the attitudes like that make the above make sense.

So far the other explanations do not.

Torgo posted...

attempts to terrorize companies into eliminating diversity

????

How so?

In fact, in this scenario, it was one of the higher ups at the consulting company who advised others to "terrify" companies into hiring them, for fear of being canceled otherwise.

Guide posted...

Or

or

You can not be a bigot and still not like SweetBaby

just a thought

as i said i do not in a previous post? lol
but if you legit think the majority of the 100k+ members here aren't just here to rail against "wokeism" or whatever you are on drugs
if the criticism had merit (regarding clear documentation of sweetbaby's involvement in development, rather than a simple "uhhh sweetbaby is in the credits") maybe they'd have a point
but hating a game just because a rando "woke" company has a credit on it and pretending it's not because you have an agenda against diversification is just fuckin silly lol

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Okay so your accusations do not come with data. Sorry that you have encountered hateful people on the internet. I have, too! The majority of people I've interacted with in the context of diversity quotas have been reasonable. The position, in my personal experience (not just loud people on Twitter and the like), is that people want the characters in a story to feel intentional and natural.

When it's obvious that the characters are designed to fit a diversity quota rather than to fit the larger narrative, it becomes distracting from the immersion of the game. When I encounter somebody in a game who feels like they're preaching directly to me, the player, about modern real world societal issues, I feel as if I'm no longer the target audience of the game.

For my part, I just want a story to feel natural. I want characters who work well in the setting, no matter what ethnicity they are.

Do you have any examples of SBI designed characters to "fit a diversity quota" or are you just screaming at a convenient scapegoat?

Hell, do you have any examples of characters in general that are designed to fit a diversity quota?

I'll give you credit for the complete deflection and continued ignorance that the majority of this movement you're backing IS loud racists on Twitter and the like, real stellar cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty.

People need to realize they only consult on the games story, they don't work on anything else. Suicide Squad sucking barely has anything to do with the story and more on the fact that it's not a good live service game.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Looks like a presentation by the Sweet Baby CEO emerged, where she is telling her employees to go to game developers and basically say that unless they hire Sweet Baby, they will get cancelled for being racist/sexist/homophobic/etc.

Yoh if this is true, than that's pretty damn scummy business practice they're invoking here.

Can you think of a better way of attempting to get rid of Sweetbaby than to make a very public boycott?

Blizzard and Ubisoft have serious issues regarding toxic sexual harrassment culture going all the way to the top...

EA just laid off hundreds of workers after many forced "crunch" projects...

Right wingers: "THEY MADE TIFA BOOB SMALLER!!!!!!!!!!1!!! It's WOKE!!!!!"

Guide posted...

Can you think of a better way of attempting to get rid of Sweetbaby than to make a very public boycott?

why would you want to get rid of them? if people buy them despite what you dislike about it, i mean its pretty clear you're in the minority lol

Guide posted...

Can you think of a better way of attempting to get rid of Sweetbaby than to make a very public boycott?

I'm not joining forces with white nationalists and toxic misogynists in order to make sure they don't reduce the perceived breast sizes of low polygon cartoon characters in remakes.

Murphiroth posted...

Hell, do you have any examples of characters in general that are designed to fit a diversity quota?

Yes.

https://kotaku.com/activision-blizzard-diversity-tool-overwatch-2-call-of-1848924832

Can people quote the exact statement said from the CEO that offended people. Not an interpretation of what was said which is often dubious in these kinds of stories.

Can anyone explain how they ruined a game.

So far neither has happened in this topic.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Can people quote the exact statement said from the CEO that offended people. Not an interpretation of what was said which is often dubious in these kinds of stories.

Can anyone explain how they ruined a game.

So far neither has happened in this topic.

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but I did see this clip this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq86DnmX2xY

ArsGoetia posted...

why would you want to get rid of them? if people buy them despite what you dislike about it, i mean its pretty clear you're in the minority lol

I think they have every right to exist and do their work, as long as they do so ethically.

But, going forward, I would much prefer to avoid giving any of my money to games that hired them to consult.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Yes.

https://kotaku.com/activision-blizzard-diversity-tool-overwatch-2-call-of-1848924832

Oh cool, one scenario from one company, two years ago, something literally everyone, even Kotaku, made fun of. Totally worth backing the movement full of racist shitheels!

Any evidence against SBI like I asked or are you just gonna ignore that question since it doesn't fit your narrative? Explain with your mouth words specifically what games they've ruined.

ArsGoetia posted...

why would you want to get rid of them? if people buy them despite what you dislike about it, i mean its pretty clear you're in the minority lol

Not sure what those statements have to do with each other. I mean, not that Suicide Squad is leaving me in the minority.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Can anyone explain how they ruined a game.

"You see... they "forced diversity" into it."

You mean they put black people in it?

