Current Events > Makoto singlehandledly makes Persona 5 worse. spoilers

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Doe 07/14/23 1:03:50 PM #101:	Royal chapter secures P5 as best in the series --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:974834995] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Royal chapter secures P5 as best in the series</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/14/23 1:05:23 PM #102:	Doe posted... Royal chapter secures P5 as best in the series i actually found that rather weak to be honest --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974835018] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite><quote>Royal chapter secures P5 as best in the series</quote>i actually found that rather weak to be honest </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SugarFlakes 07/14/23 1:06:43 PM #103:	BurmesePenguin posted... Present evidence of what youre saying. You want me to present evidence over an opinion? --- Boop <cite>SugarFlakes posted [p:974835039] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>BurmesePenguin posted... </cite><quote>Present evidence of what youre saying.</quote>You want me to present evidence over an opinion?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 07/14/23 1:06:57 PM #104:	The royal scenario is bad and feels as needlessly tacked on as it literally is. --- Sigful User Logic <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:974835043] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>The royal scenario is bad and feels as needlessly tacked on as it literally is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 07/14/23 1:07:03 PM #105:	AceMos posted... i actually found that rather weak to be honest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf1gHqritRQ --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:974835046] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>i actually found that rather weak to be honest</quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf1gHqritRQ</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Charged151 07/14/23 1:07:44 PM #106:	Doe posted... Royal chapter secures P5 as best in the series I just wish we got Persona 5 Royal it in place of P5 in the first place. Was too burnt out to finish Royal after beating P5 twice about 2 years prior. Also, because P5R was a thing, I might wait a few years after P6 comes out to play the superior version. Superior re-releases on the same console shouldn't be a thing Atlus. --- I'm...the...master...of...ellipses... <cite>Charged151 posted [p:974835061] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite><quote>Royal chapter secures P5 as best in the series</quote>I just wish we got Persona 5 Royal it in place of P5 in the first place. Was too burnt out to finish Royal after beating P5 twice about 2 years prior.Also, because P5R was a thing, I might wait a few years after P6 comes out to play the superior version. Superior re-releases on the same console shouldn't be a thing Atlus.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ArtiRock 07/14/23 1:10:13 PM #107:	Doe posted... Mishima's confidant is one of the worst because it's literally the only time someone is being terribly bullied and harassed and Joker does not give a shit. Literally everyone else: Oh no I'm being exploited and scammed by someone but I'm powerless to stop it! Joker: NOT ON MY LIFE Mishima: My lifelong bullies are still bullying me and I have no friends, even the guys whose online PR I do merely tolerate me. Joker: I don't care, I merely tolerate you Joker will physically stand between any other confidant victim and their abuser but when it happens to Mishima he just sits there and watches. And finally the shadow he does confront is Mishima himself, whose shadow already knows he's done wrong and who has basically just been coping. All the phantom thieves act like Mishima is this huge annoyance but he's unironically not as bad Yusuke, who stalked Ann to ask her to pose nude for him, and who becomes a friend of the group simply because he happened to enter the metaverse and gain a Persona. There's also no 'incorrect' dialogue options for Mishima's confidant options and the majority of them are about scorning or negging Mishima in some way. The developers' hands are really visible as they push you to dislike him. It reminds me of the guy with the 8bit palace in Persona 4 who they intentionally made weird and with iris-less eyes so you forget about the theme of the game and just scorn him. Yeah, I really didn't get why you were supposed to hate Mishima when he was a victim like Ryuji, Ann, and everyone else in the beginning of the game, and Mishima does the best he can without powers-- being honestly more useful than even your party members at moments, and no one really gives him credit. Even if he was kinda meek, he was still an athlete, he at least deserves some respect in some capacity. LazyLounge posted... That's why P4 remains supreme. Nah, there are still stupid things about P4. IE, your party being so braindead stupid that they take an entire year to figure things out. At least the anime made it kinda make sense (the first one, not Golden). And there are some annoying S.Links in P4 too. The Fox is not a good social link. It's just "do sidequest." The Fox doesn't talk, and it doesn't even communicate in ways that are amusing enough to make it worth doing aside from saving you money. --- This is the duty of the Grim Angels. <cite>ArtiRock posted [p:974835119] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite><quote>Mishima's confidant is one of the worst because it's literally the only time someone is being terribly bullied and harassed and Joker does not give a shit.Literally everyone else: Oh no I'm being exploited and scammed by someone but