Poll of the Day > Between george w. and trump who do you believe was the better

(+) Yeah! (+)

public speaker? How about which was more intelligent? 2 presidents not known for being great in those areas by many

Isn't public speaking like the one thing Trump had going for him?

Millea posted...

Isn't public speaking like the one thing Trump had going for him?

Have heard others say he wasn't that great in this area and just his fans really loved his speeches

Millea posted...

Isn't public speaking like the one thing Trump had going for him?

He's got a weird charisma, but that isn't the same as being a good public speaker. Bush was better at conveying information or making a point, Trump is basically only really good at whipping up a crowd that already agrees with him.

I did everything right ane they indicted meeeee

George Bush started a war based on a lie so it's pretty hard to top that

Both are disgusting, but I appreciate that Bush Jr. would own his flubs.

you can't say trump didn't try to top that

ConfusedTorchic posted...

you can't say trump didn't try to top that

He definitely tried his absolute hardest.

Yellow posted...

George Bush started a war based on a lie so it's pretty hard to top that

Considering the current state of our country you could make a pretty solid argument that Trump has done the same.

George W. Bush on both counts, and by a lot.

Bush was a pretty good public speaker, as long as he stayed on script. It was when he was speaking off the cuff or going off script that he had his famous verbal gaffes.

And even then, it usually was just inelegant wording and it wasn't hard to figure out what he actually meant. When he said something dumb like, "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family," or, "Rarely is the question asked, 'Is our children learning?'", you clearly knew what he was trying to say.

Now I'm not going to say Bush was the brightest dude to ever be president, but Trump was almost certainly the dumbest, and it showed. His speaking was not only tortured stream-of-consciousness verbal blather, it frequently was just... really, really dumb. It wasn't even that he meant to say something understandable but flubbed it - he was trying to say something stupid and said it stupidly.

I mean, how do you defend something like: "Look, having nuclear my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart you know, if youre a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say Im one of the smartest people anywhere in the world its true! but when youre a conservative Republican they try oh, do they do a number thats why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because were a little disadvantaged but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me it would have been so easy, and its not as important as these lives are nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of whats going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? but when you look at whats going on with the four prisoners now it used to be three, now its four but when it was three and even now, I would have said its all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they dont, they havent figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, its gonna take them about another 150 years but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible." (Donald Trump, 2016)

Or: "My father is German, right? Was German, and born in a very wonderful place in Germany, so I have a great feeling for Germany." (Donald Trump, whose father, Fred Trump, was born in the US and lived there his entire life, 2019).

Or: "Well look, Brian, you have forests all over the world. You dont have fires like you do in California, you know. In Europe, they have forest cities. You look at you look at countries Austria. You look at so many countries, they live in the forest. Theyre considered forest cities so many of them. And they dont have fires like this and they have more explosive trees. They have trees that will catch easier. But they maintain their fire. They have an expression, they thin the fuel. The fuel is whats on the ground the leaves." (Donald Trump, 2020)

Or: "If you have a windmill anywhere near your house, congratulations, your house just went down 75 per cent in value. And they say the noise causes cancer. You tell me that one, OK?" (Donald Trump, 2019)

About the only thing that Trump did better than Bush on the public speaking front is he was better at energizing crowds. That's about it.

Holy shit you typed all that out?

JebronLames posted...

Holy shit you typed all that out?

The quotes were copy-pasted.

But even if they weren't... it's not really that long? Certainly far from the longest thing I've ever written on this site.

rjsilverthorn posted...

Considering the current state of our country you could make a pretty solid argument that Trump has done the same.

In terms of outright disdain and pitifulness, Trump wins.

In terms of overall damage done, Bush.

Trump actually did very little policy-wise. You might say him making the supreme court conservative bumps him up a notch. But Bush caused many innocent people to die and caused real world pain that we rarely hold in perspective. He doesn't even show his face on TV anymore because you can tell he hates himself, he's come to fully accept what he did was wrong.

https://youtu.be/RM5YF2KvWeQ

Trump may not have done much policy-wise, but he and McConnell packed the Supreme Court with fringe-right and flat-out unqualified candidates, who have made decisions that have stymied or even reversed progress made in the past several decades. Those are life-long appointments. We haven't seen the extent of the damage this current incarnation of the SC will do, and we won't know how bad things can get for years. Even decades. Innocent people are suffering and yes, even dying, because of it.

