Current Events > Black Conservatives and White Liberals (45 minutes)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I mean the black conservatives made some good points too from what I've seen of the video. Affirmative action making them feel self conscious when they're in school. Not feeling like they're missing out that much. There being some corrupt members in the BLM movement. Didn't finish the video.

Squall28 posted...

I mean the black conservatives made some good points too from what I've seen of the video.

Who cares, they're conservatives. Fuck 'em.

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Who cares, they're conservatives. Fuck 'em.

Don't have to. They fuck 'emselves unless they're rich.

Squall28 posted...

I mean the black conservatives made some good points too from what I've seen of the video. Affirmative action making them feel self conscious when they're in school. Not feeling like they're missing out that much. There being some corrupt members in the BLM movement. Didn't finish the video.

The corrupt BLM members
https://theintercept.com/2023/02/07/fbi-denver-racial-justice-protests-informant/

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Ehh I guess I kinda like having a high military budget. Feels nice knowing 99% of the world if not 100% ain't stupid enough to fuck with us on our own terf.

There are other things but I ain't 100% behind them either.

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If a conservative is making "a good point", like actually a good point and not the dumbest fucking backwards shit ever that just sounds good if you don't know better, there's probably a legitimate person making those same points - only better and in conjunction with a broader view of the world that is worth considering - right now, and earlier, and you'd already know of them if you were paying attention to actual people and not the worst trash in the world.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

Ehh I guess I kinda like having a high military budget. Feels nice knowing 99% of the world if not 100% ain't stupid enough to fuck with us on our own terf.

Turf. But yeah it's no wonder countries like Russia aim to fix elections.
US conservatives can do some real damage in-between forgetting how to walk.

Squall28 posted...

Affirmative action making them feel self conscious when they're in school.

How is this a good point?

Racist white dudes shaming black dudes for affirmative action (even though white women are the biggest beneficiaries of it) is not an argument against Affirmative Action.

White guys certainly don't have to feel bad when their familial connections get them into Harvard or Princeton

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I mean I said them in my post. I found the affirmative action one kind of sad. Some people work so hard to get in, but then they have that affirmative action thing over his head. Like is he actually good enough? For the record, I'm okay with affirmative action, and think rich parents are more of a problem. I just found it to be a sad story, and I can see why he doesn't want it.

The whole white savior thing being very patronizing. The woman was saying how they're taking away her voice, and the guy literally cuts her off while she was saying that.

Most of the people on there were pretty reasonable except that one guy in the one piece shirt.

Avirosb posted...

Turf. But yeah it's no wonder countries like Russia aim to fix elections.
US conservatives can do some real damage in-between forgetting how to walk.

Not a word I write very often so I'll take a L on misspelling it.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

Not a word I write very often so I'll take a L on misspelling it.

Not a big L, it was in good humor.

Avirosb posted...

Not a big L, it was in good humor.

I wasnt really sweating it

I was a kid who aced spelling tests but then would get dinged on reports for misspellings lol.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

How is this a good point?

Racist white dudes shaming black dudes for affirmative action (even though white women are the biggest beneficiaries of it) is not an argument against Affirmative Action.

White guys certainly don't have to feel bad when their familial connections get them into Harvard or Princeton

It takes from them a feeling of accomplishment, and there's an overall sentiment in the video that they don't like the feeling of being treated like their helpless. I agree that the college admission process is rigged though. Family connections are much worse. They mentioned it in the video, there's certainly something empowering about the conservative side's belief that if you work hard enough, you can do it vs the you're disadvantaged, you need help idea although an uneven playing field is the reality.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

How is this a good point?

Racist white dudes shaming black dudes for affirmative action (even though white women are the biggest beneficiaries of it) is not an argument against Affirmative Action.

White guys certainly don't have to feel bad when their familial connections get them into Harvard or Princeton

The video also brings up the issue of white and asian students missing out because if a schools population has enough of them, they arent included in the affirmative action.

I havent researched to see if its bullshit, but Xavier in the video also mentioned that black students who enter with aid of affirmative action also are ill prepared and perform poorly more than other demographics. Jubilee put a little statistic on the screen so the idea comes from somewhere.

Its also brought up that optically, having affirmative action is a hard thing to get the population behind in current day, if that even matters (doesnt to me, but its a point nonetheless).

I do feel like if Chandler and Alec fucked off, the video did have interesting discussion tbh.

Unfortunately, TC did a shit job of presenting the video. At least post the prompts.

Squall28 posted...

It takes from them a feeling of accomplishment, and there's an overall sentiment in the video that they don't like the feeling of being treated like their helpless.

The inferiority complex comes with the territory, it's only an inherent trait of being a conservative.

Toonstrack posted...

Conservatives and Republicans aren't the same any more than democrats and progressives are the same.