I'm powerless to stop it!Joker: NOT ON MY LIFEMishima: My lifelong bullies are still bullying me and I have no friends, even the guys whose online PR I do merely tolerate me.Joker: I don't care, I merely tolerate youJoker will physically stand between any other confidant victim and their abuser but when it happens to Mishima he just sits there and watches. And finally the shadow he does confront is Mishima himself, whose shadow already knows he's done wrong and who has basically just been coping.All the phantom thieves act like Mishima is this huge annoyance but he's unironically not as bad Yusuke, who stalked Ann to ask her to pose nude for him, and who becomes a friend of the group simply because he happened to enter the metaverse and gain a Persona.There's also no 'incorrect' dialogue options for Mishima's confidant options and the majority of them are about scorning or negging Mishima in some way. The developers' hands are really visible as they push you to dislike him. It reminds me of the guy with the 8bit palace in Persona 4 who they intentionally made weird and with iris-less eyes so you forget about the theme of the game and just scorn him.</quote>Yeah, I really didn't get why you were supposed to hate Mishima when he was a victim like Ryuji, Ann, and everyone else in the beginning of the game, and Mishima does the best he can without powers-- being honestly more useful than even your party members at moments, and no one really gives him credit. Even if he was kinda meek, he was still an athlete, he at least deserves some respect in some capacity.LazyLounge posted... </cite><quote>That's why P4 remains supreme.</quote>Nah, there are still stupid things about P4. IE, your party being so braindead stupid that they take an entire year to figure things out. At least the anime made it kinda make sense (the first one, not Golden). And there are some annoying S.Links in P4 too. The Fox is not a good social link. It's just "do sidequest." The Fox doesn't talk, and it doesn't even communicate in ways that are amusing enough to make it worth doing aside from saving you money. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ArtiRock 07/14/23 1:12:38 PM #108:	AceMos posted... i actually found that rather weak to be honest Thematically, it's good, but the issue is that it ends up causing problems with the narrative, as the "3rd semester" is too long and nothing really happens in it. The other issue is that they really didn't include ~~\|\|Sumire\|\| in the plot terribly well. She just feels like she's there until she's really important out of nowhere.~~ I honestly like the path to fighting the final boss there better, but it IS a step down from the actual final boss despite there being debatably more at stake. --- This is the duty of the Grim Angels. <cite>ArtiRock posted [p:974835159] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>i actually found that rather weak to be honest</quote>Thematically, it's good, but the issue is that it ends up causing problems with the narrative, as the "3rd semester" is too long and nothing really happens in it. The other issue is that they really didn't include \|\|Sumire\|\| in the plot terribly well. She just feels like she's there until she's really important out of nowhere. I honestly like the path to fighting the final boss there better, but it IS a step down from the actual final boss despite there being debatably more at stake. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 07/14/23 1:13:01 PM #109:	BurmesePenguin posted... The royal scenario is bad and feels as needlessly tacked on as it literally is. The original final villains of P5 are two of the least interesting in the series (cartoon villain who's so evil, the first time you see him is him assaulting a woman; and another generic false god). Royal antagonist is the best in the series. The thieves saving a good person from himself >> beating up yet another 2d cartoonish evildoer. --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:974835170] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>BurmesePenguin posted... </cite><quote>The royal scenario is bad and feels as needlessly tacked on as it literally is.</quote>The original final villains of P5 are two of the least interesting in the series (cartoon villain who's so evil, the first time you see him is him assaulting a woman; and another generic false god). Royal antagonist is the best in the series. The thieves saving a good person from himself >> beating up yet another 2d cartoonish evildoer.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/14/23 1:16:33 PM #110:	Doe posted... Royal antagonist is the best in the series. no no he is not at all persona 3s big bad is far better royals villain is a moron who does not understand how emotions work --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974835233] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite><quote>Royal antagonist is the best in the series.</quote>no no he is not at all persona 3s big bad is far better royals villain is a moron who does not understand how emotions work </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 07/14/23 1:16:53 PM #111:	Youre not wrong but even though I really like the antagonist of Royal it still very much feel like a meandering bonus act to a play that already had its ending. The brainwash feature also makes it feel uncomfortable to do confidant activities, or really any interaction through the whole thing that isnt literally about the plot. @#109 --- Sigful User Logic <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:974835240] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Youre not wrong but even though I really like the antagonist of Royal it still very much feel like a meandering bonus act to a play that already had its ending. The brainwash feature also makes it feel uncomfortable to do confidant activities, or really any interaction through the whole thing that isnt literally about the plot.