Current Events > Caught my husband on the phone with another woman last night

(+) Yeah! (+)

And the internet proves itself time after time. Its a lot easier for you guys to just say divorce him! You should have divorced him already! Its not an easy task. You basically cease your current lifestyle, leave the person you love, and married. Then, realize your baby is now going to be gone half the time.

theres so many factors that play into this

MrResetti posted...

It sucks having a loved one disappoint you. It takes a clear head to make the right decision. Y'all are all outsiders pushing some cut and dry answer in a situation you are fortunate enough to not truly understand.

MrResetti posted...

Cheating? No.

So has nothing to do with their situation?
Why even bring it up? Would you have worked past your partner cheating on you? And do you honestly think that's "healthy"?

MrResetti posted...

I guess I'll have to elaborate further and say that I'm not saying what should happen one way or the other, but replying with "girl you better leave his ass" isn't really the appropriate answer either.

But hey, what do I know being a father with a significant other that has presented problems. Cheating? No. But other issues exist and you have to decide what value is there and worth fighting for. And if she weighs shit out and decides it isn't worth fighting for anymore that's fine. But God damn you can't just run straight to "here's my.attorney, I expect alimony. See you in court.". It's someone you love. It affects people you love. It's hard on everyone. The right choice is never the quick trigger pull.

It sucks having a loved one disappoint you. It takes a clear head to make the right decision. Y'all are all outsiders pushing some cut and dry answer in a situation you are fortunate enough to not truly understand.

But based on her posting history, she has been unhappy with him for a long time. There have been discussions, there has been second chances, etc.

And I am unfortunate enough to actually truly understand. I dragged out my marriage too long and am much happier now. As is my ex wife.

Man this is so sad to read. I don't know how any man could do this, especially with kids.

I'm not involved or wise enough to have a proper answer. None of us here do.

But I have seen the odd post Cleo has made about being a Mom. I get the impression she's been doing it tough and I know how full on and hard it can be being a parent. Especially being a Mom where typically more responsibility is placed on you which very much seemed to be the case here.

Regardless of the details she deserves better than this. It sucks.

Noname12 posted...

And the internet proves itself time after time. Its a lot easier for you guys to just say divorce him! You should she divorced him already! Its not an easy task. You basically cease your current lifestyle, leave the person you love, and married. Then, realize your baby is now going to be gone half the time.

theres so many factors that play into this

Every time a potential client has said something along these lines to me, I sigh.

I then talk to them 6 months, 1 year, 2 years (etc.) later and now the situation is worse. Now the stakes are higher. Now they've spent two more years contributing to a retirement account of which 50% is going to go to the spouse they hate while that spouse has contributed little to nothing. Now their spouse has racked up debt. Now their spouse has a new partner that is subsidizing their new lifestyle. Now the kids are older and more aware.

A situation like TC's is a lost cause. It was lost in 2017. Every year that passes is just more damage to TC before the inevitable separation.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I'm not involved or wise enough to have a proper answer. None of us here do.

TC wanted a second opinion. She can hear "I don't have an answer" from anywhere.
I don't really have any qualms about making the incredibly brave decision of telling someone they should divorce a cheating partner.

Vayu_The_End posted...

So has nothing to do with their situation?
Why even bring it up? Would you have worked past your partner cheating on you? And do you honestly think that's "healthy"?

Love and children are the complicating factors
If there's no love left then it's easy, but that should've been remedied earlier than now. I don't know her posting history, I clearly haven't been posting or reading those topics.

MrResetti posted...

Love and children are the complicating factors
If there's no love left then it's easy, but that should've been remedied earlier than now. I don't know her posting history, I clearly haven't been posting or reading those topics.

As a children of quite a few of those shitty relationships.
No. It's not. Cut them off. The lingering doubts and resentment never fully go away. It's always fuel to be used in the next big fight. Being a child under those crappy relationships caused me a lot of pain, and has killed my interest in finding a partner.

Vayu_The_End posted...

TC wanted a second opinion. She can hear "I don't have an answer" from anywhere.
I don't really have any qualms about making the incredibly brave decision of telling someone they should divorce a cheating partner.

I'm not saying that it isn't the answer. But even if it is that's not going to be the end of the problems. Whether they're together or not they have a kid. There's a lot of shit to figure out.

I know a couple of people going through rough break ups with kids. It's the end of a major problem and the beginning of many new ones. Figuring out custody arrangements and explaining to a toddler that Daddy isn't going to be around as much anymore is just heartbreaking shit to deal with.

