Board 8 > Dead by Daylight Mafia Topic 5: Invasion of the Body Snatchers

(+) Yeah! (+)

wallmasterz posted...

No youre good I wasnt clear.

I just thought its funny how much ulti complained about the games complexity and he didnt even know thered be another pm coming God.

which just makes it more complex.

there is nothing in my original pm that a second pm would have made more clear.

your joke is bad or a walk back from a questionable post.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I understand that Ashe didn't get the rush of votes yet, but Ulti, Lea and Wallz all had multiple votes when you left. If you were so convinced ulti was town, why not Lea? Sure she had a vote on you so it might have had some bad optics, but surely she was a better choice for you than Ulti since you were apparently convinced he was town. You asked her some questions but then admitted that the questions might be odd coming from you, the person she had a vote on.

And then if not her, why not wallz? I'm looking to see if you said anything about wallz. So far I found a conversation from early topic 3 (page 1/2, 8-9 hours until lynch) with wallz about why he was still voting you, but you never really gave an opinion on wallz.

Was your only concern just talking to people who had votes on you?

The answer is that I didn't have any reason to suspect Lea or Wallz, where I did have something to suspect against Brohan. It's not just OMGUS. No need to try and discredit me like that. I was definitely not going to leave a dead vote on Lea or Wallz who I had no claim info on and didn't actively think might be scum. Ulti I was unsure of because of the chaos, and Brohan is who I actually wanted lynched.

wallmasterz posted...

ok I believe you that its inopportune is it appropriate for me to ask what youre up to? Sbeel does Vegas?

sbell does AC. Jersey Boys don't need to fly to Vegas to lose their shirts.

I dont think half a dozen players being tied with 2 votes is much to brag about tho.

wallmasterz posted...

No youre good I wasnt clear.

I just thought its funny how much ulti complained about the games complexity and he didnt even know thered be another pm coming lol

Dead player chat must be a gas right now.

Obellisk posted...

which just makes it more complex.

there is nothing in my original pm that a second pm would have made more clear.

your joke is bad or a walk back from a questionable post.

I highly doubt you actually believe that couldve been a serious post. I think I rightly called you out for not doing anything so far this game, and now youre overcompensating lol

Thinking my attempt at a joke was lame, sure.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

First, something happened to me last night. I mean in addition to switching from one solo queue role to another, that happened as well.

I received a message telling me... something. There's a couple different ways to interpret it. It's possible its erroneous flavor related to my second solo queue persona, or it's possible its an indication that I'm loving on borrowed time.

When did you receive the message? Because your second persona does not come into effect until the start of day 2

EDumey posted...

I don't really care for your opinion that he wasn't relevant.

That's not my opinion. It is a fact that voting brohan was not relevant in the final hour of day 1. The other votes had already moved along.

EDumey posted...

It could have just as easily been Brohan that got specialed because of my sitting vote.

Possibly. I just know that I personally wouldn't tend to leave a stray vote on someone when I leave for the end of day and hope that despite being the only person on them someone else will take up my torch and try to finish them off.

EDumey posted...

I'd like to reiterate that you didn't' want Ashethan up there. You wanted Wallz as the second option.

That is correct, but I don't have any specific reason for this other than feeling worse about wallz (for the reasons I mentioned). I also wasn't crazy about the WAY the Ashe votes got layered on, within minutes of each other and without any real justifying information being given at the time. Ashe could easily be scum, I have no way to know that for certain. All I can do is make my best attempt with the information I have available.

EDumey posted...

How do you feel about Crescent, IGCD, and Brohan being late votes on Ulti with you, FD?

If it turns out Ashe was scum then I'll feel somewhat worse about them, sure. Particularly Crescent (chang's slot) for having broken the 4/4 tie by pulling off of Lea. But ultimately the case against Ulti felt like it justified the lynch so it's entirely plausible for town to cast a vote on ulti with the way day was coming to a close.

I didn't see the typo until Ben just quoted, but "loving on borrowed time" sounds like a sappy classic rock song.

PunishedBen posted...

When did you receive the message? Because your second persona does not come into effect until the start of day 2

Shortly before day 2 began.

Sounds more like the result of a night action then.

Just to be clear, you didnt receive this message at the same time as your new traits?

EDumey posted...

I didn't see the typo until Ben just quoted, but "loving on borrowed time" sounds like a sappy classic rock song.

