Current Events > Makoto singlehandledly makes Persona 5 worse. spoilers

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TetsuoS2 07/14/23 8:59:40 PM #201:	ok but that's not all he does. a good deed doesnt absolve a bad one. --- the local octopus <cite>TetsuoS2 posted [p:974844469] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>ok but that's not all he does.a good deed doesnt absolve a bad one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Fenrir_Howls 07/14/23 9:08:10 PM #202:	ssb_yunglink2 posted... Okay what if somebodys problem with their sexuality is not that theyre ashamed of who they are, but rather that those around them dont accept them? He could just make everyone tolerant of all sexualities instead of making everyone straight. Except that's not what he has shown. It has pointed out in this topic examples on Maruki focusing on removing the reasoning for someone "suffering" rather than actually dealing with it. Based on that it'd be easier for him to "correct" that person rather than making everyone accept them, what's more they won't remember it. --- Loki's Good Boy <cite>Fenrir_Howls posted [p:974844647] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>ssb_yunglink2 posted...</cite><quote>Okay what if somebodys problem with their sexuality is not that theyre ashamed of who they are, but rather that those around them dont accept them? He could just make everyone tolerant of all sexualities instead of making everyone straight. </quote>Except that's not what he has shown. It has pointed out in this topic examples on Maruki focusing on removing the reasoning for someone "suffering" rather than actually dealing with it. Based on that it'd be easier for him to "correct" that person rather than making everyone accept them, what's more they won't remember it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dave_is_slick 07/14/23 11:48:06 PM #203:	ssb_yunglink2 posted... Okay what if somebodys problem with their sexuality is not that theyre ashamed of who they are, but rather that those around them dont accept them? He could just make everyone tolerant of all sexualities instead of making everyone straight. But he wouldn't as he made the wife of the gambling addict simply accept his addiction. Like I said, bending over backwards. --- The most relaxing version of Aquatic Ambiance I've ever heard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl61y1XM7sM <cite>dave_is_slick posted [p:974847380] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>ssb_yunglink2 posted... </cite><quote>Okay what if somebodys problem with their sexuality is not that theyre ashamed of who they are, but rather that those around them dont accept them? He could just make everyone tolerant of all sexualities instead of making everyone straight.</quote>But he wouldn't as he made the wife of the gambling addict simply accept his addiction. Like I said, bending over backwards.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dabrikishaw15 07/15/23 12:35:33 AM #204:	The point I'm making is that Maruki isn't shown doing something that inarguably horrible to begin with. If he had, he'd have been written as more one or two-dimensional as well first, and then the game itself would have just have the thieves point out all the baby eating he'd doing. All the hypotheticals about what he might do, in his favor or against, are entirely up to the induvial person to decide because he's not written like that. The "bending over backwards" comment is actually better aimed at the against side because they can't seem to take anyone not dumbing this character down into an easily digestible villain. For a game that wants to and normally falters on presenting compelling social topics it's actually to the game's favor Maruki is written like he currently is. --- 3DS FC: 4382 - 2449 - 5707 IGN: Anthony <cite>Dabrikishaw15 posted [p:974847983] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>The point I'm making is that Maruki isn't shown doing something that inarguably horrible to begin with. If he had, he'd have been written as more one or two-dimensional as well first, and then the game itself would have just have the thieves point out all the baby eating he'd doing.All the hypotheticals about what he might do, in his favor or against, are entirely up to the induvial person to decide because he's not written like that. The "bending over backwards" comment is actually better aimed at the against side because they can't seem to take anyone not dumbing this character down into an easily digestible villain. For a game that wants to and normally falters on presenting compelling social topics it's actually to the game's favor Maruki is written like he currently is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 1:09:11 AM #205:	~~he flat out forced his will on sumire and when she tried to reject him he threw a hissy fit~~ --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974848327] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>he flat out forced his will on sumire and when she tried to reject him he threw a hissy fit </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 5:30:27 AM #206:	ssb_yunglink2 posted... Now this is certainly opening a can of worms lmao. If youre influenced by maruki in this reality, then yeah youd see it as superior because youve basically been brainwashed. If you end up like joker as the only one NOT influenced itd be a weird nightmare world where nothing is real Maybe. Or maybe you'd just be happy? It's an idealized life for you, after all. Imagine all the children who don't have homes suddenly having homes. