Poll of the Day > School shootings are so common in the US that Virginia school board is arguing

(+) Yeah! (+)

that staff who are victims of school shootings should be considered for worker's comp, instead of seeking large payouts from lawsuits

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/04/28/newport-news-district-wants-workers-comp-teacher-shot-6-year-old/11762263002/

It's just part of the job and a regular work hazard, right?

Texas wants to train kids in treating gunshot wounds.

This country is beyond fucked.

It Has To Be This Way
-metal gear rising, but also the united states

I'm particularly bothered by the district's insistence that they can't be held liable for gross negligence because assaults by students are inevitable. There have been several steps identified here were the district could have done more and chose not to. This is entirely analogous to a factory identifying that one of their high-temperature steam tanks had a structural flaw in it, choosing not to repair that flaw, then when that tank exploded and killed somebody trying to foist that off on worker's comp instead of accepting responsibility for fixing the problem.

Yes, worker's comp exists to protect employers from lawsuits due to work hazards, but it doesn't completely absolve the employer from making efforts to control those hazards. They still have a responsibility to provide a safe workplace.

so they get hazard pay, right?

Texas wants to teach 8 year olds gunshot triage

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/texas-bill-proposes-bleeding-stations-in-schools-therapist-warns-of-mental-health-impacts

School shootings are far from common, and it's dumb to pretend that they are. There were 46 school shootings in 2022, and over 130,000 schools in the US. For comparison, the odds of getting struck by lightning are 1 in 15,300. It's just dramatically over sensationalized. They peddle irrational fear, and people just gobble it up.

Ozmose posted...

School shootings are far from common, and it's dumb to pretend that they are. There were 46 school shootings in 2022, and over 130,000 schools in the US. For comparison, the odds of getting struck by lightning are 1 in 15,300. It's just dramatically over sensationalized. They peddle irrational fear, and people just gobble it up.

"It's okay guys, there were only 46 instances of children being massacred in large numbers last year!"

Is any given child likely to be killed in a school shooting? No. Does it still happen far, far too often? Absolutely. As such, everyone with the power to reduce the rate at which it happens needs to be held responsible for doing so.

Oh look, the snowflake is posting bullshit again

i work for a county government in texas and found it sad and hilarious that they offer insurance for if I get shot.

the fuck is wrong with this state and country

Ozmose posted...

School shootings are far from common, and it's dumb to pretend that they are. There were 46 school shootings in 2022, and over 130,000 schools in the US. For comparison, the odds of getting struck by lightning are 1 in 15,300. It's just dramatically over sensationalized. They peddle irrational fear, and people just gobble it up.

Its okay because for any given week school is in session, 2 or 3 massacres occur!!!!1!! You are fucking sick.

sodium-chloride posted...

i work for a county government in texas and found it sad and hilarious that they offer insurance for if I get shot.

the fuck is wrong with this state and country

They want everyone to be armed at all times. They want the wild west. Because they're too fucking stupid to understand that deterrence doesn't apply to individuals.

Deterrence works BECAUSE it doesn't apply to individuals. No country puts their nuclear arsenal in the hands of one person. There is no "big red button." A nuclear holocaust isn't going to happen because one person had a bad day, drank too much, or forgot to take their meds.

Let's say everyone is armed at all times. What happens when some nutjob shoots someone, and their target shoots back? What are onlookers supposed to do? How do they know which is the criminal and which is the "good guy" with a gun? When one guy gets shot, how are you going to regard the last man standing? Are you going to risk your life and make sure he's not gonna shoot you, or shoot him because he could be a threat?

Zareth posted...

Oh look, the snowflake is posting bullshit again

Dumb bullshit, at that!

I wouldn't know, but it always is

adjl posted...

"It's okay guys, there were only 46 instances of children being massacred in large numbers last year!"

Is any given child likely to be killed in a school shooting? No. Does it still happen far, far too often? Absolutely. As such, everyone with the power to reduce the rate at which it happens needs to be held responsible for doing so.

I call bullshit that every single one of them led to a massacre.

How many children need to die before you give a shit, Rev?

Zareth posted...

How many children need to die before you give a shit, Rev?

I was only responding to the massacre part.

rev should be locked up in a lab and studied. A truly fascinating specimen.

