Board 8 > Valentine's Day Mafia Topic 8: You Give Love a Bad Name

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think Peaf thought that by saving Kirby, one of two things would happen. If Kirby died first, Peaf looks good. If he died first, Kirby would get sussed. Kirby almost died yesterday so this almost worked

I think the reason he felt comfortable doing this is that everyone in the final group was town, so saving Kirby for some town cred didn't matter because another town would just die anyway. Thus, I think the remaining scum can be found in the players who were comfortably matched up, who wouldn't even be pressured into breaking up and have to worry about suspicion if they refused

Chris - death was not around
Ulti - red probably wasn't around and wouldn't have broke things off anyway
Sultan/MZero - I was snoozing. For fairness I will include myself as well
Corrik/Isquen - partnered up just before the mayhem. Corrik is claimed deputy so he can be taken out

If Kirby is town, I think scum is in Chris/Ulti/Sultan/Isquen. I've explained why I don't think it's Ulti or Isquen, but they are technically still in play.

Oh yeah also I believe Kirby had already claimed vanilla, so added bonus of maybe hitting power instead

I just got though the Chris prosty claim.

So Chris is confirmed scanning inno (by red) and confirmed is a prosty (by Sultan)

And Sultan is confirmed to not have moved last night (by Chris).

That doesn't stop from Sultan being specifically ninja or some non moving scum role, but its something.

If the whole thing is a scum/scum charade then numerically it doesn't hold up. Even if they are both given a pass today, it falls apart tomorrow and can't possibly go the distance.

Lopen posted... (t7p418)

Here is the gameplan

Lynch Chris today

Lynch Ulti + Sultan tomorrow

What? We are not lynching our lone innocent scan who is simultaneously claiming a confirmable role. Keep Chris in the PoE if you must, but that is not happening today.

Dates through T8P54

Paired
Kirby and Chris

Open Offers
Ulti: MZero, JC, Chris, FD, Corrik, Sultan, Kirby, Isquen
Sultan: Lopen

Which basically leaves me here:

Lopen - Had every opportunity to pair with Peaf when I put him in the dating pool at the tail end of day 1. Opted to pair with the now-confirmed town Lea. Almost certainly town.

Sir Chris - Scanned innocent. Also his lackluster play day 1 feels better in light of the prosty claim. I don't buy scum chris betting the house on a play that couldn't possibly work. He would sooner cut down his scummate himself and try to set himself up to go the distance with his inno scan. Almost certainly town.

Chaeix (JC) - Did not need to agree to Lea's terms to put himself in the pool at the end of day 1, also had the opportunity to save peaf before choosing dumey. Unless the team was specifically Peaf/Dumey/JC and they were all putting their ass on the line this feels town. Then again JC was also the presumptive date for Kirby when Jc/Lea broke up, so that might have caused some concern when Kirby was not quick to accept JC's date. Probably town, though I've been meaning to revisit JC's posts from day 2. Off hand I can't even remember what led to JC and corrik getting paired yesterday.

Dumey - Same boat as JC. The end of day 1 is hard to justify otherwise. So either dumey sent the breakup request to peaf and never expected he'd actually take it with some kind of miscommunication between scummates being required. Still had the option to save Peaf over JC unless specifically both were scum at the very end there. Probably town.

Corrik - Claimed backup cop. He definitely new the cop mechanics, as confirmed by red both before he died and by his flip, so that's a point in Corrik's flavor. I can't think of a scum role that would result in them learning the specific mechanics outright unless it's just an educated guess made from knowing about their own Vanilla Cop mechanics. That could also account for why corrik (if scum) would assume such a cop role would only be single use because it might feel unfair for a small-sized scum team to face the prospect of two members of town being confirmed every day. Probably town, but less so than those above. If there's even a chance we get a scan result tonight from our backup it's worth waiting for.

Kirby - On him I'm still torn. The most obvious reason for Peaf to break with Dumey is still simply to try and save Kirby. It's backed up by the fact that Kirby was the only person Peaf even tried to date before being forced to claim. In Kirby's favor has always been the fact that the post he was preparing (before I stole the date with him) was to pair up with Lea. This town credit is only further increased by the fact that Lea is now confirmed town so the Peaf/Lea/Kirby theory is no more. And so it would have been a pretty calculated risk by kirby to slap away Peaf's request if they were scummates. It's not like doing that even propelled kirby into 'strong town' status, so if thats what they were going for it failed. Possibly town, but less so than above.