It is
I dont think Sylvester Stallone's Cobra is a part of this game however.

Corrik7 posted...

Town:
JC
Brohan
IGCD
Ben
Sultan
Sbell

More likely town than not
Edumey
Chang

POE
Wallz
Death
Red
FD
Ash
BCT

A bit yes lol
Ash
Fd
Wallz
Chang

Make sense for a poe could be scum.

Chang I want to see more of and see if he can Change my mind a bit. Don't wanna rehash yesterday to much here.

Fd however on that list is an interesting one I'm not sure what to think nessisarily I've seen towny moments from FD.

The things I don't nessisarily like is the vote moving.

Wrong reads list ment to find dumeys to respond to his question

EDumey posted...

I know we're waiting for everyone to check in and see if any info comes up, but gonna try and spark some conversation before I go to bed in an hour-ish.

My state of the game as of D2

Fairly Certain Town
Ben
Sultan

Good Lean Town
Lea/BCT
Red

Neutral
JC
Corrik
Wallz
SBell
IGCD

Scum Lean
Ashethan
Death
Crescent/Chang

Strongest Scum Suspects
FD
Brohan

If I'm correct about FD, I would move Wallz all the way up to Certain Town. Ashethan is only in the scum lean because I think town votes went on him at end of day, and scum probably cemented Ulti in the lead. FD, Brohan, and Crescent were three of the last votes to go on Ulti and make sure he was the lynch. I still want to think SBell and IGCD are probably town, which is why I'm excluding IGCD in that analysis, but also it would be INCREDIBLY UNLIKELY for all four scum to pile on Ulti at the end, and I would say IGCD is probably the first of those four I would move out of that list.

Here is the right list.

Same applys.

I see where you're coming from on Brohan being a opportunistic vote l.

EDumey posted...

The answer is that I didn't have any reason to suspect Lea or Wallz, where I did have something to suspect against Brohan. It's not just OMGUS. No need to try and discredit me like that. I was definitely not going to leave a dead vote on Lea or Wallz who I had no claim info on and didn't actively think might be scum. Ulti I was unsure of because of the chaos, and Brohan is who I actually wanted lynched.

:shrug:

I see a thread, I pull on thread.

I stand by the way I handled the end of day 1 and I would honestly do it the same way all over again in that situation. I stand behind my choice to push Ulti/Wallz much more easily than I would stand behind the choice you made. You can't realistically expect me to believe that YOU believed your Brohan vote was going to magically become relevant after you dipped.

But you sound awfully defensive for someone who came at me swinging for pressing the vote on the same person you admit you might have ended up voting had you been around.

Though I'd like more thoughts on why you think Ben is town with such confidence

wallmasterz posted...

I highly doubt you actually believe that couldve been a serious post. I think I rightly called you out for not doing anything so far this game, and now youre overcompensating lol

Thinking my attempt at a joke was lame, sure.

I think just compensating is sufficient. And I'm just pointing out what's in front of my face right here and now.

htaeD posted...

Sounds more like the result of a night action then.

Just to be clear, you didnt receive this message at the same time as your new traits?

Correct, it was much later. I do not believe I took any action that would have prompted the message I received, but there is a [tiny] chance that it could be related to my second flavor. But if so it would be something that wasn't spelled out in my second flavor PM so I'm more inclined to believe something happened to me apart from that. I'm hoping that means I'm not gonna wake up dead tomorrow, but I can't really change it now if that's the case.

I feel like the host message should be clearer if thats the case.
Did you ask for clarification?

I'm clearly missing something. FD you received a special message outside of role pms

htaeD posted...

I feel like the host message should be clearer if thats the case.
Did you ask for clarification?

No, and the more I think on it the less it is likely to be related to my own flavor since my second role should have kicked in quiet yet. But it's not something I want to focus on. If someone wants to admit doing something to me last night then great, we can talk about it. But more likely that not it feels like something would have been done to me by scum so I doubt they will step forward.

Wallz claims he got a message too. But he was just visited (by a prosty or something I guess)

Ben was victim of a scum Flavor Cop but was told the scum got his flavor? That seems like a weak scum role.

He did not know if they got his traits so maybe it's like a full work up thing?

Seems so weird to me but I'm not gonna meta this game it sounds like a slippery slope.

Obellisk posted...

