Board 8 > Bout to start FF3 pixel remaster

(+) Yeah! (+)

Any tips from veterans would be appreciated. Missables, how to break the game, etc

I own the original famicom version and the ds remake, but its been so long that i barely remember either. So this is pretty much gonna be an entirely fresh experience for me

Get into a battle and a guitar just melts my face

they really went hard on these PR soundtracks

I don't think there are imortant missables but if you're trying to get the plat maybe consult a guide. There are locations that disappear entirely after a bit.

If you've played FFV you might think there's value in keeping lower jobs around, but in this game you should drop almost everything for the new set of jobs. Breaking the game just means using the last two jobs exclusively.

the only missables are if youre trying for 100% bestiary and treasure chest completion achievements as there are a few areas you cant go back to. No jobs or spells are permanently missable. There is technically a point of no return but you cant save after it anyway

Not sure if this was changed for PR, but it's beneficial to rotate all your characters through high Vit jobs to keep their HP up.

If you want all the trophies/achievements there's one permanently missable location, and several locations that lock you out upon completion, so you need all the bestiary entries, chests, and hidden items from those before leaving.

You also have to fight the Nepto Dragon at least once (and run away immediately) despite the game telling you not to at the time, since it disappears as soon as you finish the associated dungeon with it.

TomNook7 posted...

Any tips from veterans would be appreciated. Missables, how to break the game, etc

I own the original famicom version and the ds remake, but its been so long that i barely remember either. So this is pretty much gonna be an entirely fresh experience for me

Under no circumstances neglect buff spells. They are absolutely backbreakingly OP for bossfights and IIRC they stack. Use em!!! The game starts making so much sense when you do.

Thanks guys i knew i could count on you. Sounds like i can just chill through the game and not worry too much

Also holy crap this is the fastest ive ever gotten an airship

Tagging this. Currently going through the Steam version of the game (had it in backlog for a while, haven't gotten the pixel remasters yet). Just beat Goldor.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/5/8/AAK53VAAEn1u.jpg

its gonna be another weird one i see

WazzupGenius00 posted...

There is technically a point of no return but you cant save after it anyway

I think the auto save can save after it but manual saves can't. So if a player doesn't manual save before it, they can get stuck.

Honestly of all the games that needed a definitive edition, it was definitely FF3.

It's always existed in this weird space where either you're some purist power gamer who played the original someway somehow, or you're a hopeless romantic who played the DS remake because that's all we ever got.

I kinda dabbled in both? I remember FF3 DS had actual characters with an actual story, but like... it somehow ended up feeling less charming than just four 8-bit sprites named Onion Knight?

Like I always thought it was funny if you played Dissidia, the dude's name is just Onion Knight. Its like I wanna know THAT guy's story, not so much... Luneth's or whatever.

Like the DS version is fine. Its the first official english release, its got updated graphics, and its portable. But I think it was KanzarisKeishen in my previous FF topic who went on this huge rant about how much of an unbalanced mess that game was. I dunno man. Just thankful we got the pixel remaster now so we can put it all to bed.

And honestly the pixel remaster is a blast so far. The pacing is just crazy. One hour in and I've encountered a ghost town, flew an airship, and got the princess to fall for me. This game just goes.

This game is so unhinged. Escape the nest of baby bahamuts, get shrunk down and explore a tiny village, meet some vikings, and now its time for the ultimate boss fight - 4 mini dudes vs 1 giant rat

Yeah the pacing feels almost closer to an snes game than 1 and 2.

I am glad people are getting to play FF3 properly finally. The DS remake was a disaster. 3 is much better than 1 and 2.

Also as for the PR OSTs, just wait til 5 and 6. They did some amazing work with those two.

Guilty as charged of ranting about how muxh FF3DS sux

It really is just a worse game than an NES game and that is the most damning thing anyone could possibly say about a remake. Like, bro, your base game is from the stone age of gaming and you can't do better? Really????

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Guilty as charged of ranting about how muxh FF3DS sux

It really is just a worse game than an NES game and that is the most damning thing anyone could possibly say about a remake. Like, bro, your base game is from the stone age of gaming and you can't do better? Really????

this is how i feel about ff7 remake lol

I'm pretty sure the steam version is basically the same as the DS version? What makes it so bad? Gonna finish it either way (just took down Garuda), but curious. Thinking of the pixel remasters to at least play FFs 1 and 2, mainly to see if it makes 2 improve at all.

I just finished ff2 pixel today for the first time and it was okay. Really doubt it fixes anything compared to the NES except being able to turn off battles and set your gains to 4x to minimize grinding.

skullbone posted...

I just finished ff2 pixel today for the first time and it was okay. Really doubt it fixes anything compared to the NES except being able to turn off battles and set your gains to 4x to minimize grinding.

Kinda sad to hear that actually. Was lowkey hoping that game could get some redemption

oh wow i didnt know the warriors of darkness from ff14 first appeared in ff3. good shit

FFXIV spoilers:
Crystal Tower raid and basically everything relating to it - including the new Eureka Deep Dungeon, and the majority of Shadowbringers - is basically a huge love letter/reference to FF3. Locations and music included.

im still chipping away at ff14 so i will not be clicking that

But damn guys ff3 is dope!