@#109</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ArtiRock 07/14/23 1:19:17 PM #112:	Doe posted... The original final villains of P5 are two of the least interesting in the series (cartoon villain who's so evil, the first time you see him is him assaulting a woman; and another generic false god). Royal antagonist is the best in the series. The thieves saving a good person from himself >> beating up yet another 2d cartoonish evildoer. I agree that the original villains are really terrible. Mostly because The first one is a villain that's just a power hungry dick, and we don't learn much about him. Under normal circumstances, that could be fine if he was an active participant in the story, but he really isn't. He's just straight up a non-entity and only does passive things throughout the story until the very end. ~~The actual final boss of P5 (not royal) results in you fighting for something that's more of an ideal, and you aren't fighting anyone in particular.~~ Maruki is better as a theme, but the pacing is royally (pun intended) screwed over by the escalation of stakes and then having a drab final couple of months to give you time to build Sumire support, get 3rd tier persona, Maruki actually has a backstory, and you can see that he's trying to help despite his delusions. He feels far better thematically than Shido, as Maruki acts as almost a foil to Joker. --- This is the duty of the Grim Angels. <cite>ArtiRock posted [p:974835289] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite><quote>The original final villains of P5 are two of the least interesting in the series (cartoon villain who's so evil, the first time you see him is him assaulting a woman; and another generic false god). Royal antagonist is the best in the series. The thieves saving a good person from himself >> beating up yet another 2d cartoonish evildoer.</quote>I agree that the original villains are really terrible. Mostly because The first one is a villain that's just a power hungry dick, and we don't learn much about him. Under normal circumstances, that could be fine if he was an active participant in the story, but he really isn't. He's just straight up a non-entity and only does passive things throughout the story until the very end. The actual final boss of P5 (not royal) results in you fighting for something that's more of an ideal, and you aren't fighting anyone in particular. Maruki is better as a theme, but the pacing is royally (pun intended) screwed over by the escalation of stakes and then having a drab final couple of months to give you time to build Sumire support, get 3rd tier persona, Maruki actually has a backstory, and you can see that he's trying to help despite his delusions. He feels far better thematically than Shido, as Maruki acts as almost a foil to Joker. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 07/14/23 1:25:20 PM #113:	AceMos posted... persona 3s big bad is far better Persona 3 big bad is... the end. Which is cool, but does not have much character in itself, rather it is the very avatar of adversity so as to further spotlight the struggle of the protagonists. BurmesePenguin posted... it still very much feel like a meandering bonus act to a play that already had its ending. I found the premise and presentation of it engaging enough to overcome the pacing issue it necessarily introduces. On top of that, IMO it provides new and better final character development for the cast. I love how the new Persona awakenings are combination of their original and new to show how they must accept everything that's happened to them yet move forward. I love how the new ending is constructed to force them to follow through on the consequences of rejecting ~~Maruki~~ by having the cast all need to move away from Shibuya and move on. I love how Akechi is used. I just find it a whole step more mature and thoughtful than the original game, while also being an extension and elevation of the themes and ideas the original explored. For me that outweighs how the game ends up having like 3 final boss dungeons. --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:974835394] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>persona 3s big bad is far better</quote>Persona 3 big bad is... the end. Which is cool, but does not have much character in itself, rather it is the very avatar of adversity so as to further spotlight the struggle of the protagonists.BurmesePenguin posted... </cite><quote>it still very much feel like a meandering bonus act to a play that already had its ending.</quote>I found the premise and presentation of it engaging enough to overcome the pacing issue it necessarily introduces. On top of that, IMO it provides new and better final character development for the cast. I love how the new Persona awakenings are combination of their original and new to show how they must accept everything that's happened to them yet move forward. I love how the new ending is constructed to force them to follow through on the consequences of rejecting Maruki by having the cast all need to move away from Shibuya and move on. I love how Akechi is used.I just find it a whole step more mature and thoughtful than the original game, while also being an extension and elevation of the themes and ideas the original explored. For me that outweighs how the game ends up having like 3 final boss dungeons.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 07/14/23 1:27:22 PM #114:	ArtiRock posted... ~~Maruki acts as almost a foil to Joker.