Board 8 > Random question about the MCU

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Kind of out of the blue, but I honestly can't remember; has the MCU Hulk ever won a 1v1 fight? I'm not talking about random mooks or monsters, but like going up against a named character in a serious bout.

I was talking to someone about the possibility of a World War Hulk adaptation, and with it came the realization that MCU's Hulk track record is abysmal. It feels like he loses every single showdown he comes across. The only example that came to mind where he came out on top was him smashing Loki in The Avengers and even then that wasn't really a "fight" it was just a gag.

I mean, Abomination

You know... fair. I forgot that movie even existed.

But also it's the only one I haven't seen, so it might have not been good to have made the assumption.

Also, it did happen offscreen, but in Ragnorak he beat Doug. Poor Doug :(

Hulk is one of the characters most nerfed from the comics because they need to keep him from being drastically overpowered compared to the people around him. He usually loses for narrative reasons (like being knocked out by a Hulkbuster punch in Age of Ultron because the writers had no other way to stop his rampage without him being unusable for the rest of the movie)

There's the implication that before meeting Thor in Ragnarok, he was undefeated in gladiatorial combat, but of course that's all off-screen so it doesn't really count

Hulk is basically the Worf of the MCU.

Yeah Hulk is pretty nerfed. From what I remember in the comics, if Thanos can avoid him he will. Not because he's scared, but because he is too much damn trouble if he gets strong enough.

Compared to this one that got wrecked easily by Thanos and has Thor and Marvel both able to beat him in a fight.

Loki in Avengers

This is the direct result of Mark Ruffalo portraying Hulk

I think writers avoid having Hulk win climactic fights because he's a mindless monster. It's hard to root for a character who acts purely on instinct and is only winning thanks to his muscles.

People like Bruce Banner because he's scared of the Hulk coming out - that's what makes the character likeable. It's fun watching him control his inner monster, and only having it come out when it's absolutely necessary, at which point he easily wins most fights. Otherwise, the only use for the Hulk in a dedicated fight is when you need to establish a villain as a threat.

Big_Bob posted...

I think writers avoid having Hulk win climactic fights because he's a mindless monster. It's hard to root for a character who acts purely on instinct and is only winning thanks to his muscles.

People like Bruce Banner because he's scared of the Hulk coming out - that's what makes the character likeable. It's fun watching him control his inner monster, and only having it come out when it's absolutely necessary, at which point he easily wins most fights. Otherwise, the only use for the Hulk in a dedicated fight is when you need to establish a villain as a threat.

Makes me miss the development he had in the comics, where he is still a dedicated hero even hulked out. Doesn't kill innocent people and has a full personality beyond just rage.

I wish they had given Ultron a better Prime body that was actually strong and he could beat down all the other Avengers with. Then have Hulk tear it apart similar to the scene that actually happened, but was kinda meaningless because Ultron Prime was pretty weak. Stealing his intended body and making the Vision out of it was a fine plot device but stealing Ultron's ability to be physically imposing in the climax was the biggest mistake of the movie imo.

CoolCly posted...

I wish they had given Ultron a better Prime body that was actually strong and he could beat down all the other Avengers with. Then have Hulk tear it apart similar to the scene that actually happened, but was kinda meaningless because Ultron Prime was pretty weak. Stealing his intended body and making the Vision out of it was a fine plot device but stealing Ultron's ability to be physically imposing in the climax was the biggest mistake of the movie imo.

I thought the biggest problem is the descent into madness. It didn't really work and took away a lot of the threat from him.

If it were the comicsCaptain Marvel, Thor, and Hulk enter a battling coliseum. All have their traditional powers. Who wins?

Squirrel Girl, off-panel

junk_funk posted...

If it were the comicsCaptain Marvel, Thor, and Hulk enter a battling coliseum. All have their traditional powers. Who wins?

Hulk pretty much without question.

Isn't Hulk capable of like, multiversal feats

Are those two capable of that

What part of Hulk is strongest one there is dont you understand?

Crescent-Moon posted...

Isn't Hulk capable of like, multiversal feats

Are those two capable of that

I know CM and Thor are about the same and Thor outright admits in Fear Itself he could never beat Hulk.

Though he follows that up by more or less winning the fight by knocking possessed Hulk into the stratosphere

One of the worst things about Hulk in the MCU is that he never comes across as nightmarishly terrifying as he did in The Incredible Hulk movie. TIH wasn't the best, but it had great ideas about how to present the character, and he absolutely peaked in that movie as a monster.

Mark Ruffalo Bruce is also kind of boring to me, especially when he has no conflict about The Hulk. And his Hulk doesn't look even half as intimidating, even if he's supposed to look like Ruffalo. It just feels toothless when he doesn't ever have to fear the beast unless he's arbitrarily mind controlled and it's completely out of his control anyway.

I dunno. MCU Hulk is just comedy vehicle. The absolute shits of it being Hulk was TOO AFRAID to come out and fight even generic Thanos enemies after getting beaten up once. What is that? Why is Hulk ever afraid? Why is Hulk not just a rampaging menace, bitter and angry after losing a fight? Why are we getting a movie where we have to have Ruffalo trying to convince him to come out? Any Hulk storylines are usually the worst part of any movie Hulk is in usually and they just don't understand what to do with the character.

