Board 8 > Reality TV Discussion Topic: Delayed by the Writers' Strike

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think I could best describe Cory as Ryan Ulrich with much more self-awareness.

I don't think asking "How much like Zach is Cory?" is going to get a good answer since Zach lasted one episode and the most notable thing about him is that the winner had a crush on him.

Mewtwo59 posted...

I don't think asking "How much like Zach is Cory?" is going to get a good answer since Zach lasted one episode and the most notable thing about him is that the winner had a crush on him.

Cory has:
-Better self-confidence
-Better social acumen
-A showmance, so even that is a step above where Zach got

They are probably roughly equal in terms of challenges but that's harder to say. Zach could have become surprisingly decent a la Carson.

Eh, I don't know. Carson put on some muscle before he went out there while Zach was still a twig. Zach probably would've had the same success Romeo did.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

This explains a lot. I hope you can find a way to correct your self-loathing.

For me, it depends on the superfan, and how long they last. The ones that are tryhard know-it-alls thirsty for screentime tend to be the most obnoxious. The ones who don't care about pretending to be good TV (or just ARE naturally good TV) and are there to win are the most likable.

How much like his brother is Cory? I watched only two episodes and the one DR of his I remember was a joke about winning America's heart as well as America's heart. The country and the one he's banging.

It's not so much self-loathing as it is just acknowledgement of who I am. As a superfan (and I mean legitimate, not just "I watched all this stuff in the past two years and suddenly consider myself an expert), I am very arrogant in my opinions on Survivor and Big Brother and Amazing Race. I believe myself to be smarter than a lot of people. And as we've seen in this very topic series over the years...that kind of attitude can be extremely obnoxious. Now imagine that personality, projected into a season-long television show. Not only do you have someone who thinks they're the smartest person in the room because they've "studied the game" extensively, but they're also typically the types of people who are socially awkward, and completely miss the social aspect of the game that might allow them to use that assumed intellect to their advantage. That, and a general lack of challenge prowess effectively means that more often than not, you have some obnoxious blowhard Redditor who believes, however unjustly, that he's God's gift to Survivor/Big Brother, and the arrogance is just annoying to watch.

And it also tends to become more annoying, because those same Redditor-style fans look at the nerds on the show and say "That person's like me! That's how I would play if I was on the show!" And then they downplay the worst aspects of the player and tend to whitewash some of the fuck-ups they made. It's like with Nick Wilson in DvG...I HATED him because he was obnoxious and whiny (and I fully acknowledge, just based on my history in ORGs, that I would be fucking whiny myself on the show). But the fans LOVED DvG and they thought Nick was this AMAZING winner, even though I'd argue he helped tank two seasons of the show by his presence. They're not bottom tier, but Nick certainly makes them worse than they could have been.

I'd hardly say Nick ruined WaW with how much they dragged him in that season (unless you're taking his future actions into account, then I can agree with that)

Mewtwo59 posted...

I'd hardly say Nick ruined WaW with how much they dragged him in that season (unless you're taking his future actions into account, then I can agree with that)

Not even that. Nick was basically a character who I wasn't excited to see come back, because of how he was in DvG, and then unlike Adam or Ben, who improved upon my initial, negative opinion of their original seasons, he did nothing but join a lame alliance, wind up on the outs, and then at a point in the season where Tony already had Sarah, Ben, and Denise all willingly simping for him, Nick decided "I'm going to become the bottom of the pecking order while still clearing the road to Tony's easy march towards victory."

Inviso posted...

But the fans LOVED DvG and they thought Nick was this AMAZING winner, even though I'd argue he helped tank two seasons of the show by his presence. They're not bottom tier, but Nick certainly makes them worse than they could have been.

I loved DvG and still do but Nick winning is the most "eh" thing about the season. It's about the journey, not the destination - everything else is stellar, and because of that they needed him back for WaW. You can't not represent the current "best season ever" according to the casuals, after all. He was a non-entity for me in WaW.

I've been watching these shows for a very long time so I consider my opinions to be fully formed by context, time period, aging, etc. but I don't see myself as better than anyone else who's a legit superfan. That term is thrown around too much these days to describe more casual viewers who consume international seasons - no, superfans are people who remember earlier seasons and know boot orders, data, and other random trivia. Like I used to be. "Superfans" don't include people who are just in a Facebook group to simp over Australian Survivor without recognition of how flawed it often is.

That said, I know I'd be whiny and insufferable on a show like that now, and that's why I don't intend on ever applying. I'm way past that phase of wanting to be on the show and have been for 4-5 years. I can understand why you'd hate people like that. The arrogant ones are often the worst, unless they're accompanied by storylines of general failure and/or getting owned by the jury for neglecting the social game. Most of them don't have good storylines like that.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

The arrogant ones are often the worst, unless they're accompanied by storylines of general failure and/or getting owned by the jury for neglecting the social game.

