Current Events > Dee Snider has been informed that he is Transphobic, dropped by SF Pride

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jagr_68 posted...

At last transphobia has finally been defeated now that Dee Snider has been banished to the shadow realm for **checks notes* umm, supporting a personal friend who threw out a bad take on the internet and nothing more.

Good job

TIL no one on planet Earth can be negatively criticized for anything they do if doing so won't rid the concept of evil from the world.

meanwhile theres plastic in our blood

Tenlaar posted...

This has nothing to do with the right, this is about ridiculous purity standards that paint long time allies as enemies for one perceived misstep.

Oh look Tenlaar is JAQing off again

hockeybub89 posted...

Oh look Tenlaar is JAQing off again

What question are you under the impression I asked?

CommonStar posted...

Except that's not how it works at all. The kids that transition go through a rigorous process and have many discussions/evaluations with their doctors and parents.

The problem with this clever rhetoric is that it makes the "issue" seem way bigger than it is when actually it only happens to less than 1% of the trans youth and ignores the bigger population that go on to live a happy life. It also disregards the long process these kids go through before transitioning and acts as though its a rash decision. Gender affirming care is fucking life saving care for a lot of these kids.

Of course that's not the full story of how it works, but instead of attacking someone for not knowing, you can show them why their concerns are misplaced.

Dee is also only speaking from his own experience of childhood. You can see how he got to the conclusion and reasoning that he did. Knowing that, one should be able to explain how that is not the case.

I liked that part of a post that said he doesn't seem to be transphobic, he's just being a boomer.

Sounds like everyones an asshole

It's wild how hyper partisan everything has become. Agreeing on 99 out 100 things isn't good enough.

wackyteen posted...

See, I read it more as "Just because your child shows interest in *thing* (he used to 'feel pretty') doesn't mean you need to full send them into the culture surrounding the thing". If his parents had heard he 'felt pretty' and assumed he wanted to be/look like a girl, that would've been the rash decision he talks about.

I read it more as being concerned that well-meaning parents ('glad my parents didn't make rash decisions') will push their child into a culture or lifestyle instead of letting their child be a child.

The problem is that despite him approaching the argument from an area of concern instead of from malice like the people usually making that argument, it's still the same argument.

First off, it's been shown to not reflect the reality of the situation in the least, so there is no need to bring it up.

Second, when Dee (who proclaimed himself a lifelong ally) saw that his erstwhile allies reacted poorly to those arguments, the best course of action is to find out why, not say "yeah well maybe they have a point."

He's not being tarred and feathered, he's just not performing at the event anymore, no different than any big-name performer would be dropped from an event in the wake of controversy connected to said event.

Tenlaar posted...

This has nothing to do with the right, this is about ridiculous purity standards that paint long time allies as enemies for one perceived misstep.

The right: *literally wants to eradicate trans people from society*

The trans community: *responds with a "with us or against us" attitude, since they're...you know...fighting for their very rights and survival*

Rocket scientists like Tenlaar: "LoOk aT hOw iNToLeRaNT tHE tRaNs cOmMUniTy iS!"

And it has everything to do with the right.

If the right would leave these fucking people alone to live their lives instead of (it bears repeating) literally trying to legislate them out of existence while painting them as groomers and pedophiles which encourages their unhinged, gun-humping base into violence against them, there wouldn't be any need for an "us vs them" attitude, would there?

"One perceived misstep" can mean a lot when you're fighting for your very existence. Maybe Dee and the other gentleman should have chosen their words more carefully.

candyapplered posted...

It's wild how hyper partisan everything has become. Agreeing on 99 out 100 things isn't good enough.

You still an anti-vaxxer?

wackyteen posted...

Of course that's not the full story of how it works, but instead of attacking someone for not knowing, you can show them why their concerns are misplaced.

Dee is also only speaking from his own experience of childhood. You can see how he got to the conclusion and reasoning that he did. Knowing that, one should be able to explain how that is not the case.

I liked that part of a post that said he doesn't seem to be transphobic, he's just being a boomer.

