Board 8 > Valentine's Day Mafia Topic 8: You Give Love a Bad Name

(+) Yeah! (+)

Player list:

1. Mzero
2. Lopen
3. Chaeix (JC)
4. Isquen
5. FD
6. Ulti
7. Dumey
8. Corrik
9. Sultan
10. Kirby
11. Sir Chris

Day 3 will end on Monday, 3/4 at 7pm Eastern.

As a reminder, the following pairings are not allowed today:

Room 1 - FD and MZero
Room 2 - Sultan and Sir Chris
Room 3 - Ulti and Dumey
Room 4 - Lopen and Isquen
Room 5 - JC and Corrik
Room 6 - Red and Kirby

Fair enough on FD. If Ulti and Sultan stay shackled together, and I'm advocating to give Chris a night to confirm himself with two separate people, then my PoE is pretty much just Lopen/MZero.

More people seem to be defending MZero at the moment than Lopen. I'm kind of at a loss for direction right now, and probably need a little time to see some other people's reactions.

Ulti, I still want to lynch Sultan here, even if I'm assuming Chris is being truthful. Just sayin'. It's definitely possible that Sultan as scum didn't move last night.

EDumey posted...

Fair enough on FD. If Ulti and Sultan stay shackled together, and I'm advocating to give Chris a night to confirm himself with two separate people, then my PoE is pretty much just Lopen/MZero.

More people seem to be defending MZero at the moment than Lopen. I'm kind of at a loss for direction right now, and probably need a little time to see some other people's reactions.

Ulti, I still want to lynch Sultan here, even if I'm assuming Chris is being truthful. Just sayin'. It's definitely possible that Sultan as scum didn't move last night.

Why your argument is all from day 1 what actual read do you have on meM

Oh and you and Kirby not understanding statergy I feel like you guys are seriously just playing blinde but still

I'm just annoied most of you think I'm scum for stupid reason. I played a strategy and not the norm so I must be scum it's fucking stupid. And OMGUS

UltimaterializerX posted...

Sultan. Order of operations. When did Chris claim with you?

Chris didn't claim to me.

I came into the chat he interrogated me asked for all my reads asked me to claim and honestly thought he was going to come in and be like yeah let's kill sultan didn't find out he was prostitute until I got my message.

It's not just D1 Sultan. It's also how you acted D2. You can say it was "strategy" to date Chris D2 even if he was your suspect, but all that means is you knowingly kept someone you suspected of being scum out of the pool and let town lynch a pile of unknowns instead.

Or you're just scum and found a date that wasn't going to dump you when you knew you had people advocating for you to be the one lynched. Your "strategy" conveniently doubled as a way to cowardly sit back and not have any risk on your shoulders.

Plenty of other town players gave up their dates at various points in the game when it looked like the current pool of unpaired didn't look good. You didn't. Why should I trust your "strategy" over people like Lea who willingly put herself out there even as town to allow us more flexibility?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I'm just annoied most of you think I'm scum for stupid reason. I played a strategy and not the norm so I must be scum it's fucking stupid. And OMGUS

I don't think you're using OMGUS correctly. You weren't suspecting all of the people who have you heavily in the POE. If it were just people pointing the finger back at you, I would agree that it'd be dumb. That's not happening at all. People are pointing fingers at you because of the way you are interacting with the game mechanics, and saving your own skin above all else.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I'm just annoied most of you think I'm scum for stupid reason. I played a strategy and not the norm so I must be scum it's fucking stupid. And OMGUS

so who's the scum?

EDumey posted...

It's not just D1 Sultan. It's also how you acted D2. You can say it was "strategy" to date Chris D2 even if he was your suspect, but all that means is you knowingly kept someone you suspected of being scum out of the pool and let town lynch a pile of unknowns instead.

Or you're just scum and found a date that wasn't going to dump you when you knew you had people advocating for you to be the one lynched. Your "strategy" conveniently doubled as a way to cowardly sit back and not have any risk on your shoulders.