Hulk losing to Hulkbuster was embarrassing

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

One of the worst things about Hulk in the MCU is that he never comes across as nightmarishly terrifying as he did in The Incredible Hulk movie. TIH wasn't the best, but it had great ideas about how to present the character, and he absolutely peaked in that movie as a monster.

Mark Ruffalo Bruce is also kind of boring to me, especially when he has no conflict about The Hulk. And his Hulk doesn't look even half as intimidating, even if he's supposed to look like Ruffalo. It just feels toothless when he doesn't ever have to fear the beast unless he's arbitrarily mind controlled and it's completely out of his control anyway.

I dunno. MCU Hulk is just comedy vehicle. The absolute shits of it being Hulk was TOO AFRAID to come out and fight even generic Thanos enemies after getting beaten up once. What is that? Why is Hulk ever afraid? Why is Hulk not just a rampaging menace, bitter and angry after losing a fight? Why are we getting a movie where we have to have Ruffalo trying to convince him to come out? Any Hulk storylines are usually the worst part of any movie Hulk is in usually and they just don't understand what to do with the character.

Didn't someone involved with the movie come out at some point and debunk that, and say that it was hulk trying to teach banner a lesson not to rely on him all the time or something?

Emeraldegg posted...

Didn't someone involved with the movie come out at some point and debunk that, and say that it was hulk trying to teach banner a lesson not to rely on him all the time or something?

I haven't seen the movie in a while but didn't they outright say he was afraid?

And also if that was the lesson, why now? Why this timing?

Also why is THE HULK trying to teach Banner lessons?

This was an interesting journey we went on with Banner, trying to decide how we move him forward in the Marvel Universe. What makes him unique as a character is that there is a host body that is being fought over by two distinct personalities who hate each other. And both want control of the host body. So we thought an interesting direction to take him in is what if Banner, who typically uses the Hulk to solve crisis situations, what if the Hulk were no longer interested in solving those problems for Banner? So that the relationship is becoming increasingly dysfunctional. That's what's going on here.
People have speculated whether there was some fear on the Hulk's part about having to face Thanos again. But I think ultimately what it is, is that he's tired of playing hero to Bruce Banner.

Found what I was thinking of, this is the director of infinity war

Jakyl25 posted...

What part of Hulk is strongest one there is dont you understand?

The problem with that is that it only really applies to certain versions of the Hulk (like in the comics, grey Hulk and Professor Hulk were generally weaker than some of the more mindless versions).

And it's only really true when he's really pissed. "The angrier Hulk gets the stronger Hulk gets" applies, so he has to get really, really, really pissed off in order to get really, really strong. So if his heart's not really in a fight, or you can try and calm him down in some way, you can weaken him.

And it's completely negated if you have powers/abilities/tech that allows you to put him in a position where all his strength is useless. It doesn't matter how strong you are if you're in space where you have nothing to push against.



Emeraldegg posted...

This was an interesting journey we went on with Banner, trying to decide how we move him forward in the Marvel Universe. What makes him unique as a character is that there is a host body that is being fought over by two distinct personalities who hate each other. And both want control of the host body. So we thought an interesting direction to take him in is what if Banner, who typically uses the Hulk to solve crisis situations, what if the Hulk were no longer interested in solving those problems for Banner? So that the relationship is becoming increasingly dysfunctional. That's what's going on here.
People have speculated whether there was some fear on the Hulk's part about having to face Thanos again. But I think ultimately what it is, is that he's tired of playing hero to Bruce Banner.

Found what I was thinking of, this is the director of infinity war

The funny part is, it's the worst possible explanation for what's happening in that movie.

While people don't like the idea of the Hulk being afraid, it does kind of make sense for the MCU version of the character. And even syncs up to some stuff in the comics where sadness can affect how the Hulk manifests.

But what people tend to forget is that the key to the Hulk is that Banner needs to be the one who is mad to bring him out. So if Banner is terrified of Thanos (which would be fully justified), his fear could potentially prevent the Hulk from really manifesting. On top of which, the last time Banner turned into the Hulk he lost years of his life - the deep-seated subconscious fear that it might happen again (or that he might not come back at all next time) could be forming a psychological block that is preventing the Hulk from manifesting.

Even beyond which, if we assume the Hulk is 100% the one "refusing to come out" (which his reaction sort of implies in the film), there are other reasons for that as well. For starters he's just spent years on a planet where he was truly happy, fighting and being pampered - he's finally getting respect and adulation rather than the fear and disgust he usually faces on Earth. Having all that taken away by Thor and "puny Banner" could leave him so bitter and annoyed that he's basically become like a petulant child throwing a tantrum.

Or even beyond psychological issues, Hulk has just spent years never turning back into Banner. Because they've become something of a symbiotic pair, it feels like they need to have some sort of balance between the two. By not turning back into Banner, Hulk could have easily used up most of his "fuel", or otherwise wore out the biological component that allows the transformation. So he's not able to transform because he's too "tired", for want of a better term (this was honestly my interpretation of things the first time I watched the movie).