This is apples to oranges and you know it.

The Democrats have basically become the party for anyone that isn't a card-carrying white supremacist fueled by culture war nonsense, and that includes former Republicans who are basically still Republicans but just don't want to spend their entire political career kissing Trump's disgusting orange asshole. That's what happens when a political party goes so far-right that even the moderate right is turned off.

But that does not change the fact that historically, conservatives and Republicans in America are basically interchangeable. The Republican Party is almost exclusively filled with people who would refer to themselves as conservatives and there's a reason you don't see any progressive or liberal Republicans. You're just being pedantic because you don't want to actually discuss anything.

Democratic Gandalf: I am the Republicans, or rather Republicans as they should be.

Squall28 posted...

It takes from them a feeling of accomplishment, and there's an overall sentiment in the video that they don't like the feeling of being treated like their helpless.

A lot of this self-consciousness stems from conservative ideology though. Conservatism largely argues that people should achieve their success through their own bootstraps and any handouts or assistance fucks up the socioeconomic hierarchy (the "meritocracy"), even if said assistance is meant to correct or account for innate systematic disadvantages. It shames people for needing outside help and even goes so far as to create narratives that some people only got to where they are due to policies like Affirmative Action. Most of the time, conservatives don't even want to acknowledge that these disadvantages even exist.

In other words, the only reason this kid is self-conscious about "Affirmative Action" is because he thinks like a conservative.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

This is apples to oranges and you know it.

Its not. Its page 1 paragraph 2 of understanding the spectrum of politics here.

The Democrats have basically become the party for anyone that isn't a card-carrying white supremacist fueled by culture war nonsense, and that includes former Republicans who are basically still Republicans but just don't want to spend their entire political career kissing Trump's disgusting orange asshole. That's what happens when a political party goes so far-right that even the moderate right is turned off.

Even if I wanted to grant you this that only proves my point.

But that does not change the fact that historically, conservatives and Republicans in America are basically interchangeable. The Republican Party is almost exclusively filled with people who would refer to themselves as conservatives and there's a reason you don't see any progressive or liberal Republicans. You're just being pedantic because you don't want to actually discuss anything.

You literally agree with me but are arguing for the sake of arguing. No, conservatives are not interchangeable with Republicans.

You yourself detailed why that is the case. Republicans have not stayed in the same spot they've always been, and neither r have conservatives and niether have democrats.

You want a sanitized, easy srgument with no discussion. It is you who js trying to remove all complexity and nuancd from the situation.

Good ol' party of Lincoln seems to favor feelings over facts nowadays.
I don't know what they're trying to conserve but it's not party ideology. That whole thing has regressed somewhat as of late.

Wow, the conservatives made some really good points in the video.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

A lot of this self-consciousness stems from conservative ideology though. Conservatism largely argues that people should achieve their success through their own bootstraps and any handouts or assistance fucks up the socioeconomic hierarchy (the "meritocracy"), even if said assistance is meant to correct or account for innate systematic disadvantages. It shames people for needing outside help and even goes so far as to create narratives that some people only got to where they are due to policies like Affirmative Action. Most of the time, conservatives don't even want to acknowledge that these disadvantages even exist.

In other words, the only reason this kid is self-conscious about "Affirmative Action" is because he thinks like a conservative.

No black person thinks they only got something because of outside help. We orchestrated an entire civil rights movement and shifted the landscape of the country almost entirely on our own.

Some Black people don't want to be given the PERCEPTION that they are being handed things due to their blackness. However I agree with you that AA is not an example of that, flawed as it is.

Again, you're taking a complex issue with a ton of cultural influence and history behind it and reducing it down to a few easy to digest soundbites. It's surface level.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

A lot of this self-consciousness stems from conservative ideology though. Conservatism largely argues that people should achieve their success through their own bootstraps and any handouts or assistance fucks up the socioeconomic hierarchy (the "meritocracy"), even if said assistance is meant to correct or account for innate systematic disadvantages. It shames people for needing outside help and even goes so far as to create narratives that some people only got to where they are due to policies like Affirmative Action. Most of the time, conservatives don't even want to acknowledge that these disadvantages even exist.

In other words, the only reason this kid is self-conscious about "Affirmative Action" is because he thinks like a conservative.

He said it happened to him while he was a liberal. Pride is not an exclusively conservative trait.

Squall28 posted...

He said it happened to him while he was a liberal. Pride is not an exclusively conservative trait.

Wonder what he feels about immigrants.

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Well, I'm not a conservative, so I have that going for me.

Toonstrack posted...

Even if I wanted to grant you this that only proves my point.

It literally doesn't. A Republican who switched parties to appeal to moderates but still holds the same Republican beliefs is still a Republican. Just like how Kyrsten Sinema isn't a progressive just because she grifted progressive votes to boost her political career.

