Board 8 > Rate the Final Fantasy Characters Results and Discussion

(+) Yeah! (+)

The rape thing with Setzer is weird. Like, do people think Bowser rapes Peach every time he kidnaps her? Does Ganon rape Zelda?

FF is far more grounded than Mario or Zelda so I don't think those are worthwhile comparisons, but tbh I think kidnapping and forcing someone to marry you is bad enough regardless of whether there's any sexual assault involved! It's a bizarre way to introduce a character that the player is supposed to like.

andylt posted...

FF is far more grounded than Mario or Zelda so I don't think those are worthwhile comparisons, but tbh I think kidnapping and forcing someone to marry you is bad enough regardless of whether there's any sexual assault involved! It's a bizarre way to introduce a character that the player is supposed to like.

.not really

especially not VI

Ashethan posted...

Seymour on the other hand finishes above Wakka, and just below Lulu even though he's also a creepy guy who kidnaps people and forces them to marry him (I swear this wasn't intentional!)

Seymour doesn't actually kidnap Yuna or force her to marry him though, he just asks her to

MZero posted...

Seymour doesn't actually kidnap Yuna or force her to marry him though, he just asks her to

Well this is a take

MacArrowny posted...

The rape thing with Setzer is weird. Like, do people think Bowser rapes Peach every time he kidnaps her? Does Ganon rape Zelda?

"Mama? Mama Peach? I'm your... Mama? So you're Bowser's son..."

MZero posted...

Seymour doesn't actually kidnap Yuna or force her to marry him though, he just asks her to

He absolutely kidnaps her from Home, and Seymour forces the ceremony to conclude after Tidus and company show up to rescue her. You can say he doesn't "force" her, but he knows Yuna doesn't want to marry him.

But the standards for good guys and bad guys are different. Seymour is supposed to do despicable things.

That being said, I certainly never got the sense of any sort of foul play from Setzer. Did anyone ding Rikku for kidnapping Yuna or any of the other summoners?

Leonhart4 posted...

He absolutely kidnaps her from Home, and Seymour forces the ceremony to conclude after Tidus and company show up to rescue her. You can say he doesn't "force" her, but he knows Yuna doesn't want to marry him.

She tells the party in the Thunder Plains that she decided to marry him, and during the wedding ceremony Seymour says something like "you'd play at marriage just to send me?". It's heavily implied that Yuna went along with the whole thing and wasn't forced into it or kidnapped. Heck, she proves like 10 seconds after the wedding that she could have gotten away if she wanted to.

If you want to say he forced her to marry him because of the very last part, that's a fair argument, but like if she just says no from the beginning and doesn't try her risky plan he probably wouldn't have done anything.

I don't even like Seymour and I'm not trying to defend him here, but that whole arc was about how Yuna was trying to do everything by herself and got herself into that situation by not relying on the others

Eh, I don't think Seymour is the type of guy to take "no" very well, especially considering the reason he wants to marry her. He's manipulating Yuna into doing what he wants because he knows she puts honor and duty before reason.

Like it's not strictly forcing in the sense of telling her she's going to do it, but it's taking advantage of her nature and the situation to get her to do something she doesn't really want to do.

Leonhart4 posted...

Did anyone ding Rikku for kidnapping Yuna or any of the other summoners?

Obviously Rikku kidnapped Yuna to rape her, and all the Setzer haters would agree.

Not to mention Tantalus kidnapping Garnet at the start of FFIX...

andylt posted...

tbh I think kidnapping and forcing someone to marry you is bad enough regardless of whether there's any sexual assault involved! It's a bizarre way to introduce a character that the player is supposed to like.

yeah, this is my issue here. he's introduced like a haha classic moustache twirling villain. i don't even think that it is in character for setzer to actually do anything bad, but the framing of his introduction still makes his character awkward right out the gate.

also i just don't like this cliche much lmao

Hey remember that scene from IV where you were drugged and turned into a frog or pig or whatever

was Cecil raped then?

MacArrowny posted...

Obviously Rikku kidnapped Yuna to rape her, and all the Setzer haters would agree.

We know the Al Bhed kidnapped the summoners to put a halt to the pilgrimage, because the characters and the game explicitly tell us this. We can debate the ethics of such actions sure, but it's ridiculous to act like this is a 1:1 situation with Setzer kidnapping a woman with the stated intent of forcing her to marry him.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8c134dda.jpg
He says this then locks Celes in the room, are people seriously acting like it's absurd to see this as a possible intent of assault? I'm surprised how controversial this is, honestly.

It has literally never occurred to me once in my life before now

I can't recall the specifics of how Yuna got taken by Seymour at Home, but she did have that half baked plan of going through with the wedding to send Seymour. It didn't end well for her, but she willingly went along with it up until that point.

MacArrowny posted...

Not to mention Tantalus kidnapping Garnet at the start of FFIX...

