Current Events > Joker was such an overrated, garbage-tier movie.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Be afraid of mentally ill people because they could randomly murder you over any slight.

Good advice

While this is true, there are definitely points where the movie 100% tries to have its cake and eat it too. Like this social worker scene comes right after Arthur goes on a whole spiel about how the social worker doesn't actually give a shit about him, and then there's nothing done to suggest otherwise except when the social worker says she won't be taking him anymore because the budget has been cut, and it tries to act like she actually cares, even though the last time we saw her was Arthur explaining how little she does.

The movie goes "its about nobody caring" and then says "wait no it's about how there aren't enough resources to help the people who do want to help" using the same characters. Then there isn't even any deeper statements made because the social worker proceeds to disappear from the story.

That...wasn't at all what he was getting at. Try to resist the urge to be argumentative for the hell of it.

While this is true, there are definitely points where the movie 100% tries to have its cake and eat it too. Like this social worker scene comes right after Arthur goes on a whole spiel about how the social worker doesn't actually give a shit about him, and then there's nothing done to suggest otherwise except when the social worker says she won't be taking him anymore because the budget has been cut, and it tries to act like she actually cares, even though the last time we saw her was Arthur explaining how little she does.

The movie goes "its about nobody caring" and then says "wait no it's about how there aren't enough resources to help the people who do want to help" using the same characters. Then there isn't even any deeper statements made because the social worker proceeds to disappear from the story.

People wanna talk about the message of the movie and how it's a character study of a mentally ill person and how the mental health system is a mess, but Joker in the movie is a creepy murderer. If the message is supposed to be we're failing our most vulnerable segment of society, maybe don't make the avatar for the message someone who people will look at and go "Wow, I wouldn't want that guy anywhere near me in real life"

Most mentally ill people are harmless, but if anything this movie which is apparently supposed to make a point about mental illness just reinforces the stigma people have about it.

Not everything needs to have the positive message you crave. Ignoring mental health issues can lead to dangerous consequences whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

To be serious though. I agree with this. You literally took the most unhinged dangerous villain to use for your attempt at drawing attention to the plight of the mentally ill lol. He already has a negative established reputation and is a horrible person to use to try to pull sympathy for the mentally ill. The movie is not honorable lol. It's poorly thought out in this regard and seems more self serving to the film maker rather than caring about a real potent message.

To be serious though. I agree with this. You literally took the most unhinged dangerous villain to use for your attempt at drawing attention to the plight of the mentally ill lol. He already has a negative established reputation and is a horrible person to use to try to pull sympathy for the mentally ill. The movie is not honorable lol. It's poorly thought out in this regard and seems more self serving to the film maker rather than caring about a real potent message.

I don't know, I like the notion that had the system just not been so fucked up and Arthur hadn't slipped through the cracks, a horrible criminal could have perhaps never gone off the deep end. The idea that the system is so broken that it's very inneffectiveness can breed enough ill will and hatred in people that it does the complete opposite of helping them and pushes them further into the depths of their mental illness.

It's not the world's deepest message, but I wouldn't say it's poorly thought out.

Not everything needs to have the positive message you crave. Ignoring mental health issues can lead to dangerous consequences whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

At best the movie is saying "We need to help mentally ill people because if we don't one of them might murderer you when you least expect it"

Which is great for the 99% of harmless mentally ill people who might act "odd" because they're low functioning.

Maybe don't group 99% of harmless mentally ill people with a few cases who are violent when you're trying to make a general point about mental illness? Especially when mentally ill people already have a stigma of being unhinged/dangerous that's just starting to be moved passed.

If you feel you're struggling with mental illness how willing are you going to be to admit it to yourself or others or get help when this is presented to you as the average mentally ill person?

Parasite was the better movie, but that doesn't take away what a great movie Joker was. Joaquin Phoenix gave a fantastic performance.

This is exactly the nonsense I'm talking about.

You seem like someone who can't tell the difference between actual nonsense and just not understanding something lol.you might not be. But you leave a lot of blanks to fill in when your response is so weak lol.

You seem like someone who thinks they're smarter than everyone else so you criticize "messages" in media because you're afraid that all of the plebians are going to get the wrong message from a movie based on a comic book character. Yes, now that we've seen the joker movie we think everybody with even the slightest mental health issues are potential murderers.

You seem like someone who thinks they're smarter than everyone else so you criticize "messages" in media because you're afraid that all of the plebians are going to get the wrong message from a movie based on a comic book character. Yes, now that we've seen the joker movie we think everybody with even the slightest mental health issues are potential murderers.

the problem with joker is hes too much a sympathetic victim of circumstance and not as much an unhinged maniac

the other problem is this movie has already been done but better (king of comedy, falling down) where those anti heroes are actually truly disturbing at times but at the same time the audience still understands what drove them to that point.

the other problem is the batman theme didnt add anything at all. it was cool seeing him mess with young bruce wayne but that didnt go anywhere and added nothing to the actual plot.

While this is true, there are definitely points where the movie 100% tries to have its cake and eat it too. Like this social worker scene comes right after Arthur goes on a whole spiel about how the social worker doesn't actually give a shit about him, and then there's nothing done to suggest otherwise except when the social worker says she won't be taking him anymore because the budget has been cut, and it tries to act like she actually cares, even though the last time we saw her was Arthur explaining how little she does.

