Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 1: Space, The Final Frontier

(+) Yeah! (+)

Honestly, not claiming flavour makes me feel a little better about Sheep.

Coming back to see a whole page of posts about me fills me with...something
Determination perhaps?

Anyway Sheep even humoring a sametime claim at this stage just strikes me in a confusing way.
Thats not even half of a good idea.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Honestly, not claiming flavour makes me feel a little better about Sheep.

How so?

Oh and he claimed vanilla?
Now I really dont follow him anymore.

I'll just say this Sheep not claiming flavor is odd as town if he is legit a vanilla

Sheep007 posted... How come you didn't bring up that one thing that made you go "huh" until asked?

Sheep007 posted...

Yes. It's utterly vital.

For an entirely serious answer, I wanted to press him for answers without him feeling like I was incredibly suspicious of him because that gets some people to say a little more, and I'm happy to have gotten the info I got. He's definitely not at a stage where I'm wanting to kill him with fire or anything. I don't feel like voting him is gonna get me any new answers right now and I'll come back round nearer EoD if nobody else sticks out to me.

Sheep007 posted... I didn't take it as voicing suspicion either? I just find it strange that Sultan would not say anything about it at all and then mention it as the most noteworthy part of the game to him. You could well be right and it's just that he isn't fully in the game yet - I would hope that me actively trying to do things to get him to talk help with that!

Oh also. This is basically Sheep's entire progression on Sultan.

There's no fire here to kill it with. There's no committment. What info did this get that should make Sheep happy? Basically nothing happened.

Honestly the feeling I've had about Sheep for a while now is someone who seems disappointed to have rolled scum and is just trying to put up this image like he's actually trying to game solve where there's nothing there.

Ooh, this is eminently digestible, because I was also thinking about claiming on the first page. I'd even broach asking about a same time claim if I wasn't about to head off to bed.

This reads very little like someone who is town vanilla.

How would Ulti know Discord has been having issues unless he was also scum!? Or has other friends that he communicates with!? Suspicious.

I did a doubletake when I saw Wallmaster vote him, but he posted a paragraph about him in the next post so I guess it didn't come out of nowhere from him?

Just beat yakuza 7. So fucking good.

Sheep with the quick vanilla claim huh. I will let this play out.

More seriously Ulti, I reject the interpretation that I "backed down when pressed." I clearly stated my intention was not to claim. I just didn't engage with you fishing for more information.

Not claiming flavor is a bit weird sure but I think it's NAI.

He could have easily just waited claiming if it was because not being able to access a safe list, no way.

SirChris posted...

Just beat yakuza 7. So fucking good.

Sheep with the quick vanilla claim huh. I will let this play out.

Curious as to what you mean with 'play out'. But either way I do hope for more of your take on this eventually.

There are levels of wifom with not claiming flavor that I don't really care to get into in and of itself tbh

NAI means what again?

htaeD posted...

Curious as to what you mean with 'play out'. But either way I do hope for more of your take on this eventually.

You will find out

UltimaterializerX posted...

Reminder that Dumey also considered claiming first post, mentioned as much, and then backed down when pressed.

I still dont know what town role one would try that strategy with.

Dumey has been coy for.. Some reason. I think Sheep was trying to sound the same way but instead sounded forced.

Here's the progression though: Dumey immediately draws attention to himself for ??? reasons, then Sheep immediately ties himself to Dumey, starts buddying up to him ridiculously hard effectively without reasoning, and starts basing reads essentially off of him.

I feel like they're only both scum if they planned this before the game even started and essentially decided they would instantly sacrifice Sheep to make Dumey look better.

htaeD posted...

NAI means what again?

Not Alignment Indicative.

Oh I am curious too, as much as you can with my embarrassingly little knowledge of the flavor at least. Just don't think it matters.

I was wondering why some people suspected EDumey for being scum with Sheep when the arguments that they are not scum together seemed more sensible to me.

But I see the way EDumey unvoted Sheep now, and I dislike it. One part at least.

I can understand jumping onto a soft claim for fun as a Vanilla. The fact that it wasn't a more prepared role to get around potential watch/track options or something makes me more likely to believe it. I'm okay with this for the moment.

I feel like EDumey should at least have the mindset that even a nilla should not claim for no or little reason
In general I just think he backed off too easily.

Crescent-Moon posted...

Not Alignment Indicative.

Ah
Psh, just use nultell I say.

I do agree that all this talk about 'he wouldnt do that as scum' is meaningless to me.
Scum could and a lot of the time would.

htaeD posted...

Ah
Psh, just use nultell I say.

I do agree that all this talk about 'he wouldnt do that as scum' is meaningless to me.
Scum could and a lot of the time would.