~~ Yep thanks for reminding me even more what a masterpiece this expansion was ~~https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/0/6/AAcZIZAAEqHy.jpg~~ --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:974835440] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>ArtiRock posted... </cite><quote>Maruki acts as almost a foil to Joker.</quote>Yep thanks for reminding me even more what a masterpiece this expansion washttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/0/6/AAcZIZAAEqHy.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/14/23 1:27:52 PM #115:	the royal villain ~~is a psychopath who violated sumire~~ --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974835449] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>the royal villain is a psychopath who violated sumire </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 07/14/23 1:30:24 PM #116:	AceMos posted... the royal villain ~~is a psychopath who violated sumire~~ He is definitionally not a psychopath, as a matter of fact he is an empath, the exact opposite.That doesn't mean he's in the right, and he doesn't need to be in order to be compelling. --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:974835488] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>the royal villain is a psychopath who violated sumire </quote>He is definitionally not a psychopath, as a matter of fact he is an empath, the exact opposite.That doesn't mean he's in the right, and he doesn't need to be in order to be compelling.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ArtiRock 07/14/23 1:32:35 PM #117:	AceMos posted... the royal villain ~~is a psychopath who violated sumire~~ No. The royal villain is ~~a man that was so determined to remove people's pain, that he overlooked that sometimes a person facing pain is the only real way for them to grow as a person.~~ ~~It wasn't done out of malice. It was done out of genuine care for her.~~ --- This is the duty of the Grim Angels. <cite>ArtiRock posted [p:974835567] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>the royal villain is a psychopath who violated sumire </quote>No. The royal villain is a man that was so determined to remove people's pain, that he overlooked that sometimes a person facing pain is the only real way for them to grow as a person. It wasn't done out of malice. It was done out of genuine care for her. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/14/23 1:32:53 PM #118:	~~he is not an empath at all he defiles ppls emotions and manipulates them~~ ~~he claims he cares about ppl but gets upset the moment they dont do what he wants them to and wants to force his world view on every one~~ --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974835577] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>he is not an empath at all he defiles ppls emotions and manipulates them he claims he cares about ppl but gets upset the moment they dont do what he wants them to and wants to force his world view on every one </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 07/14/23 1:38:57 PM #119:	an empath is someone who is extremely in tune with and empathizing or compassionate of other people's feelings. Psychopathy is the absence of empathy and a lack of usual emotional responses to stimuli. ~~Maruki's distorted desires stem from his overwhelming grief and compassion for Ruri so this is pretty open and shut~~ AceMos posted... ~~but gets upset the moment they dont do what he wants them to~~ Dude with the power of god gives you like two months to ruminate on his point of view and to come challenge him about it if you disagree. Not saying he is not manipulative, and there is nuance to his characterization and actions, but he is so for the purpose of realizing what he believes to be utopia. --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:974835719] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>an empath is someone who is extremely in tune with and empathizing or compassionate of other people's feelings. Psychopathy is the absence of empathy and a lack of usual emotional responses to stimuli. Maruki's distorted desires stem from his overwhelming grief and compassion for Ruri so this is pretty open and shutAceMos posted... </cite><quote>but gets upset the moment they dont do what he wants them to</quote>Dude with the power of god gives you like two months to ruminate on his point of view and to come challenge him about it if you disagree. Not saying he is not manipulative, and there is nuance to his characterization and actions, but he is so for the purpose of realizing what he believes to be utopia.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dabrikishaw15 07/14/23 1:41:25 PM #120:	Media has trained people to see all Utopia villains the same way even if they're characterized very differently from each other, because the nature of a utopia villain means they have to be wrong or there's no story left to tell. Maruki is not Jasmine from Angel. --- 3DS FC: 4382 - 2449 - 5707 IGN: Anthony <cite>Dabrikishaw15 posted [p:974835775] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Media has trained people to see all Utopia villains the same way even if they're characterized very differently from each other, because the nature of a utopia villain means they have to be wrong or there's no story left to tell. Maruki is not Jasmine from Angel.