Plenty of other town players gave up their dates at various points in the game when it looked like the current pool of unpaired didn't look good. You didn't. Why should I trust your "strategy" over people like Lea who willingly put herself out there even as town to allow us more flexibility?

Ulti, red, and Lea were all near the bottom. All three weren't in my town core I still don't understand how it wasn't a good move.

EDumey posted...

I don't think you're using OMGUS correctly. You weren't suspecting all of the people who have you heavily in the POE. If it were just people pointing the finger back at you, I would agree that it'd be dumb. That's not happening at all. People are pointing fingers at you because of the way you are interacting with the game mechanics, and saving your own skin above all else.

Not really look at My reads list from my chat with Chris you're not reading the whole story

MZero posted...

so who's the scum?

My poe coming into today was

Kirby, Ulti, JC

Lopen on the bubble then he came into today doing very close to what I told Chris Lopen wasn't doing soo see how I jumped against that

EDumey posted...

It's not just D1 Sultan. It's also how you acted D2. You can say it was "strategy" to date Chris D2 even if he was your suspect, but all that means is you knowingly kept someone you suspected of being scum out of the pool and let town lynch a pile of unknowns instead.

I could have easily just stayed with Ulti thought this is also failed logic here

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Or you're just scum and found a date that wasn't going to dump you when you knew you had people advocating for you to be the one lynched. Your "strategy" conveniently doubled as a way to cowardly sit back and not have any risk on your shoulders.

This is what I ment to qoute my bad

UltimaterializerX posted...

This topic reads like scum is mad Im taking their mislynch from them.

how many scum do you think there are

MZero posted...

how many scum do you think there are

Mzero what's your issue with me exactly we were on the same page yesterday and in our chat?

UltimaterializerX posted... (T7P203)

My PoE going into today was Lopen + Sultan. If youre saying Sultan is town, Ill drop him and assume Lopen + ?.

Lopen specifically is giving me vibes from Chriss kingmaker game and FF7, where he was able to manipulate town through strange mechanics to win. Openly calling for triple+ kills is so unbelievably anti-town.

I agree with this. I don't care how sure we are, there is no reason to triple kill. Just kill one and the other can be killed the next day. A scum lynch day 1 feels like a miraculous gift and it seems like one of the only ways to tip the scales back would be to condone a course of action that could possibly kill 3 town at once.

(Edit: fixed quote block)

UltimaterializerX posted...

If Chris backs up Sultan not claiming then Sultan is town.

I said I claimed to Chris???

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

My poe coming into today was

Kirby, Ulti, JC

Lopen on the bubble then he came into today doing very close to what I told Chris Lopen wasn't doing soo see how I jumped against that

why those three? You went back to null on JC yesterday what changed?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Mzero what's your issue with me exactly we were on the same page yesterday and in our chat?

I feel like you haven't really committed to anything all game and have just been floating around basically

Even Peaf's fake claim, pretty much everyone scoffed at it but you seemed to be conflicted. Even Ulti at least committed to calling Peaf town. You were just kind of waffling

Also I still disagree with dating Chris yesterday

SirChris posted... (T7P209)

Was Corrik due for a scan today? I didnt double check the wording on his claim.

I seem to recall thinking he wouldn't activate until after cop died. But that's just another reason why it was so bizarre he claimed yesterday. Especially because his(Corrik's) conclusion was that town DIDN'T HAVE a cop. If Corrik is in fact backup I think he should have said something to the effect of "I have reason to believe town might not have a regular guilty/innocent cop". That might draw a shot but that's something a backup should want anyways I would think.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Lopen

...Lopen hasn't posted in this topic >_>

Poe exactly what it is.

Ulti has been the most aggressive to get dates. He also has done alot of weird things the past two days. Also didn't seem to care who he wanted to date.

Kirby hasn't done much of anything, seemed to be saved and also the way things went down with peaf day 1 seems Meh. Out of those attacking me it seems the least.

JC is strictly POE not fitting into a town read. He has also been a bit tunnelly with little drive

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Their is more to the chat but this is when Chris said he started to trust me

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Chris didn't claim to me.

