Board 8 > Dead by Daylight Mafia Topic 5: Invasion of the Body Snatchers

(+) Yeah! (+)

I do like Walz blindly locking his own vote tho
I mean I dont like that it happened, but I feel like scum wouldnt just walk into that.

htaeD posted...

I do like Walz blindly locking his own vote tho
I mean I dont like that it happened, but I feel like scum wouldnt just walk into that.

idk, I feel like scum would know its coming and so they'd be just as likely to try to WIFOM us with thinking like that. In wallz wheelhouse? Maybe not but ~48 hours to plan makes me a bit less sure.

Well if its a scum ability, they would only have 24 hours to prepare...right?
Unless scum did know in advance that roles would flip around.
I forget if they did back in Star Wars/Mario mafia

htaeD posted...

Well if its a scum ability, they would only have 24 hours to prepare...right?

? why would it not be 48?

Because if this Box thing is something scum did, it has to be a thing that only became available to them during the last 24 hours of night1?
Then again it could be a lingering effect I suppose.

Point is probably moot anyway since it could just be the host himself adding the effect.

Actually wait nevermind I am dumb.
If this was a new power gained after the trait swap, It should not be able to activate right at the start of the new day.

Bleh its too early.

My couple of posts last night may have been a little confusing. I'll try to clarify for Ashethan and FD.

I don't have a problem with FD pressuring or voting Ulti on its own merits. I agree that Ulti dug his own grave with the chaos he caused. I myself was in topic and confused with how those events went down.

The thing that is giving me more of a red flag is FD's desire to narrow the lynch to two targets, and when an unsuspecting third player starts getting steam (from what I assume to be town votes), we see SEVERAL votes come down on Ulti to cement him in the lead. That's the suspicious behavior I'm keying in on. Not just being on Ulti in general.

I do think the alignment of Lea/BCT and Ben factor into my reading of this situation a lot.

At end of day, a flailing distraught Lea who has been throwing her vote around several different targets for little to no reason (she herself admits this), she then votes Ashethan for no discernable reason. Ulti (confirmed town) joins her on it, and town is perplexed by them "open wolfing". Ben, who is reading Lea and Ulti as town in this situation, joins them on the Ashethan lynch. Suddenly, because of Corrik's dead vote on there as well, Ashethan is tied for lynch leas, and other players are forced to vote for Ulti to keep him in the lead.a

If Lea/BCT is scum, then this means nothing, and it was just extra chaos thrown into the mix. If Lea was town, and Ben correctly read the situation as town as well, then that makes it a very interesting end of day mix-up.

I guess as an open question to anyone who wants to answer. How do you feel about the Lea/BCT slot, and Ben? Two town amigos that maybe made the Ashethan train a town venture? Or way too unclear to make that kind of assumption right now?

red13n posted...

I didn't expect to see people turning on FD and at a glance I don't think I feel the Ashe votes much either. It didn't really feel like much of a contested lynch.

So to be clear whats your read on both and howd you get there?

Ashethan posted...

So at what point did he go from "Let's leave this to FD" to "FD wasn't pushing Ulti for being scummy, just for his incomprehensible actions" We do have information about Ulti's alignment now, but that doesn't change FD's reasoning yesterday. He admitted that he found Ulti's thought process was confusing, and maybe that's it, and that's why he didn't join the Ulti lynch. But then, why did he just say 'leave it to FD' at that time?

To more directly answer this question, Ulti at the time was seeming to not understand the contradiction that everyone else was telling him. This was in regards to the whole "Lea said you were Vanilla, and you thought that was correct even though it doesn't say Vanilla anywhere in your role?" Usually if two people are having a back and forth, it's good etiquette to not get in the way and speak for them, so you don't muddy up the reactions. But I was confused by Ulti as well and jumped in, hence my "I should just be leaving it to FD" statement.