The impact of the War on Terror has been and continues to be tremendously grim for the US. But we have only seen the tip of the iceberg with regards to the damage that can be wrought by the Trump/McConnell SC.

bush was a fuck up, but he gave a crap about the country and at least seemed like deep down he was a person that wanted to be good. trump is fucking evil and owns it. bush was a better president, but he stumbled through his words every other sentence. trump flubs the same way sometimes, but not as often, and was able to insight people at a fanatical level.

i legit miss bushisms though. they were derpy and funny, almost cute thinking back on them. trumpisms are just angry and violent. even the funny ones smell of evil.

Trump was so terrible that people are putting on nostalgia goggles for george bush. But bush was terrible and a war criminal and that's how he should be remembered. He was a piece of garbage. People are fooled into believing he was nice because of his gaffes and how incredibly dumb he often came across

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/9/1/AAQwHjAAEvqP.jpg

Yellow posted...

George Bush started a war based on a lie so it's pretty hard to top that

He did though. He made covid worse by pushing conspiracy theories, sowing distrust in experts, and pillaged supplies from states. This led to millions dead both from covid and from over crowded hospitals. That's more Americans dead than from the war.

He also continued the war.

Technically Trump ended the war but the Doha agreement was incredibly flawed and the Biden administration honestly should've delayed if not canceled the whole thing, but that would've been a fool's errand given how unpopular the war was, and how easy it is for Biden to point the finger at Trump for the absolute shit show that occurred in Afghanistan post withdrawal

Yellow posted...

Trump actually did very little policy-wise. You might say him making the supreme court conservative bumps him up a notch. But Bush caused many innocent people to die and caused real world pain that we rarely hold in perspective.

Did you forget about Trump fucking up the response to COVID so badly that the US was one of the worst-affected countries in the entire world? The US actually would have been in better shape if Trump had spent the entirety of COVID shutting himself up in Mara Lago and drinking himself into a stupor, because then at least he wouldn't be actively sabotaging the people trying to make things better.

About 300,000 civilians died in the Iraq war; Trump being a moron probably caused at least that many excess deaths due to COVID.

And that's *just* COVID. How many families got ripped apart because of his inhumane practices at the border (some of which are still separated to this day)? How much misery is being caused by his pet court destroying abortion rights? And, of course, there's the rather notable asterisk that, for the first time in US history, under his watch there was not a peaceful transition of power from one administration to the next. The insurrection he fermented has badly shaken the foundations of American democracy and resulted in confederate and nazi flags flying in the capitol building for the first time ever.

Bush certainly caused his fair share of death and destruction, but you could tell he actually gave a shit about the country and was trying, in his own supremely challenged way, to do good. He did things like talk about how the US wasn't at war with Islam and how Muslim Americans were friends and countrymen, not people to be discriminated against. Could you ever picture Trump saying something like that? Fuck no, he'd launch into the same "both sides" bullshit he pulled out after a tiki torch neo-nazi fucking murdered someone in Charlottesville.

Bush was a moron, but Trump was actually evil. I didn't think we'd see a president more harmful to the US and the world than Bush in my lifetime, but less than 10 years later the Republicans managed to dig one up (and it's darkly impressive that he managed to outdo Bush in terms of shittiness despite only being in office for half as long).

Yellow posted...

But Bush caused many innocent people to die and caused real world pain that we rarely hold in perspective.

I'd say Trump has him beat in that regard too

Compared to Trump George W. is a master wordsmith. Trump sounds more like an orangutan with a learning disability.

Metalsonic66 posted...

I'd say Trump has him beat in that regard too

Yeah not to diminish the immense loss of life in Iraq, but we have no idea how many Covid deaths could've been prevented had Trump not completely bungled his handling of the pandemic.

Perhaps his greatest offense here is his repeated endorsement of conspiracies and quack medicine, helping to fuel anti-vax/anti-mask sentiment and fostering a growing distrust of science, medicine, and government. The effects here will last decades... His followers are completely rapt with his ideology. Even when Trump is gone, there are thousands, if not millions, of his core supporters who will carry these sentiments to the grave, and raise their kids with those same "values". Who knows how effective population health policies can be going forward when entire swaths of people fervently deny and push back against anything they deem as government overreach, even when it benefits them?

And that's just his handling of the pandemic. That's not to mention, as has already been pointed out in this topic, his border policies, his SC appointments and their impact on abortion and other matters, his rollbacks on EPA protections (coupled with his repeated climate change denial), his tax policies helping to widen the wealth gap and push people further into poverty, etc etc etc

Bush did horrible things, but it's beyond naive to think Trump has not at least matched, if not surpassed, Bush in terms of human suffering.

And as was pointed out, Bush genuinely cares for the country, and the people in it. I'm not saying he did everything right or was always doing things to benefit the nation and not his own agenda, but he generally had good motives.