This is why I hate so badly how the fans and production/CBS worshipped Russell Hantz so much for so long. I really, really could appreciate him as an arrogant supervillain who got what was coming to him if not for everyone thinking he was the greatest thing to happen to the show and the trajectory that belief put the show down.

Underleveled posted...

This is why I hate so badly how the fans and production/CBS worshipped Russell Hantz so much for so long. I really, really could appreciate him as an arrogant supervillain who got what was coming to him if not for everyone thinking he was the greatest thing to happen to the show and the trajectory that belief put the show down.

Russell Hantz was a fantastic antagonist on his own and one of the ones I had in mind with the sentence you quoted. However, the Hantz worship was what was absolutely insufferable, and he forever changed the show for the worse. The seeds of modern Survivor being so soulless can be traced to the response to The Hantz and all the idiots who claim "Russell should of won both his seasons." Even one idiot I blocked said he should've won HvV unanimously, when he'd treated Rupert and Danielle like absolute garbage. I blocked that person for having a sub-50 IQ + condoning bullying.

But sadly, people like that are common in the fandom, and they don't understand that Survivor is not emotionally detached. Berating people will cost you dearly, such as them not giving you a jury vote. People have said it's "a very hot take" when I say he's not in my top 100 players of all time but I don't get how that's hot. His record speaks for itself: Twice he was a jury goat and twice he was the first person voted off his tribe, one time with an idol around his neck! There's also the fact that he acted like the world was ending after Rupert put a rock in his pocket.

I really enjoy Russell in a vacuum as an over-the-top supervillain but his fans just ruin it all. He lost both times legitimately: Because he was an arrogant jackass. He should not have changed the game as much as he did. Survivor ain't human chess, even today.

Just watched last night's episode and it kinda exemplified why I dislike Cory. Basically, the entire fight was Jared's fault, he was 100% lying and being an asshole while lying, yet Cory still came across as this condescending douche. Like he's SO smart and he's able to articulate his points SO well that surely no one could ever possibly doubt his loyalty and trustworthiness. Plus, calling out Cirie for having her fingers in a lot of pies...like your ass wasn't specifically trying to play the middle and let everyone else take shots at one another.

I REALLY don't see it that way at all. I thought he stood up for himself well and called out what needed to be called out. And God forbid anyone finally point out that Cirie is playing everyone.

Underleveled posted...

I REALLY don't see it that way at all. I thought he stood up for himself well and called out what needed to be called out. And God forbid anyone finally point out that Cirie is playing everyone.

Again, he's 100% in the right about everything. But it's the emotionless, robotic way he had to paint everything as logical that bugged me. Jared's getting emotional and yelling, and then you're going to scoff in your diary room about how that's not how you win a debate, dohoho.

I don't really think he was emotionless and robotic and literally the second he started to raise his voice Jared hypocritically told him not to yell so yeah I kinda get him feeling the need to take the more diplomatic approach.

Underleveled posted...

I don't really think he was emotionless and robotic and literally the second he started to raise his voice Jared hypocritically told him not to yell so yeah I kinda get him feeling the need to take the more diplomatic approach.

I was referring more to his diary rooms than the in-the-moment stuff.

To be fair I've always felt that almost everyone sounds fairly robotic in the DR. It always sounds rehearsed and narrative. It's a very stark contrast to confessionals on Survivor. In the years I've been watching the show there have been very few exceptions to this. The biggest ones that come to mind are Cody Nickson who was deliberately being outright defiant towards how people are "supposed" to be on the show, and Taylor Hale, and even with her it was really only when she was upset. When things were going her way she sounded like everyone else.

Underleveled posted...

To be fair I've always felt that almost everyone sounds fairly robotic in the DR. It always sounds rehearsed and narrative. It's a very stark contrast to confessionals on Survivor. In the years I've been watching the show there have been very few exceptions to this. The biggest ones that come to mind are Cody Nickson who was deliberately being outright defiant towards how people are "supposed" to be on the show, and Taylor Hale, and even with her it was really only when she was upset. When things were going her way she sounded like everyone else.

bring back Britney Haynes

(I guess I should add that the other category of exceptions are the people who seem to think that the DR is the place to be as loud and obnoxious as possible, like Paul, and I mean, even those sound pretty rehearsed anyway)

So just to recap what this zombie twist means, Thursday, October 5 will be the 65th day of the game and the person evicted that night will STILL be pre-jury. I'm sorry but someone who has lasted THAT long really should be on jury by that point.

Anyway I hope Cameron wins the zombie buyback because this cockroach story is just getting nuttier and nuttier.