Overall posts on here shouldn't be influencing her opinion either way. She'll figure it out with the people who matter a lot more. Like I said she deserves better than this.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I'm not saying that it isn't the answer. But even if it is that's not going to be the end of the problems. Whether they're together or not they have a kid. There's a lot of shit to figure out.

I know a couple of people going through rough break ups with kids. It's the end of a major problem and the beginning of many new ones. Figuring out custody arrangements and explaining to a toddler that Daddy isn't going to be around as much anymore is just heartbreaking shit to deal with.

Overall posts on here shouldn't be influencing her opinion either way. She'll figure it out with the people who matter a lot more. Like I said she deserves better than this.

TC is a grown ass woman. She'll come to her own conclusions regardless of what any of us say.
But the idea that people shouldn't influence opinions from inquiries based on someone's real life isn't consistent. People are influenced by second opinions all the time. People have various reasons as to why they open up on the internet about stuff like this instead of friends and family.

I have enough faith in grown adults to not exclusively be taking cues from what strangers tell you. I honestly think the insistence that you can't receive anonymous advice without coming to a conclusion you didn't want to is belittling the capabilities of the person in question.

Vayu_The_End posted...

As a children of quite a few of those shitty relationships.
No. It's not. Cut them off. The lingering doubts and resentment never fully go away. It's always fuel to be used in the next big fight. Being a child under those crappy relationships caused me a lot of pain, and has killed my interest in finding a partner.

You're lumping everything into the frame you know without considering the possibility that continued couples therapy could have a positive outcome

I'm not trying to defend anyone. I'm just saying that your experience isn't all encompassing. I empathize with you. That wasn't fair. But it's not up to some random people on the internet to decide what's the right call. It's up to TC to weigh out the options and decide what makes the most sense.

Vayu_The_End posted...

TC is a grown ass woman. She'll come to her own conclusions regardless of what any of us say.
But the idea that people shouldn't influence opinions from inquiries based on someone's real life isn't consistent. People are influenced by second opinions all the time. People have various reasons as to why they open up on the internet about stuff like this instead of friends and family.

I have enough faith in grown adults to not exclusively be taking cues from what strangers tell you. I honestly think the insistence that you can't receive anonymous advice without coming to a conclusion you didn't want to is belittling the capabilities of the person in question.

You're arguing against things I have never said or implied. You're simplifying what I meant.

MrResetti posted...

You're lumping everything into the frame you know without considering the possibility that continued couples therapy could have a positive outcome

Therapy being floated exclusively out of fear of a partner leaving you after you got caught doing the bad thing is unlikely to lead to good outcomes.

Therapy isn't a cure all dude. I am WELL aware of that. It always gets floated after being caught doing the bad thing, it happens, you see short term improvements, then when the relationship seems "safe" they revert back to their old habits and the cycle repeats. For therapy to be effective, the people in question have to WANT to get better. Being caught cheating, then immediately floating therapy is not a desire to get better, it's a desire to keep your partner from leaving you.

Punished_Blinx posted...

You're arguing against things I have never said or implied. You're simplifying what I meant.

Then the last part of your post is completely irrelevant.
As for the rest of it, you seem to be downplaying the effects of staying in a toxic relationship has on the kids, opting instead to focus exclusively on the short-term effects of a divorce.

Vayu_The_End posted...

Therapy being floated exclusively out of fear of a partner leaving you after you got caught doing the bad thing is unlikely to lead to good outcomes.

Therapy isn't a cure all dude. I am WELL aware of that. It always gets floated after being caught doing the bad thing, it happens, you see short term improvements, then when the relationship seems "safe" they revert back to their old habits and the cycle repeats. For therapy to be effective, the people in question have to WANT to get better. Being caught cheating, then immediately floating therapy is not a desire to get better, it's a desire to keep your partner from leaving you.

You're always right, got it.

In that case I change my original post to

To CE!

Therapy is not for couples with broken trust. It is for couples who are content but unsatisfied.

Vayu_The_End posted...

Then the last part of your post is completely irrelevant.
As for the rest of it, you seem to be downplaying the effects of staying in a toxic relationship has on the kids, opting instead to focus exclusively on the short-term effects of a divorce.

I'm not downplaying anything of the sort.

Advice of "divorce his ass and move on" is about as shallow as telling someone with no money to get a better paying job. There's a lot more to it than that even if that is the answer. That's the real advice she needs and none of us here are able to provide it.

Not sure why you're taking it personally. You're not saying anything deep or mind-blowing.

MrResetti posted...

You're always right, got it.

In that case I change my original post to

To CE!

What is wrong with you? I'm just saying my piece, it's not my fault I've seen this song and dance more than you. And I certainly didn't make you think that a partner floating therapy in response to being caught cheating was out of a genuine desire to get better, rather than a last ditch effort to string a partner along.