Trump only cares for himself. I honestly don't think Trump even cares about his own children. Like, outside of Ivanka who he has some weird incestual feelings for, I don't think he would allow himself to face any consequences if he couldn't sacrifice someone else in his place. The man is a bonafide narcissistic sociopath who has only ever been looking out for his own interests.

If you go back and check Dubya had all of the key players that were connected to his daddy's administration, the same people who started the Gulf War and then Dubya comes in and whammo 911 happens then the Iraqi war etc so in essence Reagan and Bush Sr were responsible for the creation of the so called Muslim terrorists.

MeatiestMeatus posted...

Like, outside of Ivanka who he has some weird incestual feelings for

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/8/8/AAQwHjAAEvwc.jpg

GranTurismo posted...

public speaker? How about which was more intelligent? 2 presidents not known for being great in those areas by many

George W. blows Trump out of the water in both categories and it isn't even close. I have no idea how Trump managed to get so many people to vote for him but I guess when your target audience is the lower IQ half of the country it works in your favor when you sound like a braindead moron.

captpackrat posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/8/8/AAQwHjAAEvwc.jpg

Ivanka posing for Playboy would be really disappointing not really. But it would depend on what was inside the magazine I dont think Ivanka would [do a nude shoot] inside the magazine. Although she does have a very nice figure. Ive said that if Ivanka werent my daughter, perhaps Id be dating her.

Yeah, shes really something, and what a beauty, that one. If I werent happily married and, ya know, her father

"Is it wrong to be more sexually attracted to your own daughter than your wife?"

According to The New Republic, Aides said he talked about Ivanka Trumps breasts, her backside and what it might be like to have sex with her, remarks that once led [former Chief of Staff] John Kelly to remind the president that Ivanka was his daughter, Taylor, who served as a Department of Homeland Security chief of staff under Trump, wrote in his book.

"Dont you think my daughters hot? Shes hot, right?"

"You know who's one of the great beauties of the world, according to everybody? And I helped create her? Ivanka. My daughter, Ivanka. She's six feet tall. She's got the best body."

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/8/6/AAdkcxAADjVy.jpg

the saddest and most disturbing thing is that ivanka's face looks almost exactly like trump's

GranTurismo posted...

the saddest and most disturbing thing is that ivanka's face looks almost exactly like trump's

i mean it completely explains why he wants to fuck her so badly.

GranTurismo posted...

public speaker? How about which was more intelligent? 2 presidents not known for being great in those areas by many

Bush was over all better but despite seeming worse I have to give public speaking to Trump. He had a cult following so whatever he was doing worked.

As far as intelligence can't say other than Trump I'm sure was smarter when it came to money he knew how to make deals and he knew how to manipulate the system if things didn't go his way.

Trump's cult following has nothing to do with his ability to work a crowd. Those people were all already primed and ready for their orange savior to come along.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

As far as intelligence can't say other than Trump I'm sure was smarter when it came to money he knew how to make deals and he knew how to manipulate the system if things didn't go his way.

Must be why so many of his businesses fail, and why even his "successful" businesses incur heavy financial losses regularly:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-most-failed-businesses-based-on-losses-in-tax-records-2020-9

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-businesses-failures-successes-2016-10

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-05-18/trump-business-partners-outline-his-failed-deals

The dude was born into wealth and affluence. He's not some wise business guru. He simply has enough money that he can eat shit on a business venture and it doesn't phase him.

I'm not saying he's incapable of making of building a good business, but given his track record one has to wonder how much of it is luck, or how hard the people under him have to work to get them to be successful. I seriously doubt his abilities as a businessman. Just like Musk, another rich "genius", he simply has too much money to fail.

MeatiestMeatus posted...

Must be why so many of his businesses fail, and why even his "successful" businesses incur heavy financial losses regularly:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-most-failed-businesses-based-on-losses-in-tax-records-2020-9

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-businesses-failures-successes-2016-10

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-05-18/trump-business-partners-outline-his-failed-deals

The dude was born into wealth and affluence. He's not some wise business guru. He simply has enough money that he can eat shit on a business venture and it doesn't phase him.

I'm not saying he's incapable of making of building a good business, but given his track record one has to wonder how much of it is luck, or how hard the people under him have to work to get them to be successful. I seriously doubt his abilities as a businessman. Just like Musk, another rich "genius", he simply has too much money to fail.

.did I mention. Where he gets around the system whe things don't go he is way. I feel like I mentioned that.

Iirc trump always says that his father only gave him a million dollars and he turned it into a billion, when he really gave him hundreds of millions

Sufferedphoneix posted...

.did I mention. Where he gets around the system whe things don't go he is way. I feel like I mentioned that.