I do think in retrospect, we can try to appreciate that the situation was confusing. And people like FD who were questioning him at that time had every right to do so. The question then becomes, "Is Ulti intentionally causing chaos, which would be scummy? Or is he just bad at reading his DMs and quick to jump to conclusions, even if other people wouldn't jump to those same conclusions in his situation?" Because it seems like the latter is what actually happened. If it was reasonable to assume to, then FD continuing to push him looks worse. If the former is more reasonable, then it's more okay.

I think MOST people would think it looked intentional, especially with Lea and Ulti "open wolfing" during that last hour, which is why I'm not too harsh on people voting for Ulti in general. It's only the other context of the Ashethan competition that I'm really examining.

EDumey posted...

How do you feel about the Lea/BCT slot, and Ben? Two town amigos that maybe made the Ashethan train a town venture? Or way too unclear to make that kind of assumption right now?

I have been feeling neutral about Leas slot. BCT passed the vibe check for me upon checking in but Im hesitant to town pile him too fast because I have no frame of reference for BCTs scum game. But if I had to guess now, town.

Ben, I am still in wait and see mode.

FD had at least stated a reason already for suspecting me specifically, thinking I was flying under the radar. I disagree with that since joke posts aside I was still more active than half of the group d1, but town does have misguided/bad rationale at times. I am currently neutral on FD. If Ashe flips scum, Im a bit more suspicious of him as a result.

So it sounds like you're okay with Corrik wanting to resolve the other side of the D1 lynch, and see what we can learn from that?

I guess as an open question to anyone who wants to answer. How do you feel about the Lea/BCT slot, and Ben? Two town amigos that maybe made the Ashethan train a town venture? Or way too unclear to make that kind of assumption right now?

I was a bit lukewarm about Ben at the start, and his end of day1 is also not that great. But him joining the Ashethan lynch is actually one of the better things he's done in my eyes. Or at least its what I would expect a player to do if they wanted to keep Ulti alive. If Ashe is scum, his town odds go up drastically of course.

Lea is harder to get a bead on. Scumlea tends to lose steam quickly, but here she never even charged up because of her sickness (presumably). Votes were also piling up on her so she could just have been desperate to distract town.. and mind you, Ashe was an easy target at the time.
Basically the timing feels worse for her, if that makes sense.

I dont immediately hate the vote, but no Im not saying lets definitely lynch Ashe today. Im not inherently opposed to a Ulti memorial lynch. But I think its premature to say Corrik definitely wants Ashe lynched. Like I agree with the hasnt done much of anything assessment but that describes about a third of the player list imo. This looks like pressuring for info to me. Claim or die implies a satisfactory claim could persuade Corrik to move off Ashe, but Corrik is willing to risk his vote sitting there all day.

I feel Ashe has singled me out for pretty lackluster reasons but its their first game of mafia in I dont know how long, so it could be scum just faking an opinion and sticking to it to minimize actual content/solving, or it could just be a rusty returning player.

I also did wonder if Ashethan was the counterpush to save Wallz, but since FD dropped Wallz before Ashethan even gained traction, I think thats unlikely and that Wallz does not matter as much to the overall end of the day.

If Ashe is scum, his town odds go up drastically of course.

I should add that this applies to BCT/Lea as well of course.

Structuring posts and me do not mix.

This box thing is definitely annoying.

Does make me less motivated.

Though juat agreeing go kill someone and locking in votes could be a way around it but it sounds like it will just extend itself into night

Meanwhile the box is hardly affecting my voting habits.
Hohoho

htaeD posted...

Meanwhile the box is hardly affecting my voting habits.
Hohoho

Death is Santa Claus confirmed

Hi Sultan. What do you think about Lea/BCT and Ben?

EDumey posted...

Hi Sultan. What do you think about Lea/BCT and Ben?

Still do not like Ben.
Lea BCT is kind of interesting. The claim seems fake. I do think that BCT is smart enough to look at discord or even last topic to copy and paraphrase how Lea Claimed. But I am not sure I'm sure BCT will make himself known at some point

I thought a little about the Chain Hunt thing, and looked up the Dead By Daylight wiki to see if I could find anything.

I kind of doubt there's some kind of hidden action that we need to do, like other people have tried. But might as well throw one out there myself!