I just hate people like you speaking for kids, as if kids are unaffected by the toxic relationships of their parents. As one of those kids, I simply said my peace. If you're so lacking a response a dismissive acquiescence is the best you can muster, blame that on yourself.

My wife would drop me in a moment if I pulled that shit just as I would her. Like, you do you, you know your life better than I do but I don't see how you can build a marriage on a bed of deceit and disloyalty.

MrResetti posted...

You're always right, got it.

In that case I change my original post to

To CE!

Just stop. I hate the arrogance of "I made my marriage work through hard work and you should too! Think of the children!". It doesn't always work and they have tried for years. As I tried for years. And as stated before, my kids are getting a much better role model seeing me with my fiance than they ever would have with me and my ex wife. I am thinking of the children. Loveless marriage is soooo much worse than divorce, as long as the parents don't put the kids in the middle.

I am happy you have made your marroage work
But, you know, I don't think it should be THAT hard. People who make out marriage to be a struggle have shitty marriages.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Advice of "divorce his ass and move on" is about as shallow as telling someone with no money to get a better paying job.

You seem to be betraying some biases here, bro. I am fairly confident that it would be universal condemnation of the partner if you swapped the genders. Because a lot of people have internalized the normalization of guys cheating as some "solvable" problem", while gals cheating is treated much differently. The onus is on the woman to fix the reason why their partner cheated on them, but no such luck if a wife cheats on a husband.

I'm not even saying this is intentional on your part, it's just shitty that people have internalized this.
Don't cheat on your partners multiple times. Don't only talk about wanting therapy after getting caught. Don't stay in a relationship like that, it won't turn out good for the kids long term even if that is your fear. This is basic bitch advice most people would give you.

My advice is unchanged regardless of the gender that cheated. Maybe you'd be unchanged too, but given how incel this board leans I have doubts that every single one of you would be consistent here if the genders were reversed.

Vayu_The_End posted...

You seem to be betraying some biases here, bro. I am fairly confident that it would be universal condemnation of the partner if you swapped the genders. Because a lot of people have internalized the normalization of guys cheating as some "solvable" problem", while gals cheating is treated much differently. The onus is on the woman to fix the reason why their partner cheated on them, but no such luck if a wife cheats on a husband.

I'm not even saying this is intentional on your part, it's just shitty that people have internalized this.
Don't cheat on your partners multiple times. Don't only talk about wanting therapy after getting caught. Don't stay in a relationship like that, it won't turn out good for the kids long term even if that is your fear. This is basic bitch advice most people would give you.

My advice is unchanged regardless of the gender that cheated. Maybe you'd be unchanged too, but given how incel this board leans I have doubts that every single one of you would be consistent here if the genders were reversed.

Nothing about what I have said in this topic would change if the genders were reversed. I haven't said or implied that there is any solvable problem.

Cleo,
Youve been incredibly candid over the years talking about hardships with work, parenthood, family, marriage and more. That's super appreciated by a bunch of us that maybe aren't as comfortable sharing as much but have similar feelings from time to time.

I dont really have any advice, but just wanted to say that I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. You're pretty awesome and I wish things like this went smoother for you. No matter what choices you make or are made for you, I hope things get better in the end.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Nothing about what I have said in this topic would change if the genders were reversed. I haven't said or implied that there is any solvable problem.

Fine, then I don't see the problem with telling someone who has caught their partner engaging in, at best, emotional cheating twice (Secretly visiting Strip clubs? Rapid deleting corresponse to someone you're "only" confiding work related things in? Suuuure") that they probably shouldn't stay in that relationship.

I never said I have a problem.

You seem to have a problem with me saying "I'm not involved or wise enough to have a proper answer. None of us here do." and have been ranting and raving at me ever since.

Neither "stay with him" or "dump him" are proper answers. Giving a post and moving on (or arguing on a message board) is not the same as dealing with this every single day.

At the rate this thread is going, it'll probably eventually hit 500

Punished_Blinx posted...

You seem to have a problem with me saying "I'm not involved or wise enough to have a proper answer. None of us here do." and have been ranting and raving at me ever since.

You just said "leave a habitual cheating partner" is "shallow advice".
If you want to backpedal, go for it. Pretending that "leave a cheating partner" vs "stay with a cheating partner" is equally shallow advice is fairly silly.

Vayu_The_End posted...

You just said "leave a habitual cheating partner" is "shallow advice".
If you want to backpedal, go for it.

5 words for a potential divorce with a two year old child in the mix is shallow advice yes.

