Current Events > Even if it's wrong the way we shut down "anti-vax" rhetoric is scary

(+) Yeah! (+)

How many times in human history have we thought something is fine, only to later realize its harmful, causes cancer, etc? How many times have big companies harmed us ?

I have the vaccine, and the booster, though I was admittedly a little hesitant because of it being new technology. But being concerned is a fairly natural reaction to injecting something new into your body.

I see a lot online now of people talking about "anti-vax BS" and deleting messages related to it, or spewing insult after insult at the people saying it and shutting them down instantly, calling them psychos, losers, etc, cursing out anti-vaxxers, you know the deal. On reddit these comments will be downvoted to the bottom, so most won't see it, if the mods don't delete it. Today a wrestler passed away of a heart issue after having covid a few months ago. The mods said no anti-vax BS will be tolerated, and delete any post that mentions young people dying recently of heart problems which some suspect is the vaccine. Posts cursing out anti-vaxxers, and talking about how this is long COVID can stay up, the people who talk about how losers are going to try to make this about the vaccine. All while saying this is not a political thread.

I get it, they believe that those saying its COVID are basing on science, while those saying the vaccine is concerning are a conspiracy nut. But how do we know? ARE more young people dying of heart problems in recent years? Or is that just made up? If they are, shouldn't we be investigating all possible causes to find why and sharing all relevant articles?

What they don't realize is that those anti-vaxxers think they are raising awareness of a health problem they find concerning, exactly the same as somebody trying to raise awareness about avoiding covid. Even if they're wrong, they think avoiding the vaccine is helpful.

Is that dangerous? Maybe, because we need vaccines to prevent the illness.

But imagine if any time somebody tried to publish an article that lead paint might be dangerous - it was deleted, and said get out of here with this anti-lead BS and everybody talked about what crazy lunatics they were and ran them off?

Like I have no idea if the vaccine is safe or isn't, but we need to allow people to try to raise concerns. It's better to respond with actual studies that show that it is safe, that the heart issues we see is not related to the vaccine because they are not higher in vaccinated people, etc. Actual data and facts, not just shutting them down. Not having the dialogue also leads to people google searching trying to find what people are saying, and ending up in an echo chamber where they can see the views unchallenged. So its only worse in the end anyway.

But really we should never shut down possible concerns without listening, or when we actually get a serious situation where the people are right, we'll cause a lot of harm. I want people to be able to share studies etc even if they don't say what I want them to. Because one day they will be right, and we need to investigate these things and share concerning data even if it doesn't match our political ideals

Didn't read lol

Oooh oooh

Shut the fuck up.

Oh

you typed all that out and i didnt read it lol

No, harmful rhetoric that destroys the public's response to a public health crisis should be quashed.

tl;dr

You can look at the things that are influencing anti-vax people and their other beliefs to convince yourself that it's not actually a matter of raising awareness or making extra sure it's safe or whatever.

If you guys had read it you would know there was a recipe for the best chili ever in the middle

Why we talking bout this, its the past. Covid is gone.

MICHALECOLE posted...

If you guys had read it you would know there was a recipe for the best chili ever in the middle

I read it. There was no recipe. Even if there was I doubt I would prefer it over my chili. I have tweaked mine to have it just right for my particular tastes over the last 29 years since I left home.

Anteaterking posted...

You can look at the things that are influencing anti-vax people and their other beliefs to convince yourself that it's not actually a matter of raising awareness or making extra sure it's safe or whatever.

Should we? Or should we have studies that answer those questions with facts instead of feeling?

And of course nobody has to read this you can just ignore the thread lol no need to comment that you didn't read it, but again, its just an example of how vitriolic people are to anybody questioning. Questioning and skepticism is good, healthy even. It gives us the chance to answer those questions with studies, data, statistics, proof.

COVxy posted...

No, harmful rhetoric that destroys the public's response to a public health crisis should be quashed.

This may be the case, but what if the vaccines WERE harmful? That is a valid thing to worry about and if it was true, wouldn't we want to know that?

TC would have argued for letting Typhoid Mary infect as many people as possible. Gaslighting topic.

Jx1010 posted...