##LamentConfiguration

Or something along those lines.

I think the more likely criteria we have to meet probably has to do with voting. Maybe once over half of town has voted, even with the voting restriction, we will solve the chain hunt. Or maybe it's something crazier like having multiple votes on the same person, or spreading votes out. Anything like that to solve the puzzle. But I can't make any good enough assumptions off the flavor to make any suggestions. Just that I think it might naturally resolve once we start voting if we're lucky.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Still do not like Ben.
Lea BCT is kind of interesting. The claim seems fake. I do think that BCT is smart enough to look at discord or even last topic to copy and paraphrase how Lea Claimed. But I am not sure I'm sure BCT will make himself known at some point

Interesting. I know we were mind melding a bit D1. But you probably have some major disagreements with my town/scum list I posted last night then, right?

If its a voting thing, I would rather just wait and find out through a natural lynch

Its fine Dumey volunteers as tribute.

We could also just all vote for probably scumbell.

EDumey posted...

Because it seems like the latter is what actually happened. If it was reasonable to assume to, then FD continuing to push him looks worse. If the former is more reasonable, then it's more okay.

If you think it was just "ulti doesn't have reading comprehension, lets get him!" then you weren't reading.

Everything with the Lea scan and the various possible traits he was claiming to maybe have felt like a pattern of deception on his part.

Combine that with the fact that the thing he said most was how "obviously town" he was, a thing he also said often last game, as scum.

.

So yeah, I had every reason to consider Ulti the best possible lynch for a day 1. But then you? You and I appeared to be sharing a brain cell down the stretch with regard to the ulti interrogation, but then not only did you NOT move you vote onto someone more relevant, you left it on the person you had voted nearly 9 hours earlier. The person no one else was currently joining you to pressure. With this vote:

EDumey posted...

If I had to pick one of Ulti, Sultan, or Crescent to vote for right now. It'd probably be Crescent. I have individual reasons for thinking Sultan and Ulti are playing like their town selves. I am frustrated with Crescent but don't have a super strong leaning on her one way or the other.

##Vote: Brohan

EDumey posted...

Oops didn't mean to hit post yet that vote looks weird. Was going to say let's get Brohan back in here and question him instead of doing a "choose between the lesser of three evils" vote.

And so yeah, its entirely behavior like yours that has me preferring to make everyone make an actual choice and stand behind their day 1 vote. I know my reasons for voting Ulti, i stand behind my decision to do so given the options available at the time.

What is YOUR reason for not making a choice? For joining me virtually lockstep in raking Ulti across the coals only to leave a vote on someone utterly irrelevant?

htaeD posted...

If its a voting thing, I would rather just wait and find out through a natural lynch

We might not have the luxury of a natural lynch if our votes our currently stuck. But the opening day post does say

Isquen posted...

The Box will make its presence known at a later time.

I'm hoping that's before the end of 24 hours for anyone who may have a day action to use, but otherwise we're just gonna have to keep discussion going while we wait for that scenario to progress.

FD it is disgustingly disingenuous to pretend like I left my vote on Brohan for no reason other than inactivity. I justified keeping my vote where it was when I came back after Brohan posted more, and even defended it again, and tried a couple times to get people to pay attention to it and get more eyes on it.

I ALSO had multiple posts D1 where I discussed Ulti's alignment, and gave hesitance to thinking he was scum because of his reaction testing play matching up with how I see town Ulti, and his claim sharing a trait with Sultan. I even interacted with YOU on that. At the time that I had to leave, an hour before deadline, it wasn't clear enough to me that Ulti was acting maliciously. TO BE FAIR, I even admit in my first post of today that I think it's likely I could have ended up on Ulti had I stayed around to witness everything that happened after, but at that point in time, I thought Brohan was still a preferable lynch. And at that time, I had previously had Lea and Ulti on the Brohan lynch, and Death had only JUST moved his vote off because he left around the same time I did. The previous votals had Brohan at the top of the list because everything was so split! Framing me as leaving my vote somewhere useless when I genuinely thought Brohan was a potential lynch candidate is just not a truthful telling of events. Remember that Lea and Ulti swinging onto Ashethan only happened AFTER I left the topic.