I'm clearly missing something. FD you received a special message outside of role pms

In fairness it was literally the first thing I said today. >_>

But again, unless someone wants to fess up it feels like a non-starter.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

:shrug:

I see a thread, I pull on thread.

I stand by the way I handled the end of day 1 and I would honestly do it the same way all over again in that situation. I stand behind my choice to push Ulti/Wallz much more easily than I would stand behind the choice you made. You can't realistically expect me to believe that YOU believed your Brohan vote was going to magically become relevant after you dipped.

But you sound awfully defensive for someone who came at me swinging for pressing the vote on the same person you admit you might have ended up voting had you been around.

I'm always defensive. I like getting into arguments and engaging with people. Simple as.

The reason why I probably sound extra aggressive here though is because I do genuinely think that your framing of me sitting on the initial Brohan vote and not updating my rationale is a disgusting reframing, and I wanted to challenge you on that and show anyone reading that you were dishonest about that.

I also have expressly stated that it's not the fact that you voted Ulti I'm suspicious of, but the setup of wanting to isolate the lynch to two people, and the rush of votes to solidify Ulti at the end. Not sure how many times I have to reiterate that. Yes, I admit that there were genuine reasons to vote Ulti. But that only makes it easier for scum to jump on an opportune target and possibly protect their own from being lynched.

Yeah sounds like a poison, which I doubt a townplayer would use on you.

Then again who knows.

Alot of people getting told they were visited or get messages oh boy

Ehh only the Ben thing is something I havent seen happen before.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

In fairness it was literally the first thing I said today. >_>

sbell traveled back through the topic and found the covetted first post of FD. He scours the post for a special message and finds none.

"well why did he send me here," sbell exclaimed.

EDumey posted...

and I wanted to challenge you on that and show anyone reading that you were dishonest about that.

I don't care about you "updating your rational". I'm physically looking through prior topics to find relevant posts and I started by looking for all the ## vote posts until I found yours so I could refresh myself on your stated reason for voting brohan. I found it so I included it. So no, I didn't ctrl + F 17 other pages right away to make sure you didn't slightly justify it down the road with some more information because I had enough information to see that your initial vote was to get brohan to return and at the point when you left everyone else had jumped ship from brohan but you.

I did eventually find all of your posts from that day and quote all the brohan-relevant ones (there weren't many and the justification was light) but that doesn't mean I was being dishonest as you're so keen to say with my first post. My main point is that the only choice you made at the end of day1 was to leave your vote right where it was and THAT was the weird part to me. Where exactly your justification fell on a range between 'none' and 'little' doesn't change your final action which was to leave without moving your vote.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Though I'd like more thoughts on why you think Ben is town with such confidence

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80607678/976963792
The above post, plus him jumping onto Ashethan with Ulti and Lea at the end of day. I don't think scum Ben passes up an easy Ulti lynch D1, and him instead voting Ulti to tie him with the lynch leader at 4 votes, was pretty instrumental at making it a real possibility of Ashethan being lynched.

EDumey posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80607678/976963792
The above post, plus him jumping onto Ashethan with Ulti and Lea at the end of day. I don't think scum Ben passes up an easy Ulti lynch D1, and him instead voting Ulti to tie him with the lynch leader at 4 votes, was pretty instrumental at making it a real possibility of Ashethan being lynched.

is Ashe's alignment relevant? Because I'm not sure how a town Ashe would clear Ben, especially as Ulti was more or less a claimed vanilla so scum could be keen on taking a shot somewhere that might hit power instead. Hell scum might have even considered that there was a tiny possibility that ulti WAS unlynchable and they might have ended day 1 without a mislynch at all if they pushed him.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I don't care about you "updating your rational". I'm physically looking through prior topics to find relevant posts and I started by looking for all the ## vote posts until I found yours so I could refresh myself on your stated reason for voting brohan. I found it so I included it. So no, I didn't ctrl + F 17 other pages right away to make sure you didn't slightly justify it down the road with some more information because I had enough information to see that your initial vote was to get brohan to return and at the point when you left everyone else had jumped ship from brohan but you.

I did eventually find all of your posts from that day and quote all the brohan-relevant ones (there weren't many and the justification was light) but that doesn't mean I was being dishonest as you're so keen to say with my first post. My main point is that the only choice you made at the end of day1 was to leave your vote right where it was and THAT was the weird part to me. Where exactly your justification fell on a range between 'none' and 'little' doesn't change your final action which was to leave without moving your vote.

