Current Events > Dee Snider has been informed that he is Transphobic, dropped by SF Pride

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3991724-so-i-hear-im-transphobic-dee-snider-responds-after-being-dropped-by-sf-pride/

Two days after he was pulled from a main-stage appearance at this years Pride Celebration in San Francisco and after his song, Were Not Gonna Take It, was canceled as the festivals unofficial rallying cry Twisted Sister front man Dee Snider has issued a response.
I was not aware the Transgender community expects fealty and total agreement with all their beliefs and any variation or deviation is considered transphobic,' wrote Snider in a Facebook post.
So, my lifetime of supporting the Transgender communitys right to identify as they want and honoring whatever changes they may make in how they present themselves to the world isnt enough? he continued, in a post he titled, So, I hear Im transphobic. Really?
At the center of the brouhaha with Pride is a tweet Snider sent earlier this week, in which he voiced his support for a statement from fellow rocker, Paul Stanley of Kiss, that was widely panned for being anti-trans.
Stanleys post read, in part: With many children who have no real sense of sexuality or sexual experiences caught up in the fun of using pronouns and saying what they identify as, some adults mistakenly confuse teaching acceptance with normalizing and encouraging a situation that has been a struggle for those truly affected and have turned it into a sad and dangerous fad.
The post led some to criticize the Kiss singer of mischaracterizing gender-affirming care as a some sort of game.
Snider retweeted Stanleys remarks, adding, You know what? There was a time where I felt pretty too. Glad my parents didnt jump to any rash conclusions.
The tweet resulted in Pride dropping Snider from its main stage where he was set to perform Twisted Sisters hard-rock anthem Were Not Gonna Take It.
Dee has always been a vocal supporter of LGBTQ+ rights, said SF Pride in a statement on the matter. However, when we were notified about the tweet in which Dee expressed support for Kisss Paul Stanleys transphobic statement, we were heartbroken and angry. The message perpetuated by that tweet casts doubt on young trans peoples ability to self-identify their gender.
In his lengthy response to being dropped by Pride, Snider attempted to explain his viewpoint, saying, Ive recently stated I do not believe young children are ready to decide their gender allocation. I believe their choices should be supported and accepted by their parents, but I do not think kids have the mental capabilities to make rational, logical decisions on things of a magnitude that will affect them for the rest of their lives.
Snider goes on to describe himself as a proud moderate, and a heterosexual who proudly supports LBGTQIA+ rights.
The transgender community needs moderates who support their choices, even if we dont agree with every one of their edicts, Snider continued. For some Transgender people (not all) to accuse supporters, like me, of transphobia is not a good look for their cause.
The singer, who signed off his statement as Your cisgender, crossdressing ally, said he would continue to support the transgender community and their right to choose, even if they reject me.
Kiss Paul Stanley, meanwhile, has since claimed the wording of his initial post was not clear.
Most importantly and above all else, I support those struggling with their sexual identity while enduring constant hostility and those whose path leads them to reassignment surgery, Stanley wrote Thursday on social media. Its hard to fathom the kind of conviction that one must feel to take those steps.

Yes, attacking a vocal, long time supporter because they dare to suggest nuance is always a smart idea (/s)

Dee Snider's balls are twice the size of Paul Stanley's.

https://youtu.be/cTC1TEVo3Aw

Yeah saying transgender people are just following a fad isn't horrible. They use to do that with gay people. Parents saying they hope their child grows out of it.

Yikes

Fuck off. Dee Snider is awesome and seems to have a better understanding on the cause than the people who rejected him.

Oh wow

I'm picking the side who is more morally correct. Guys, please let me know who it is.

wackyteen posted...

Ive recently stated I do not believe young children are ready to decide their gender allocation. I believe their choices should be supported and accepted by their parents, but I do not think kids have the mental capabilities to make rational, logical decisions on things of a magnitude that will affect them for the rest of their lives.
Snider goes on to describe himself as a proud moderate,

lol

That seems pretty harsh. Dee has been a strong and vocal supporter from the beginning and was doing drag back when not just before it was cool but when it was extremely uncool.

So what is the official hive mind take on Dee?

Shun him forever?

Goddamn. So many people fall for the lies about gender affirming care with children. The kids that regret and or detransition only make up something like 1% of the trans youth population. Maybe he's still an ally, but he fell for the "think of the kids" bullshit and supported a clearly transphobic statement.

Flauros posted...

So what is the official hive mind take on Dee?

Shun him forever?

https://youtu.be/n-sa21TMMac

At last transphobia has finally been defeated now that Dee Snider has been banished to the shadow realm for **checks notes* umm, supporting a personal friend who threw out a bad take on the internet and nothing more.

