Current Events > So are you in support or against the reddit mods with whats going on atm?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It seems there are some are like "mod have too much power, get rekt" when someone got demodded on reddit posts.

Hard to say since I hardly use reddit anyways and it's only on my desktop, so don't understand a lot of the api aspects. Always nice to see something shitting the bed though like Reddit did for a while with all the mess going on.

Supporting. Reddit is being an asshole solely for greedy reasons.

pegusus123456 posted...

Supporting. Reddit is being an asshole solely for greedy reasons.

I support the users who are affected by the changes. That was my first understanding of this whole thing - that users didnt want to be forced to use the shitty first party app when superior third party alternatives exist.

Dont so much care about the mods. The function of a forum mod should begin and end with deleting outright illegal content. Anything more than that is unnecessary and intrusive.

lol @ Reddit itself.

the only thing in that wall of text infographic that made me sympathetic was the bit about accessibility features.

the one part about "reddit's api changes are going to mean child sex trafficking rings will spread across the site" made me raise an eyebrow. felt kind of sensationalist and made me doubt most of the other stuff. >_>

but overall I'll still side with the protest because siding against a major corporation is almost always the right move. Nothing wrong with knocking them down a few pegs.

It's really hard to want to side with some of the reddit mods when many of them only seem to care about keeping power rather than the cause they are protesting.

Reddit api changes are dumb and it's bound to backfire on them. But it's also funny watching t the reddit mods learn they don't actually have any real power.

Kim_Seong-a posted...

the only thing in that wall of text infographic that made me sympathetic was the bit about accessibility features.

the one part about "reddit's api changes are going to mean child sex trafficking rings will spread across the site" made me raise an eyebrow. felt kind of sensationalist and made me doubt most of the other stuff. >_>

but overall I'll still side with the protest because siding against a major corporation is almost always the right move. Nothing wrong with knocking them down a few pegs.

I mean, when was the last time a tech innovation to protect children was actually about that? It never is.

Combating child exploitation is a very real operation behind the scenes, but its not done by means that just so happen to also be profitable to a corporation or increase government surveillance power.

Changes made to those effects are always made for those effects.

I support the mods. Without them, Reddit would be a haven for child porn.

It's like a WWE heel vs heel battle, there's no one to cheer for in this fight.

Against.

99% of us normal reddit users do not give a fuck about this API policy change. The subreddits being closed down by the mods negatively affects us far, far more than any API change ever could.

Also, the argument these third party apps raise is so bad. "Look, we've been stealing from you for so long, a lot of people like using the work that we steal from you with. You can't just stop us from stealing from you like this!"

always have been against and it's been wild to see the vast majority go from hating me to updooting me. Not saying I'm nostradamous, because what rational human didn't see this outcome? Vibes of "Doreen from antiwork" painted all over this.

I read a great analogy: The "mods" (meter maids moreso than community managers) are cutting the branch off the tree on which they are sitting. Enjoy your downfall!

Anyone remember with the Net Neutrality thing, which was basically the same outcome? Of course you don't. Just like no one will remember this.

I do not care, really. Reddit is a platform that has never been profitable and has a massive user base to support; they want to do an IPO to take the company public -- these are changes are going to happen whether the mods like it or not. The IPO was delayed, probably because they knew they couldn't be profitable with their existing model. At best, they will haggle over the API cost; at worst, new mods.

Profit deets:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petersuciu/2023/06/14/reddit-blackout-casts-spotlight-on-its-failure-to-turn-a-profit/

IPO:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/reddit-ipo-finally-happen-later-173238793.html

xGhostchantx posted...

At best, they will haggle over the API cost

That's the thing, everyone would be happy with that. No one was asking reddit not to charge them, just not charge them like 100x more than other companies.

All this John Oliver shit is super fucking annoying.

So much goddamn shilling. Is this 261's influence?

billcom6 posted...

All this John Oliver shit is super fucking annoying.

That's what those greedy reddit admins and the greedy pos CEO gets. They are trying to make reddit as profitable as possible before selling it or some shit at the cost of the remaining soul of reddit. It used to be great until they started banning good subs about 5-7 years ago and now this shit happens

GSWarriors- posted...

That's what those greedy reddit admins and the greedy pos CEO gets. They are trying to make reddit as profitable as possible before selling it or some shit at the cost of the remaining soul of reddit. It used to be great until they started banning good subs about 5-7 years ago and now this shit happens

Wasn't that when they got rid of thedonald and a bunch of other hate subs? Those the subs you're mad about them closing?

pegusus123456 posted...

That's the thing, everyone would be happy with that. No one was asking reddit not to charge them, just not charge them like 100x more than other companies.