Sultan - Scanned not-moving night 2. That's pretty much the only good thing to say about Sultan among a sea of mediocre and/or bad takes otherwise. In particularly I had an odd exchange yesterday where I pressed him for more details on his town clears and details about his date with mzero and got the most milquetoast of replies that ignored most of what I was pressing about. The only other good thing is that it sounds like chris was town-reading sultan even before he got the prosty result back, and if Chris is town then his reads are still pretty valuable. But if it's not too long I wouldn't mind seeing more of their date night chat to decide for myself how valuable that town read even is. Definitely the rock bottom of the 'possibly town' pile almost almost entirely because of sir chris related things instead of sultan himself.

Leaving: Mzero, Isquen, Ulti

I can give Isquen a pass based upon the Lopen Gambler Gambit, so for the moment that leaves MZero and Ulti for my preferred "lynch" today.

I'll revisit with fresh eyes tomorrow, but I need to try and force myself to sleep even though I've only been awake for like 5 and a half hours. If not my schedule will be fucked for work on Monday.

(edit: typo correction)

The fact that FD has nothing to say about me in that post is concerning

So reds role was broken. Heh.

Corrik7 posted...

So reds role was broken. Heh.

do you think scum has a godfather for balance?

Alright so I took some time off and reevaluated, here's the thing

Sultan and Chris probably both town. Chris gave sketch reasoning because he'd 'cleared' him with prosty mostly.

Ulti randomly calling Sultan super town feels like a pocket attempt. Think that was literally out of nowhere.

Mzero felt genuine energy to do an epic play and we were feeding off each other. Think he's town more than before.

Dumey initially suggesting triple kill with him Sultan and Chris and then getting cold feet when I was gonna do it feels like it was a setup for me to encourage him to triple kill and then use it to paint me scummy that I foiled by wanting an epic play.

Isquen town from last night
Corrik town obvious from claim
JC is town because hes been playing with mislynches in a more genuine way. He jumped into the fire both days. He also did it for a really good reason yesterday to save an Corrik from suicide.

I'd REALLY like to triple kill with me Dumey and Ulti. If Chris will give me a chance to redeem myself I'll take that. If we can just kill Ulti that'll work too if you're mortally convinced Dumey is town.

Chris should then pair with Dumey (or Ulti if we kill Dumey) and let us know if he moves.

Oh and I still think FD is town from day 1 play but man he's way off right now

Oh didn't see FD finish catching up

FDs read is good

Please lynch Ulti thank you FD

Anyway I still think everyone giving Dumey a pass is hand waving the idea that Dumey random breaking from town makes no sense

Breaking from scummate because the pairing looks scummy makes a LOT more sense

Evaluate Dumey's play don't just give him a pass for day 1. Look at the end of day 2 and Dumey looks way worse

MZero posted...

do you think scum has a godfather for balance?

Yes. I said if a regular cop existed that both a godfather and miller had to exist to check a one shot cop and a possible 2nd one shot cop.

Why did lea get killed after red claimed and confirmed her town.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

That's pretty hardcore. Now what happened next is still potentially just isquen doing the only thing he could do as scum, right? Unless you told him AFTER the night action cutoff his only out would be to change your mind in time for you to decide not to use it.

He didn't attempt to change my mind. I told him way before deadline. He reasoned it out over the course of the day and then decided it made sense and said I should do it to save cop or Chris

I do not think Isquen is capable of bluffing that well. It was an incredible display of role-playing if he did so. He is lock town in my book

Corrik7 posted...

Why did lea get killed after red claimed and confirmed her town.

Lea rolled over, she had offers iirc

MZero posted...

Lea rolled over, she had offers iirc

Who tried to save her

Kirby extended a date which Lea acknowledge with a meme but didn't accept, then Kirby paired up with red

She said something along the lines of not wanting to put up with Miller meta for the rest of the game or something

Hold on

Hold on

If Chris is Prosty

Why hasn't he been dating claimed vanillas

He had 2 vanilla claims day 1 to choose from
At least 3 day 2

I don't buy it

Back to GF fear for me

Ulti stop being paranoid and lazy and just let me suicide into Chris and Sultan

He is not prosty. His play does not fit prosty.

Lopen posted...

Hold on

Hold on

If Chris is Prosty

Why hasn't he been dating claimed vanillas

huh, this is a great catch

Lopen posted...

Ulti stop being paranoid and lazy and just let me suicide into Chris and Sultan

He is not prosty. His play does not fit prosty.

