Current Events > Joker was such an overrated, garbage-tier movie.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sufferedphoneix posted...

The moral of the story was mental health care is shit in this country. Like I feel that was the whole message behind the movie

The problem is that we all already figured that out forever ago and didn't need a movie to walk us through it very slowly and boringly lol.

Parasite was much more clever and interesting.

Lost_All_Senses posted...

The problem is that we all already figured that out forever ago and didn't need a movie to walk us through it very slowly and boringly lol.

Parasite was much more clever and interesting.

Hate to tell you, but not everyone has figured that out, or are you missing the large contingent in America that wants to reduce people's access to health care?

Also, yeah I think Parasite was better too. Who cares? One being good doesn't mean I can't like the other too.

codey posted...

Did you really get that far in the movie and think he was supposed to be cool?

I did not, but Ive seen plenty of Facebook memes of edgy mallgoths celebrating that line.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

I did not, but Ive seen plenty of Facebook memes of edgy mallgoths celebrating that line.

So you know he isn't supposed to come across as being cool but still want to criticize the movie for the line not coming across cool?

It is really bad, I liked it even less on a second viewing.

codey posted...

So you know he isn't supposed to come across as being cool but still want to criticize the movie for the line not coming across cool?

Its a stupid ass line, yeah. Not in a he wasnt supposed to be cool! way, in a its bad writing way.

Better than Parasite. I will die on that hill.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

Its a stupid ass line, yeah. Not in a he wasnt supposed to be cool! way, in a its bad writing way.

How is something an unstable person would actually say come across as bad writing?

You also seem to be shifting your argument.

It's just a Scorsese knock off that doesn't respect the audience's intelligence saved by a great performance.

Parasite was indeed better and Song Kang-ho gave a better performance than Joaquin imo, but you'd never see a foreign actor in a foreign film get nominated for best actor, let alone win.

bsp77 posted...

How is something an unstable person would actually say come across as bad writing?

You also seem to be shifting your argument.

Because it was supposed to be his revenge on the people making fun of him moment where he finally snaps and the joke he said was a really stupid way for that moment to happen because it sounded like a really cheesy movie line.

Its okay if you guys thought it was amazing, we can disagree. I thought it was dumb and thats fine.

I think the movie was purposely trying to portray that even if society has beaten you down you still have no right to go on a murderous rampage.

the Joker in this movie didnt say out loud that he was an idea and have a tattoo on his forehead saying "DAMAGED" tho so i gotta subtract points for that...

EmilyTheCEman posted...

Because it was supposed to be his revenge on the people making fun of him moment where he finally snaps and the joke he said was a really stupid way for that moment to happen because it sounded like a really cheesy movie line.

Its okay if you guys thought it was amazing, we can disagree. I thought it was dumb and thats fine.

thatsthejoke.jpg

Good movie that would have been forgotten if it wasn't about The Joker. I'd say the Oscars even overrated the film. I don't think it wins best actor if the movie wasn't about the well known Joker, but instead an original character.

Blightzkrieg posted...

I don't understand why fans of Joker the character like Joker the movie when movie Joker doesn't feel like Batman Joker at all

I was pretty disappointed as well. It was the Joker in name only. I wanted to see the birth of an iconic villain, not some schmuck down on his luck with everything bad that could happen happening to him.

codey posted...

Hate to tell you, but not everyone has figured that out, or are you missing the large contingent in America that wants to reduce people's access to health care?

Also, yeah I think Parasite was better too. Who cares? One being good doesn't mean I can't like the other too.

I meant people who care to know. I didn't mean literally everyone knows. But then again, it was a big movie to people. So, yeah, I must be wrong either way. The people who weren't that into it is who I should of generalized on.

Irony posted...

Nobody even remembers Parasite anymore. Don't lie and say you do. At least Joker is meme'd.

This 100%.

Just last night I was browsing HBO Max movies. I was like "crap.. I forgot that Parasite existed". Lolz. Decided to watch a classic Godzilla movie instead. And I still think about Joker sometimes to this day.. especially since it's a meme too.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

The moral of the story was mental health care is shit in this country. Like I feel that was the whole message behind the movie. And I feel it showcases that well enough but just slapped a comic book character on it.

I'll give a small recent example. I had a co worker that reported he was having suicidal thoughts.

We had a new hire joke about suicide in front of him the other day and first he told him it wasn't something to joke about but then turned around and said if he was being serious he was better off just keeping it to himself. And that was based on how he's been treated since then.