There's certainly no need to click that as the parts you do know will be nice surprises as you find them.

Hitting the world map in FF3 the first time for me was a jawdropper for me as the song is used in an expansion later on but you might not be there yet. It's amazing to me how well 14 reuses and modernizes these old songs.

For FF2 - I've only played FF2 Pixel Remaster and not the original, but it sounds like the stat gain stuff is way way better? There's no chance to lose stats, and stats increased the way I expected based in battle, which I've come to understand was very frustrating in the original. I had a good time grindin out my abilities to break my characters by the end. Grinding out every spell was maybe not worth it.

I say a curse on both of FFIII's houses. DS is probably worse, but I don't want to deal with either again.

mccheyne posted...

I'm pretty sure the steam version is basically the same as the DS version? What makes it so bad?

Pixel Remaster is so different from the DS version that I have to assume you're talking about the -other- Steam version which is basically a port of the DS version. Nobody could possibly play Pixel Remaster and not notice the differences (and I don't even mean the graphics).

If you only had to play one Pixel Remaster, play 3.

1's Pixel Remaster is the version to play if you want the old magic system.

2 you should avoid the PC version as it's missing the quality of life features the consoles have.

3 is the actual definitive version of 3, plus you can FINALLY save in a dungeon.

4 is a great version of 4 and has a couple of small quality of life changes built-in (Bows having infinite ammo being the big one).

5 has some annoying issues with the rebalancing and ATB system.

6 you should really avoid the PC version as the console release fixed a lot of PC's issues but the PC version also lets you mod the opera scene into a different language where they said screw it and got an actual singer instead of someone purposefully singing poorly.

German FF6 Opera hits so hard
TomNook7 posted...

Get into a battle and a guitar just melts my face

they really went hard on these PR soundtracks

Boy did they

TomNook7 posted...

this is how i feel about ff7 remake lol

This is an interesting topic to me because I get why FF7 diehards don't like remake at all...but at the same time, I'm not an ff7 diehard (I just enjoy it because it's an excellent game) and mannnnnn 7R just, did a lot of things so much better. You can tell that two decades and change of game design happened inbetween, y'know? It's kind of amazing how 7 gives you this big-ass materia system and yet the only actual options are 'did you equip enemy skill on this character' and then later on 'did you equip 2x/4x cut on this char or did you go quadra magic or kotr spam'.

No matter what I tried in 7R I could always get use of it and that matters a lot to me. Games should not add choices if the choices are traps, and nothing except the baseball bat in 7R is a trap (and the bat is a very obvious joke weapon).

Back on topic though...it's actually crazy how crisp PR makes 3 feel. It's an old game, but it feels lean and clean in a lot of ways that the DS version didn't. It's easy to see why it was such a megahit in Japan and has such an enduring legacy, in hindsight.

Oh, it has in-dungeon saving? That must help a ton, actually.

UltimaterializerX posted...

@LazyKenny

What specifically did 5 rebalance?

The biggest changes were a nerf to the weight system (penalties every 4 units instead of every 8) and the starting ATB being randomized instead of starting higher when playing higher agility jobs such as Thief.

I'm not counting bugfixes as balance changes.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

This is an interesting topic to me because I get why FF7 diehards don't like remake at all...but at the same time, I'm not an ff7 diehard (I just enjoy it because it's an excellent game) and mannnnnn 7R just, did a lot of things so much better. You can tell that two decades and change of game design happened inbetween, y'know? It's kind of amazing how 7 gives you this big-ass materia system and yet the only actual options are 'did you equip enemy skill on this character' and then later on 'did you equip 2x/4x cut on this char or did you go quadra magic or kotr spam'.

No matter what I tried in 7R I could always get use of it and that matters a lot to me. Games should not add choices if the choices are traps, and nothing except the baseball bat in 7R is a trap (and the bat is a very obvious joke weapon).

I feel like OG FF7 is by far the more strategic game though that materia system is pretty robust, and can make for some interesting builds.

FF7Rs combat doesnt really make me feel like im actually making any meaningful choices. All the battles in FF7R feel pretty samey despite how much effort i put into it

Nah 7's system has no depth because using just about all the green materia is a huge trap except for Cure. Enemy Skill just has so much more mp efficiency and damage. You don't get any interesting command materia until the endgame either so no fun to be had there either. I guess Deathblow for Vincent maaaaaybe? But his STR is so mediocre that going for the crit setup isnt worth it.

For comparison's sake, let's look at just Cloud and only Cloud in 7R here. Here's a fairly typical decision tree on what you do with him...

1) Phys or magic weapon? Right off the bat, this instantly changes your combat pattern. Going Hardedge or Buster Sword is going to make you focus more on Braver, Infinity's End and Punisher Mode. Magic will instead favor Operator Mode, Blade Beam and, of course, -Aga spells to blow shit up. As a side consequence of this choice, you also decide if Cloud is going to mostly spend MP nuking or buffing/healing. So we've already set combat role and playstyle off one choice...or so you'd think.