Town prosty, at least

fits scum prosty like a glove tbh

That's a good point. Sultan and Death were both totally unclaimed by that point. I'll give Chris a pass D1 since claims didn't start coming out until way late into the day, but by D2, he had plenty of options.

Speaking of which, the question is also... why kill Death? Or did scum actually try to take a shot at Chris?

I just think Godfather Prosty is a tad overkill. We have no reason to believe that exists until we get another scum flip. That being said, Chris has now been rendered useless because scum can very easily play around Chris's scanning by just letting any scummates trapped with Chris not move for the night.

I still don't have any faith in Sultan being town, but I doubt we're gonna make any headway there until Ulti is convinced. Problem is, I don't know who else is scum. I had a feeling at least one of my town reads was scum, but I'm not sure who it could be.

I'm tempted to let one of JC or Dumey die just to see if it was probable that EoD D1 somehow ended up being all three scum, and that's why Peaf died.

Lopen posted...

Hold on

Hold on

If Chris is Prosty

Why hasn't he been dating claimed vanillas

Both death and I were not claimed. But yeah that would have been a good move to date a claimed vanilla.

I don't want to protect (weird typo) Chris other than he clears me and you guys are playing big brains instead of any logic this game. But going after unclaimed getting them to claim he is Chris and has a level of fear. Say I claimed Vanilla and I moved I die instantly how is this play bad?

You guys have no idea how to play sometimes.

Strategy to do weird things such as date a suspect or playing Prosty aggressively in your chat is simple plays come on guys I know you're not this dumb. Either theirs a scum on your bunch or you are playing with your heads cut off

I'm still waiting on an answer for this, Sultan: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80711281/979157802

MZero posted...

Why would I know that? I didn't play in or read champs. And believing it isn't the problem, Ulti did but he was firm in his belief. You were like "this role seems pointless but maybe itblah idk" which is very waffling, like you didn't know if you should believe it or not

especially the end is like... where are you even standing on this?

I did a lot of rereading yesterday and it stuck out to me

It seemed like their would have been more to the rule if true. Then I go on to thinking yes this is just a fake claim. Sorry I was working out my thoughts in topic. This is argument I 100 get why you're making it but why was everyone so quick to just jump to nah its fake or its real with out thinking.

I feel like this whole game has been people just jumping at things with out thinking.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I feel like this whole game has been people just jumping at things with out thinking.

This also applies to you if you seriously thought nobody wanted to kill off Chris on D2. In fact, you taking him off the table entirely is what killed any further discussion on Chris :P

Kirby321 posted...

I'm still waiting on an answer for this, Sultan: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80711281/979157802

Just the way you've been coming off o don't see much originality. Day 1 I did think okay Kirby isn't pushing topic and pushing thread and might be town here. But it was also in the hight of pressure and ever since you seem to be Patrioting other people. Maybe I should reread you a bit.

But alot of I see is just parroting Dumey and Lopen.

Or maybe i simply ask okay if all me Chris and ulti are locked in what do you do?

You are dating Chris currently why???

Why are you tunnel heading you usually don't do this even when we have a cop scanned Scum you still look at everywhere else.

I get my play looks weird since I'm the only one playing against the grain ( again why would i do this as scum it draws alot of attention) i thought id be able to get tou guys to understand it im not stupid and do things for a reason it makes sense if you really think about it and why I did it.

I've exsplained it and you guys like no you only Date town reads. Not when you have multiple scum reads/ null reads near the bottom why wouldn't you date someone you know really well mind you, who you think is scum. I was busy end of day if I would have Been around when Chris was scanned Town I would have probably tried to move and have someone else take Chris.
But can't play the what ifs.

All of you have this fear of Chris, Lea, and I dominating town in a game over a year ago but idk what else I can do here.

Kirby321 posted...

This also applies to you if you seriously thought nobody wanted to kill off Chris on D2. In fact, you taking him off the table entirely is what killed any further discussion on Chris :P

Lopen for one and others made a comment that ,ulti was better I was with Ulti at the time. Also I didn't think Lea was town either.

You see my issue here?

I guess red was still open at the time but I didn't like Reds invite and he didn't claim yet

So anyone I would have picked it would have been almost exactly the same thing

Kirby321 posted...

I still don't have any faith in Sultan being town, but I doubt we're gonna make any headway there until Ulti is convinced. Problem is, I don't know who else is scum. I had a feeling at least one of my town reads was scum, but I'm not sure who it could be.

you know what

##Date: Ulti

let's see if he'll stick to his loyalty thing and let Sultan die :P

Lopen didn't accept my invite.