And this is my issue with the movie. It would have been a great piece about mental health, it didn't need the tie in to Batman. I do concede that less people would have seen it though.

At no point when I watching the movie was I enjoying myself like during other Batman or superhero movies in general. It was so oppressive and the fact that the Joker's mental state was inescapable just made it dreary to watch.

I've been around people dealing with mental sickness all of my life, relatives when I was young, and coworkers when I got older. The last place I want to be reminded of it, in your face with no way to lighten the mood, is a superhero movie.

If at least some of the movie moved away from mental sickness and dealt with lighter material it might be bearable. But I get it, for those who deal with mental sickness it is inescapable and oppressive, and honestly the movie conveyed that perfectly. I just wish it wasn't a superhero movie, that got such high praise, so I could have avoided the whole ordeal of watching it.

And perhaps the worst part of all of this, is that certain sections of society lauded Joker as a hero, and took away the worst message possible.

Am I the only person on Earth who watched Parasite and didnt think much of it?

SpiritSephiroth posted...

Am I the only person on Earth who watched Parasite and didnt think much of it?

Obviously not.
I loved Joker and Parasite. It's fine not to like something that has widespread acclaim, but when you act like everyone that liked the movie only did so because they're dumb or have poor taste, like some people itt, it makes you look like an ass.

It was fine. It was a bit overrated.

rexcrk posted...

Remember how badly the media wanted there to be shootings because of this movie?

I thought it was a group of bored white women that were pushing that narrative?

GeraldDarko posted...

Obviously not.
I loved Joker and Parasite. It's fine not to like something that has widespread acclaim, but when you act like everyone that liked the movie only did so because they're dumb or have poor taste, like some people itt, it makes you look like an ass.

Yes

It was alright.

I just think it's a very surface level take when it comes to "social commentary"

EmilyTheCEman posted...

Because it was supposed to be his revenge on the people making fun of him moment where he finally snaps and the joke he said was a really stupid way for that moment to happen because it sounded like a really cheesy movie line.

Its okay if you guys thought it was amazing, we can disagree. I thought it was dumb and thats fine.

I don't think it was "amazing" in the least, but you're fundamentally missing the point. Joker in this movie is a mentally ill, bad comedian that is going through a breakdown. A "cheesy movie line" is absolutely what that character would say in that situation. Again, this is a mentally ill, documented awful comedian. He thinks that line is cool and funny when everyone else, including the audience in the scene and the audience watching at home, knows it's neither of those two things.

For those of you calling it "baby's first arthouse film"... you're not wrong but would you think anyone (hell anyone on CE) would've watched the film if it was called by its original name "Arthur"? Unless you're a film cinephile like me, there's a good chance the movie would've joined the likes of other obscure as fuck art house films. I think Joker was probably the best introduction to an "indie" Art House movie and I do enjoy the fact that WB allowed experimentation like this with their IP's that aren't forced to be part of the Cinematic Universe and instead be it's own thing.

it was ok i was expecting joker to terrorize more people tho after his awakening

Sad_Face posted...

I was pretty disappointed as well. It was the Joker in name only. I wanted to see the birth of an iconic villain, not some schmuck down on his luck with everything bad that could happen happening to him.

That's literally how "the birth of the iconic villain" happens in his most well known and lauded story though. Not those events exactly, but it is 100% some schmuck down on his luck with everything bad happening to him.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

Because it was supposed to be his revenge on the people making fun of him moment where he finally snaps and the joke he said was a really stupid way for that moment to happen because it sounded like a really cheesy movie line.

Its okay if you guys thought it was amazing, we can disagree. I thought it was dumb and thats fine.

Have you ever seen any of the mass murderers or serial killers in real life? Almost all of them were complete fucking losers their whole lives and they come off as awkward and unintelligent in their manifestos/interviews.

The Joker is not supposed to be cool, and especially not in that movie. Arthur saying some dumb, cringy bullshit when he snaps is completely on-brand. You clearly missed what the movie was "supposed" to be. He's some random nobody who sucks at telling jokes who society lets fall through the cracks, and he thinks that justifies him murdering people. No one is the good guy in the movie.

He gets revenge, but it's not earned or morally justified.

Prestoff posted...

Some of you guys are missing the point of The Joker movie. It's not only a characters study of someone who has clearly a lot of mental health issues, but also shows the failures of our mental health care as well.