I came into the chat he interrogated me asked for all my reads asked me to claim and honestly thought he was going to come in and be like yeah let's kill sultan didn't find out he was prostitute until I got my message.

if Chris started to trust you during your night chat why did you think he was going to try and kill you?

MZero posted...

if Chris started to trust you during your night chat why did you think he was going to try and kill you?

Beacuse our conversation was very one sided I did majority of the talking. So thought He was just going to be like yeah yeah you're fine I trust you then come in and say the opposite

MZero posted...

Even Peaf's fake claim, pretty much everyone scoffed at it but you seemed to be conflicted. Even Ulti at least committed to calling Peaf town. You were just kind of waffling

Wasn't waffling was trying to understand it. And also thought Lea was making things up at the same time. Belive claims at first is a down fall I've always had. Hence why I love open set up when I play and why I did well in champs and else where don't over think set ups and possibilities. You should know that

Wait Mzero why you mentioning this now??

Lopen posted...

I think Mzero is town because he said something Peaf said "sounded like a lie" and it feels like scum scum wouldn't do that

Lopen posted... (t7p210-211)

I'm also mortally convinced Isquen is town. I'll tell you why later

I also wouldn't expect Peaf to self destruct unless he had a good reason. If he was willing to detonate himself then he could have deliberately interacted with scummates in peculiar ways.

Can't wait to find out what you mean about isquen though. He's near the top of my list coming into today.

MZero posted... (t7p227)

Well slip is a strong word but obviously Peaf would know Isquen isn't being NK'd if they're both scum

Of course it could be faked but it feels more like TMI personally

As Chris said it could equally be an indication of scummates, but it was also just strange phrasing to begin with. "I don't think he is at risk of dying unless he finds a partner". Duh? That's how this game works and it's true for literally everyone.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Wasn't waffling was trying to understand it. And also thought Lea was making things up at the same time. Belive claims at first is a down fall I've always had. Hence why I love open set up when I play and why I did well in champs and else where don't over think set ups and possibilities. You should know that

Why would I know that? I didn't play in or read champs. And believing it isn't the problem, Ulti did but he was firm in his belief. You were like "this role seems pointless but maybe itblah idk" which is very waffling, like you didn't know if you should believe it or not

Why do I feel like peaf is hiding something... cuz now I have the same thought. That as a watcher that doesn't get much other info is a bit hmm blah idk

especially the end is like... where are you even standing on this?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Wait Mzero why you mentioning this now??

I did a lot of rereading yesterday and it stuck out to me

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Beacuse our conversation was very one sided I did majority of the talking. So thought He was just going to be like yeah yeah you're fine I trust you then come in and say the opposite

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

My conversation with Chris was very one sided until I gianed his trust basically.

But had some back and forth after.

but you said you had some back and forth after gaining his trust, and it was one-sided until then, implying it wasn't afterwards

either way I don't know why you assumed he was going to top 10 anime betrayal you after saying he trusted you

can you go into detail on the back and forth that transpired after gaining his trust?

EDumey posted... (t7p241)

Corrik: I don't think he had any reason to do his claim yesterday and make the arguments he did as scum. Very interested to see if he comes in today with a new analysis after seeing that Red was the reason no one claimed Cop when he asked for it.

Isquen: The weakest read of the above. I think Isquen could have taken free dates yesterday like Ulti's. But even at end of day, Isquen was being picky about his date. Maybe there's some scum role that explains this behavior and didn't want to date Vanilla Ulti, but my initial interpretation here is that Isquen was acting in a townie manner. Isquen is maybe bottom of Town/Top of PoE list.

That's the other thing bothering me about Corrik. Corrik's reasoning for believing cop would have come forward was first based upon the assumption that cop would necessarily be single use, an assumption which was false. But second it was predicated on the fact that the cop would definitely have seen his post and agreed that claiming was necessary. This is a bold assumption when he himself missed many hundreds of posts and had to be reminded of many of the basic events of the days discussions. If the roles were reversed and corrik were the cop he wouldn't have even seen the message insisting he come forward and provide info!