He didn't have to double down though. For someone that's supported the LGBTQ+ community for so long, wish he was more charitable towards understanding the anger. In a time where the trans community is constantly being attacked and constantly having their rights stripped, it is completely understandable for them to be very sensitive.

His responding statement makes it seem like the trans activists are being unreasonable when he doesn't seem to understand that that rhetoric is what's fueling all these awful legislations that are trying to wipe their existence. He's probably still an ally, but by doubling down he created this situation where now you have people shitting on trans people for reacting and talking about purity tests knowingly or unknowingly giving fuel to the anti-trans crowd.

The people who declared Snider and Stanley transphobic for the totally milquetoast views they expressed have lost their goddamn minds.

Btw he wasn't dropped. It was a mutual decision between him and the org.
https://twitter.com/deesnider/status/1654854921295134726

CommonStar posted...

He didn't have to double down though. For someone that's supported the LGBTQ+ community for so long, wish he was more charitable towards understanding the anger. In a time where the trans community is constantly being attacked and constantly having their rights stripped, it is completely understandable for them to be very sensitive.

His responding statement makes it seem like the trans activists are being unreasonable when he doesn't seem to understand that that rhetoric is what's fueling all these awful legislations that are trying to wipe their existence. He's probably still an ally, but by doubling down he created this situation where now you have people shitting on trans people for reacting and talking about purity tests knowingly or unknowingly giving fuel to the anti-trans crowd.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what he said here but both him and Paul didn't look like they doubled down, it looks to me more like they actually walked back their statements partially presenting a far more charitable opinion than before. Dee Snider went from, essentially, "thank goodness my parents didn't trick me into thinking I'm trans" to "parents must be supportive and accepting of whatever their children decide but [children younger than unspecified ages] cannot make that decision for themselves."

Ignorant statement still for sure but still better than what he originally presented.

"Hey Dee, guess what?"

"What?"

"You're transphobic now!"

"What?"

candyapplered posted...

You still want to lower the age of consent? Sorry but not sorry I don't agree with you on that, stalker.

Lmao, what the hell are you talking about?

And yeah, tagging you is totally "stalking".

candyapplered posted...

You still want to lower the age of consent? Sorry but not sorry I don't agree with you on that, stalker.

Whoa. Did he really say that?

candyapplered posted...

backpedaling, groomer?

I'm sure you have some evidence to back this up then?

candyapplered posted...

So you're no longer in favor of it? Good news!

I see all this talking, but I'm still not seeing any evidence.

mybbqrules posted...

I see all this talking, but I'm still not seeing any evidence.

He's warned now.

Acts like these do more harm than good.

Dee rocks

St0rmFury posted...

He's warned now.

Well maybe when he comes back he'll post his evidence. I'll update his tag so I can remind him.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Think you got Dee confused with Paul. Dee explicitly said parents need to be accepting and supportive of their trans children.

We can't even like twisted sister anymore. Fuck that.

I have no issue with individuals for being trans. However, the trans community has always come across as really hostile and toxic.

Dont get me wrong, I understand that these are people who have faced and continue to face all manner of hardship, and that changes their perception of the world. I also understand that a good chunk of the hostility is aimed towards people and organisations that absolutely deserve it.

I just dont think that means that we should pretend the trans community (obviously not all trans people) are in the right when they direct that anger at the wrong person, which I feel has happened here.

Glob posted...

I just dont think that means that we should pretend the trans community (obviously not all trans people) are in the right when they direct that anger at the wrong person, which I feel has happened here.

If someone said "I do not believe young children are ready to decide their gender allocation." And so many trans people and so much data suggested that this just isn't true how are they directing anger at the wrong person?

The problem is that people seem to form these dumb opinions about trans people for the sake of "THE CHILDREN"

An actual ally would listen to the experiences of actual trans people instead of repeating idiotic rhetoric put forth by people who want them gone. Like no shit they're hostile, they're sick of this crap

Scintillant posted...