Yeah I didnt miss that incredibly surface level theme they hamfistedly shoved into the movie. Its a very obvious point made poorly by a movie thats basically just copying another movie, entirely carried by the performance of one actor.

The fact it has a single (extremely fucking muddled, barely explored) message about mental health sort of sandwiched in between a bunch of plodding scenes doesnt make it good.

VeggetaX posted...

I think the movie was purposely trying to portray that even if society has beaten you down you still have no right to go on a murderous rampage.

It did a super great job of that by basically making the ending him triumphantly starting a movement because the movie isnt sure whether its about mental health or about capitalism and oligarchy being bad for the average person or about anarchy.

codey posted...

Hate to tell you, but not everyone has figured that out, or are you missing the large contingent in America that wants to reduce people's access to health care?

Also, yeah I think Parasite was better too. Who cares? One being good doesn't mean I can't like the other too.

Those people know, they just dont care.

Thats the difference. This movies not changing them either. We know this because theres a slew of other movies who have done the same thing better.

Hell, silver linings playbook was a pretty widespread appeal movie that got a lot of acclaim, and like all movies on the subject, people watched it and went man that was cool but I still dont want to increase access to healthcare

If the message is "Guy goes on a killing rampage because the world wronged him", then it's not a good message. It's not a good look. That's like making a movie about a school shooter and dramatizing it like this and saying it's for art.

Pikachuchupika posted...

If the message is "Guy goes on a killing rampage because the world wronged him", then it's not a good message. It's not a good look. That's like making a movie about a school shooter and dramatizing it like this and saying it's for art.

It is possible to empathize with someone, understand and criticize what caused things to happen, and also NOT condone someone's behavior.

This site has so many people who can only think in simple black and white.

I think theres more people who didn't understand the Joker movie pushing the "hur dur incel movie!", than actual incels who identified with the character.

I think the problem was when the movie was first coming out, there were all those nutjobs who were claiming the movie was glorifying incels and were warning people about the theater shootings that would happen. Then, because our country is so fuckin split down the middle on everything, that overreaction led to another overreaction by the other side that called it a masterpiece.

Personally, I definitely enjoyed myself when I saw it in theaters and thought it was pretty good. Dunno if that would hold up on a subsequent viewing what with knowing the plot twist about his imagined relationship with that woman. I'd agree to say there was some overrating of it, but I don't think it's garbage tier by any means.

bsp77 posted...

It is possible to empathize with someone, understand and criticize what caused things to happen, and also NOT condone someone's behavior.

This site has so many people who can only think in simple black and white.

A better message would have gone like this: Guy has a lot of problems. The world sucks. Guy decides to get help and fix his problems. Guy makes friends along the way and tries to better his life. The end.

At least cheetos don't contain soy.

Prestoff posted...

Some of you guys are missing the point of The Joker movie. It's not only a characters study of someone who has clearly a lot of mental health issues, but also shows the failures of our mental health care as well.

My main gripe isn't the point itself. It's how it was conveyed. The movie borrows way too much the Batman universe while contributing nothing to it. The director for the movie clearly wanted to do a mental health PSA but it feels like he used the Batman universe to sell the tickets so that people would see it rather than build an origin story or even a multiverse. The movie should've been it's own identity rather than borrowing like that. The end result is a lot of awkward writing that seems to suggest writers went "oh wait this is supposed to be Batman related".

Could've played the title "Joker" as based off the playing card (52 deck of cards) rather than the character. It would've fit the general theme while separating it out from Batman.

Further messaging: Joker tries hard to change, and he goes through multiple therapists, but they all could not help him. In his darkest moment he is about to end it all. However, when he is walking towards the bridge, he notices a flyer on the street. The flyer is for a therapist that is trying all of the latest psych techniques. Cue Harley Quinn. He meets her and he starts becoming better after some time. They fall in love and live happily ever after.

Pikachuchupika posted...

If the message is "Guy goes on a killing rampage because the world wronged him", then it's not a good message. It's not a good look. That's like making a movie about a school shooter and dramatizing it like this and saying it's for art.

That's not really the message, though, or even a message at all. "Guy goes on a killing rampage because the world wronged him" is a plot, and it's not even this movie's plot. It's similar to the plot, but what that actually is would be more like "Mentally ill guy goes on a rampage after a life full of the system failing to help him and he perceives that as the world wronging him."

Look, it's okay to not like the movie but some of the rhetoric surrounding it really comes across as people either misunderstanding the film, not watching it at all, or going in wanting to dislike it.