Why we talking bout this, its the past. Covid is gone.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/80545823

And see, this thread is a good example of the way people react, and it's those social dynamics and mob mentality that I find scary and concerning. One day there's going to be people trying to say something thats pretty vital, and the mob is going to scream them down until its too late. We need to have an environment of free speech and a freedom to question and raise issues.

didnt read ur post, no it's not

stop flooding the internet with fucking shit ai is bad enough without humans helping it

the internet is like a public library. just cause some wacko scrawled a theory on cardboard doesnt mean the library has to shelve it.

no one is talking about arresting anyone or stopping anyone from doing anything.

the algorithms are already always fucking you over with fake feeds, why not make the feed scientifically accurate in the process.

id fucking bury every flat earth anti vax space laser racist bullshit post in the recycle bin

literally why the fuck not

Jx1010 posted...

Why we talking bout this, its the past. Covid is gone.

No it isnt, its just a new fun normal virus that is here to stay because people couldnt unify to block it before it got bigger.

this isnt firstnameabunch of numbers.

hmmm

The science of it isn't a mystery, so there's really nothing to disbelieve.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

What they don't realize is that those anti-vaxxers think they are raising awareness of a health problem they find concerning

ok that's funny

We would want to know that. Which is why these things go through procedures known as "clinical trials". Tend to be much more effective than listening to Joe Rogan.

MICHALECOLE posted...

If you guys had read it you would know there was a recipe for the best chili ever in the middle

Just buy 8 different cans of chili and throw them in a crock pot, bam.

DigitalCamera posted...

Just buy 8 different cans of chili and throw them in a crock pot, bam.

I wonder if that would actually be good

HHH_is_the_game posted...

And see, this thread is a good example of the way people react, and it's those social dynamics and mob mentality that I find scary and concerning. One day there's going to be people trying to say something thats pretty vital, and the mob is going to scream them down until its too late. We need to have an environment of free speech and a freedom to question and raise issues.

People can go and say nazi stuff and spread factually fake things, and people will be free to respond as if they said stupid things.

But they are also free to cry about how they were mistreated for just asking questions.

guarantied to be mid without doctoring

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/0/0/AAfdIfAAExDc.jpg

COVxy posted...

We would want to know that. Which is why these things go through procedures known as "clinical trials". Tend to be much more effective than listening to Joe Rogan.

Yes, but this is a pretty new technology which is why people are concerned, and it would be impossible to know the long-term effects. If they DID study the long-term effects on a wide scale of people with no ill effects that's the stuff that should be pointed out.

And actually I didn't realize there was a thread about Wyatt here already so thanks for linking it.
In the thread we have people saying

And now here come the right-wingers blaming the vaccine.

While claiming that they're annoyed people will politicize this - as if they aren't also politicizing it just as much. And saying

Anyone who says its from the vax is a disgusting animal.

Like that's insanely extreme. I have no idea if its from the vaccine or not but if it ever turned out the vaccines did cause heart problems my god certain people would have egg on their face....

I think we need to accept that these are valid questions and encourage them to study it if they think that. If we're lucky the studies show nothing, but in the off chance they do show something we should want to know it.

Jx1010 posted...

Why we talking bout this, its the past. Covid is gone.

Imagine actually believing this bullshit. This is why we're stuck with it.

I had TC tagged as Enlightened Centrist

_____Cait posted...

People can go and say nazi stuff and spread factually fake things, and people will be free to respond as if they said stupid things.

But they are also free to cry about how they were mistreated for just asking questions.

Yeah but that is an extremely different situation, spreading hate, and questioning new medicine? Like how can you compare those two things.

And the effects of shutting this down is you search on twitter and see them linking to studies about how they HAVE linked it with heart effects and its definitely scary to see - maybe those studies are BS , but that's all the more reason to talk about it openly so that can be pointed out

Tyranthraxus posted...

I had TC tagged as Enlightened Centrist

i take that as a compliment tbh

Pickup truck Joe's opinion is not as valid than the biologist whose spent their career studying vaccines

HHH_is_the_game posted...

i take that as a compliment tbh

Then you don't know what it means

It is entirely science's job to make that decision. Not some ugly fuckwit watching tik tok videos. I can make a bunch of random guesses too and some of them will be correct due to chance too.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

i take that as a compliment tbh

It's not meant to be an insult or a compliment. It's simply a description.