The movie goes "its about nobody caring" and then says "wait no it's about how there aren't enough resources to help the people who do want to help" using the same characters. Then there isn't even any deeper statements made because the social worker proceeds to disappear from the story.

The problem is that people want to act like this is a great message about how you shouldn't treat mentally ill people badly and that they need more help, but at no point does Arthur come across as likable. Sympathetic maybe, in the sense that you might pity him and feel bad for him, but at no point does he come across as a normal person with issues who you otherwise might want to get to know. He's a stalker, a murderer, and always comes across as completely unhinged.

A better way to make this point would be to make Arthur someone audiences would like as they get to know, and at the end have him kill himself, maybe on TV, to make audiences go gee, he seemed pretty nice and it sucks he went through that, we should do more.

But as it stands the message comes across more as "the dangers of not helping mentally ill people" rather than "help mentally ill people because most of them are just like you but have issues they can't help"

And again, maybe that's fine as an origin story for the Joker. But as a "character study of a severely mentally ill person" it's a horrible message.

The problem is that people want to act like this is a great message about how you shouldn't treat mentally ill people badly and that they need more help, but at no point does Arthur come across as likable. Sympathetic maybe, in the sense that you might pity him and feel bad for him, but at no point does he come across as a normal person with issues who you otherwise might want to get to know. He's a stalker, a murderer, and always comes across as completely unhinged.

A better way to make this point would be to make Arthur someone audiences would like as they get to know, and at the end have him kill himself, maybe on TV, to make audiences go gee, he seemed pretty nice and it sucks he went through that, we should do more.

But as it stands the message comes across more as "the dangers of not helping mentally ill people" rather than "help mentally ill people because most of them are just like you but have issues they can't help"

And again, maybe that's fine as an origin story for the Joker. But as a "character study of a severely mentally ill person" it's a horrible message.

Why does he have to be likeable? A lot of real life murderers were failed by society. It doesn't condone the horrors they committed and are fully responsible for, but it still might have all been prevented if they weren't abused or if the red flags were immediately addressed or what have you.

The flaw here is assuming there always has to be a sympathetic character.

Because my point is directed at people who act like Joker is a commentary on mental illness in general, but again what you're saying means the message is essentially "help mentally ill people because if you don't one might kill you" which is a horrible message when you're trying to speak generally about mental illness.

But your point is moot anyway because he's obviously supposed to be a sympathetic character.

You could argue Jeffrey Dahmer was mentally ill and failed by society, but telling people "any mentally ill person could potentially be pushed to be Jeffrey Dahmer" is not only untrue, but entirely fucked up to say when so many people already have views that mentally ill people are dangerous.

ngl, the part where he asks "Do i look like some kind of Joker to you??" all menacingly like gave me the chills!

The problem is that people want to act like this is a great message about how you shouldn't treat mentally ill people badly and that they need more help, but at no point does Arthur come across as likable.

He needs to be likable for mental illness to matter?

I'd argue that kind of thinking is why mental illness is so poor.

As a popcorn flick, it's just a bad movie.

But people who act like it has some kind of great message or is saying something about mental illness are so far off the mark it's not even funny, because it actually has a really horrible message about mental illness.

If you like or dislike it because it's a dumb comic book origin movie, whatever, but don't act like it's a realistic character study of someone who is mentally ill.

In one post you acknowledge it tries to have a message by saying "Not everything needs to have the positive message you crave. Ignoring mental health issues can lead to dangerous consequences whether you want to acknowledge it or not." but in another it's just a movie about a comic book character. You can't have it both ways.

I appreciate your passion on the subject but to me it's just someone's art piece. In that movie I see a fictional individual case study. When I watch a movie about a rape victim that goes on a vigilante rampage I don't assume all rape victims are murderous.

Because my point is directed at people who act like Joker is a commentary on mental illness in general, but again what you're saying means the message is essentially "help mentally ill people because if you don't one might kill you" which is a horrible message when you're trying to speak generally about mental illness.

But your point is moot anyway because he's obviously supposed to be a sympathetic character.

You could argue Jeffrey Dahmer was mentally ill and failed by society, but telling people "any mentally ill person could potentially be pushed to be Jeffrey Dahmer" is not only untrue, but entirely fucked up to say when so many people already have views that mentally ill people are dangerous.

Then you're obviously not one of the people I'm referring to, in which case there's nothing really to talk about.

You're not really referring to any one type of person are you. You quoted me first but you're talking about the movie? I didn't write it.

Im so glad Parasite whipped its ass at the Oscars and made incel dudes cry cheeto-scented, greasy tears

Your first post and what you're saying now are entirely different, presumably because you couldn't back up your original point. I just chose to not point that out.

"Not everything needs to have the positive message you crave. Ignoring mental health issues can lead to dangerous consequences whether you want to acknowledge it or not."

Which is very different from

"It's just a fictional art piece about a specific character"

Both of those are correct. You're trying to be be officer big brain but it just doesn't work.

Uhuh. I deleted my post because I can't be bothered arguing with you but the fact is, you deny people's points without saying anything to back yours up while also repeatedly trying to change what you actually said.

Either the movie is trying to have a message like you originally said, just not a positive one, in which case it's not just "not positive" it's an entirely negative way to view severely mentally ill people.

Or it's basically just shlock akin to a victim of tragedy going on a vigililante mission. But it can't be both.

Is this willful ignorance? It's a movie. It's the writers opinion or just an idea. It's art. You assume everyone else is too dumb to see that but you're the one having problems.