Board 8 > The Absolute State Of The German National Team (Soccer Fall Discussion)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Their last five games:

• Lost to Belgium 3-2
• Drew with Ukraine 3-3
• Lost to Poland 1-0
• Lost to Colombia 2-0
• Just lost to Japan (again) 4-1

They should be thankful that they're the hosts of the next Euros because lord knows how bad they would've performed in the qualifiers. Needless to say, Hansi Flick needs to go. He is simply not the man for the job. But given how poor Germany has been since 2018 there's clearly something wrong here with this German football generation.

Also, Italy were unable to extract revenge against North Macedonia tonight and drew 1-1.

There does seem to be something wrong with German football in general. Even the club teams haven't looked as strong as they have in past times. Wonder if maybe their own success went to their head and now they are too arrogant to adapt their team/playstyle to suit the qualities of the players/weaknesses of the opponent.

Meanwhile England have one of the best squads in the world but won't go anywhere because the manager is clueless.

It is the end result of a decade of every German player developing in the exact same way. They are all good at the exact same thing, but none of them have different, complimentary skillsets. It's absolutely wild that they got to this point and I don't know what it is in player development there that caused it.

Also Tomiyasu fuckin dominated that game you love to see it.

Southgate despite his flaws at least has made the England squad more competitive in the main competitions than almost any other manager England has ever had outside of Ramsey who actually won England the World Cup almost 60 years ago.

paulg235 posted...

Just lost to Japan (again) 4-1

o ya go my japan

Southgate is just doing what every manager since Ramsey has done. Beat what they're expected to and then lose to the better teams. The only exception of course was to the current German team in the Euros.

As for Japan they are showing everyone they weren't just lucky at the World Cup. They have excellent teamwork and will be a team everyone will want to avoid come the next World Cup.

https://www.dfb.de/news/detail/hansi-flick-als-bundestrainer-freigestellt-254769/

Hansi Flick sacked. Rudi Voller will manage the team for the France game.

That's Germany winning the Euros next year then. They must've been desperate to put Voller back in charge but whoever the next manager is will probably win it.

shane15 posted...

Southgate is just doing what every manager since Ramsey has done. Beat what they're expected to and then lose to the better teams. The only exception of course was to the current German team in the Euros.

Untrue for Capello (with a better squad), Hodgson, Taylor, McLaren, Ericsson (who 100% should have beaten Portugal on one of those two occasions). Argentina 98 weren't exactly some ridiculous side either.

England had a poor and unfancied squad in 2018 and got to the SFs due to a favourable draw, then lost to the best team (Italy) and the best squad (France). It's overly simplistic to put those two losses in the same bracket as Portugal 04/06, or the vaunted Robson failing to qualify for a tournament/not getting out of the groups.

There's also the way England have played at tournaments being so much better in general. England under Robson beat Cameroon on penalties, under Capello they drew with Algeria and finished 2nd in an easy group that Southgate would have had little to no trouble finishing top of, and under Ericssen struggled to beat Trinidad and Tobago. Southgate's England have beaten Panama 6-1, Senegal 3-0 and Ukraine 4-0 (the latter two in knockout matches; contrast struggling with Ecuador in 2006 for instance). He is so obviously the best manager England have had since Ramsey and there's no guarantee that a manager with a better record at club level would do better in that job.

This comparison between Southgate and other managers is incredibly surface imo. He's a clear cut above any of them.

Germany is now a basketball nation.

I mean he's better than most of them but the point still stands he can't get the job done when it matters. Doesn't matter if you're beating teams 10-0 or crawling over the line with a 1-0 AET if you fall as soon as you face one of the favourites.

It's the most competitive sport on the planet and knockout tournaments are decided by the slimmest of margins.
There's only so much a manager can do to affect the result in these situations.

But he's done pretty well for a number of tournaments. Give him the Belgium team Martinez messed up and I think he might have done a little bit better.

shane15 posted...

I mean he's better than most of them but the point still stands he can't get the job done when it matters. Doesn't matter if you're beating teams 10-0 or crawling over the line with a 1-0 AET if you fall as soon as you face one of the favourites.

He lost to the best team of the tournament and the best squad in the tournament. The only times another England manager has had to deal with that is 2002 and 1986. "The point" is surface. You are reducing a guy who has clearly done a good job to impossibly slim margins that include France's first goal being a foul on Saka that wasn't given and a freakish penalty miss, and equating that to, say, Capello's idiotic starting XI vs. Germany in 2010 (as well as his generally awful management of that tournament) and Ericsson's rank inability to beat a decent Portugal with a superior squad. Those circumstances are not equal.

shane15 posted...

I mean he's better than most of them but the point still stands he can't get the job done when it matters. Doesn't matter if you're beating teams 10-0 or crawling over the line with a 1-0 AET if you fall as soon as you face one of the favourites.

It's football. Not winning the WC doesn't mean you're bad. England is a second (sometimes third) tier team. Any time they make quarters the job was done successfully, and even Ro16 can be a valid and viable result depending on who they run into.

Look he's one of the best managers we've had. The trouble is the only way England will win anything with any manager not just Southgate is if we get a lucky draw that includes the final. If Switzerland make the final of Euro 2020 then we win it. If Russia beat Croatia in 2018 then we make the final. We have to rely on other nations to take out the big boys. It's almost like a curse at this point the amount of times it's happened.