2) Disorder or no? This affects phys builds particularly dramatically, as you're pretty much setting your aggression dial. Do you want to commit to combo cycling? How about using ATB Master or not to fuel your other characters' ATB bars? If you're not disordering, how are you cranking up the stagger bar?

3) What is your primary defensive option? Counterstance? Blocking? Deadly Dodge? Parry? Are you leaning into Punisher Mode punishes or not? This affects how many 'turns' you and your enemies take, and as any gamer will tell you, action advantage is god...but there's no 100% obvious answer and your choice is fairly committal.

4) How about your healing? Cure or Prayer? Or maybe even Chakra? Or do you sac offensive options and run both?

5) Which summon are you using, and are you just summoning them for their finisher or actually using their commands? Having Bahamut vs Carbuncle makes a huuuuuge diff.

6) Now we can actually talk about the Materia and equipment loadout. What spells and commands do you bring as supplements and why? Do you roll with a berserker ring or do you use Cloud's swordplant to zerk your damage up? Or do you use neither and instead employ something defensive? Or perhaps a Gotterdammerung?

These are all questions you can write multi-paragraph answers about. They're not reducible complexity. And this is for *one character*, without getting into party composition or other pc's loadouts! By contrast, is there a reason you can't mostly sum up ff7 played well with 'use enemy skill, gg' for most of its duration? Maybe I just was a huge baddie and played it wrong but I felt like I chewed through most of that game with my ESs and the other parts of my loadout were.a formality. Are there viable alternatives from Kalm onwards to the start of disk 3 that I missed?

EDIT: To be clear, this isn't me saying FF7 OG is bad, at all. I love it! I just feel the combat system ends up kinda destroyed by ES until the endgame and the alternative choices are so weak comparatively they feel very not-good. It's kinda like how FF8 is one of my top 5 or top 10 games of all time and yet if someone told me that the limit breaks kinda obliterate balance and other options I'd just go '...yeah p much'. It be like that sometimes. The rest of the game is so strong it just makes up for the fact making alternative choices just means picking worse choices, is all.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I just feel the combat system ends up kinda destroyed by ES

Most people play through FF7 without even using Enemy Skill.

Also I fundamentally disagree with the notion that having some bad choices somehow makes all choice irrelevant. If anything it is the opposite- if everything is effective, choices are an illusion.

I gotta agree with that overall assessment of FF7's combat system. It feels really open-ended but very few decisions matter at all and its character differences are almost boiled down to nothing more than animation/limit sets. Innate stats outside of Aerith (lol) are almost down to FF14 racial bonus levels of insignificance.

FF7R by contrast has not only a much more impactful materia system, but the excellent weapon system that meaningfully shapes characters, who themselves already have unique kits that set them apart from one another. The end result is much deeper and richer party-based gameplay compared to the OG.

tcaz2 posted...

Also I fundamentally disagree with the notion that having some bad choices somehow makes all choice irrelevant. If anything it is the opposite- if everything is effective, choices are an illusion.

What is this take

No, if everything is effective choices are truer than ever because they become a matter of player expression instead of system optimization. Choosing between a high DPS style and a debuff heavy style that can both win comfortably says something about you as a person which is the ultimate goal of any given system that allows build construction -- to let you express yourself through it. I appreciate it when games let me play in a way that feels distinctly mine, even if logically speaking other players are doing it too. It engages me more than something like 'oh it's ff6 so imma just cast ultimas and go home, gg'. Not all games need to allow for this kind of broad customization, but if they're trying to at all, this should be the final goal. It's OK if not everything is as good, but the idea is players shouldn't have to have a phd in your game's mechanics to know if something is worth doing or not! It just punishes players who don't datamine and that blows.

Just because a particular strategy is optimal doesn't mean other strategies are viable.

pjbasis posted...

Just because a particular strategy is optimal doesn't mean other strategies are n't viable.

Sure, but when the gap is 'do things like thrice as fast and twice as efficiently' it's uh, hard to justify going for something else IMO

Not everything has to be exactly equal, but options should be roughly balanced. Otherwise dispensing with options is legitimately better, because it means the designers can tune things more finely knowing exactly what you're going to have and make combats more spicy.

this topic has pushed me to go ahead and listen to the PR soundtracks

my lord celes' theme

ok now to be fair, FF7 is an incredibly easy game so almost everything is "viable". Picking "Fight" or using random offensive magic will do the job for like 90% of the game with only a couple of glaring difficulty spikes (materia keeper, childhood me is lookin at you.)

but what Kanz says is true, most options in the game are kind of garbage. even as a kid, after a point, I just decided to flood my materia slots with "HP up" and mash attack for almost everything. The original game is great for a lot of things but gameplay is NOT one of those reasons, I'd go so far to say a its a major regression even from some of its prequels.