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974850118] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>ssb_yunglink2 posted... </cite><quote>Now this is certainly opening a can of worms lmao. If youre influenced by maruki in this reality, then yeah youd see it as superior because youve basically been brainwashed. If you end up like joker as the only one NOT influenced itd be a weird nightmare world where nothing is real</quote>Maybe. Or maybe you'd just be happy? It's an idealized life for you, after all. Imagine all the children who don't have homes suddenly having homes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Rath_Attack 07/15/23 6:18:43 AM #207:	Slayer_22 posted... Maybe. Or maybe you'd just be happy? It's an idealized life for you, after all. Because its a typical utopia trap where youre exchanging what Maruki believes would make you happy for any real choices. And people keep conflating the sweetheart deals the PTs got with what Maruki would do for everyone else, namely rewriting their cognition to suit what he thinks is their best lives even if it means changing their actual ambition or personality. Taking this as an example: Imagine all the children who don't have homes suddenly having homes. Maruki may do that by changing any behavior in those children people found undesirable (which can just as easily be behaving like a child) or by altering a couple who probably didnt have an interest in raising children in the first place. --- https://imgur.com/Id8bUit Rath_Attack by NoblWolf <cite>Rath_Attack posted [p:974850385] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Slayer_22 posted...</cite><quote>Maybe. Or maybe you'd just be happy? It's an idealized life for you, after all.</quote>Because its a typical utopia trap where youre exchanging what Maruki believes would make you happy for any real choices. And people keep conflating the sweetheart deals the PTs got with what Maruki would do for everyone else, namely rewriting their cognition to suit what he thinks is their best lives even if it means changing their actual ambition or personality.Taking this as an example:<quote>Imagine all the children who don't have homes suddenly having homes.</quote>Maruki may do that by changing any behavior in those children people found undesirable (which can just as easily be behaving like a child) or by altering a couple who probably didnt have an interest in raising children in the first place.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 8:48:46 AM #208:	Rath_Attack posted... Because its a typical utopia trap where youre exchanging what Maruki believes would make you happy for any real choices. And people keep conflating the sweetheart deals the PTs got with what Maruki would do for everyone else, namely rewriting their cognition to suit what he thinks is their best lives even if it means changing their actual ambition or personality. Taking this as an example: Maruki may do that by changing any behavior in those children people found undesirable (which can just as easily be behaving like a child) or by altering a couple who probably didnt have an interest in raising children in the first place. ...that doesn't sound as bad as you think it does. Children get to be happy, these couples get to be happy. Sounds like a win-win. But that's also assuming that's the only way it's gonna happen. I assume that would be a vast minority, if it even did happen. And think, no more trafficking either. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974851603] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Rath_Attack posted... </cite><quote>Because its a typical utopia trap where youre exchanging what Maruki believes would make you happy for any real choices. And people keep conflating the sweetheart deals the PTs got with what Maruki would do for everyone else, namely rewriting their cognition to suit what he thinks is their best lives even if it means changing their actual ambition or personality.Taking this as an example:Maruki may do that by changing any behavior in those children people found undesirable (which can just as easily be behaving like a child) or by altering a couple who probably didnt have an interest in raising children in the first place.</quote>...that doesn't sound as bad as you think it does. Children get to be happy, these couples get to be happy. Sounds like a win-win.But that's also assuming that's the only way it's gonna happen. I assume that would be a vast minority, if it even did happen.And think, no more trafficking either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheShadowViper 07/15/23 9:05:59 AM #209:	I like Maruki as the major antagonist because he really brings out the "free will" problem with the powers he and the phantom thieves possess. I think if he wasn't human, and rather some godlike entity doing what they think is right for people, he would probably be viewed more favorably. But since he is human, his fundamental problem is that he is using his free will to override others. Even if he is doing so benevolently, most people will have a problem with this. "What gives him the right?" Etc. There is also the problem that he isn't actually helping people get over their problems, he is simply removing them. This has extreme potential to simply stall human growth in general, as adversity is what pushes us to overcome our weaknesses. If he was a god, he could simply be thought of as a force of nature, and nature doesn't give a single shit about your "free will". But he is not, he is just a flawed human who experienced tragedy and was presented with power that in his pain he thought could help others, but he overstepped while doing so. <cite>TheShadowViper posted [p:974851788] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>I like Maruki as the major antagonist because he really brings out the "free will" problem with the powers he and the phantom thieves possess.I think if he wasn't human, and rather some godlike entity doing what they think is right for people, he would probably be viewed more favorably. But since he is human, his fundamental problem is that he is using his free will to override others. Even if he is doing so benevolently, most people will have a problem with this. "What gives him the right?" Etc. There is also the problem that he isn't actually helping people get over their problems, he is simply removing them. This has extreme potential to simply stall human growth in general, as adversity is what pushes us to overcome our weaknesses.If he was a god, he could simply be thought of as a force of nature, and nature doesn't give a single shit about your "free will". But he is not, he is just a flawed human who experienced tragedy and was presented with power that in his pain he thought could help others, but he overstepped while doing so. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 9:18:34 AM #210:	TheShadowViper posted... I like Maruki as the major antagonist because he really brings out the "free will" problem with the powers he and the phantom thieves possess. I think if he wasn't human, and rather some godlike entity doing what they think is right for people, he would probably be viewed more favorably. But since he is human, his fundamental problem is that he is using his free will to override others. Even if he is doing so benevolently, most people will have a problem with this. "What gives him the right?" Etc. There is also the problem that he isn't actually helping people get over their problems, he is simply removing them. This has extreme potential to simply stall human growth in general, as adversity is what pushes us to overcome our weaknesses. If he was a god, he could simply be thought of as a force of nature, and nature doesn't give a single shit about your "free will". But he is not, he is just a flawed human who experienced tragedy and was presented with power that in his pain he thought could help others, but he overstepped while doing so. Personally, I'd give away all my free will if it meant children or adults around the world weren't trafficked, every child had a home, no one suffered from poverty, and the people who truly deserved prison were there, or 'reformed'. That's just my personal thoughts on the matter. Like, to keep with a game example, Shiho. A reality where she didn't go through what she did is superior than the one where she did. I know, I know, growth through adversity. Whatever. But I'd give up that so that every child or adult never had to go through situations similar to that. That's just me, personally. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974851909] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>I like Maruki as the major antagonist because he really brings out the "free will" problem with the powers he and the phantom thieves possess.I think if he wasn't human, and rather some godlike entity doing what they think is right for people, he would probably be viewed more favorably. But since he is human, his fundamental problem is that he is using his free will to override others. Even if he is doing so benevolently, most people will have a problem with this. "What gives him the right?" Etc. There is also the problem that he isn't actually helping people get over their problems, he is simply removing them. This has extreme potential to simply stall human growth in general, as adversity is what pushes us to overcome our weaknesses.If he was a god, he could simply be thought of as a force of nature, and nature doesn't give a single shit about your "free will". But he is not, he is just a flawed human who experienced tragedy and was presented with power that in his pain he thought could help others, but he overstepped while doing so.</quote>Personally, I'd give away all my free will if it meant children or adults around the world weren't trafficked, every child had a home, no one suffered from poverty, and the people who truly deserved prison were there, or 'reformed'.That's just my personal thoughts on the matter.Like, to keep with a game example, Shiho.A reality where she didn't go through what she did is superior than the one where she did. I know, I know, growth through adversity. Whatever. But I'd give up that so that every child or adult never had to go through situations similar to that. That's just me, personally.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heyitsan_alt 07/15/23 9:27:56 AM #211:	Slayer_22 posted... Personally, I'd give away all my free will if it meant children or adults around the world weren't trafficked, every child had a home, no one suffered from poverty, and the people who truly deserved prison were there, or 'reformed'. That's just my personal thoughts on the matter. Like, to keep with a game example, Shiho. A reality where she didn't go through what she did is superior than the one where she did. I know, I know, growth through adversity. Whatever. But I'd give up that so that every child or adult never had to go through situations similar to that. That's just me, personally. Do you not see a flaw in the concept of making a decision to sacrifice your free will for the "greater good" when your free will ultimately was the only thing that enabled you to make that decision in the first place? <cite>Heyitsan_alt posted [p:974852003] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Slayer_22 posted... </cite><quote>Personally, I'd give away all my free will if it meant children or adults around the world weren't trafficked, every child had a home, no one suffered from poverty, and the people who truly deserved prison were there, or 'reformed'.That's just my personal thoughts on the matter.Like, to keep with a game example, Shiho.A reality where she didn't go through what she did is superior than the one where she did. I know, I know, growth through adversity. Whatever. But I'd give up that so that every child or adult never had to go through situations similar to that. That's just me, personally.</quote>Do you not see a flaw in the concept of making a decision to sacrifice your free will for the "greater good" when your free will ultimately was the only thing that enabled you to make that decision in the first place? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 9:29:38 AM #212:	Heyitsan_alt posted... Do you not see a flaw in the concept of making a decision to sacrifice your free will for the "greater good" when your free will ultimately was the only thing that enabled you to make that decision in the first place? I don't see a flaw there. But, in this case, if there was no free will, Maruki's reality still works out great so I'm fine with that also. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852019] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Heyitsan_alt posted... </cite><quote>Do you not see a flaw in the concept of making a decision to sacrifice your free will for the "greater good" when your free will ultimately was the only thing that enabled you to make that decision in the first place?</quote>I don't see a flaw there. But, in this case, if there was no free will, Maruki's reality still works out great so I'm fine with that also.