Well, that's the other thing. They want to sell, and free mods are borderline an infinitely reproducible resource for sites like this. Chances of it being haggled are not good, when they can sell and have their own in-house app that you have to pay a subscription for. Ultimately, the opinion of the mods is less than worthless, as it actively harms the profit potential.

loafy013 posted...

Wasn't that when they got rid of thedonald and a bunch of other hate subs? Those the subs you're mad about them closing?

No, they got rid of some NSFW subs

like jailbait?

edit: didn't someone add spez as a mod of jailbait to manufacture a pedo accusation against him? lol. i mean its bad enough to oversee a site where that shit exists, but even the mods of that sub knew they were in the black, trying to take pot shots as they go down

All Reddit had to do was to introduce reasonable API fees.

leafsRULE posted...

like jailbait?

edit: didn't someone add spez as a mod of jailbait to manufacture a pedo accusation against him? lol. i mean its bad enough to oversee a site where that shit exists, but even the mods of that sub knew they were in the black, trying to take pot shots as they go down

Fuck no. I'm talking about subs that showed the deaths of people which was pretty educational and showed us what to do or not to do in situations to avoid those accidents. Sub where they showed random hot women doing NSFW stuff which they might or might not be aware that they were being recorded, another sub that people photoshopped to be able to see through women's top. Pretty sure that's all legal but they wanted to clean up reddit to make it "look better" otherwise those subs probably would've been banned way sooner

Fuck reddit.
I can only wish them the worst.

GSWarriors- posted...

Sub where they showed random hot women doing NSFW stuff which they might or might not be aware that they were being recorded

I mean I do remember a upskirt subreddit years ago, but I am pretty sure that one is kinda' sorta' no really most definitely illegal.

EDIT: Apparently upskirt videos being legal depends on the state. Still, thats quite a thing that was on reddit for awhile before it got scrubbed.

I support the cause on paper, but I doubt their intent is anything beyond trying to act powerful.

Trumble posted...

I support the cause on paper, but I doubt their intent is anything beyond trying to act powerful.

I do remember seeing that topic made like 3 days ago on these boards talking about how the NBA mods was discussing shit like normal while the board was shut out. From there it was showing various other's community mods doing the same thing so some of them def. give off that power trip vibe.

Against, Reddit mods are on a power trip. They're unpaid janitors who are easily replaceable.

I want at least 3 subs to reopen

What Reddit did:
- falsely promised third party developers earlier this year no changes would happen to the API
- denied the goal was to eliminate 3rd party apps, even though that's exactly what will happen
- ignored attempts at communication from devs
- falsely claimed devs weren't willing to pay
- falsely claimed devs weren't willing to talk
- falsely claimed the Apollo app was overusing API calls (dev released the source code)
- falsely accused a dev of blackmail (dev released audio of the phonecall)
- publicly talked shit about their volunteers

https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/

I'm not sure why so many people insist on framing this as a moderator power grab. That's completely missing the point of the protests and doesn't even make sense if you think about it for more than a second. What sort of power are they even grabbing by blacking out their subs or posting John Oliver?

The protest started with the 3rd party devs and most subs I'm active in had a poll or discussion on whether to join protests and if so, how.

I definitely don't support Reddit, but I think the use of a lot of these moderation bots is very bad. They often just auto delete any post that has certain words in them even if it's a legitimate comment and the actual bot responses often go unmoderated. It's gotten really bad with blatant ChatGPT style spam lately.

Absolutely siding with the mods here. As bad as a power-hungry mod can potentially be to a subreddit's users, that pales in comparison to just how badly Reddit the company is fucking over its own mods and general users with this move.

From what I've heard, they're trying to make the site (and thus the company) look more valuable than it really is in preparation for an Initial Public Offering (IPO), hence the plan to squeeze money out of mods and silencing protest against that. Once the IPO happens, the venture capitalists who currently own stock in Reddit will sell it off ASAP to new schmucks who'll be left holding the bag by the time that it turns out Reddit isn't really that valuable after all. Once the dust clears, Reddit will be left a worthless money sink of a company not completely unlike Twitter post-Musk, and Reddit's current investors will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Hornezz posted...

What Reddit did:
- falsely promised third party developers earlier this year no changes would happen to the API
- denied the goal was to eliminate 3rd party apps, even though that's exactly what will happen
- ignored attempts at communication from devs
- falsely claimed devs weren't willing to pay
- falsely claimed devs weren't willing to talk
- falsely claimed the Apollo app was overusing API calls (dev released the source code)
- falsely accused a dev of blackmail (dev released audio of the phonecall)
- publicly talked shit about their volunteers

https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/

I'm not sure why so many people insist on framing this as a moderator power grab. That's completely missing the point of the protests and doesn't even make sense if you think about it for more than a second. What sort of power are they even grabbing by blacking out their subs or posting John Oliver?