Is rev talking to someone who blocked me? Because honestly I only see one post from him and it's fucked up with no context.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Is rev talking to someone who blocked me? Because honestly I only see one post from him and it's fucked up with no context.

adjl or Zareth. Ozmose in the original quote chain but you should still be able to see it when I quoted adjl.

Ozmose posted...

School shootings are far from common, and it's dumb to pretend that they are. There were 46 school shootings in 2022, and over 130,000 schools in the US. For comparison, the odds of getting struck by lightning are 1 in 15,300. It's just dramatically over sensationalized. They peddle irrational fear, and people just gobble it up.

*Redacted*

It's Ozmose. It always is.

Triggered by a few facts that prove you're over exaggerating the commonality of a very rare event. Can't say I'm surprised, and by people that accuse me of fear mongering at that. Sorry, but you're never going to get the bubble wrapped world you want, where the terrible scary things have been completely eliminated. You will however manage to create a dystopia in the attempt to do so.

Approximately 1000 children a year have been killed or injured by guns over the past 3 years. That's just counting kids 11 and under.

Add children 12-17 and that figure jumps to roughly 5500 children killed or injured by guns per year.

How many need to suffer before it's "enough" to enact some measure of gun reform?

It's beyond sad how so many support this level of violence in order to maintain the status quo. The lack of compassion is disgusting.

Ozmose posted...

Sorry, but you're never going to get the bubble wrapped world you want, where the terrible scary things have been completely eliminated. You will however manage to create a dystopia in the attempt to do so.

So every other developed country in the world that manages to have significantly fewer children murdered in their classrooms is dystopian?

And you accuse others of "fearmongering"...

Thousands of children getting shot every year is "fearmongering" lmao what an astonishingly stupid point of view

He's not wrong that the likelihood of any given child being shot isn't overly high in an absolute sense, which means that worrying about it on an individual level isn't altogether necessary, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem or that the situation can't/shouldn't be improved.

adjl posted...

He's not wrong that the likelihood of any given child being shot isn't overly high in an absolute sense, which means that worrying about it on an individual level isn't altogether necessary, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem or that the situation can't/shouldn't be improved.

What a brain dead take. Maybe if we all worried about this as individuals instead of handwaving it with usual "Oh, itllnever happen near me" attitudes jerks like you have then many, MAYBE, fewer children would die. You ass.

adjl posted...

So every other developed country in the world that manages to have significantly fewer children murdered in their classrooms is dystopian?

And you accuse others of "fearmongering"...

What I'm saying, is that there's not a single law you can pass that could stop it, and little to no evidence they would even reduce it. The measures it would take to stop it would be absolutely dystopian. You don't want to get into comparing us to other countries. There are so many differing factors, it's a pointless argument.

Ozmose posted...

What I'm saying, is that there's not a single law you can pass that could stop it

Then pass multiple laws, or a comprehensive package of laws.

and little to no evidence they would even reduce it.

False. There is plenty of evidence that gun control reduces violent gun-related crime.

The measures it would take to stop it would be absolutely dystopian.

How so? More dystopian than openly endorsing children being murdered rather than giving up a little ground on reform?

You don't want to get into comparing us to other countries.

Why not? Not everything needs to mirror the US 1:1 for us to research and evaluate how other countries handle the issue, and determine whether we can adopt some of those approaches or modify some of those policies to fit our needs.

There are so many differing factors, it's a pointless argument.

It's pointless to try to figure out a way to both keep children from being shot en masse while preserving the rights afforded us by the Constitution?

This is no easy task, but it is not an impossible task. It will take a considerable amount of legislating and reform and communication and outreach, but it can be done.

Nothing will be done as long as people continue to hold on to the ignorant and outdated ideas espoused by groups like the NRA, however.

Ozmose posted...

What I'm saying, is that there's not a single law you can pass that could stop it, and little to no evidence they would even reduce it. The measures it would take to stop it would be absolutely dystopian. You don't want to get into comparing us to other countries. There are so many differing factors, it's a pointless argument.

So, we should do nothing? Just let people shoot others where/when they want, and face no consequences for it? >_>

b_hamnite posted...