An actual ally would listen to the experiences of actual trans people instead of repeating idiotic rhetoric put forth by people who want them gone. Like no shit they're hostile, they're sick of this crap

This is the last statement chronologically made by Dee Snider on this issue:

He did say he will continue to support the transgender community no matter how they feel about him, adding, I am open to educating myself so I can be a better ally.

Of course you'd have to actually read the topic to find it.

Tyranthraxus posted...

This is the last statement chronologically made by Dee Snider on this issue:

Of course you'd have to actually read the topic to find it.

It's from the same interview.

Snider said in his statement he believes young children arent mentally developed enough to make such drastic decisions about gender affirming care that could affect the rest of their lives. He did say he will continue to support the transgender community no matter how they feel about him, adding, I am open to educating myself so I can be a better ally.

Scintillant posted...

It's from the same interview.

Yes. I am failing to see what the issue is. We already know the first part is how he feels now. It's ignorant. The main ignorant part being that children aren't making those decisions. They're being made with the consultation and oversight of medical health professionals.

But if an ignorant person is open to learning more, then he won't always feel that way. You say he should listen but listening is something uneducated people need to do. Someone who already knows everything wouldn't have made that mistake in the first place and wouldn't need a lecture on why transgender youth isn't a dangerous fad.

And he remains having a positive collaborative relationship with the organizers of the pride event. That really ought to be enough to tell you he's genuine and eager about wanting to improve.

The problem with the genuine concern crowd is that they want to worry about something incredibly rare that already has safeguards in place to address. And when presented with this information, they just go "But that would be bad though if it happened!" Sure, but a lot of crazy things that happen once in a while would be bad. The education is out there, but they'd rather tell trans people, doctors and allies what the real problems are with gender-affirming care. You get the same thing with the bathroom bills, or vaccine hesitancy. It's kind of like saying just because people have their hearts in the right place doesn't mean they should ignore the very real issue of video game addiction.

And Dee wasn't executed. He got called out for saying something ignorant to defend something ignorant and mutually came to an agreement with an organization he is still on good terms with. But chuds in this topic immediately jumped to "OMG you can't say one logical thing against the hivemind without being branded worse than Hitler and having your life ruined forever. You have to fall in lockstep or else! This will hurt the trans agenda in the end!"

hockeybub89 posted...

The problem with the genuine concern crowd is that they want to worry about something incredibly rare that already has safeguards in place to address. And when presented with this information, they just go "But that would be bad though if it happened!" Sure, but a lot of crazy things that happen once in a while would be bad. The education is out there, but they'd rather tell trans people, doctors and allies what the real problems are with gender-affirming care. You get the same thing with the bathroom bills, or vaccine hesitancy. It's kind of like saying just because people have their hearts in the right place doesn't mean they should ignore the very real issue of video game addiction.

And Dee wasn't executed. He got called out for saying something ignorant to defend something ignorant and mutually came to an agreement with an organization he is still on good terms with. But chuds in this topic immediately jumped to "OMG you can't say one logical thing against the hivemind without being branded worse than Hitler and having your life ruined forever. You have to fall in lockstep or else! This will hurt the trans agenda in the end!"

This makes a lot of sense

FigureOfSpeech posted...

This makes a lot of sense

Thanks. And one thing I meant to include there was the concern over reassignment surgery. You always hear "Kids shouldn't be getting their genitals cut off before they even hit puberty!" Those people are absolutely correct, but they are making up a problem that doesn't exist. And whether or not they mean to, they are reinforcing a common anti-trans sticking point: that parents and doctors are putting small children under the knife because they did something non-gender-conforming. The anti-trans crowd wants to get people ignorant on the issue to agree on such a "common sense" concern so they can go: "See? See? It's not just us who think that's wrong!"

He needed education, rather than condemnation, I feel.

He had otherwise been a long time supporter, so better to just point out to him how he's being 'taken advantage of' and being misled under the guise of 'protecting children'

How easily you are shunned for stepping so slightly out of line

I think aligning so hard with cancel culture is gonna end up hurting the movement in the long run