How many people have been eliminated for good at this point?

Luke, Kirsten, Reilly, Hisam, Red, Izzy.

Six out of 17, and we just passed the halfway mark of a 100 day season.

And keep in mind one of those was an ejection so they didn't even plan on it.

I imagine one of these pointless weeks would've probably been a regular week if Luke hadn't been expelled.

mnk posted...

I imagine one of these pointless weeks would've probably been a regular week if Luke hadn't been expelled.

I'd think the plan might've always been to have this Fake Double Eviction as it was, with Survivor and TAR premiering on Wednesday and Big Brother's schedule having to adjust. It may have been a CBS scheduling thing. I do wish the houseguests were kept unaware of this Zombie shit and thus would be paranoid that something's up, because that's how you make good TV. Since they all know they have a week off, they have time to relax and not have to worry about lying to each other. That is how you get viewers to quit watching feeds and maybe the season entirely.

I'm wondering if Luke getting banned got Grodner to cancel the real Double, or if the power that saved Jag was added later, or if this was a changed plan with what they had.

Yeah, given the schedule for this week, I would guess it's probably the invincibility twist that was added after Luke's expulsion.

But I also keep thinking the Scrambleverse has been pretty underutilized, and maybe Luke screwed up a Scramble twist somehow instead.

So, if I'm not mistaken, this competition is timed, so if they don't finish by the time the timer runs out, whoever has the most skulls wins, right? So since any sort of movement risks having to restart, wouldn't optimal strategy be to stall if the other person drops and not continue to play until they're close to catching up?

Or am I mistaken and the final round isn't timed? I was only kinda half paying attention to the rules.

Isn't that how Adam played the final immunity in MvGX? Once David fell, he just sat there to guarantee that he'd beat David.

Underleveled posted...

So, if I'm not mistaken, this competition is timed, so if they don't finish by the time the timer runs out, whoever has the most skulls wins, right? So since any sort of movement risks having to restart, wouldn't optimal strategy be to stall if the other person drops and not continue to play until they're close to catching up?

Or am I mistaken and the final round isn't timed? I was only kinda half paying attention to the rules.

It sounded to me like the third round isn't timed, which just makes the first two rounds pointless.

Won't be watching live tonight because I'm watching a volleyball game.

Yes, that's right, sportsball is taking priority over Survivor now. Amazing how far we've fallen.

Already hating Drew after one confessional.

On a scale of Wanda to Wendy Jo, how first boot is Emily?

Blaziken posted...

Already hating Drew after one confessional.

Wasn't he one of the guys who paid Adam Klein to help them get cast?

That says a lot right there. There are three of them, all male.

Underleveled posted...

On a scale of Wanda to Wendy Jo, how first boot is Emily?

Honestly, if she's a first boot, she's already in the pantheon of amazing first boots.

Man this yellow tribe is just not built for the game. I would be stunned if the first boot isn't one of Emily/Brandon/Hannah

That Sifu scene was great. Best scene of the episode so far.

I don't think you need to remind Bruce to keep his head down, Jeff.

Lulu is SO weak, holy shit.

I'm not even sure Brandon was the worst in that challenge. Sabiyah was pretty bad too.

And yeah, they need Kaleb to be their Jonathan, and I don't think he's quite on that level.

Jeff's gotten soft in his old age.

Honestly, that was a pretty low-tier premiere.

Honestly, it was a pretty solid premiere. A lot better than I was expecting, given the cast looked REALLY shitty and Jeff's interviews were all about how many advantages they have in the game now. Amazing first boot, too.

Oooh, Express Pass is back!

THIRTEEN teams?!

I'm glad at least one show is undoing some of the pandemic changes rather than keeping them around to cut the budget.

I already love Anna Leigh and Joe & Ian

Just seeing the diversity of relationships and age ranges, especially after the last few seasons have skewed largely younger and more influencer-feeling, makes me really hopeful for this season of TAR.

Survivor's feeling that way that season, actually. Age wise you have Julie at 49 and Bruce at 46 (and he was a recast from last season), then the next oldest are Sean and Katurah at 34.

Not the worst Survivor's ever skewed young. Lookin' at you, Ghost Island. 42-year-old Angela was the oldest.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Survivor's feeling that way that season, actually. Age wise you have Julie at 49 and Bruce at 46 (and he was a recast from last season), then the next oldest are Sean and Katurah at 34.

Yeah, I was NOT excited for Survivor based off the cast. Too many yuppies, plus, I mean, in the past two seasons, despite the BIPOC mandate, they have cast 6 white-passing (Matt is apparently Asian, and Brando is half-Asian), scruffy-haired nerdy superfan guys with glasses.

Who's Matt?