Shallow doesn't mean wrong. It means it lacks depth.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

It's trolls trolling trolls at this point. Don't stoke the flames and just let them sing each other to sleep.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


You don't think these aren't extenuating circumstances though? TC knows of two times their partner has cheated on them. Concealed the extent of how far it went in the most recently known case, only floated therapy in response to getting caught out of fear of the relationship ending.

This seems rather clear cut. This isn't "You guys had an argument over who takes the kids to school? Dump them!" This is "Your partner has repeatedly broken your trust, concealed the extent to which they have done so, and only expressed interest in therapy after being caught".

Punished_Blinx posted...

5 words for a potential divorce with a two year old child in the mix is shallow advice yes.

Shallow doesn't mean wrong. It means it lacks depth.

Staying in a relationship so lacking in trust that, best care scenario on the husbands part, you'd emotionally cheat on your partner twice, are unwilling to even talk about work related stresses with them, and are equally unwilling to be transparent to the extent you broke their trust is not going to help the kids. It damn sure didn't help me.

And I've seen what it's done to others. I've seen people replicate their shitty parents relationship because that was their model for how a relationship works. Acting like there's uniquely downsides with divorce that somehow don't exist by staying in a toxic relationship is ridiculous. I'd have certainly rather my parent break it off much sooner instead of circling their wagon in a relationship that died a decade ago. I would be much less emotionally and mentally fucked up if they did, and they wound up divorcing them anyway. So what the fuck was even the point?

MrResetti posted...

It's trolls trolling trolls at this point. Don't stoke the flames and just let them sing each other to sleep.

Sure, if your definition of troll is "person I don't like".

Vayu_The_End posted...

Acting like there's uniquely downsides with divorce that somehow don't exist by staying in a toxic relationship is ridiculous

I'm not acting like this.

Are you even reading what I'm writing here?

That really sucks. The reason he deleted it even when it would be obvious to you that he deleted it is because the fallout of having deleted it would be lesser than the fallout of you having seen it. I dont really have any advice for you, but hes definitely no good

Punished_Blinx posted...

I'm not acting like this.

Are you even reading what I'm writing here?

I am, there's zero reason to bring up children in this instance outside of minimizing the negative impacts of them seeing their parents engage in a toxic relationship filled with mistrust, dissatisfaction, and lying.

Because whether a divorce would happen or not, the child will still be negatively effected in some way. A toxic relationship will simply negatively effect them more. If TC feels it's salvagable, they better make sure it's actually salvaged.

The reason to 'bring up the child' is to relate to how complicated and hard things are for Cleo to deal with and it's not fair that she's going through this due to the actions of her husband.

I have kids of my own. I feel for her. What she's going through is shit. Raising a kid is hard enough in a stable marriage. There's a lot she needs to figure out that goes beyond the relationship and there was already a lot in her shoulders.

That's all. I'm not here to give her an answer. If you feel like you are in that position you can believe it all you like.

Punished_Blinx posted...

The reason to 'bring up the child' is to relate to how complicated and hard things are for Cleo to deal with and it's not fair that she's going through this due to the actions of her husband.

I have kids of my own. I feel for her. What she's going through is shit. Raising a kid is hard enough in a stable marriage. There's a lot she needs to figure out that goes beyond the relationship and there was already a lot in her shoulders.

That's all. I'm not here to give her an answer. If you feel like you are in that position you can believe it all you like.

Ugh, I need to step away from this.
Too much of an emotional stake in situations like these.

I stand by the advice I've given. I apologize to you in how I've come across here.

The only thing I want TC to consider is:

What happens if the child is the next one to catch daddy messing around? If that is a possibility, does staying together make much more of a positive impact than that has as a negative impact on the child's life? Hypothetically stable childhood vs hypothetically letting the child find out their dad has fooled around and the mom puts up with it?

And I say hypothetically bc I have no idea what is more true to your scenario. Just food for thought TC. Your child deserves stability, but they also deserve a mom that stands up for herself and teaches them to do the same. Nobody here has walked a mile in your shoes, but we wish you the best outcomes going forward.

What a piece of crap your husband is being like. He made things even more obvious by deleting stuff before handing the phone to you

What would be his reaction if you try to leave? Would he stop you?

I hope Cleo stays safe. I have seen lots of videos on the That Chapter Youtube page that start out like this.

MrResetti posted...

It sucks having a loved one disappoint you. It takes a clear head to make the right decision. Y'all are all outsiders pushing some cut and dry answer in a situation you are fortunate enough to not truly understand.