The protest started with the 3rd party devs and most subs I'm active in had a poll or discussion on whether to join protests and if so, how.

Let's pretend I take everything you said at face value and as fact. (I don't). But let's pretend I do.

Explain to me how the basic premise of these third party apps is not stealing from or lowering the profitability of Reddit.

If you give me a persuasive answer, I can change sides.

I am on the side of the mods because the CEO is a dick. That's it.

Some subreddits are so overly moderated to the point where they won't even allow simple questions.

Ninjaluver posted...

Let's pretend I take everything you said at face value and as fact. (I don't). But let's pretend I do.

I mean, you should. It's been proven.

Ninjaluver posted...

Explain to me how the basic premise of these third party apps is not stealing from or lowering the profitability of Reddit.

They could just force third party apps to allow ads. RIF lets some through.

Or - and this is a mindfuck - they could invest the money and make their official app not trash so people want to use it instead of third party apps.

Ninjaluver posted...

Let's pretend I take everything you said at face value and as fact. (I don't). But let's pretend I do.

Don't take my word for it. The link I posted included transcripts and audio recordings of phone calls and quotes from emails. The Apollo dev even open sourced the back end of his app to disprove the claims Reddit made about its API calls: https://github.com/christianselig/apollo-backend

That guy absolutely came with the receipts to all of his claims.

Explain to me how the basic premise of these third party apps is not stealing from or lowering the profitability of Reddit.

If you had read the post I linked to (you didn't) you would have seen it included quotes from Reddit reps about their stance on third party apps until recently:

"We think that developers have added to the Reddit user experience over the years, and I don't think that there's really any debating that they've been additive to the ecosystem on Reddit and we want to continue to acknowledge that."
&
"Our developer community has in many ways saved Reddit through some difficult times. I know in no small part, your work, when we did not have a functioning app. And not just you obviously, but it's been our developers that have helped us weather a lot of storms and adapt and all that."
&
"Just coming back to the sentiment inside of Reddit is that I think our development community has really been a huge part why we've survived as long as we have."

pegusus123456 posted...

I mean, you should. It's been proven.

They could just force third party apps to allow ads. RIF lets some through.

Or - and this is a mindfuck - they could invest the money and make their official app not trash so people want to use it instead of third party apps.

Again, the vast majority of us, including myself, have no problem with the official app. I don't find it to be "trash". I have no complaints. I think if you do have complaints then you're likely terminally online.

100% if they tried to force these apps to run ads that profited Reddit, we'd be in the exact same situation because those (free) apps could not afford to operate just like they "allegedly" can't afford to operate if reddit charges for for API.

It's not like Reddit is taking away access. They're simply charging for access (as other companies already do). It's the third party apps that claim they can't afford to pay this.

Hornezz posted...

Don't take my word for it. The link I posted included transcripts and audio recordings of phone calls and quotes from emails. The Apollo dev even open sourced the back end of his app to disprove the claims Reddit made about its API calls: https://github.com/christianselig/apollo-backend

That guy absolutely came with the receipts to all of his claims.

If you had read the post I linked to (you didn't) you would have seen it included quotes from Reddit reps about their stance on third party apps until recently:

"We think that developers have added to the Reddit user experience over the years, and I don't think that there's really any debating that they've been additive to the ecosystem on Reddit and we want to continue to acknowledge that."
&
"Our developer community has in many ways saved Reddit through some difficult times. I know in no small part, your work, when we did not have a functioning app. And not just you obviously, but it's been our developers that have helped us weather a lot of storms and adapt and all that."
&
"Just coming back to the sentiment inside of Reddit is that I think our development community has really been a huge part why we've survived as long as we have."

Before I listen to these, is this the same Apollo dev that definitely tried to blackmail reddit while claiming he was joking on that call? Because I listened to that call, and there is no way anybody in good faith could interpret his "joke", which he repeated 3 times, as anything other than a blackmail threat.

It was a "yea I mean it would be crazy if you guys just paid us $10 million to walk off into the sunset. We would totally quiet down for you. Haha. I'm just joking here. Unless...."

To be honest I'm not a fan of important subreddits being completely locked off from view indefinitely. If the protest doesn't succeed that's a bunch of content just gone forever.

Block people from making new posts, but don't hide away the information that's already there.

Ninjaluver posted...

Before I listen to these

Before I read the rest of your post, please try to actually inform yourself before spouting your baseless opinion.