What a brain dead take. Maybe if we all worried about this as individuals instead of handwaving it with usual "Oh, itllnever happen near me" attitudes jerks like you have then many, MAYBE, fewer children would die. You ass.

adjl posted...

that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem or that the situation can't/shouldn't be improved.

Preaching to the choir, my man.

Ozmose posted...

The measures it would take to stop it would be absolutely dystopian.

• Require a recent safety certification, comprehensive background check, and recent mental health screening prior to all gun sales (this can all be rolled up into a licensing process to ease the strain on sellers)
• Compile and maintain a comprehensive registry of all guns purchased and their owners (in a useful, computerized database, not the deliberately-hobbled microfilm nonsense the NRA insists is the most that can be allowed), which must be updated within 24 hours of the sale of any gun
• Institute a mandatory two-week waiting period on all gun sales
• Require all guns to be stored in a manner that prevents them from being accessed by anyone that is not the registered owner, except when in use.
• Require ammunition to be stored separately, with the same restrictions. Prohibit the sale of ammunition to anyone that does not have a compatible gun registered
• Require gun owners to report the theft of their registered guns within 24 hours of discovering it
• If a gun is used to commit a crime and has not been reported stolen, charge the most recent registered owner with negligence and revoke their license

Most of these are things that responsible, competent gun owners already do. You yourself said that you keep your guns in a 600 lb safe that only you can access when you aren't using them, which just makes sense. The vast, vast majority of guns used in school and other mass shootings were either stolen from a parent who didn't secure them properly, purchased shortly before the shooting, or purchased by people that had exhibited enough mental health red flags prior to the shooting that screening their mental health prior to the purchase would likely have blocked it. You're never going to stop it completely, obviously, but that doesn't mean the situation can't be improved significantly.

Ozmose posted...

You don't want to get into comparing us to other countries. There are so many differing factors, it's a pointless argument.

All of those different factors boil down to the simple fact that the culture Americans have built up around guns is dangerous, no matter how much you'd like to handwave away the massive discrepancies between American violent crime rates and those of other developed countries. Maybe that culture could be safe if other factors weren't what they are, but the inescapable fact of the matter is that it's not. Something has to change, and if you're going to insist that it shouldn't be the guns (which have an obvious causal link to gun crime and which can be addressed in very straightforward ways), you need to start providing alternatives instead of trying to convince people that 5500 children getting shot every year is okay.

Grendel_Prime posted...

Approximately 1000 children a year have been killed or injured by guns over the past 3 years. That's just counting kids 11 and under.

Add children 12-17 and that figure jumps to roughly 5500 children killed or injured by guns per <u>year</u>.

How many need to suffer before it's "enough" to enact some measure of gun reform?

It's beyond sad how so many support this level of violence in order to maintain the status quo. The lack of compassion is disgusting.

Why are you stating those numbers like they were from school shootings only?

Revelation34 posted...

Why are you stating those numbers like they were from school shootings only?

Where did I state that the statistic is referring solely to school shootings? I didn't link it to schools at all. I gave a general statistic.

Aside from that, what does it matter? Gun violence needs to be reined in across the board, not only in schools.

So apparently you can get modded for posting will documented statistics now. You either feed the narrative around here or get silenced. This place is a disgrace.

Ozmose posted...

So apparently you can get modded for posting will documented statistics now. You either feed the narrative around here or get silenced. This place is a disgrace.

leave then

Ozmose posted...

So apparently you can get modded for posting will documented statistics now. You either feed the narrative around here or get silenced. This place is a disgrace.

*Redacted*

Ozmose posted...

So apparently you can get modded for posting will documented statistics now. You either feed the narrative around here or get silenced. This place is a disgrace.

You can argue whether it's justified or not, but you weren't modded for posting statistics, you were modded for the context of your post that was around your statistics. And that you even push such an argument shows that you're probably posting in bad faith.

Also, based on your original post, that means you're for the woman winning the lawsuit then? Since what you're trying to argue was essentially one of her two points.

Ozmose posted...

So apparently you can get modded for posting will documented statistics now. You either feed the narrative around here or get silenced. This place is a disgrace.

Others have posted well-documented statistics itt and haven't been modded... Strange how do you think they pulled it off?!