Literally the first thing she says to ZIdane is "Please kidnap me!"

A lot of false equivalences here but still I don't think the tone of FFVI should lead you to believe something like that.

They would have kidnapped her whether she wanted them to or not

But they were also benevolent criminals, FF is full of those

Except Setzer

Well, in Garnet's case, Tantalus was hired by her uncle to kidnap her, who happens to be the head of state of the country that they're headquartered in. It's not like they were kidnapping Garnet for their own sick pleasure like Setzer.

Again, they're benevolent criminals so it's okay

Also we really should be dinging Cloud, Barret, and Tifa for acts of terrorism that were actively killing innocent people

And Wakka for being racist of course

Ah, so crimes are okay to commit if you're working for the government? Good to know that Kefka's actually the good guy in FF6!

Do the heroes kill every human enemy they come across?

pjbasis posted...

Do the heroes kill every human enemy they come across?

Only if you're Nathan Drake

until the last boss

The difference between them and Setzer is that they all have to face the consequences of their actions or the game goes out of its way to explain why that's the greater good (even if Garnet didn't want to come along, kidnapping her is still the greater good given what Brahne did.) Wheras the party handwaves what Setzer just did and then he gets a backstory later that makes no sense with what he did there.

pjbasis posted...

Do the heroes kill every human enemy they come across?

That's why Kiryu is the best video game protagonist. He's never killed anyone.

andylt posted...

He says this then locks Celes in the room, are people seriously acting like it's absurd to see this as a possible intent of assault? I'm surprised how controversial this is, honestly.

Yeah I can definitely understand how this looks bad.

As has been mentioned, genre, audience, and context can't be ignored. It reminds me of when people say the soldiers in South Figaro raped Celes. No, they didn't.

Setzer tries to kidnap Maria and then Celes because he's a scoundrel / pirate / bad boy, much in the same way Han Solo was in the original cut of Star Wars. The archetype itself is misogynist/toxic, and it's certainly not "okay" to lock women in rooms and kidnap them. But I think the game is quick to show that this was largely for show/reputation purposes, not because he's a sexual deviant. He also does get his comeuppance for all this, since he loses his airship and is found basically drinking himself to death in Kohlingen in the World of Ruin.

Seymour's waaaaaayyyy worse if you're voting purely on how much of a creep someone is.

Celes allowed herself to be kidnapped though, so it's okay

Top 20:

1. Vivi Orniter - 8.82
2. Auron - 8.74
3. Cidolfus Telamon - 8.72
4. Aerith Gainsborough - 8.50
5. Dagger - 8.39
6. Cloud Strife - 8.30
7. Clive Rosfield - 8.25
8. Rikku - 8.13
9. Yuna - 8.12
10. Rydia - 8.12
11. Squall Leonhart - 8.08
12. Kefka - 8.04
13. Tifa Lockhart - 8.03
14. Torgal - 7.86
15. Tidus - 7.85
16. Barret Wallace - 7.74
17. Celes Chere - 7.66
18. Rinoa Heartilly - 7.61
19. Edgar Roni Figaro - 7.59
20. Alisaie Leveilleur - 7.54

Yesterday's Results:
Reno - 6.44
Rude - 6.04
Gaffgarion - 5.40
Alisaie - 7.54

Reno and Rude rate just above Cait Sith, but below Rufus by a little. And Reno rates above Rude.

Gaffgarion rates below Algus, but above Marche

And Alisaie rates in the top 20, and is the highest FFXIV character so far!

Mewtwo59 posted...

Wheras the party handwaves what Setzer just did and then he gets a backstory later that makes no sense with what he did there.

Makes perfect sense unless you're trying to rationalize disliking Setzer by square pegging rapist into his character

colliding posted...

But I think the game is quick to show that this was largely for show/reputation purposes, not because he's a sexual deviant. He also does get his comeuppance for all this, since he loses his airship and is found basically drinking himself to death in Kohlingen in the World of Ruin.

Correct interpretation of the character not at odds with anything from the game

Top 20:

1. Vivi Orniter - 8.82
2. Auron - 8.74
3. Cidolfus Telamon - 8.72
4. Aerith Gainsborough - 8.50
5. Dagger - 8.39
6. Cloud Strife - 8.30
7. Clive Rosfield - 8.25
8. Rikku - 8.13
9. Yuna - 8.12
10. Rydia - 8.12
11. Squall Leonhart - 8.08
12. Kefka - 8.04
13. Tifa Lockhart - 8.03
14. Torgal - 7.86
15. Tidus - 7.85
16. Barret Wallace - 7.74
17. Celes Chere - 7.66
18. Rinoa Heartilly - 7.61
19. Edgar Roni Figaro - 7.59
20. Zidane Tribal - 7.51

Recent Results:
Shantotto - 5.12
Minwu - 5.17
Hojo - 5.30
FuSoYa - 4.98
Biggs - 5.70
Wedge - 5.70
Kiros - 6.06
Ward - 5.51

Shantotto proves fairly unpopular. Not surprising given how few have played FFXI, though she's appeared in numerous other games as FFXI's representative.