EDumey posted...

Hi Brohan. I didn't like your initial vote on me, mostly because you just said, "I don't like this post of his either" without any kind of justification. Do you remember what about that quoted post you didn't like about me?

Also do you think you will have time to read at least a couple topics before deadline? I'd like some of your thoughts, even if it's just, "lean town these people for topic 1, think this person is scum because of topic 2"

Ashethan posted...

Aren't you pushing us in the direction of Brohan, or was that more in hopes that he comes back in?

EDumey posted...

Yes I don't know what type of things you feel about voting in general. But sometimes votes are just for pressure and not a strict, "I want this person dead."

Though if Brohan disappeared again without giving any substantial thoughts now that he's here, I would push for him to be actually lynched. No pressure Brohan. :)

EDumey posted...

Okay I'm home from work and heating up food real quick. Also I forgot until just now but because deadline is an hour later than normal, I will be missing deadline. So let's hopefully get a direction by 8 EST. I need to reread the Brohan stuff. I was glancing at my phone as it happened and seemed to think he was giving okay takes. Nothing I really agreed with, but seemed like he was playing the game.

EDumey posted...

I think I'm still okay with Brohan. Largely because his scum list is so incredibly disagreeable to me. I feel like people backed off him really fast because of the Lea thing, but even if he does have some memory of Lea, that doesn't really make his super old memory a valid thing to pull a suss out of a hat from.

Yeah you said those things spread pretty far apart over the course of several hours. Other then the couple of votes that temporarily joined on you Brohan (presumably for inactivity?) there was no steam behind a Brohan lynch. You can call your vote justified by those posts if you want, but I still see someone who had the opportunity to put their vote somewhere that would actually be relevant to the end of the day and instead chose to leave it on the person only they were pressuring at that point.

And hell, for all I know Brohan is scum and your read(or bus?) was right on the money. I can't say for sure what his alignment is, I can only say that he wasn't a realistic option and you decided to stay on him instead of making a choice on someone else.

I am very hungover or maybe still drunk, lady luck was not on my side last night but the drinks were free.

Did you guys have sny luck finding the box?

(also, lol, wallz, you dummy)

EDumey posted...

Remember that Lea and Ulti swinging onto Ashethan only happened AFTER I left the topic.

I understand that Ashe didn't get the rush of votes yet, but Ulti, Lea and Wallz all had multiple votes when you left. If you were so convinced ulti was town, why not Lea? Sure she had a vote on you so it might have had some bad optics, but surely she was a better choice for you than Ulti since you were apparently convinced he was town. You asked her some questions but then admitted that the questions might be odd coming from you, the person she had a vote on.

And then if not her, why not wallz? I'm looking to see if you said anything about wallz. So far I found a conversation from early topic 3 (page 1/2, 8-9 hours until lynch) with wallz about why he was still voting you, but you never really gave an opinion on wallz.

Was your only concern just talking to people who had votes on you?

Edumey there was like a good half hour in between me leaving/unvoting Brohan and you leaving tho.
And in that half hour you were the only one voting Brohan while Wallz was in the lead at that time along with Ulti.

FD ninja

Obellisk posted...

Did you guys have sny luck finding the box?

Isquen posted...

The Box will make its presence known at a later time.

This doesn't seem to have happened yet.

htaeD posted...

FD ninja

Feel free to let me ninja you a couple more times, and then come at me hard tomorrow for some reason ;)

It also may not happen at all until night2 ends, in a worst case scenario

...
##Show me the sights Pinhead

Obellisk posted...

I am very hungover or maybe still drunk, lady luck was not on my side last night but the drinks were free.

Did you guys have sny luck finding the box?

(also, lol, wallz, you dummy)

Hey drunk sbell what is the team not named solo queue called, we can confirm you town for answering

Btw I dont really like Wallz saying that Ulti's lynch could have been avoided if we knew about the secondary flavor thing.
I dont know why exactly tho.
Just comes across as fake pity I guess.

wallmasterz posted...