The Hulk doesn't win 1v1 fights because there is no narrative purpose to having the Hulk win 1v1 fights. All we can really get out of that is 'yay, Hulk punched the bad guy', and while the Hulk should do that on occasion all of the movies in question are team-up movies. Like yeah of course the Hulk doesn't win a 1v1 fight, these movies aren't supposed to be a series of 1v1 fights, this isn't an anime tournament arc. Big strong man just winning a straight fight isn't something a movie has time to cover.

Like what, is he supposed to beat Thanos? Then there'd be no fuckin' movie. The Hulk is the odds that the other person has to overcome to prove themselves.

Emeraldegg posted...

This was an interesting journey we went on with Banner, trying to decide how we move him forward in the Marvel Universe. What makes him unique as a character is that there is a host body that is being fought over by two distinct personalities who hate each other. And both want control of the host body. So we thought an interesting direction to take him in is what if Banner, who typically uses the Hulk to solve crisis situations, what if the Hulk were no longer interested in solving those problems for Banner? So that the relationship is becoming increasingly dysfunctional. That's what's going on here.
People have speculated whether there was some fear on the Hulk's part about having to face Thanos again. But I think ultimately what it is, is that he's tired of playing hero to Bruce Banner.

Found what I was thinking of, this is the director of infinity war

I dunno if one of the Russos wrote that, but I despise it. It makes me ick. It makes me ick hard. It makes me ick hard because Bruce does not think of the Hulk as a hero, he thinks of the Hulk as a monster (as he rightly should). If you want to say he calls on the Hulk in moments of desperation, sure. But it's not because the Hulk is any sort of hero, at all. A pacifist could pick up a gun and shoot another human being to save themselves in desperation. That doesn't make them a gun lover. Also, this radically undermines the shift to "Smart Hulk" we see in Endgame. This takes two fundamentally opposed forces realizing how they intrinsically benefit each other and turns it into something more akin to a lovers spat that becomes mended. Ick.

Paratroopa1 posted...

The Hulk doesn't win 1v1 fights because there is no narrative purpose to having the Hulk win 1v1 fights. All we can really get out of that is 'yay, Hulk punched the bad guy', and while the Hulk should do that on occasion all of the movies in question are team-up movies. Like yeah of course the Hulk doesn't win a 1v1 fight, these movies aren't supposed to be a series of 1v1 fights, this isn't an anime tournament arc. Big strong man just winning a straight fight isn't something a movie has time to cover.

Like what, is he supposed to beat Thanos? Then there'd be no fuckin' movie. The Hulk is the odds that the other person has to overcome to prove themselves.

Careful. Some people may find the things you have said to be too rational. :p

The Russos have done a great job post Endgame totally destroying any sort of artistic credibility they had so that quote doesn't surprise me.

Literally use chat gpt to write their shit.

colliding posted...

The Russos have done a great job post Endgame totally destroying any sort of artistic credibility they had so that quote doesn't surprise me.

Literally use chat gpt to write their shit.

wait what

Ok, that was an exaggeration/falsehood on my part. In reality they're just some of those people who are "optimistic" about AI content creation in the future.

But if you watched The Grey Man, I wouldn't be surprised, woof.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I haven't seen the movie in a while but didn't they outright say he was afraid?

And also if that was the lesson, why now? Why this timing?

Also why is THE HULK trying to teach Banner lessons?

Why the timing? I would say it makes a bit of sense with Thor Ragnarok. After Age of Ultron, you've got Hulk in control for at least the majority if not all his time in space and in the Grandmaster's arena. Years away from Earth and Earth problems and puny Banner. Thor shows up, hands him, presumably, what would have been a loss, and brings him back to Banner ruining a perfectly good life for Hulk. They take back Asgard, he beats up a big wolf (after Banner bounces into the sea), and... total destruction very shortly after at the hands of Thanos.

So, yeah, Hulk in Infinity War? Yeah, he's got major issues to work out with Banner. He had a good life, Banner takes over and he becomes a tool again to be used only when needed then go back in the box. Hulk can be petty to get what Hulk wants.

The "No!" sounds less afraid of Thanos and more, "You wanted to be in control! You're in control!" Like a child trying to punish his parents.

Or ignore my reply and read PO's in #26 which is 100x better

ChichiriMuyo posted...

I dunno if one of the Russos wrote that, but I despise it. It makes me ick. It makes me ick hard. It makes me ick hard because Bruce does not think of the Hulk as a hero, he thinks of the Hulk as a monster (as he rightly should). If you want to say he calls on the Hulk in moments of desperation, sure. But it's not because the Hulk is any sort of hero, at all. A pacifist could pick up a gun and shoot another human being to save themselves in desperation. That doesn't make them a gun lover. Also, this radically undermines the shift to "Smart Hulk" we see in Endgame. This takes two fundamentally opposed forces realizing how they intrinsically benefit each other and turns it into something more akin to a lovers spat that becomes mended. Ick.

It was Joe Russo