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cemith 07/15/23 9:29:50 AM #213:	Last thing I'll say about Royal is I don't see anyone going 100 posts deep about ~~Yaldabaoth~~ --- https://i.ibb.co/2vRbyC0/Rosa-6.png "Friends don't let friends watch The Big Bang Theory" - mogar002 <cite>Cemith posted [p:974852021] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Last thing I'll say about Royal is I don't see anyone going 100 posts deep about Yaldabaoth </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 9:33:15 AM #214:	Slayer_22 posted... I don't see a flaw there. But, in this case, if there was no free will, Maruki's reality still works out great so I'm fine with that also. well i sure as fuck would not want to live in a reality with out my free will at the end of the day one single person or entity should never get to decide every ones life --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974852054] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Slayer_22 posted... </cite><quote>I don't see a flaw there. But, in this case, if there was no free will, Maruki's reality still works out great so I'm fine with that also.</quote>well i sure as fuck would not want to live in a reality with out my free will at the end of the day one single person or entity should never get to decide every ones life </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 9:35:42 AM #215:	AceMos posted... well i sure as fuck would not want to live in a reality with out my free will at the end of the day one single person or entity should never get to decide every ones life Even if the end result was no more victims of sex crimes? No more trafficking? No more poverty? Children all had loving homes and full bellies? You wouldn't give up your free will for these things? --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852084] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>well i sure as fuck would not want to live in a reality with out my free will at the end of the day one single person or entity should never get to decide every ones life</quote>Even if the end result was no more victims of sex crimes? No more trafficking? No more poverty? Children all had loving homes and full bellies? You wouldn't give up your free will for these things?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 07/15/23 9:37:11 AM #216:	Slayer_22 posted... Even if the end result was no more victims of sex crimes? No more trafficking? No more poverty? Children all had loving homes and full bellies? You wouldn't give up your free will for these things? It is nonsensical to claim you would. I don't think you understand the implications of what you're saying. --- Sigful User Logic <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:974852109] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Slayer_22 posted... </cite><quote>Even if the end result was no more victims of sex crimes? No more trafficking? No more poverty? Children all had loving homes and full bellies? You wouldn't give up your free will for these things?</quote>It is nonsensical to claim you would. I don't think you understand the implications of what you're saying. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheShadowViper 07/15/23 9:38:55 AM #217:	Slayer_22 posted... Even if the end result was no more victims of sex crimes? No more trafficking? No more poverty? Children all had loving homes and full bellies? You wouldn't give up your free will for these things? What makes you think that the absence of these things would not simply create other problems as bad or worse? What makes you think a human like Maruki is capable of handling all of these problems? That his system - which is straight up shown to be brainwashing and reality warping - is up to the task to handle all these problems? What it would take for Maruki to do what you are saying is turn the entire populace into puppets. Peace through brainwashing is what you are arguing for essentially. <cite>TheShadowViper posted [p:974852136] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Slayer_22 posted... </cite><quote>Even if the end result was no more victims of sex crimes? No more trafficking? No more poverty? Children all had loving homes and full bellies? You wouldn't give up your free will for these things?</quote>What makes you think that the absence of these things would not simply create other problems as bad or worse? What makes you think a human like Maruki is capable of handling all of these problems? That his system - which is straight up shown to be brainwashing and reality warping - is up to the task to handle all these problems?What it would take for Maruki to do what you are saying is turn the entire populace into puppets. Peace through brainwashing is what you are arguing for essentially. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 9:40:05 AM #218:	BurmesePenguin posted... It is nonsensical to claim you would. I don't think you understand the implications of what you're saying. It's a simple question. If you could give up your free will, and the moment you say yes, free will gone but all those positive things happened, would you? The end result is everyone would be happy. No loopholes. You give up free will, everyone is happy. No more trafficking. No more sexual assault. No more senseless murder. No more needless death. No more homelessness. No more poverty. Would you give up such a thing for that? I would. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852156] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>BurmesePenguin posted... </cite><quote>It is nonsensical to claim you would. I don't think you understand the implications of what you're saying.</quote>It's a simple question. If you could give up your free will, and the moment you say yes, free will gone but all those positive things happened, would you? The end result is everyone would be happy. No loopholes. You give up free will, everyone is happy. No more trafficking. No more sexual assault. No more senseless murder. No more needless death. No more homelessness. No more poverty. Would you give up such a thing for that?I would.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 07/15/23 9:40:46 AM #219:	It is not possible to be happy without free will. --- Sigful User Logic <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:974852166] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>It is not possible to be happy without free will. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 9:40:48 AM #220:	the entire concept from when the term was made was ment to be a BAD thing imagine this TC your a parent and you have a child who loves painting but they are not very good at it but they still enjoy it but they are frustrated by their lack of tallent maruki decides to force your child to give up painting to be happier are you ok with this --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974852168] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>the entire concept from when the term was made was ment to be a BAD thingimagine this TC your a parent and you have a child who loves painting but they are not very good at it but they still enjoy it but they are frustrated by their lack of tallentmaruki decides to force your child to give up painting to be happierare you ok with this </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 9:41:47 AM #221:	TheShadowViper posted... What makes you think that the absence of these things would not simply create other problems as bad or worse? What makes you think a human like Maruki is capable of handling all of these problems? That his system - which is straight up shown to be brainwashing and reality warping - is up to the task to handle all these problems? What it would take for Maruki to do what you are saying is turn the entire populace into puppets. Peace through brainwashing is what you are arguing for essentially. Nothing Maruki does is worse than the reality we live in tbh. If I could go back to a time where people close to me didn't have to deal with tragic events as detailed above, I'd have done it in a heart beat. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852182] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>What makes you think that the absence of these things would not simply create other problems as bad or worse? What makes you think a human like Maruki is capable of handling all of these problems? That his system - which is straight up shown to be brainwashing and reality warping - is up to the task to handle all these problems?What it would take for Maruki to do what you are saying is turn the entire populace into puppets. Peace through brainwashing is what you are arguing for essentially.</quote>Nothing Maruki does is worse than the reality we live in tbh. If I could go back to a time where people close to me didn't have to deal with tragic events as detailed above, I'd have done it in a heart beat. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TetsuoS2 07/15/23 9:42:03 AM #222:	what even happened to the truly terrible people that basically existed to fuck over others? --- the local octopus <cite>TetsuoS2 posted [p:974852187] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>what even happened to the truly terrible people that basically existed to fuck over others?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 9:44:58 AM #223:	BurmesePenguin posted... It is not possible to be happy without free will. Except the 'bad' ending kinda proves that wrong? AceMos posted... the entire concept from when the term was made was ment to be a BAD thing imagine this TC your a parent and you have a child who loves painting but they are not very good at it but they still enjoy it but they are frustrated by their lack of tallent maruki decides to force your child to give up painting to be happier are you ok with this Yeah, sure, given the implications of what happens to others. Let's up the ante with the loaded questions. Let's say you have a child. Your child was kidnapped and sold. Your child is saved after years of the worst torment imaginable. They won't speak. They are startled at every movement you make. They can't look you in the eyes. Would you accept Maruki's reality if it ensured this never happens? Or is the hardship and adversity going to be worth it in the end? --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852229] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>BurmesePenguin posted... </cite><quote>It is not possible to be happy without free will.</quote>Except the 'bad' ending kinda proves that wrong?AceMos posted... </cite><quote>the entire concept from when the term was made was ment to be a BAD thingimagine this TC your a parent and you have a child who loves painting but they are not very good at it but they still enjoy it but they are frustrated by their lack of tallentmaruki decides to force your child to give up painting to be happierare you ok with this</quote>Yeah, sure, given the implications of what happens to others. Let's up the ante with the loaded questions.Let's say you have a child. Your child was kidnapped and sold. Your child is saved after years of the worst torment imaginable. They won't speak. They are startled at every movement you make. They can't look you in the eyes. Would you accept Maruki's reality if it ensured this never happens? Or is the hardship and adversity going to be worth it in the end?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 9:46:23 AM #224:	TetsuoS2 posted... what even happened to the truly terrible people that basically existed to fuck over others? Iirc Shido is confirmed to be in prison and Madarame was made to be an actually good and kind person(same with Okumura). --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852249] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>TetsuoS2 posted... </cite><quote>what even happened to the truly terrible people that basically existed to fuck over others?</quote>Iirc Shido is confirmed to be in prison and Madarame was made to be an actually good and kind person(same with Okumura).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 9:48:55 AM #225:	so you dodged my question and no my question was not a loaded one it was a very basic scenario we KNOW he cant grant talent or anything --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974852281] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>so you dodged my question and no my question was not a loaded one it was a very basic scenario we KNOW he cant grant talent or anything </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 9:50:33 AM #226:	AceMos posted... so you dodged my question and no my question was not a loaded one it was a very basic scenario we KNOW he cant grant talent or anything I didn't dodge the question, I answered. If you want to call my question loaded, that's fine, but the fact that you didn't answer it gives me a reason to suspect you'd have agreed to Maruki's reality. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852291] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>so you dodged my question and no my question was not a loaded one it was a very basic scenario we KNOW he cant grant talent or anything</quote>I didn't dodge the question, I answered. If you want to call my question loaded, that's fine, but the fact that you didn't answer it gives me a reason to suspect you'd have agreed to Maruki's reality. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TetsuoS2 07/15/23 9:52:21 AM #227:	If everyone's happy then why would someone be happy in prison for a crime that a satisfied person won't commit? --- the local octopus <cite>TetsuoS2 posted [p:974852313] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>If everyone's happy then why would someone be happy in prison for a crime that a satisfied person won't commit? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cynrascal 07/15/23 9:53:00 AM #228:	TetsuoS2 posted... what even happened to the truly terrible people that basically existed to fuck over others? ~~Haru's dad is alive and acts like an overly doting father who wouldn't hesitate to spoil his daughter.~~ --- No, I don't care for Metacritic scores, sales numbers, and frivolous nonsense like frames and graphics. Why do you ask? <cite>Cynrascal posted [p:974852321] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>TetsuoS2 posted... </cite><quote>what even happened to the truly terrible people that basically existed to fuck over others?</quote>Haru's dad is alive and acts like an overly doting father who wouldn't hesitate to spoil his daughter.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 9:53:41 AM #229:	TetsuoS2 posted... If everyone's happy then why would someone be happy in prison for a crime that a satisfied person won't commit? You can be happy in prison. That being said, I don't think I would complain about Shido being in prison myself lmao. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852331] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>TetsuoS2 posted... </cite><quote>If everyone's happy then why would someone be happy in prison for a crime that a satisfied person won't commit?</quote>You can be happy in prison.That being said, I don't think I would complain about Shido being in prison myself lmao.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 9:53:44 AM #230:	saying yeah sure is not an answer as you then quickly throw out a very horrific scenario which is beyond fucked up but here is the thing why not just help that one person instead of altering every one --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974852333] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>saying yeah sure is not an answer as you then quickly throw out a very horrific scenario which is beyond fucked up but here is the thing why not just help that one person instead of altering every one</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 9:57:04 AM #231:	AceMos posted... saying yeah sure is not an answer as you then quickly throw out a very horrific scenario which is beyond fucked up but here is the thing why not just help that one person instead of altering every one Yeah, sure. That's a yes. I was saying that is fine. It's not that big a deal. The situation I put forth is a situation that has happened before and usually, tragically, the end result isn't a positive one. If Maruki's ideal reality would offer happiness to that situation, I'd take that in a heartbeat. Fuck my own free will. I'd rather people be happy, and situations like that never occur. So are you saying you wouldn't say yes to the previously posed awful, terrible situation? --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852366] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>saying yeah sure is not an answer as you then quickly throw out a very horrific scenario which is beyond fucked up but here is the thing why not just help that one person instead of altering every one</quote>Yeah, sure. That's a yes. I was saying that is fine. It's not that big a deal.The situation I put forth is a situation that has happened before and usually, tragically, the end result isn't a positive one. If Maruki's ideal reality would offer happiness to that situation, I'd take that in a heartbeat. Fuck my own free will. I'd rather people be happy, and situations like that never occur.So are you saying you wouldn't say yes to the previously posed awful, terrible situation?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TetsuoS2 07/15/23 9:57:23 AM #232:	Slayer_22 posted... You can be happy in prison. That being said, I don't think I would complain about Shido being in prison myself lmao. Sure but if nothing bad happens anymore then why would there even be a prison. --- the local octopus <cite>TetsuoS2 posted [p:974852372] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Slayer_22 posted... </cite><quote>You can be happy in prison.That being said, I don't think I would complain about Shido being in prison myself lmao.</quote>Sure but if nothing bad happens anymore then why would there even be a prison. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 9:59:15 AM #233:	Slayer_22 posted... Yeah, sure. That's a yes. I was saying that is fine. It's not that big a deal. The situation I put forth is a situation that has happened before and usually, tragically, the end result isn't a positive one. If Maruki's ideal reality would offer happiness to that situation, I'd take that in a heartbeat. Fuck my own free will. I'd rather people be happy, and situations like that never occur. So are you saying you wouldn't say yes to the previously posed awful, terrible situation? as i said why not just use his power on that one person --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974852398] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Slayer_22 posted... </cite><quote>Yeah, sure. That's a yes. I was saying that is fine. It's not that big a deal.The situation I put forth is a situation that has happened before and usually, tragically, the end result isn't a positive one. If Maruki's ideal reality would offer happiness to that situation, I'd take that in a heartbeat. Fuck my own free will. I'd rather people be happy, and situations like that never occur.So are you saying you wouldn't say yes to the previously posed awful, terrible situation?</quote>as i said why not just use his power on that one person </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TetsuoS2 07/15/23 9:59:42 AM #234:	Like yeah I get that in a lot of ways it's better. But I can't imagine the world being basically reset and myself spawning in prison and I'm supposed to be happy about that? --- the local octopus <cite>TetsuoS2 posted [p:974852404] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Like yeah I get that in a lot of ways it's better. But I can't imagine the world being basically reset and myself spawning in prison and I'm supposed to be happy about that? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 10:02:00 AM #235:	TetsuoS2 posted... Sure but if nothing bad happens anymore then why would there even be a prison. Well there was still a point where bad things did happen, and Maruki felt like he needed permanent punishment. TetsuoS2 posted... Like yeah I get that in a lot of ways it's better. But I can't imagine the world being basically reset and myself spawning in prison and I'm supposed to be happy about that? Shido, honestly, does he deserve happiness? --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852428] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>TetsuoS2 posted... </cite><quote>Sure but if nothing bad happens anymore then why would there even be a prison.</quote>Well there was still a point where bad things did happen, and Maruki felt like he needed permanent punishment.TetsuoS2 posted... </cite><quote>Like yeah I get that in a lot of ways it's better. But I can't imagine the world being basically reset and myself spawning in prison and I'm supposed to be happy about that?</quote>Shido, honestly, does he deserve happiness?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TetsuoS2 07/15/23 10:04:24 AM #236:	That's a dark question --- the local octopus <cite>TetsuoS2 posted [p:974852458] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>That's a dark question </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 10:05:13 AM #237:	AceMos posted... as i said why not just use his power on that one person I don't think it can be used on one person. Maruki had to change reality itself, not just a single person's cognition of reality. That being said, I do think the PTs should have asked about a more localized version of the actualization itself, to see if that's possible. But if it was possible to give certain people a choice of living in Maruki's reality over forcing it, I'd agree with that scenario over that. However, if given the choice of full actualization or none at all, I'd pick the former every time. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852470] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>as i said why not just use his power on that one person</quote>I don't think it can be used on one person. Maruki had to change reality itself, not just a single person's cognition of reality. That being said, I do think the PTs should have asked about a more localized version of the actualization itself, to see if that's possible.But if it was possible to give certain people a choice of living in Maruki's reality over forcing it, I'd agree with that scenario over that. However, if given the choice of full actualization or none at all, I'd pick the former every time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 10:05:37 AM #238:	TetsuoS2 posted... That's a dark question This is a dark topic. I just wanted to talk about how bad Makoto is. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852478] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>TetsuoS2 posted... </cite><quote>That's a dark question</quote>This is a dark topic. I just wanted to talk about how bad Makoto is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 10:12:12 AM #239:	Slayer_22 posted... I don't think it can be used on one person. yes it can we see this even --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974852572] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>Slayer_22 posted... </cite><quote>I don't think it can be used on one person.</quote>yes it can we see this even </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 10:21:51 AM #240:	AceMos posted... yes it can we see this even Fair enough. I completely forgot he used his actualization on Sumire. It's been awhile since I played(I'm replaying now). However, wouldn't that cause issues with other people recognizing these changes and questioning it, possibly causing them to relapse? I suppose if Maruki had an island where he could make people happy, that's the ideal situation but given the choice between the two endings, I choose Maruki's reality. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852690] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>yes it can we see this even</quote>Fair enough. I completely forgot he used his actualization on Sumire. It's been awhile since I played(I'm replaying now).However, wouldn't that cause issues with other people recognizing these changes and questioning it, possibly causing them to relapse?I suppose if Maruki had an island where he could make people happy, that's the ideal situation but given the choice between the two endings, I choose Maruki's reality.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 10:23:41 AM #241:	not just sumire he used it on his fucking wife which was fucked up beyond belief and shows his real motivations its not about making others happy its about making himself feel better about his inability to help --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974852717] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>not just sumire he used it on his fucking wife which was fucked up beyond belief and shows his real motivations its not about making others happyits about making himself feel better about his inability to help </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 10:29:05 AM #242:	AceMos posted... not just sumire he used it on his fucking wife which was fucked up beyond belief and shows his real motivations its not about making others happy its about making himself feel better about his inability to help Oh yeah, didn't she fall into a catatonic state and practically lived in a hospital and never spoke, and the only reactions she had were breakdowns when he mentioned her family? Iirc Maruki used his actualization on her, and she was able to be happy without all this trauma. How was that fucked up beyond belief? I'm willing to bet that after all this, she went back to the awful situation she was in. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852801] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>not just sumire he used it on his fucking wife which was fucked up beyond belief and shows his real motivations its not about making others happyits about making himself feel better about his inability to help</quote>Oh yeah, didn't she fall into a catatonic state and practically lived in a hospital and never spoke, and the only reactions she had were breakdowns when he mentioned her family?Iirc Maruki used his actualization on her, and she was able to be happy without all this trauma.How was that fucked up beyond belief?I'm willing to bet that after all this, she went back to the awful situation she was in.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 10:30:16 AM #243:	i have a question do YOU have any mental health issues --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974852819] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>i have a question do YOU have any mental health issues </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 10:34:18 AM #244:	AceMos posted... i have a question do YOU have any mental health issues If I do they're likely undiagnosed. Therapy is difficult to afford and schedule, sadly. :( --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974852889] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>i have a question do YOU have any mental health issues</quote>If I do they're likely undiagnosed. Therapy is difficult to afford and schedule, sadly. :(</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 10:39:51 AM #245:	well i am autistic and i dont want my brain fucked with to be "fixed" see people like you and maruki view us as burdens to be fixed you view every one with mental health issues as burdens to be fixed japan in particular has a very negative stigma about mental health which the game was actually calling out rather than helping her recover which yes people can recover from trauma with proper treatment i bet rumi would have preferred to keep the man she loved in her life even if she had to life with the pain of what she saw --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974852967] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>well i am autistic and i dont want my brain fucked with to be "fixed"see people like you and maruki view us as burdens to be fixedyou view every one with mental health issues as burdens to be fixedjapan in particular has a very negative stigma about mental health which the game was actually calling out rather than helping her recover which yes people can recover from trauma with proper treatment i bet rumi would have preferred to keep the man she loved in her life even if she had to life with the pain of what she saw </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 10:51:17 AM #246:	AceMos posted... well i am autistic and i dont want my brain fucked with to be "fixed" see people like you and maruki view us as burdens to be fixed you view every one with mental health issues as burdens to be fixed japan in particular has a very negative stigma about mental health which the game was actually calling out rather than helping her recover which yes people can recover from trauma with proper treatment i bet rumi would have preferred to keep the man she loved in her life even if she had to life with the pain of what she saw Uhh, please don't accuse me of things I didn't say. That's incredibly fucked up. I never said anything of the sort. Wtf? I never brought up your mental health at ALL. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974853123] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>well i am autistic and i dont want my brain fucked with to be "fixed"see people like you and maruki view us as burdens to be fixedyou view every one with mental health issues as burdens to be fixedjapan in particular has a very negative stigma about mental health which the game was actually calling out rather than helping her recover which yes people can recover from trauma with proper treatment i bet rumi would have preferred to keep the man she loved in her life even if she had to life with the pain of what she saw</quote>Uhh, please don't accuse me of things I didn't say. That's incredibly fucked up. I never said anything of the sort. Wtf? I never brought up your mental health at ALL. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 07/15/23 10:53:24 AM #247:	this entire discussion is ABOUT mental health that is what royal is about --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:974853155] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>this entire discussion is ABOUT mental health that is what royal is about</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 07/15/23 10:57:12 AM #248:	AceMos posted... this entire discussion is ABOUT mental health that is what royal is about And it's also about you accusing me of the incredibly messed up stuff you accused me of? Yeah, no, I don't want to continue this discussion so I'm gonna block you so I don't have to deal with your disgusting assertions about stuff I didn't say. I'll unblock you after this topic is gone. --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:974853193] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>this entire discussion is ABOUT mental health that is what royal is about</quote>And it's also about you accusing me of the incredibly messed up stuff you accused me of? Yeah, no, I don't want to continue this discussion so I'm gonna block you so I don't have to deal with your disgusting assertions about stuff I didn't say.I'll unblock you after this topic is gone.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ironman2009 07/15/23 11:00:09 AM #249:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/8/8/AAa0vfAAEixM.jpg --- THRILLHO <cite>ironman2009 posted [p:974853225] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/8/8/AAa0vfAAEixM.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MaxEffingBemis 07/15/23 11:33:45 AM #250:	ironman2009 posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/8/8/AAa0vfAAEixM.jpg Pretty much --- She took pity on me, horizontally, but most likely because of my band <cite>MaxEffingBemis posted [p:974853784] in Makoto sin... [t:80508263]...</cite> <quote>ironman2009 posted... </cite><quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/8/8/AAa0vfAAEixM.jpg</quote>Pretty much </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Makoto singlehandledly makes Persona 5 worse. *spoilers* (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Makoto singlehandledly makes Persona 5 worse. spoilers