Almost like being very wealthy can afford you a legion of lawyers to help you escape culpability... doesn't make him smart about business or business deals. Did I mention that his money has helped him more than his brains? I feel like I mentioned that.

So most of you guys don't believe that Elon musk is as intelligent as he seems to think he is? Do you think he's more intelligent than trump?

MeatiestMeatus posted...

Almost like being very wealthy can afford you a legion of lawyers to help you escape culpability... doesn't make him smart about business or business deals. Did I mention that his money has helped him more than his brains? I feel like I mentioned that.

Fair point.

GranTurismo posted...

Iirc trump always says that his father only gave him a million dollars and he turned it into a billion, when he really gave him hundreds of millions

Donald Trump Would Be Richer If Hed Have Invested in Index Funds

https://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/

UT1999 posted...

So most of you guys don't believe that Elon musk is as intelligent as he seems to think he is? Do you think he's more intelligent than trump?

Here's the thing. While I do enjoy calling Trump and Musk absolute morons for things they do and say, I don't truly believe that either one of them are "stupid"

Like anyone else, they each have their strengths and deficiencies in terms of how they utilize their intelligence.

Trump is incredibly charismatic. He has a sense of humor, he can be affable. He can schmooze with the best of them. That is a certain type of intelligence, and I daresay he's brilliant in that regard. But I think a good deal of his business dealings are generated from his ego and thinking "Hey, I can make money doing this" while blindly shooting cash from the hip while his deep pockets cushion his poor decision-making.

Musk I think is a bit savvier in where he puts his money. I think he's smart enough to know what to buy into, and his pet projects even seem to be decent ventures. But he didn't invent PayPal. He didn't build Tesla from the ground up. He bought into them. Which he never would've been able to do had he not been born into wealth. Twitter appears to be his first big public stumbling block. And he was forced to purchase Twitter. Had he had his way, he would've backed out, at least at the price he bought it for. And that whole Twitter debacle stems from Musk shooting his mouth off on social media. That's where he's dumb. He lacks self-awareness and humility.

Both of them have benefited greatly from celebrity, as their status helps to elevate them in the eyes of the average media consumer.

If one starts to do a little digging, we can quickly discover that a lot of their "achievements" come from having great wealth, and hitching their cashwagon to various business business ventures, with the successes enabling them to continue being absurdly wealthy and affording them enough "fuck you" money to absorb the occasional failure.

In that sense, I feel Musk is smarter than Trump. A bit savvier than Trump. Not as reckless with his money, though that might boil down to the age gap. Time will tell if Musk can rack up as many failures as Trump has in his time.

To add on to what you're saying, people will also just literally throw money at you for your pet projects when you're born into old money like they are

OhhhJa posted...

To add on to what you're saying, people will also just literally throw money at you for your pet projects when you're born into old money like they are

Didn't musk grow up with a lot less money than trump?

UT1999 posted...

Didn't musk grow up with a lot less money than trump?

Probably, but his dad had enough to give him $30k to start his business. His dad had enough money to own an airplane at some point. Musk most likely started from more modest means than the Trump, but he's pretty fucking far from being a rags-to-riches "self-made man"

elons family runs a successful emerald mine

back when Elon was trying to buff himself up by saying he never got any help to get where he is, his dad actually busted out the receipts and Elon stopped trying to say he had no help lmao

ConfusedTorchic posted...

elons family runs a successful emerald mine

back when Elon was trying to buff himself up by saying he never got any help to get where he is, his dad actually busted out the receipts and Elon stopped trying to say he had no help lmao

Yeah iirc musk really really wants people to believe his family wasn't wealthy. Has tried to refute it multiple times. Don't most billionaires do this? Including trump? Looks really bad, inherited all your wealth

trump, no, he proudly told the world his dad gave him a small loan of 1 million dollars

he also participates in heavy nepotism, so i think it's safe to assume he's fine with that. y'know, where the hired his entire family into roles not a single one of them was qualified for after he became president

ConfusedTorchic posted...

trump, no, he proudly told the world his dad gave him a small loan of 1 million dollars

he also participates in heavy nepotism, so i think it's safe to assume he's fine with that. y'know, where the hired his entire family into roles not a single one of them was qualified for after he became president

yeah iirc trump is adamantly against the estate tax and tried to eliminate it when he was president, unsuccessfully . Safe to say he won't be signing bill gates's giving pledge

UT1999 posted...

Yeah iirc musk really really wants people to believe his family wasn't wealthy. Has tried to refute it multiple times. Don't most billionaires do this? Including trump? Looks really bad, inherited all your wealth

Didn't elon musk's own father publicly refute elon once when he tried to say he wasn't born into wealth?