Perhaps it's not what you posted, but rather how you worded it

But sure, you're a victim could you be any more of a caricature lmao

Ozmose posted...

So apparently you can get modded for posting will documented statistics now. You either feed the narrative around here or get silenced. This place is a disgrace.

In this case, "the narrative" roughly amounts to "kids being murdered is bad," and I'm honestly pretty okay with getting rid of people who don't agree with that. Why aren't you?

To clarify, you didn't get modded for posting statistics. You got modded for saying that a bunch of kids being murdered isn't a big deal. But then I'm almost completely certain you already understand this and you're just making a bad faith argument to portray yourself as a victim and score some sympathy points from the few people that can't be bothered to think about the issue at hand for more than three seconds.

Revelation34 posted...

adjl or Zareth. Ozmose in the original quote chain but you should still be able to see it when I quoted adjl.

I saw your post something about not every school shooting being a massacre or something? Like I said fucked up without context. All I can see on clicking the quote is Ozmose saying something fucked up himself, trying to argue school shootings aren't a problem. How has he not gotten banned yet?

BlackScythe0 posted...

I saw your post something about not every school shooting being a massacre or something? Like I said f***ed up without context.

Context doesn't help much. As usual, he's cherrypicked a small part of the post to fixate on and nitpick over while ignoring the larger picture. Which is why I just didn't bother responding.

I never disagreed that kids being murdered is bad. My argument was that it's so statistically rare that there's no need to live in fear over it. I'm not okay with lies, no matter how uncomfortable the truth makes you.
Not sure why I'm even posting this, everyone here seems to ignore what I'm actually saying and create their own imaginary conversation anyways.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

leave then

Why don't you leave? I was here long before you were.

Look how they massacred ma boi

Ozmose posted...

My argument was that it's so statistically rare that there's no need to live in fear over it.

Which you're then using as the basis for saying that nothing should be done to prevent kids being murdered. That's where people take issue, because that's obviously nonsense, but the fact that people continue to cling to it is preventing the problem from being solved and literally resulting in children being murdered.

It also doesn't help that your "statistical analysis" conspicuously leaves out any sort of comparison between the rate at which kids die to gun violence and the rates at which kids die of other causes. If we do that... well, I'll let the data speak for itself:

https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/

Oh look at that, guns were the #1 cause of death for minors in 2020, even managing to beat out car crashes (which are a major cause of mortality overall, and driving also needs some massive overhauls to improve safety all-around because vehicular mortality is also ridiculously high in the US). Per capita, American children are 7 times more likely to be killed by firearms than children in the next-highest peer country (Canada, whose gun problems largely spill over from how poorly-controlled guns are south of the border), or 19 times the average.

Now, does that mean that any individual child islikely to get shot? No. But that's entirely a reflection of the fact that any individual child isn't likely to die at all, not anything that suggests that guns aren't dangerous to children. To suggest that nothing should be done to address the leading cause of child mortality is utterly ludicrous. If anything, you should be thanking the mod in question for erasing the evidence that you said something so absurd.

Ozmose posted...

Not sure why I'm even posting this, everyone here seems to ignore what I'm actually saying and create their own imaginary conversation anyways.

See, you say this, but you came into this topic specifically to respond to everyone living in fear of having their kids be murdered, as opposed to the position people actually hold and are expressing: that too many kids are being murdered and something needs to be done to cut down on that number. You're not really in a position to criticize others (especially those are are literally responding to exactly what you said) for creating imaginary conversations.

Gotta love the projection there lolol

Revelation34 posted...

Ozmose in the original quote chain but you should still be able to see it when I quoted adjl.

I can't see it.

Zareth posted...

I can't see it.

If you click the quote it pops it up with the quoted message and you can see Ozmose say something I'm afraid to repeat because I think I might get modded for directly copy pasting it. He's basically just saying people who care about school shootings are fear mongering.

Where the initial post was modded, the quote-clicking workaround for being blocked won't work in this case. In a nutshell, he said "school shootings aren't that common, stop buying into the fearmongering." While he's not altogether wrong to point out that school shootings generate a disproportionate public response for the level of risk they actually present (any given child probably won't ever experience one), the fact that guns are the single greatest cause of death for minors means his position that there's no point doing anything about guns killing kids is largely trash.