It's just funny that you stand up behind language like, "And so yeah, its entirely behavior like yours that has me preferring to make everyone make an actual choice and stand behind their day 1 vote." and then you post before looking to see if I posted justification to stand behind my vote, which I did. Maybe you weren't intentionally trying to spin a false framing, but you only looking for Vote posts and launching a statement like that at me was false.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

is Ashe's alignment relevant? Because I'm not sure how a town Ashe would clear Ben, especially as Ulti was more or less a claimed vanilla so scum could be keen on taking a shot somewhere that might hit power instead. Hell scum might have even considered that there was a tiny possibility that ulti WAS unlynchable and they might have ended day 1 without a mislynch at all if they pushed him.

In this case, no I don't think Ashe being town would be relevant here. I think scum Ben would like the ability to lynch town Ulti here regardless. That's just my opinion though, and I respect what you're saying in this post. I think we don't know enough about what kind of info scum has available to them to make that kind of inference.

I do think it was fairly clear by end of day that Ulti was not unlynchable though. So I don't really think that's a major concern.

EDumey posted...

and then you post before looking to see if I posted justification to stand behind my vote, which I did. Maybe you weren't intentionally trying to spin a false framing, but you only looking for Vote posts and launching a statement like that at me was false.

You are looking at my post incorrectly.

The point of my post was not "Dumey only wanted Brohan to show up and then he NEVER UNVOTED HIM"

It was "Dumey made a choice to leave his vote on someone that did not have a chance to be lynched. Also, here is his original vote from 9 hours before end of day".

You are choosing to infer that my including your vote means it was the reason I have a problem with you keeping your vote on Brohan, and that's the part that is false. My problem with you leaving your vote on Brohan was entirely intrinsic to the fact that you left your vote on Brohan with 3 other options available.

EDumey posted...

I thought a little about the Chain Hunt thing, and looked up the Dead By Daylight wiki to see if I could find anything.

I kind of doubt there's some kind of hidden action that we need to do, like other people have tried. But might as well throw one out there myself!

##LamentConfiguration

Or something along those lines.

I think the more likely criteria we have to meet probably has to do with voting. Maybe once over half of town has voted, even with the voting restriction, we will solve the chain hunt. Or maybe it's something crazier like having multiple votes on the same person, or spreading votes out. Anything like that to solve the puzzle. But I can't make any good enough assumptions off the flavor to make any suggestions. Just that I think it might naturally resolve once we start voting if we're lucky.

In all seriousness, I think opening post said we were going to get details on how to resolve the chain hunt later on in the day. I assume some kind of mini game opens up after the first 24 hours.

PunishedBen posted...

In all seriousness, I think opening post said we were going to get details on how to resolve the chain hunt later on in the day. I assume some kind of mini game opens up after the first 24 hours.

Isquen posted...

If the day ends before The Box makes itself known, it will make its presence known during the night, though the Hunt will continue.

This wording seems to imply that The Box will only make its presence known if we meet some criteria. At least how I'm reading it.

It could also mean that if we decided to cast votes despite being unable to move them that the day would end when we lynch someone early, before enough time has passed for the box to reveal itself.

red13n posted...

Oh and the boxhunt sucks cause we feel stalled til we figure it out and no one has said anything that seems important at all on it unless I'm missing something.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

But now I would like to hear from red about whether or not he is STILL functionally a miller in his second form.

Just gonna bring this up again

fd, was your message from the black box? like can it be linked in a way? (black box/ airplane/recording/etc)

You know the star in Super Mario 64 Cool Cool Mountain where you lead the snowmans head to the snowmans body? What if we solve the puzzle by finding Gwyneth Paltrows decapitated body and leading it to the box?

^ overcompensating

I think FD is probably just town now based on responses today. Very adamant that killing Ulti yesterday was the right move - and not in a way that is focused on trying to convince us, but more like reiterating to himself that he played it right.

Also being more active and engaged than he needs to be if scum, especially placing himself in a town leadership position yesterday and standing by that those were his intentions.

And if you throw in the possibly poisoned thing, then yeah i really dont want to touch him today.