Good job

Flauros posted...

So what is the official hive mind take on Dee?

Shun him forever?

This will blow over in a few days and everyone will forget. This isn't like he went full JKR

VeggetaX posted...

I'm picking the side who is more morally correct. Guys, please let me know who it is.

ooof, got eem

Today's activists definitely need to learn nuance. Living with extremist you-are-with-or against-us-views only ends up hurting their own causes, and is not good for anyone. That's what frustrates me about them.

Lil_Bit83 posted...

Today's activists definitely need to learn nuance. Living with extremist you-are-with-or against-us-views only ends up hurting their own causes, and is not good for anyone. That's what frustrates me about them.

Yeah. Contrapoints in one of her videos says that the trans community shouldn't alienate transmedicalists because when "they" come for "the transgender" they're not going to make any distinction between a transmedicalist and more inclusive member of the community.

And IMO transmedicalism is a more extreme stance than what Dee Snider said.

I think Stanley and Dee are misguided here and I also think that the backlash they are getting isn't helping anybody. There's a time and place to cut ties with someone and a time for polite but firm correction. This is the latter.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Yeah. Contrapoints in one of her videos says that the trans community shouldn't alienate transmedicalists because when "they" come for "the transgender" they're not going to make any distinction between a transmedicalist and more inclusive member of the community.

And IMO transmedicalism is a more extreme stance than what Dee Snider said.

Contrapoints also called Vaush an enemy of Trans people which was a scumbag move on her part.

I mean on its face the idea that "kids shouldnt make life-changing decisions that theyve yet to fully grasp the meaning/importance of" isnt bad, but as far as Im aware, no kid *is* making any decision of that magnitude. I thought for kids that young they just do therapy and maybe a "social" transition, with puberty blockers that dont cause any harm and are completely reversible if they change their mind.

...what exactly does he think is happening? Does he think that people are bussing 5 year olds to hospitals for SRS just because Tommy wore a princess dress one time?

This seems like a problem people make up in their heads and feel the need to voice their "moderate" opinion on. >_>

I don't know much about this, but from what I do know, I agree with much of what he stands for and it seemed to me like he was just quick to believe bullshit and responded to it haphazardly.

He's generally one of the "good" celebrities to come out of donald's apprentice shit (such as Joan Rivers, Tom Green, Aubrey O'Day, Penn Gillette, etc., not the ones that left the show supporting donald like Herschel Walker, Gary Busey, Arsenio Hall, Trace Adkins, Meatloaf, etc.)

But this is a really bad look, especially since he was very outspokenly supportive of drag shows. It suggests he said dumb shit without thinking it through in response to someone else. I'm not gonna condemn him, but he's on notice with me until and I understand more.

ForsakenHermit posted...

Contrapoints also called Vaush an enemy of Trans people which was a scumbag move on her part.

I dunno if enemy is the right word but the dude is definitely a racist grifter and people don't need allies like him.

wackyteen posted...

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3991724-so-i-hear-im-transphobic-dee-snider-responds-after-being-dropped-by-sf-pride/

Yes, attacking a vocal, long time supporter because they dare to suggest nuance is always a smart idea (/s)

CommonStar posted...

Goddamn. So many people fall for the lies about gender affirming care with children. The kids that regret and or detransition only make up something like 1% of the trans youth population. Maybe he's still an ally, but he fell for the "think of the kids" bullshit and supported a clearly transphobic statement.

This. Plus recent studies have shown that if someone wanted to detransition it is easy and safe to do so

I mean, his response shows they were right to drop him

Not like hes being canceled or whatever. Hes just not performing at an event for the people his statement will negatively affect

Lil_Bit83 posted...

Today's activists definitely need to learn nuance. Living with extremist you-are-with-or against-us-views only ends up hurting their own causes, and is not good for anyone. That's what frustrates me about them.

100%

Shoving away any kind of support, even if it's not entirely in line with your beliefs, makes no sense. "My way or no way" is very evangelist and why a lot of people don't like Christianity.

Tyranthraxus posted...

That seems pretty harsh. Dee has been a strong and vocal supporter from the beginning and was doing drag back when not just before it was cool but when it was extremely uncool.

This. I mean, Dee Snider supported LGBTQ when doing so would get you treated how people treat MAGA today. But now that it's the mainstream/easy thing to do people who never actually had to be challenged for holding these beliefs are shitting on him for speaking his mind on something he's likely very knowledgeable about.