I just don't get this line of reasoning. It's stating the obvious that we're outsiders looking in, but that doesn't mean some of us haven't witnessed or experienced similar situations. No one is claiming it's easy to just end a marriage, especially with kids involved, but acting like the mere suggestion of a divorce comes from a place of "being fortunate enough to not truly understand" sounds arrogant as fuck.

I've done this, and everything he said to you is exactly how I felt.

Does he open up to you, emotionally, romantically and sexually? He may experience something similar like I do -- having trouble keeping that up with the people I am very close to, almost like (or maybe is) selective mutism. It's much easier sharing stuff like this with people who are borderline strangers that you've not met and won't meet.

Of course, it rides a very, very fine line. I never hooked up with and never would have hooked up with them, but I've been broken up with because of it and I'm not resentful about it. It's ultimately our own fault on both fronts -- not being able to talk about it and be open, and flirting with the other. We want to talk and be open, but we can't. It can be a symptom of both GAD and ASD, so it's worth looking into. May also be worth looking into MDMA or psilocybin therapy, if you can afford it.

All of the above I would never admit to a family member or friend.

bsp77 posted...

I do get what you are saying. I know to not 100% trust someone's posts. I generally like Cleo, and she helped me a couple years back when I was first learning to cook vegetarian dishes for my fiance after we first started dating.

I am sure she is not a saint, but no one is, and there is something definitely wrong with their marriage, and it seems to stem more from him. I know from my own divorce experience that it gets better. And it gets better for the kids involved too.

I've seen ordinary gimmicks you'd never think one would bother lying about for years turn out to be entire fabrication here. So I'm well below 100% trust lol. But glad they were able to help you with that, so your stance is completely understandable.

There's not being a saint and there's having a work husband and getting hot dude's numbers at bars by her own narration. She confides here to dudes and likely elsewhere about him in ways he could've been doing on the phone about her. Both would want to delete some of those texts/posts before seen. Trust would be broken from both sides regardless of who's worse.

So I'd agree with where you specifically are coming from on divorce, but this husk of a site is not the healthiest place to be bouncing these ideas.

My entire family is teeming with severe mental illness, unhappiness, and behavioral problems. I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Your husband doesn't care about you, your relationship, or your daughter; not really, anyway. When you really love someone, that changes you, your values, and your actions. Do you think he was struggling with the thought of what he was doing to his wife, his daughter, his family while being unfaithful? Because if he was struggling, don't you think he would have either stopped or spoken up about needing to get help long before you found him. When you finally did catch him, he didn't look remorseful or broken, he tried to hide shit and pretend.

If you think I'm wrong, get someone to watch your kid, sit down with him, and demand he come clean about everything he has been doing, including what you saw him deleting before you can move forward in your relationship. I'm betting he won't do it. Instead you'll get some of the following thrown at you:

• I don't know why I do these things.
• Be patient with me!
• I can't control what I do.
• This is how I am and you need to accept it.
• I haven't done anything wrong!
• I didn't do X, you did X! <-- my Dad's absolute favorite.

Therapy only has a chance of working on the willing. He doesn't sound too willing to me. The separate bedroom thing is 100% a weird emotional or sexual thing that he disguises using the excuse of his sleeping disorder, and that he takes advantage of to cheat and go behind your back. You think you're hurting your daughter by getting a divorce, but what kind of dad and role model is a man like this going to be to her? I mean, at this point, you don't even know for sure the extent of what he has been hiding. Can you be the best mom and person you can be while your soul slowly gets sucked out by having a shady life partner you can't trust?

There is also the environmental factor. This is something that bothers a lot of people in general, but growing up in a toxic home environment can severely damage you as a person. That damage varies from person to person. Some people get over it, and some kinda don't. Even if you really think your daughter needs her mom and dad to stay together, find out 100% what kinds of problems your husband is really having before making your decision.

Previous people make a good point about how we are getting one sided information, but whats the point of arguing that if thats all we can get?

If you were caught right now on this topic by your husband and he wanted to see your phone, would you be okay just handing him your phone?

Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...

At the rate this thread is going, it'll probably eventually hit 500

Pretty much. Most of it is people making it about themselves instead of TC having a conversation with people.

FLAMING_EVIL_HOMER posted...

Previous people make a good point about how we are getting one sided information, but whats the point of arguing that if thats all we can get?

If you were caught right now on this topic by your husband and he wanted to see your phone, would you be okay just handing him your phone?

Handing your spouse a 7,000 page transcript detailing their every minor and major infraction + work/bar escapades they didn't know about over the last 6 years from a dead 90s gaming site populated by maybe 10 dudes with 100s of alts. Might be easier to just delete than explain that too.