This topic is such overrated garbage tier trolling.

Pikachuchupika posted...

A better message would have gone like this: Guy has a lot of problems. The world sucks. Guy decides to get help and fix his problems. Guy makes friends along the way and tries to better his life. The end.

The underlying message is accessibility to help and the lack of it. There is a scene in the movie before shit really hits the fan where Arthur is meeting with the social worker for the last time and is informed that the office is shutting down due to lack of funding. Despite the apathy between the two, Arthur still drags his ass to those meetings to see if something will work and the social worker still conducts the meetings. He even asks what will he need to do about medication and I don't think the social worker answered this for him. It's clearly a man trying to seek help that most people would tell him to do so but the world is denying that access to showcase the dysfunctional side of society.

After that scene, you see him slowly devolve into psychosis and eventually reaching the point of tragedy.

If someone is unable to help themselves and unable to access resources to help them help themselves, they are fucked. That's the message being conveyed.

Neo posted...

The underlying message is accessibility to help and the lack of it. There is a scene in the movie before shit really hits the fan where Arthur is meeting with the social worker for the last time and is informed that the office is shutting down due to lack of funding. Despite the apathy between the two, Arthur still drags his ass to those meetings to see if something will work and the social worker still conducts the meetings. He even asks what will he need to do about medication and I don't think the social worker answered this for him. It's clearly a man trying to seek help that most people would tell him to do so but the world is denying that access to showcase the dysfunctional side of society.

After that scene, you see him slowly devolve into psychosis and eventually reaching the point of tragedy.

If someone is unable to help themselves and unable to access resources to help them help themselves, they are fucked. That's the message being conveyed.

This in fact, is a major issue in mental health care. There's a lot of people who ended up at the mental hospital where I worked because funding for their meds was cut off, and thus they had to go to mental hospital, costing the taxpayers a lot more money than the prescription for probably five years ever would have.

Pikachuchupika posted...

A better message would have gone like this: Guy has a lot of problems. The world sucks. Guy decides to get help and fix his problems. Guy makes friends along the way and tries to better his life. The end.

As someone said it's more a social commentary on how the current mental health treatment absolutely fails at actually treating people. Sort of a slightly exaggerated warning to what would happen if the system failed a mentally ill person.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

The moral of the story was mental health care is shit in this country. Like I feel that was the whole message behind the movie. And I feel it showcases that well enough but just slapped a comic book character on it.

I'll give a small recent example. I had a co worker that reported he was having suicidal thoughts.

We had a new hire joke about suicide in front of him the other day and first he told him it wasn't something to joke about but then turned around and said if he was being serious he was better off just keeping it to himself. And that was based on how he's been treated since then.

Be afraid of mentally ill people because they could randomly murder you over any slight.

Good advice

ArchNemo posted...

Be afraid of mentally ill people because they could randomly murder you over any slight.

Good advice

That...wasn't at all what he was getting at. Try to resist the urge to be argumentative for the hell of it.

Prestoff posted...

Parasite was the better movie, but that doesn't take away what a great movie Joker was. Joaquin Phoenix gave a fantastic performance.

I agree with this.

Neo posted...

The underlying message is accessibility to help and the lack of it. There is a scene in the movie before s*** really hits the fan where Arthur is meeting with the social worker for the last time and is informed that the office is shutting down due to lack of funding. Despite the apathy between the two, Arthur still drags his ass to those meetings to see if something will work and the social worker still conducts the meetings. He even asks what will he need to do about medication and I don't think the social worker answered this for him. It's clearly a man trying to seek help that most people would tell him to do so but the world is denying that access to showcase the dysfunctional side of society.

After that scene, you see him slowly devolve into psychosis and eventually reaching the point of tragedy.

If someone is unable to help themselves and unable to access resources to help them help themselves, they are f***ed. That's the message being conveyed.

While this is true, there are definitely points where the movie 100% tries to have its cake and eat it too. Like this social worker scene comes right after Arthur goes on a whole spiel about how the social worker doesn't actually give a shit about him, and then there's nothing done to suggest otherwise except when the social worker says she won't be taking him anymore because the budget has been cut, and it tries to act like she actually cares, even though the last time we saw her was Arthur explaining how little she does.

The movie goes "its about nobody caring" and then says "wait no it's about how there aren't enough resources to help the people who do want to help" using the same characters. Then there isn't even any deeper statements made because the social worker proceeds to disappear from the story.