I don't agree with him, but it's pretty whacky to turn on someone who is part of the reason you can hold these views without being ridiculed.

ignorance and arrogance go hand in hand. he said something dumb and hurtful, and was rightfully chastised for it. and, because his ego apparently couldn't handle such a beating, instead of learning why what he said was dumb and hurtful, he lashed out at the people he thinks wronged him instead of apologizing to those he wronged.

MabusIncarnate posted...

100%

Shoving away any kind of support, even if it's not entirely in line with your beliefs, makes no sense. "My way or no way" is very evangelist and why a lot of people don't like Christianity.

Ok but the thing that he shared here is the very specific line of attack that conservatives are using to target transgender people right now

its not just he doesnt agree with us

TheGoldenEel posted...

Ok but the thing that he shared here is the very specific line of attack that conservatives are using to target transgender people right now

its not just he doesnt agree with us

People can believe the same thing for different reasons, what matters is the context of those beliefs. He's obviously not using it to drum up any anti-trans sentiment, so why is the move to immediately say "fuck this guy" rather than "okay, I get you, but here's why you're mistaken"

ArchNemo posted...

People can believe the same thing for different reasons, what matters is the context of those beliefs. He's obviously not using it to drum up any anti-trans sentiment, so why is the move to immediately say "fuck this guy" rather than "okay, I get you, but here's why you're mistaken"

Probably lgbt people tired of hearing right wing rhetoric coming from left wing mouths

ArchNemo posted...

People can believe the same thing for different reasons, what matters is the context of those beliefs. He's obviously not using it to drum up any anti-trans sentiment, so why is the move to immediately say "fuck this guy" rather than "okay, I get you, but here's why you're mistaken"

But it's also kinda tricky to have a guy who currently has controversy with remarks to trans issues perform in a Pride event. There's no good answer for a situation like this. He's there to perform not have a debate or conversation.

The ideas that Dee is using are people use to stop people from getting care. Like that might not be what he was aiming for. But that idea literally is what fuels what FL and many other states are doing to trans people.

How about if someone was a gay rights ally. And said..they support all gays rights and their gay friends. But then said while they support them, just a few them are acting gay for attention. This basically what Dee is saying here with trans people.

MaxEffingBemis posted...

Probably lgbt people tired of hearing right wing rhetoric coming from left wing mouths

Just because the right chooses to use concerns people might genuinely have to drum up hatred doesn't mean those concerns are completely invalid. I mean, people act like the idea of gender fluidity as a common, accepted thing isn't basically an unprecedented event in history and that people, especially older people, are going to have questions and concerns with it. Yet they choose to meet those concerns, even from people who have been lifelong allies, with "because we said so bigot, now fuck off you're off the team"

Punished_Blinx posted...

But it's also kinda tricky to have a guy who currently has controversy with remarks to trans issues perform in a Pride event. There's no good answer for a situation like this. He's there to perform not have a debate or conversation.

Well, in the context of the event that's fair.

cjsdowg posted...

The ideas that Dee is using are people use to stop people from getting care. Like that might not be what he was aiming for. But that idea literally is what fuels what FL and many other states are doing to trans people.

How about if someone was a gay rights ally. And said..they support all gays rights and their gay friends. But then said while they support them, just a few them are acting gay for attention. This basically what Dee is saying here with trans people.

I don't think anyone is saying what he said isn't wrong just that there's an unreasonable amount of purity testing being applied here.

People are hurt, people are tired of hearing this shit. I get it I really do, I just don't see how this helps anyone. It is sending a message that any celebrity who wants to support the cause must walk on eggshells.

Tyranthraxus posted...

I don't think anyone is saying what he said isn't wrong just that there's an unreasonable amount of purity testing being applied here.

People are hurt, people are tired of hearing this shit. I get it I really do, I just don't see how this helps anyone. It is sending a message that any celebrity who wants to support the cause must walk on eggshells.

Because the event in question is pride

its right there in the name, its meant to be a joyous event away from all the bullshit.

hes welcome to support the cause, hes just no longer being invited to perform at the pride event

Wow didnt know he was a fascist

I really don't see how he's wrong here or why he's being condemned.

cjsdowg posted...

The ideas that Dee is using are people use to stop people from getting care. Like that might not be what he was aiming for. But that idea literally is what fuels what FL and many other states are doing to trans people.

How about if someone was a gay rights ally. And said..they support all gays rights and their gay friends. But then said while they support them, just a few them are acting gay for attention. This basically what Dee is saying here with trans people.