"That's not what I mean, it's that they forced it into the game to meet a quota!"

So you are saying the game is worse because of the black characters?

"No, I'm just saying they should give them their own game if they want to push a black character, why do they have to put it in my franchise!"

And then you would buy the new IP game featuring a predominantly black cast?

"Fuck no! That woke shit is trash!"

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I think they have every right to exist and do their work, as long as they do so ethically.

But, going forward, I would much prefer to avoid giving any of my money to games that hired them to consult.

why is having diverse cast unethical? lol

Dumb stuff that miserable people want you to be angry at because all gamergaters do is get mad, they seem to just hate video games at this point

Torgo posted...

I'm not joining forces with white nationalists and toxic misogynists in order to make sure they don't reduce the perceived breast sizes of low polygon cartoon characters in remakes.

"Joining forces"
what do you think happens, they sync rings of power

GeminiDeus posted...

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but I did see this clip this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq86DnmX2xY

I'm not clicking an edited Asmongold video no.

I want a no frills quote of what was said. I will even take the original video that hasn't been edited to hell by a clickbait YouTuber.

Torgo posted...

"You see... they "forced diversity" into it."

You mean they put black people in it?

"That's not what I mean, it's that they forced it into the game to meet a quota!"

So you are saying the game is worse because of the black characters?

"No, I'm just saying they should give them their own game if they want to push a black character, why do they have to put it in my franchise!"

And then you would buy the new IP game featuring a predominantly black cast?

"Fuck no! That woke shit is trash!"

You see, you made up an entire boogeyman to fight when none of that happened with the backlash against SweetBaby. There's just no getting through.

Murphiroth posted...

Any evidence against SBI like I asked or are you just gonna ignore that question since it doesn't fit your narrative?

Idk bro, I don't usually play bad games. I don't know how bad their advice is.

I just know that their employees are actively trying to get somebody's account banned from steam (via brigading) as retaliation for the existence of the steam group. I find that bad enough to warrant my dislike.

ArsGoetia posted...

why is having diverse cast unethical? lol

I never said it was.

Blaming Squid Squad on wokeness is bad faith scapegoating. Warner Bros executive are the reason why the game had live service crap. Sweet Baby inc is not responsible for the core concept of the game.

My issue with this reactionary outage is that they refuse to acknowledge that a game can be good, but you dont agree with its political views. Pretending Alan wake 2 failed is a example of that.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Idk bro, I don't usually play bad games. I don't know how bad their advice is.

I just know that their employees are actively trying to get somebody's account banned from steam (via brigading) as retaliation for the existence of the steam group. I find that bad enough to warrant my dislike.

LMAO so basically you have no evidence and you're screaming at a convenient scapegoat, called it.

Guide posted...

"Joining forces"
what do you think happens, they sync rings of power

Talk about some pedantic bullshit.

Are you going to offer a counter point or just nitpick on a common old expression I used that everyone immediately understands exactly what I mean unless they can't really offer a counter point?

Tag

superbot400 posted...

Blaming Squid Squad on wokeness is bad faith scapegoating. Warner Bros executive are the reason why the game had live service crap. Sweet Baby inc is not responsible for the core concept of the game.

My issue with this reactionary outage is that they refuse to acknowledge that a game can be good, but you dont agree with its political views. Pretending Alan wake 2 failed is a example of that.

They don't care, they just want to be mad. Wake, GOW, and Spiderman all had good audience reception so clearly SBI isn't a touch of death. Its all nonsense

Guide posted...

You see, you made up an entire boogeyman to fight when none of that happened with the backlash against SweetBaby. There's just no getting through.

Getting through...with what?

Outside of saying they're shitty writers (while providing no examples) you haven't offered anything else other than arguing that it isn't sexist or racist.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I'm not clicking an edited Asmongold video no.

I want a no frills quote of what was said. I will even take the original video that hasn't been edited to hell by a clickbait YouTuber.

Okay, in the video, she says, "If you're a creative working in AAA, which I did for many, many years, put this stuff up to your higher-ups and if they don't see the value and what you're asking for when you ask for consultants, when you ask for research, go have a coffee with your marketing team and just terrify them, with the possibility of what's going to happen if they don't give you what you want." then near the end of the video she says, "There's like a genuine value that you can impress upon them both ethically and financially. You can say this is important."

Murphiroth posted...

LMAO so basically you have no evidence and you're screaming at a convenient scapegoat, called it.

I've already said earlier that everything up until the brigading was standard fare and not really worth a controversy. Like I said, I don't play bad games, generally.

Assuming they're diversity consultants or whatever (I have no idea) why would hiring them make the game bad anyway? The gameplay should still be unchanged. Plus, it's the responsibility of the game's developers to implement any advice or guidance. Sweet Baby don't just turn up and start forcefully changing the skin colour sliders.