Toonstrack posted...

You literally agree with me but are arguing for the sake of arguing. No, conservatives are not interchangeable with Republicans.

You can argue with yourself on that one. Literally anybody that pays attention to American politics at all is aware of the fact that traditional conservative ideology (less regulation, tax cuts for the wealthy, decrease of funding for public programs and services, focus on traditionalism, etc.,) are almost exclusively supported by the Republican Party. The "Dems" that support these policies are treated as nuisances within their own party, rarely hold onto power if better alternatives exist and the Democrat platform as a whole doesn't support these things.

Again, you know damn well what people are talking about, but are just playing difficult to derail the discussion.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

It literally doesn't. A Republican who switched parties to appeal to moderates but still holds the same Republican beliefs is still a Republican.

So all conservatives are Republicans including the ones that vote against Republicans? How does that make sense?

If you're trying to draw a line saying they are all the same and vote against their interests than how does that also include those that don't vote against their interest?

Just like how Kyrsten Sinema isn't a progressive just because she grifted progressive votes to boost her political career.

That's a grifter. Im talking about VOTERS. Civillians. And besides, even that is better than the alternative.

You can argue with yourself on that one. Literally anybody that pays attention to American politics at all is aware of the fact that traditional conservative ideology (less regulation, tax cuts for the wealthy, decrease of funding for public programs and services, focus on traditionalism, etc.,) are almost exclusively supported by the Republican Party. The "Dems" that support these policies are treated as nuisances within their own party, rarely hold onto power if better alternatives exist and the Democrat platform as a whole doesn't support these things.

So what DOES the dem platform support then. I know you dont consider it progressive, or even leftist, so what is it then?

Again, you know damn well what people are talking about, but are just playing difficult to derail the discussion.

Me calling you out for repeatedly having surface level, flagrantly reductive takes on literally everything that ignores all history and nuance and tries to paint an entire cultural entity with one big red brush is not derailing anything its actually keeping it on the correct track.

I dont know what you're talking about, I know what you are SAYING and I'm telling you its BS.

Squall28 posted...

He said it happened to him while he was a liberal. Pride is not an exclusively conservative trait.

True, but liberals are not exempt from thinking like conservatives when it comes to certain things.

Even someone who doesn't (yet) identify as a conservative can find themselves buying into certain conservative narratives.

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What in the kentucky fried fuck are you talking about?

totalnerdken defended Rittenhouse of all people, just saying.

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He acted stupidly twice over. A real cop wannabe.
American cops lack training and discipline. And, it would seem, decent parenting.

Avirosb posted...

totalnerdken defended Rittenhouse of all people, just saying.

I remember him being more legible.

Avirosb posted...

totalnerdken defended Rittenhouse of all people, just saying.

He also spent hours arguing that Stephen Crowder wasn't abusive when that video surfaced of Crowder being abusive to his wife.

Dude regularly argues for the worst people.

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Ties in with conservatism, in particular the US brand of conservatism.
Most conservative parties in other parts of the globe know the importance of social welfare programs.

Toonstrack posted...

So all conservatives are Republicans including the ones that vote against Republicans?

Yes, actually. Voting against Trump for an election cycle because of how historically awful he is doesn't mean you're suddenly a Democrat.

Toonstrack posted...

So what DOES the dem platform support then.

Well-regulated capitalism, investment into public infrastructure, minimum wage increases, government welfare programs

You know, all things that conservative ideology is fundamentally opposed to.

Toonstrack posted...

tries to paint an entire cultural entity with one big red brush is not derailing anything its actually keeping it on the correct track.

If that "cultural entity" is literally defined by what they believe in and their approach to dealing with certain situations, it is perfectly acceptable to generalize them based on those beliefs.

You're basically trying to argue that not all dogs are canines because sometimes they're cats. That's what happens when you care more about how words are being used rather than what they actually mean.

Murphiroth posted...

He also spent hours arguing that Stephen Crowder wasn't abusive when that video surfaced of Crowder being abusive to his wife.

Dude regularly argues for the worst people.

hoky shit lmao

Just poppin in to say that Destiny is based, that is all

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Defending lil' Kyle should say enough.

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LMAO yes it was.

Toonstrack posted...

I didnt accuse anyone of being white. Read my words carefully.

Direct quote from earlier in the topic:

The whole spectrum is only ever even discussed from a white lens and defined from that same lens even tho it shouldn't be. Thata why white liberals often have terrible takes on conservatives displaying any viewpoint that isnt ideal white liberal core.

On this website it's even more skewed. MLK himself would be called a conservative on this site bc he was an evangelical.

If you're going to play dumb and pretend you weren't implying almost everyone on this site who disagreed with you on this was white, it's even more evidence you're arguing in bad faith. The rest of your post was already responded to by other people.