Where would you like to go then Ben?
I can understand wanting to see if him loving on borrowed time resolves itself. But unless we're following Corrik's lead to resolve the D1 lynch, I'm a little directionless. I'd like to push Crescent/Chang, but I'll give Chang a chance to actually catch up and post notes.

Chang when you catch up, I don't really care about you trying to defend whatever Crescent did. I'd be more interested in your thoughts on other players not super talked about already like Death or Wallz at end of day. I guess also Lea/BCT is a more relevant one that I'd like your read of.

Corrik7 posted...

Claim or die.

I'm not opposed to claiming, but I would like at least someone else to ask (no vote necessary, with locked votes now.) also, should I stick to day 1 role only? Or do you want both?

EDumey posted...

The thing that is giving me more of a red flag is FD's desire to narrow the lynch to two targets, and when an unsuspecting third player starts getting steam (from what I assume to be town votes), we see SEVERAL votes come down on Ulti to cement him in the lead. That's the suspicious behavior I'm keying in on. Not just being on Ulti in general.

But you also said that he wasn't pushing Ulti for being scummy. Like that's a whole different level of accusation. And you appeared to agree with his reasoning on some level, so it felt weird today to have you come in and jump on that.

wallmasterz posted...

I feel Ashe has singled me out for pretty lackluster reasons but its their first game of mafia in I dont know how long, so it could be scum just faking an opinion and sticking to it to minimize actual content/solving, or it could just be a rusty returning player.

I was turning around on you at the end of day 1 ftr. Just wasn't sure what direction to head, with me being busy at end of day and barely able to follow the topic.

Ashethan posted...

But you also said that he wasn't pushing Ulti for being scummy. Like that's a whole different level of accusation. And you appeared to agree with his reasoning on some level, so it felt weird today to have you come in and jump on that.

The important part of this is, "Did Ulti actually do something scummy that we think is lynchable offense?"

Lying to town is usually something scummy that we are okay lynching for.
Contradictions in claims are usually something scummy that we are okay lynching for.

Did Ulti actively lie to town, or was he just confused about his role DM?
Did Ulti have contradictions in what he claimed, or did he just jump to conclusions about what Lea was saying?

Obviously because hindsight is 20/20 we can look back and understand that Ulti was not acting from a scummy perspective. Just chaotic. So the question when looking at FD and other pressuring Ulti at end of day, is to identify if they actually thought Ulti was acting from a scum perspective, or were they opportunistic scum jumping onto a chaotic Ulti?

Honestly I don't know the answer to this, which is why I'm not focusing on it as much. But that's the rationale for saying that I think FD was pushing Ulti not because he was scum, but because Ulti was confused and sowing chaos. I think the important note here is that I'm not actively pushing FD for this part alone. I'm putting all of the context together to try and understand FD's motivations at end of day, not judging the individual parts on their own.

I'm putting together my spreadsheet of information and I did notice something.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


BlueCrystalTear posted...

Day 1 role was basically Vanilla Ninja. For whatever reason I had no actions, but I wouldn't be seen at night if for some reason I moved

Would Lea say "don't have game abilities" even when faced with what seems to be the Passive ability of being a Ninja? It's thin but something to think about. It's also possible that BCT/Lea's second flavor has the ability to generate an item or ability that could then be used by their ninja self?

Either way this is what I have so far. Using (V) and yellow highlights for flavor-only traits.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f0008783.png

It's gonna be a lot more cluttered and confusing than normal so I'll try to use color coding to make it easier. Yellow will continue to be vanilla traits. Maybe use something else for passive/active traits? Or to isolate scanning/information traits vs protection vs other? Open to suggestions to make it more digestible and currently including a column for day actions as well as night since they seem to be relevant enough to warrant letting us know when day actions lock/resolve.

That didn't come through very well by copy/pasting from Paint, lets try this isntead:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c90a7b94.png

Yellow for vanilla
Blue for passive?
Red for active?

Also I think Lea meant her traits didnt come directly from the Dead by Daylight game?

I think Gamefaqs doesn't like how wide it is. Let's try a vertical layout:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/d4cf3d48.png

I think that should work nicer, though it will still balloon sideways a bit as longer traits/descriptions get added. Might have to do vertical and split it between two pages of 8/9 players to be able to keep scaling it.

Can try blue/red next time. You think passive/active visualization is better than scanning/protection? Also am I missing anything?