-_rustykranz_- posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/0/0/AAfdIfAAExDc.jpg

Perfect post since TC's all "won't somebody think of the plague rats? we need more people dying of covid and listening to quacks plz"

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Yeah but that is an extremely different situation, spreading hate, and questioning new medicine? Like how can you compare those two things.

"New medicine is bad and scary and I don't understand it. Instead I'm going to take horse dewormer and die from the disease anyways."

https://youtu.be/TXPC2HXjrYU?si=7Qpm7242q3Ju_LQ2

Carljank posted...

It is entirely science's job to make that decision. Not some ugly fuckwit watching tik tok videos. I can make a bunch of random guesses too and some of them will be correct due to chance too.

Exactly. I 100% agree. It is science's job. Not the people watching tik tok, or the subreddit mods, or the mob.

A_Good_Boy posted...

"New medicine is bad and scary and I don't understand it. Instead I'm going to take horse dewormer and die from the disease anyways."

I think it is a little ignorant to just assume nothing could ever go wrong....

HHH_is_the_game posted...

I think it is a little ignorant to just assume nothing could ever go wrong....

"New medicine may probably be wrong, so I'll definitely be wrong on purpose and inject bleach, swallow aquarium cleaner, and take horse dewormer."

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I think the difference here is the fact that you may or may not catch covid, but you ARE injecting your body with the vaccine, so if the vaccines may be harmful there's a 100% chance you are putting it inside you, whereas covid you can wear masks and try to avoid, stay inside, social distance, etc. I never did catch covid the entire time, maybe its because I was vaccinated and boostered, maybe because I kept wearing a mask etc.

So if I was to hypothetically die of the vaccine it would feel pretty awful because what if I never would have caught covid ?

And while its true the vaccines went through a testing process isnt it also true that mRNA vaccines are pretty new? Do we know for sure what it does over years on a large scale?

Even tests can fail sometimes, right? Has there never been substances we thought were safe and only learned later that they weren't?

A_Good_Boy posted...

"New medicine may probably be wrong, so I'll definitely be wrong on purpose and inject bleach, swallow aquarium cleaner, and take horse dewormer."

Er....I dunno where you got those last things from, it has nothing to do with this thread.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Yes, but this is a pretty new technology

It's not really. It's pretty much the same as old vaccines, in terms of the way it actually works to prevent infection. The only reason people were worried to begin with is bad actors deliberately fear mongering for political gain.

What we have is the whole scientific community telling the public "this is theoretically very very safe, and it's gone through rigorous testing and has been shown to be practically very very safe". Scientists who have no real incentive to lie, who above all else were demonstrating how safe it was by getting it themselves.

And then you have a bunch of right-wing politicians who need votes from conservative constituents, and a bunch of grifters who make money off of conservative constituents raising alarm bells about safety and freedom, yelling about tyranny. And as noted, they have very good reasons to lie.

And now you want to prop that side up as just as valid because "what if?!?!", as if that's not just a terrible rhetorical device.

We are and have been studying the long-term impacts of COVID vaccine. What makes you think we haven't been? Some wasteoid on Twitter who hasn't read a study in their life said we weren't?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37146127/

https://eurjmedres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40001-023-00992-0

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8078878/

https://classic.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04941144

I don't think you realize what you're talking about when it comes to academia. Getting post-vaccinations studies done on the new cutting edge vaccine for the scary new pandemic is so fucking easy. Medical and Biotech universities are chomping at the bit to publish and fund this type of shit.

If there's one thing I hate about stupid people, it's how they seem to be under the impression that everyone is just as stupid and short-sighted as them. No. The world is in much better care by scientists then you could even rationalize if I spent the next 24 hours explaining it to you. Did you think there were elite scientists just sitting on their hands going, "Boy, I sure wish we had something to study, but ever since this perfect vaccine was made there's no point in studying the COVID vaccine anymore!"