Hey drunk sbell what is the team not named solo queue called, we can confirm you town for answering

I dunno how I would know that. was that in a host post and you are testing to see if I'm better at reading important info than you are?

htaeD posted...

Btw I dont really like Wallz saying that Ulti's lynch could have been avoided if we knew about the secondary flavor thing.
I dont know why exactly tho.
Just comes across as fake pity I guess.

its a joke

Ulti was already saying he was confused as hell and thats before he even knew he wouldve received another pm.

Called humor, death. its funny death. well its supposed to be

Oh.
I guess you had to be there and experience Ulti's end of day1 to get it.

Obellisk posted...

I dunno how I would know that. was that in a host post and you are testing to see if I'm better at reading important info than you are?

I already know youre better at reading important info than I am.

Sbell when youre town you ask people questions and pass forth ideas and do things. When youre scum you stall and just joke around with no serious content and what youre doing this game

htaeD posted...

Btw I dont really like Wallz saying that Ulti's lynch could have been avoided if we knew about the secondary flavor thing.

Exactly. A secondary flavor doesn't affect anything ulti said or did in relation to the fake scan and his first flavor.

The only thing it did was gave me false hope that he was really scum and his body was morphing into that of a killer to show that we actually got it right. But then I realized he was still "solo queue" even in that other form. Then I got my own secondary role and it's clear that town/scum is not going to be a survivor/killer flavor split.

But I digress, I clocked that as an odd comment for wallz to have made as well. I'm not sure what problem he believes it solves within the context of the day 1 discussion.

hey, I didn't start this game at an inopportune time. Dont blame me for my inactivity, blame your host, or god.

htaeD posted...

Oh.
I guess you had to be there and experience Ulti's end of day1 to get it.

No youre good I wasnt clear.

I just thought its funny how much ulti complained about the games complexity and he didnt even know thered be another pm coming lol

wallmasterz posted...

its a joke

In fairness to death, I didn't "get it" either. (as should be obvious by my last post)

Yes, so AFTER Brohan had been in the topic and posting, I reviewed what I saw from him, and reevaluated that I still thought he was a good lynch option, for the stated reason. You also didn't quote where I followed up with Lea asking more probing questions, or interacted with Crescent to point her to my reasoning, getting people to actually acknowledge the posts I made and not just push them off to the side.

Again, until Death unvoted, Brohan was tied for being the lynch leader. And I actually provided a reason for wanting to lynch him, so your post in #126 where you tried to frame me as sitting on him because of the original pressure vote is ENTIRELY false. I don't really care for your opinion that he wasn't relevant. At the point I left the day, he was still my preferred lynch over Ulti!

Honestly the only reason that Brohan train lost steam, is because Lea got demoralized for the personal stuff that got dragged up, and unvoted to distance herself from it, but obviously we don't need to talk too much on that. I just really don't like this framing you're trying to push on me that it was obviously not a realistic option. I don't think you can really prove that at all. Seeing as how the second highest lynch on the final votals was practically Lea, Ulti, and Ben doing a random special. It could have just as easily been Brohan that got specialed because of my sitting vote.

Just to not get too focused on the mud you're flinging my way, I'd like to reiterate that you didn't' want Ashethan up there. You wanted Wallz as the second option. And when a third player you didn't expect shot up in votes, that made you uncomfortable. How do you feel about Crescent, IGCD, and Brohan being late votes on Ulti with you, FD? Let's be charitable and assume you're town that made an understandable mistake. If Ashethan was actually scum, and one of Crescent/Chang, IGCD, or Brohan was scum that voted to keep Ulti in the lead, which would it be?

Obellisk posted...

hey, I didn't start this game at an inopportune time. Dont blame me for my inactivity, blame your host, or god.

ok I believe you that its inopportune is it appropriate for me to ask what youre up to? Sbeel does Vegas?

Obellisk posted...

Dont blame me for my inactivity, blame your host, or god.

I actually recognize this as a joke.

Wallz, take note.