Ninjaluver posted...

100% if they tried to force these apps to run ads that profited Reddit, we'd be in the exact same situation because those (free) apps could not afford to operate just like they "allegedly" can't afford to operate if reddit charges for for API.

It's not like Reddit is taking away access. They're simply charging for access (as other companies already do). It's the third party apps that claim they can't afford to pay this.

Again, the Apollo apps said exactly how much reddit is charging and it'd cost him twenty million a year.

Every point you're making is blatantly false, so you're either taking a hard stance on something know nothing about or you're just lying. Either way, it's not worth engaging with you.

Hornezz posted...

Before I read the rest of your post, please try to actually inform yourself before spouting your baseless opinion.

So is it the same guy or not?

pegusus123456 posted...

Again, the Apollo apps said exactly how much reddit is charging and it'd cost him twenty million a year.

Every point you're making is blatantly false, so you're either taking a hard stance on something know nothing about or you're just lying. Either way, it's not worth engaging with you.

I know about the $20 million operating cost. Which is why the exec from Apollo "joked" (i.e. threatened blackmail) that if Reddit would just pay him half that cost, $10 million, Apollo would keep quiet and walk off into the sunset for this whole thing.

Ninjaluver posted...

So is it the same guy or not?

It is. And if you had actually listened to that call like you claimed, you would have heard the reddit rep apologize for his misinterpretation:

Reddit: I'm going to very straightforward to you too, it sounds like a threat. And I'm just like "Oh interesting". Because one of the things we're trying to do is say "You have been using our API free of cost for many, many years and we have absolutely sanctioned - you have not broken any rules." And now we're changing our perspective for what we're telling you - and I know you disagree with it. That hey, we want to operate on a thing that is financially, you know, footing. And so hopefully you mean something completely different from what I said when you say like "go quietly", I just want to make sure.

Me: How did you take that, sorry? Could you elaborate?

Reddit: Oh, like, because you were like, "Hey, if you want this to go away".

Me: I said "If you want Apollo to go quiet". Like in terms of- I would say it's quite loud in terms of its API usage.

Reddit: Oh, go quiet as in that. Okay, got it. Got it. Sorry.

Me: Like it's a very-

Reddit: Yeah, that's a complete misinterpretation on my end.

Me: Yeah. No, no, it's all good.

Reddit: I apologize. I apologize immediately.

But it's safe to assume you're not going to read this quote either

Hornezz posted...

It is. And if you had actually listened to that call like you claimed, you would have heard the reddit rep apologize for his misinterpretation:

But it's safe to assume you're not going to read this quote either

Hahaha. I actually just laughed out loud. There is no way you are actually taking the Reddit execs apology at face value and don't see that he was obviously trying to placate the Apollo exec while also making it clear that he knew he was being threatened. Which is why he made him say it 3 times. Just to make it clear for the record. Have you never heard these types of corporate negotiations before?

Yes, I heard the whole call when it was released, including the part you just quoted. It's one of the most obvious cases of a blackmail attempt I've ever heard. It's painfully awkward to hear the guy try to pass it off as a joke.

If it was actually a joke, he wouldn't have repeated it in detail 2 more times. He would've just said "Forget it, it was a dumb joke I was making. Doesn't matter". But the reality is he wanted to make sure the terms were heard and clear.

This is literally as obvious as the ol' "Gee. That's a nice car you got parked there in the third row. That 2018 Honda civic. Good car. Would be ashamed if something were to happen to one of the loose bolts while you were driving down the interstate tonight. Of course I'm mostly joking when I say that. Haha..."

Ninjaluver posted...

I know about the $20 million operating cost. Which is why the exec from Apollo "joked" (i.e. threatened blackmail) that if Reddit would just pay him half that cost, $10 million, Apollo would keep quiet and walk off into the sunset for this whole thing.

How on earth is that blackmail?

I honestly don't see what you get out of lying about this. What's in it for you?

Tell me at least you're getting paid by reddit and aren't just voluntarily running PR for them.

Ninjaluver posted...

Against.

99% of us normal reddit users do not give a fuck about this API policy change. The subreddits being closed down by the mods negatively affects us far, far more than any API change ever could.

Basically that.

JE19426 posted...

How on earth is that blackmail?

"Hey, we know our user base is giving you guys hell, and the public sentiment online is siding with us and also giving you hell.

So, say our operating costs are 20m. Say you give us 6 months of that, 10m, maybe we all walk away into the sunset and get everyone to quiet down for you"

Is another way of saying

"You pay us $10m, and we will quiet the mob down and make this easier for you. Don't pay us off, and we will feed you to the dogs"