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/14/23 1:47:13 PM #121:	~~ok let me give you a scenario~~ ~~im a lesbian and if he believed id be happier strait he would just force me to be strait regardless of how i feel~~ ~~that is the kind of thing he is doing do i think he WOULD no no i do not but he is still doing that kind of thinking~~ ~~the idea he knows what will make people happy and he will force his idea of happy on to them~~ --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974835912] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>ok let me give you a scenarioim a lesbian and if he believed id be happier strait he would just force me to be strait regardless of how i feel that is the kind of thing he is doing do i think he WOULD no no i do not but he is still doing that kind of thinkingthe idea he knows what will make people happy and he will force his idea of happy on to them</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 07/14/23 1:49:49 PM #122:	This all seems like a semantics argument. --- Sigful User Logic <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:974835970] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>This all seems like a semantics argument. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 07/14/23 1:50:34 PM #123:	Everything in your post is right. He's still not a psychopath. The fact he is trying to make people happy based on how they would feel precludes him from being one. Like I'm not saying what he did is good. I'm talking about his motivations and thought process, which are what make him an interesting character, and not just a function in a scenario. --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:974835987] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Everything in your post is right. He's still not a psychopath. The fact he is trying to make people happy based on how they would feel precludes him from being one.Like I'm not saying what he did is good. I'm talking about his motivations and thought process, which are what make him an interesting character, and not just a function in a scenario.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gigageek1500 07/14/23 1:53:06 PM #124:	AceMos posted... ~~he is not an empath at all he defiles ppls emotions and manipulates them~~ ~~he claims he cares about ppl but gets upset the moment they dont do what he wants them to and wants to force his world view on every one~~ Yeah. That actually did a better job for me with the anti-PT arguments the main game had. I didn't really see any validity there until the Royal part. So tp was about a party character who's just obnoxious to be around and should have apologized to the party but never did BUT it's not Yusuke? idgi I did think Makoto was great and her phone's notification tone is my phone's now. --- "Like you're standing in front of them with your hands behind your back, and then present a small ribbon-wrapped gift to them." Duskmon on the colon <cite>gigageek1500 posted [p:974836040] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>he is not an empath at all he defiles ppls emotions and manipulates them he claims he cares about ppl but gets upset the moment they dont do what he wants them to and wants to force his world view on every one </quote>Yeah. That actually did a better job for me with the anti-PT arguments the main game had. I didn't really see any validity there until the Royal part.So tp was about a party character who's just obnoxious to be around and should have apologized to the party but never did BUT it's not Yusuke? idgiI did think Makoto was great and her phone's notification tone is my phone's now.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 07/14/23 1:54:54 PM #125:	Yusuke is hilarious so he gets a pass on literally anything. That's how character writing works. Not even kidding or disapproving. --- Sigful User Logic <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:974836084] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Yusuke is hilarious so he gets a pass on literally anything. That's how character writing works. Not even kidding or disapproving. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dabrikishaw15 07/14/23 1:57:29 PM #126:	BurmesePenguin posted... This all seems like a semantics argument. It is. That's what Utopia discussions turn into when the villain isn't given something objectively horrible about their methods for the audience to agree on. Acemos acting like Maruki practices gay conversion therapy is about the most extreme take on the man yet, but that's supported by nothing in the actual game because it's nowhere IN the actual game. She made it up to support her stance. Whereas again with Jasmine from Angel again, she has to eat and kill people every so often to fuel her Utopia. That's so objectionable no one watching that show would need to make up an argument against supporting her. --- 3DS FC: 4382 - 2449 - 5707 IGN: Anthony <cite>Dabrikishaw15 posted [p:974836130] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>BurmesePenguin posted... </cite><quote>This all seems like a semantics argument.</quote>It is. That's what Utopia discussions turn into when the villain isn't given something objectively horrible about their methods for the audience to agree on.Acemos acting like Maruki practices gay conversion therapy is about the most extreme take on the man yet, but that's supported by nothing in the actual game because it's nowhere IN the actual game. She made it up to support her stance.Whereas again with Jasmine from Angel again, she has to eat and kill people every so often to fuel her Utopia. That's so objectionable no one watching that show would need to make up an argument against supporting her.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/14/23 1:57:57 PM #127:	i trust we can all agree futaba is best bisexual autistic nerd girl with a spaceship persona --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974836138] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>i trust we can all agree futaba is best bisexual autistic nerd girl with a spaceship persona </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 07/14/23 1:59:40 PM #128:	I 100% believe Maruki would use his power to turn a gay person straight if they were struggling with their sexuality. --- Sigful User Logic <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:974836169] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>I 100% believe Maruki would use his power to turn a gay person straight if they were struggling with their sexuality. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dabrikishaw15 07/14/23 2:05:43 PM #129:	And I 100% believe Maruki would just have a gay person accept being gay and instead remove all the harmful things facing gay people in the world instead. See the issue here? I can just do that too and we'd be here all day. --- 3DS FC: 4382 - 2449 - 5707 IGN: Anthony <cite>Dabrikishaw15 posted [p:974836279] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>And I 100% believe Maruki would just have a gay person accept being gay and instead remove all the harmful things facing gay people in the world instead. See the issue here? I can just do that too and we'd be here all day.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 07/14/23 2:06:41 PM #130:	Why didn't he just do that for Sumire then? --- Sigful User Logic <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:974836293] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Why didn't he just do that for Sumire then?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 07/14/23 2:07:00 PM #131:	I think it's more likely he would rewrite previous experiences of their life so they have no reason to see their sexuality as something to struggle with. ~~Sumire wasn't quite consistent with his later full power rewrites since back then he only had the power to affirm the cognition people desired~~ Like when Yusuke's art classmate was bad at art, Maruki didn't actualize him to be good at it. Instead he left the kid's core self alone and rewrote history to have him try a discipline he was better suited for, archery. It wasn't quite within the game's scope to examine how Maruki would approach broad fiscal and cultural policy though, for better or for worse. (I raised an eyebrow that the homeless man was still at the subway) --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:974836302] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>I think it's more likely he would rewrite previous experiences of their life so they have no reason to see their sexuality as something to struggle with. Sumire wasn't quite consistent with his later full power rewrites since back then he only had the power to affirm the cognition people desiredLike when Yusuke's art classmate was bad at art, Maruki didn't actualize him to be good at it. Instead he left the kid's core self alone and rewrote history to have him try a discipline he was better suited for, archery. It wasn't quite within the game's scope to examine how Maruki would approach broad fiscal and cultural policy though, for better or for worse. (I raised an eyebrow that the homeless man was still at the subway)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 07/14/23 2:08:33 PM #132:	Morgana: I wanna be human Maruki: makes him human Gay person: I don't want to be gay Maruki: ???? --- Sigful User Logic <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:974836329] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Morgana: I wanna be humanMaruki: makes him humanGay person: I don't want to be gayMaruki: ????</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dancing_cactuar 07/14/23 2:11:26 PM #133:	Dabrikishaw15 posted... Acemos acting like Maruki practices gay conversion therapy is about the most extreme take on the man yet, but that's supported by nothing in the actual game because it's nowhere IN the actual game. She made it up to support her stance. Thanks for reminding me why I have that individual ignored, jesus fucking christ. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/2/9/AAZroiAAEqIJ.jpg --- Believing that Disney movies are for families is akin to buying into Nazi propaganda- LoyalToTheGame PS5s have liquid metal tech like the T-1000- AceCombatX <cite>dancing_cactuar posted [p:974836374] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Dabrikishaw15 posted... </cite><quote>Acemos acting like Maruki practices gay conversion therapy is about the most extreme take on the man yet, but that's supported by nothing in the actual game because it's nowhere IN the actual game. She made it up to support her stance.</quote>Thanks for reminding me why I have that individual ignored, jesus fucking christ.https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/2/9/AAZroiAAEqIJ.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 07/14/23 2:12:00 PM #134:	BurmesePenguin posted... ~~Morgana: I wanna be human~~ ~~Maruki explicitly handled the phantom thieves differently than he did society at large, though. He granted each of their deepest wishes for the purpose of winning their favor and support.~~ Not that this is really a hill to die on wither way though lol --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:974836389] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>BurmesePenguin posted... </cite><quote>Morgana: I wanna be human</quote>Maruki explicitly handled the phantom thieves differently than he did society at large, though. He granted each of their deepest wishes for the purpose of winning their favor and support.Not that this is really a hill to die on wither way though lol</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ArtiRock 07/14/23 2:14:36 PM #135:	BurmesePenguin posted... ~~Morgana: I wanna be human~~ Maruki: makes him human ~~Gay person: I don't want to be gay~~ ~~Maruki: ????~~ That depends on how they wished for it. ~~If they said "I want someone to accept me as gay" then society would be rewritten to do so. If they said "being gay causes me problems, I don't want to be gay." Then they'd be any sexuality but gay.