Not exactly surprising nut just want to put this back out their.

I dont want to accept Ultis date right now. I also some of you to rethink and really look at everything on the table.

I dont want to do this either but ill put the ball in your court here.

##Date:Kirby

##Date:Dumey

##Date:FD

##Date:Corrik

##Date:Isquen

##Date:Mzero ( we can again right?)

##Date:JC

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Both death and I were not claimed. But yeah that would have been a good move to date a claimed vanilla.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Strategy to do weird things such as date a suspect or playing Prosty aggressively in your chat is simple plays come on guys I know you're not this dumb. Either theirs a scum on your bunch or you are playing with your heads cut off

this is a weird 180

it does make you wonder if Chris threatened death to claim saying he was prosty and that's why scum killed him. This requires Godfather Prostitute of course

...I am deep in the rabbit hole

Chris didn't even TRY to date any vanilla is my problem

Going after unclaimed because you have to is one thing but he seemed to just date whoever

Chris is a good mafia player with hundreds of games under his belt. He knows how to play town prostitute.

MZero posted...

this is a weird 180

it does make you wonder if Chris threatened death to claim saying he was prosty and that's why scum killed him. This requires Godfather Prostitute of course

...I am deep in the rabbit hole

Gosh darnit Mzero am I not aloud to think in topic!

If we don't kill Chris or Sultan today Sultan just dates him tomorrow

Lopen posted...

Chris didn't even TRY to date any vanilla is the problem.
Chris is a good mafia player with hundreds of games under his belt. He knows how to play town prostitute.

I get it. But this game has the other element if being locked in a chat with someone. Force them to claim and they claim a power don't move (not claiming roleblocked) boom lier.

Claim Vanilla and Move. Boom a lier.

Doesn't that make sense everyone has a little level of Chris fear so I get the play but I'm the last to exsplain that I guess.

I mean if Prosty Godfather exists in this game I'll post a video of me litterally ripping out my hair in DTC

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I've exsplained it and you guys like no you only Date town reads. Not when you have multiple scum reads/ null reads near the bottom why wouldn't you date someone you know really well mind you, who you think is scum. I was busy end of day if I would have Been around when Chris was scanned Town I would have probably tried to move and have someone else take Chris.
But can't play the what ifs.

dating a scum read is fine but dating your only scum read is weird

like ideally you shouldn't want anyone else dead over them

but we're beating a dead horse now

MZero posted...

dating a scum read is fine but dating your only scum read is weird

like ideally you shouldn't want anyone else dead over them

but we're beating a dead horse now

He wasn't my only scum read! Lol

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8a139570.jpg

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Gosh darnit Mzero am I not aloud to think in topic!

gosh darnit is so pure I almost want to town clear you lmao

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Enchantress (Lea)- town Lean
Mzero- Town
Lopen- Town
Chaeix (JC)- POE canidate no true Read
Isquen- same as JC
FD- Seems Towny. His attack on me for being lazy was pretty good
Ulti- idk i want to say this is town Ulti but I'm not 100 sold hence why I accepted the date originally.
Dumey- still think Dumey is pretty towny
Corrik- POE/Null
Red- ??? How many times I've played with red idk how to read red but I think some of his play comes off as towny and is to bold to be scum. Played with scum red he was pretty cautious from what I remember
Sultan- I'm town
Kirby- need a reread tbh
Sir Chris- still got a sinking feeling could be scum

which of these is your other scum read?

MZero posted...

which of these is your other scum read?

Any POE is basically the same think in this game.

Ulti(who lopen said he wanted dead and others agreed with that I've said now for the like 15th time?)

JC I was back and forth with POE and Scum even from our chat if you remember. Look at My read list in their I had him as scum lean

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

But alot of I see is just parroting Dumey and Lopen.

EXCUSE ME?!

My guy seriously didn't see me arguing with Lopen all day D2 to the point of frustration just to say I was parroting him holy shit

Let me remind you, Lopen flowcharted that I, Kirby321, the one who supposedly is parroting Lopen and has zero original thought, should be killed.

And who
I daresay
were the immediate supporters of Lopen's flowchart? You know the people who I said were trying to get free passes?

Chris and Sultan.

TheSultanOfSlam, if you will.

The very person saying I'm parroting Lopen when he is hella more guilty of doing that than I ever was.