Regarding isquen I think it's highly likely that scum will want to give the impression that they are reluctantly pairing up with someone. Either to justify pairing with a scummate in a less scummy way or to prove to a town date that they also have a reasonable amount of doubt. I don't think we ever got to a point day 2 where is was 3 unpaired between isquen, Ulti and 1 other which would have been a more significant test of isquen's resolve. That's partially my fault for putting red back into the dating pool though. I still believe it was correct to do that, but it had a side effect of ensuring everyone would have an out they could take if needed.

Lopen posted... (t7p249)

I then claimed Gambit, Town Gambler. I said my ability was to redirect the night kill to the person I was in the room with once per game and if I redirected to town I would be unable to issue date requests the next day. I told him I was going to 100% use it tonight and I had decided to do this because. 1. I was not 100% sure he was town. 2. We were the big mislynches left on the table. 3. To gain another cop scan.

That's pretty hardcore. Now what happened next is still potentially just isquen doing the only thing he could do as scum, right? Unless you told him AFTER the night action cutoff his only out would be to change your mind in time for you to decide not to use it.

But it's still not nothing and probably enough to justify taking isquen off the table today.

.

It's also taking me longer than I wanted to catch up, probably not going to quote as much until I'm done.

Lopen posted... (t7p257)

I ended up finally townclearing Ulti due to how he and Dumey were reacting yesterday to end of day

It felt like Dumey was fishing for reasons to not break up and kept asking Ulti "hey bro you sure you'll be ok if we break up" and Ulti is like "yes break up I said that already"

And then Dumey didn't do it in the end without having Ulti to blame for it

Not to immediately go back on my 'less quoting pledge', but this is the exact opposite of my reaction. I told MZero last night but this is exactly why I felt like Dumey and Ulti would have been the scum/scum pairing last night if there was one. It gives Ulti the credit of claiming he's willing to be sacrificed and giving the power to sacrifice him to another, and gives Dumey the credit of constantly looking willing to consider pressing the button, but ultimately deciding it wasn't worth it.

That feels like the optimal way for scum/scum to form a date and try to minimize sus. But if not them then I'd say we just had two town/scum pairs of which they still could have been one of.

UltimaterializerX posted...

That claim is a Lopen scum classic, btw.

Was Reds scan last night revealed?

Not to my knowledge, but I'm still reading, did Kirby say anything? I would have assumed not unless the night action timing works in an odd way where red could have shared a result with Kirby before day began.

Will catch up on last topic in the morning, but a quick skim of this page is indicating theres lots of ~juice~

EDumey posted... (t7p302)

9v2
Worst case scenario -3 town + -1 town from Night Kill.
5v2
Still one mislynch left.

Better case scenario where we hit one scum.
6v1.
Two mislynches left.

If we go one by one.
7v2
5v2

But two of the dead are outside of the trio of kills that Lopen and I both want to test.

It really just trades a day of night actions and discussion to have one less scum control over the dead. Depends how valuable our night actions are I suppose.

I thought you didn't want to be yelled at? I think it was Corrik who first pointed it out during day 2, but 5v2 is mylo unless scum is forced to pair up. We would absolutely NOT have 1 mislynch left if we completely whiff on a 3 person kill.

It's probably still winning if we hit 1 out of the 3, but the risks don't justify taking a triple shot, full stop.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Kirby hasn't done much of anything, seemed to be saved and also the way things went down with peaf day 1 seems Meh. Out of those attacking me it seems the least.

Man, I'm almost offended. Are we even playing the same game here? I work my butt off trying to get town to coordinate together, but apparently that's not much of anything :P

Sultan, you said this in the heat of everything going down near the end of Day 1:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/4cc28805.png

Pray tell, what's changed since then to make you believe that I'm scum?

Honestly, the interactions between MZero and Sultan this day are just making me like MZero more and Sultan less. I agreed with every single point MZero brought up. Each of them were logical deconstructions of Sultan's arguments.