Minwu is the second highest FF2 character, which isn't saying much. But he rates well above Maria, who is in distant third.

Hojo rates the lowest of all FFVII characters so far, but we've got many more to go.

FuSoYa rates a little above Edward, but below Rosa and Yang.

Biggs and Wedge rate the exact same. Everyone didn't rate them exactly the same, but they ended up the same. Both rate above Cait Sith.

Kiros rates ahead of Ward and above Biggs and Wedge. While Ward doesn't rate quite as well.

shantottos most significant appearance is probably WoFF tbqh

Based on my quick math, after last round there's a new #1 (by a lot)

KamikazePotato posted...

Based on my quick math, after last round there's a new #1 (by a lot)

Yes there is. But not only that -- we have a new worst character. So congrats to Vaan. I'll have a new day up tomorrow.

Whoa, he must be a spoiler bad guy from 14 I don't know about yet.

Top 20:

1. Emet-Selch - 9.27
2. Vivi Orniter - 8.82
3. Auron - 8.74
4. Cidolfus Telamon - 8.72
5. Aerith Gainsborough - 8.50
6. Dagger - 8.39
7. Cloud Strife - 8.30
8. Clive Rosfield - 8.25
9. Rikku - 8.13
10. Yuna - 8.12
11. Rydia - 8.12
12. Squall Leonhart - 8.08
13. Kefka - 8.04
14. Tifa Lockhart - 8.03
15. Torgal - 7.86
16. Tidus - 7.85
17. Barret Wallace - 7.74
18. Celes Chere - 7.66
19. Rinoa Heartilly - 7.61
20. Dion Lesage - 7.59

Yesterday's Results:

Vayne - 4.60
Emet-Selch - 9.27
Dion Lesage - 7.59
Mewt Randall - 3.13

Vayne rates just ahead of Penelo.

Emet-Selch soars above literally everyone, with our first 9 rating! Universally loved by those who played him, his lowest vote was a 7!

Dion is very well liked, and lands in the top 20. Not surprising considering he's The Dominant for Bahamut

And Vaan gets a huge reprieve as Mewt is rated as the current worst Final Fantasy character, well below Vaan. Nobody rated him above a 5.5

Emet-Selch isn't my absolute favorite, but...yeah, deserved.

Justice for Vaan. He sucks but he isn't the worst.

Emet-Selch may not be the best FF character, but he's definitely objectively the best FFXIV character.

Vivi's score still seems more impressive to me considering he got like 3x the number of votes

Top 20:

1. Emet-Selch - 9.13
2. Vivi Orniter - 8.83
3. Auron - 8.75
4. Cidolfus Telamon - 8.72
5. Aerith Gainsborough - 8.54
6. Dagger - 8.41
7. Cloud Strife - 8.34
8. Clive Rosfield - 8.25
9. Rydia - 8.17
10. Yuna - 8.16
11. Rikku - 8.15
12. Squall Leonhart - 8.12
13. Tifa Lockhart - 8.08
14. Kefka - 8.01
15. Torgal - 7.86
16. Tidus - 7.85
17. Barret Wallace - 7.74
18. Beatrix - 7.83
19. Celes Chere - 7.69
20. Rinoa Heartilly - 7.68

Yesterday's Results:
Beatrix - 7.83
Yunalesca - 5.39
Scarlet - 5.21
Anabella Rosfield - 6.07

Beatrix rates in the Top 20 and finishes higher than Zidane.

Yunalesca is the currently lowest rated FFX character, a little below Kimahri.

Scarlet is the currently lowest rated FFVII character, slightly below Hojo.

And Anabella Rosfield gets a pretty mixed reception, with many people absolutely despising her while others love how terrible she is. But is also the lowest rated FFXVI character, though that's not saying much at the moment.

Ashethan posted...

Beatrix rates in the Top 20 and finishes higher than Zidane.

excellent

why is dagger so high

A mystery to this very day

voters smokin' dat Loco Weed

She doesn't have as many haters as Tifa and Yuna.

colliding posted...

why is dagger so high

She got almost all high votes

We're running out of characters almost.

Wanted to do an all turtle day, but alas there's only two turtles.

Ashethan posted...

We're running out of characters almost.

Wanted to do an all turtle day, but alas there's only two turtles.

Ghido, Cagnazzo, and just the straight Adamantoise enemy

also sorry for not rating a lot, just wanted to maybe think about doing my own opinions through a topic after finally organizing them (also because I would just be giving a lot of 6s and 7s)

colliding posted...

why is dagger so high

The voters couldn't concentrate