No that's a real argument with real uses, it's just grossly overused and not applicable most of the time.

htaeD posted...

I feel like EDumey should at least have the mindset that even a nilla should not claim for no or little reason
In general I just think he backed off too easily.

Oh I agree that a vanilla should not claim for little no reason. But I think there is reason for vanilla's to project that they are power, and Sheep definitely did not expect to get 5 or 6 votes deep so early.

Assume this is Town Sheep and just ask yourself if this line is reasonable.

Cheeky soft claim play.
Gets more bad reactions than expected.
Tries to provide value by pressuring somewhere no one else was to generate more content.
Also backfires and garners more bad reactions.
Pulls the plug on the initial cheeky play since it obviously wasn't going to play out.

I think it comes down to this, the only reason for Town Vanilla Sheep to NOT claim after the amount of votes on them, is if they feel confident the votes will go away naturally. I think Sheep saw that and decided that trying to be stubborn (like I did last game) was worse than just getting it out of the way.

I stated my intention when I voted him was to get a claim. I got a claim. I will now step back to evaluate.

Dumey might be a dumb question but is their a reason you decided not to claim out the gate? Or thst you even mentioned it if you were not?

EDumey posted...

Oh I agree that a vanilla should not claim for little no reason. But I think there is reason for vanilla's to project that they are power, and Sheep definitely did not expect to get 5 or 6 votes deep so early.

Yeah but Sheep's post did not indicate power as much as it indicated some role that would make sense to get on the table immediately.

To be clear, there is definitely scum equity in getting to claim early before anyone else does with a non-offending role like Vanilla. This by no means exonerates Sheep. Just that I don't care to keep my vote on him.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

How so?

Scum come up with fake claims, and they like to give them. If he said "I'm Data, Town Vanilla. I'm vanilla because I have no emotions." then I'd have said to just lynch him there.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Dumey might be a dumb question but is their a reason you decided not to claim out the gate? Or thst you even mentioned it if you were not?

Dumb answer, yes, there is a reason.

If you're asking if it was just a shit post, then no, I had intent behind it.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Scum come up with fake claims, and they like to give them. If he said "I'm Data, Town Vanilla. I'm vanilla because I have no emotions." then I'd have said to just lynch him there.

Idk I think it be more null. Beacuse like it could be his actual role and flavor. Not claiming flavor raises red flags for me like I'm gonna buy myself time and such

EDumey posted...

Dumb answer, yes, there is a reason.

If you're asking if it was just a shit post, then no, I had intent behind it.

That is kinda what I was asking thank you

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Is this true though? Look back at Sheep's posts before the claim and IIRC they're all multi-quote posts engaging with Sultan and Crescent about him. It's not like he wasn't engaging in conversation before the votes appeared. He was actively talking to people, but the votes piled on anyway.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I don't feel like he engaged with people's arguments after claiming either.

He just said "I'm doomed so I claim vanilla kbye"

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Scum come up with fake claims, and they like to give them. If he said "I'm Data, Town Vanilla. I'm vanilla because I have no emotions." then I'd have said to just lynch him there.

How often has this logic actually worked out? Because you mention it often enough I feel and while I recall people doing this, I don't recall them being scum doing so.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Idk I think it be more null. Beacuse like it could be his actual role and flavor. Not claiming flavor raises red flags for me like I'm gonna buy myself time and such

Why?

I mean, thing is, Scum could just pluck a name from the safelist and say "Data, vanilla". I don't think there's an operative strategical difference between Scum leaving out flavor on a vanilla claim.

EDumey posted...

Is this true though? Look back at Sheep's posts before the claim and IIRC they're all multi-quote posts engaging with Sultan and Crescent about him. It's not like he wasn't engaging in conversation before the votes appeared. He was actively talking to people, but the votes piled on anyway.

I think he was talking at people more than talking to people.

There's nothing actually solving about anything he's done.

ctesjbuvf posted...

How often has this logic actually worked out? Because you mention it often enough I feel and while I recall people doing this, I don't recall them being scum doing so.

I've been refining it.

It's not a pure science, but I believe we've seen more the exception to the rule lately.

I initially added my vote in hopes of getting sheep to claim. I expected a bit more from his post than going town vanilla gotta run for a while so Im not moving my vote, but its not definitely locked in

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Yep. He made little to no effort to sway people who were voting him, then just rolled over and claimed.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Why?

I mean, thing is, Scum could just pluck a name from the safelist and say "Data, vanilla". I don't think there's an operative strategical difference between Scum leaving out flavor on a vanilla claim.

So say I was vanilla and claimed Vanilla with my actual role and the reason I am vanilla you'd say okay this is a lie kill it?

I'm confused on how it makes someone more town to not prove they are vanilla to those who know the flavor.

I dont think that is really alignment defining