~~ --- This is the duty of the Grim Angels. <cite>ArtiRock posted [p:974836432] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>BurmesePenguin posted... </cite><quote>Morgana: I wanna be humanMaruki: makes him humanGay person: I don't want to be gayMaruki: ????</quote>That depends on how they wished for it. If they said "I want someone to accept me as gay" then society would be rewritten to do so. If they said "being gay causes me problems, I don't want to be gay." Then they'd be any sexuality but gay. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Drrobotniks 07/14/23 2:26:06 PM #136:	Acemos being wrong again must be a day that ends in Y <cite>Drrobotniks posted [p:974836626] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Acemos being wrong againmust be a day that ends in Y</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Turbam 07/14/23 2:36:14 PM #137:	AceMos posted... i trust we can all agree futaba is best bisexual autistic nerd girl with a spaceship persona Only thing Futaba is best at is being terrible. --- ~snip (V)_(;,;)_(V) snip~ I'm just one man! Whoa! Well, I'm a one man band! https://imgur.com/p9Xvjvs <cite>Turbam posted [p:974836846] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>i trust we can all agree futaba is best bisexual autistic nerd girl with a spaceship persona</quote>Only thing Futaba is best at is being terrible.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/14/23 2:44:03 PM #138:	Dabrikishaw15 posted... Acemos acting like Maruki practices gay conversion therapy is about the most extreme take on the man yet II DID NO SUCH THING i flat out said he WOULD NOT do that i was using it as a example then flat out said no i dont think he would do that but thanks for spreading BS that every one is now taking as what i said when its not --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974837007] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Dabrikishaw15 posted... </cite><quote>Acemos acting like Maruki practices gay conversion therapy is about the most extreme take on the man yet</quote>II DID NO SUCH THINGi flat out said he WOULD NOT do thati was using it as a example then flat out said no i dont think he would do that but thanks for spreading BS that every one is now taking as what i said when its not </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ArtiRock 07/14/23 2:51:47 PM #139:	AceMos posted... II DID NO SUCH THING i flat out said he WOULD NOT do that i was using it as a example then flat out said no i dont think he would do that but thanks for spreading BS that every one is now taking as what i said when its not ~~But he doesn't "force" his idea on them. It's more like he just makes what they want realized.~~ --- This is the duty of the Grim Angels. <cite>ArtiRock posted [p:974837180] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>II DID NO SUCH THINGi flat out said he WOULD NOT do thati was using it as a example then flat out said no i dont think he would do that but thanks for spreading BS that every one is now taking as what i said when its not</quote>But he doesn't "force" his idea on them. It's more like he just makes what they want realized. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Rath_Attack 07/14/23 3:07:07 PM #140:	The point AceMos is making isnt actually unfounded. Apart from the archery example, theres also a NPC couple that broke up due to the boyfriends terrible spending habits however theyre back together during the third semester however with the girlfriend accepting it. Maruki goal is to remove suffering and would remove that before without dealing the issue itself. --- https://imgur.com/Id8bUit Rath_Attack by NoblWolf <cite>Rath_Attack posted [p:974837497] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>The point AceMos is making isnt actually unfounded. Apart from the archery example, theres also a NPC couple that broke up due to the boyfriends terrible spending habits however theyre back together during the third semester however with the girlfriend accepting it. Maruki goal is to remove suffering and would remove that before without dealing the issue itself.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyle1022 07/14/23 3:08:55 PM #141:	Ugh here I was just enjoying talking about my favorite game of all time. And then fucking AceMos had to come in and shit up the topic as always. Guess I'm out now <cite>Kyle1022 posted [p:974837535] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Ugh here I was just enjoying talking about my favorite game of all time. And then fucking AceMos had to come in and shit up the topic as always. Guess I'm out now </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/14/23 3:22:54 PM #142:	Kyle1022 posted... Ugh here I was just enjoying talking about my favorite game of all time. And then fucking AceMos had to come in and shit up the topic as always. Guess I'm out now i did not do anything --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974837796] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Kyle1022 posted... </cite><quote>Ugh here I was just enjoying talking about my favorite game of all time. And then fucking AceMos had to come in and shit up the topic as always. Guess I'm out now </quote>i did not do anything </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ultimate_reaver 07/14/23 3:25:20 PM #143:	yall people get upset about the weirdest stuff --- I pray god will curse the writer, as the writer has cursed the world with this beautiful, stupendous creation, terrible in its simplicity, irresistible in truth <cite>ultimate_reaver posted [p:974837834] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>yall people get upset about the weirdest stuff</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xXfireglzXx 07/14/23 3:44:12 PM #144:	Maruki's ideal is basically the idea of ~~seperating cause from effect. He wants only the effect, but doesn't care if the cause is how they got to that point.