See, I read it more as "Just because your child shows interest in *thing* (he used to 'feel pretty') doesn't mean you need to full send them into the culture surrounding the thing". If his parents had heard he 'felt pretty' and assumed he wanted to be/look like a girl, that would've been the rash decision he talks about.

I read it more as being concerned that well-meaning parents ('glad my parents didn't make rash decisions') will push their child into a culture or lifestyle instead of letting their child be a child.

Obviously if your child has shown repeated patterns of (dis)interest in something or has outright stated "I (don't) feel like X or Y" then you should listen to that.

Dee's comments aren't irrational and I don't think they're inherently harmful. Saying parents shouldn't make rash decisions is fair.

You could literally say the same thing to parents who knee-jerk against their child showing any interest in opposite gender stuff. Tell them to not be rash (because the overbearing response could manifest what the parents fear).

wackyteen posted...

See, I read it more as "Just because your child shows interest in *thing* (he used to 'feel pretty') doesn't mean you need to full send them into the culture surrounding the thing". If his parents had heard he 'felt pretty' and assumed he wanted to be/look like a girl, that would've been the rash decision he talks about.

I read it more as being concerned that well-meaning parents ('glad my parents didn't make rash decisions') will push their child into a culture or lifestyle instead of letting their child be a child.

Obviously if your child has shown repeated patterns of (dis)interest in something or has outright stated "I (don't) feel like X or Y" then you should listen to that.

Dee's comments aren't irrational and I don't think they're inherently harmful. Saying parents shouldn't make rash decisions is fair.

You could literally say the same thing to parents who knee-jerk against their child showing any interest in opposite gender stuff. Tell them to not be rash (because the overbearing response could manifest what the parents fear).

This is how I read it too.

Lil_Bit83 posted...

Today's activists definitely need to learn nuance. Living with extremist you-are-with-or against-us-views only ends up hurting their own causes, and is not good for anyone. That's what frustrates me about them.

Well, since the right has no interest in learning nuance, and is merely interested in stripping trans people of their bodily autonomy, painting them as child groomers and pedophiles, and is actively trying to legislate them out of existence while promoting violence against them, I'd have to say that maybe the onus to change doesn't lie with the trans community.

you can't talk someone into being trans. full fucking stop.
you can't talk someone out of being trans. full fucking stop.
trans people don't decide to be trans. full fucking stop.
cis people don't decide not to be trans. full fucking stop.

his statements show a complete non understanding of the conversation, and were justifiably called out. he chose to whine about being corrected rather than correct his ignorance, and he's being justifiably called out for that, too.

literally all he has to do is take one single step back, self-reflect, and apologize. him seemingly being unwilling to do so says more than the ignorant moment that got him here in the first place.

He's not reacting well to valid criticism and is parroting right wing talking points in both what he initially said and his response to criticism.

Framing human rights and healthcare as an "ideology" that demands fealty rather than accepting that you are playing into fearmongering and revising your views, then urging people who are being targeted by the state to be more "moderate" is not the way.

This is some real white moderate shit from him, and past activism doesn't get you a free pass on this stuff. I don't think he's intentionally being transphobic, he's just being a boomer.

mybbqrules posted...

Well, since the right has no interest in learning nuance, and is merely interested in stripping trans people of their bodily autonomy, painting them as child groomers and pedophiles, and is actively trying to legislate them out of existence while promoting violence against them, I'd have to say that maybe the onus to change doesn't lie with the trans community.

But the trans community does not benefit itself when it runs non-trans people, who otherwise support the community, off for not being as dogmatic in their beliefs as the most ardent of the trans community.

The trans community must be seen as a community of acceptance if it is to survive. It cannot be allowed to be viewed as intolerant because the truly intolerant that want to Genocide the community, will point and go 'See! They run off even lifelong supporters! There's no reasoning with these people who *insert transphobic rhetoric*! We must eradicate them for the safety of our children!'

wackyteen posted...

If his parents had heard he 'felt pretty' and assumed he wanted to be/look like a girl, that would've been the rash decision he talks about.

Except that's not how it works at all. The kids that transition go through a rigorous process and have many discussions/evaluations with their doctors and parents.

The problem with this clever rhetoric is that it makes the "issue" seem way bigger than it is when actually it only happens to less than 1% of the trans youth and ignores the bigger population that go on to live a happy life. It also disregards the long process these kids go through before transitioning and acts as though its a rash decision. Gender affirming care is fucking life saving care for a lot of these kids.

https://youtu.be/nRB8Jor8tPs

mybbqrules posted...

Well, since the right has no interest in learning nuance

This has nothing to do with the right, this is about ridiculous purity standards that paint long time allies as enemies for one perceived misstep.