~~ The real insidious part about Maruki's "Reality" is how prone to confirmation bias it is. He thinks he's making everybody happy, but the truth of the situation is that the people that he's generated based on his perceptions and memories of them are happy. He looks at that and thinks, wow, a world without suffering is great, but it's like writing a novel and being the only one to read it while going, Wow, I'm really good at writing characters. Joker is the only one who can even CHALLENGE his world view, and that's the fucked up part of the whole arc. Although, you could argue that Akechi being "generated" the way he was is indicative of Maruki knowing what he was doing was wrong. If he believed Akechi's worldview was what was making him unhapy, he would have been obligated through his philosophy to override his conginition of it when he brought him back. --- Official ANCIENT Killer. I make account bets from time to time so either man up or shut up. The Quote is dedicated to those we have lost. <cite>xXfireglzXx posted [p:974838227] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Maruki's ideal is basically the idea of seperating cause from effect. He wants only the effect, but doesn't care if the cause is how they got to that point. The real insidious part about Maruki's "Reality" is how prone to confirmation bias it is. He thinks he's making everybody happy, but the truth of the situation is that the people that he's generated based on his perceptions and memories of them are happy. He looks at that and thinks, wow, a world without suffering is great, but it's like writing a novel and being the only one to read it while going, Wow, I'm really good at writing characters. Joker is the only one who can even CHALLENGE his world view, and that's the fucked up part of the whole arc. Although, you could argue that Akechi being "generated" the way he was is indicative of Maruki knowing what he was doing was wrong. If he believed Akechi's worldview was what was making him unhapy, he would have been obligated through his philosophy to override his conginition of it when he brought him back. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BlueAnnihilator 07/14/23 3:50:50 PM #145:	This topic went from being about Makoto, to waifu wars, to Maruki shit out of nowhere --- I agree with you, Blue. - FinalRockerdude, Vgmasta, ZeldaFan42, ObservanTeMK, Magoo111, E121Phi, re4master543, PJiddy, bloodmage3 (cont. in quote) <cite>BlueAnnihilator posted [p:974838344] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>This topic went from being about Makoto, to waifu wars, to Maruki shit out of nowhere</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ssb_yunglink2 07/14/23 4:17:00 PM #146:	I think the fact that maruki debates are still passionate proves how much more interesting he is than og p5s original boss, at the very least. Flawed man with god-like powers trying to create a utopia >>> whatever the fuck yaldy was trying to do <cite>ssb_yunglink2 posted [p:974838945] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>I think the fact that maruki debates are still passionate proves how much more interesting he is than og p5s original boss, at the very least. Flawed man with god-like powers trying to create a utopia >>> whatever the fuck yaldy was trying to do </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EthanSilver 07/14/23 4:29:14 PM #147:	BlueAnnihilator posted... This topic went from being about Makoto, to waifu wars, to Maruki shit out of nowhere Everybody knows Makoto is canon in terms of shipping with MC anyway. Hate all you you want TC... doesn't change that fact. And nobody is perfect anyway. You just jelly! https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/2/7/AAbXy-AAEqJr.png <cite>EthanSilver posted [p:974839137] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>BlueAnnihilator posted... </cite><quote>This topic went from being about Makoto, to waifu wars, to Maruki shit out of nowhere</quote>Everybody knows Makoto is canon in terms of shipping with MC anyway. Hate all you you want TC... doesn't change that fact. And nobody is perfect anyway. You just jelly!https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/2/7/AAbXy-AAEqJr.png </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 07/14/23 4:33:03 PM #148:	Canon romances in games with romance options are rightly ridiculed, though. You should not feel good that Makoto is in the company of the cancer that is Liara T'soni. --- Sigful User Logic <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:974839202] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Canon romances in games with romance options are rightly ridiculed, though. You should not feel good that Makoto is in the company of the cancer that is Liara T'soni. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Irony 07/14/23 4:34:58 PM #149:	Doe posted... Royal chapter secures P5 as best in the series The Royal parts are easily the worst in the series --- I am Mogar, God of Irony and The Devourer of Topics. <cite>Irony posted [p:974839251] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite><quote>Royal chapter secures P5 as best in the series</quote>The Royal parts are easily the worst in the series</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ironman2009 07/14/23 4:35:52 PM #150:	Ann - Kamoshida Makoto - Joker Haru - a can of head wax Futaba - a CEman All canon --- THRILLHO <cite>ironman2009 posted [p:974839273] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Ann - KamoshidaMakoto - JokerHaru - a can of head waxFutaba - a CEmanAll canon</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Makoto singlehandledly makes Persona 5 worse. *spoilers* (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Makoto singlehandledly makes Persona 5 worse. spoilers