Current Events > Abby (TLOU2) face model still getting death threats

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littlebro07 02/16/23 9:23:12 PM #51:	Oh damn, I remember hearing people get upset that ~~Joel dies~~ and thats completely understandable since theyre obviously attached to the character but didnt realize ~~it happens super early in the game and they make you play as his killer lol~~ what a weird choice to make --- https://i.imgtc.com/MGGa6Os.gif <cite>littlebro07 posted [p:971618688] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>Oh damn, I remember hearing people get upset that Joel dies and thats completely understandable since theyre obviously attached to the character but didnt realize it happens super early in the game and they make you play as his killer lolwhat a weird choice to make</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
boxoto 02/16/23 9:24:23 PM #52:	TheShadowViper posted... No you completely missed the main one, that the story is poorly written with the idiot ball being tossed around like it is a bad sitcom. Characters travel hundreds of miles only to find their target in the middle of a snowstorm, characters who are hardened survivors walk into the middle of unknown people's bases and announce who they are, characters leave other characters alive that threaten to kill them to their face only for them to come back and kill them, and characters leave maps to their secret hideouts lying around after killing someone....it goes on and on. It is a terribly written game. As for this nonsense, it is just that. Why you would give crediance to such trolls is beyond me, she is only enabling them. this is ignoring a lot of context. the reason why Abby finds Joel and Tommy is because they're the only ones patrolling, due to a horde of infected being in the area, and she follows their tracks, which puts her in the middle of the zombies (the ones which Joel and Tommy were tracking)... dialogue justifies their placement, if you pay attention. Joel and Tommy were in the middle of a blizzard and a horde of zombies, so they had nowhere else to go. plus, Tommy is the one who introduces himself to Abby and gives her their names. and extra plus, since he runs Jackson, he most likely thought she already knew who he was, and was looking for him and his community. notes and cutscenes justify that this is how they treat outsiders Ellie had the map out because she was going to practice the tactic Joel taught her about using two people against each other, but due to the horror of killing a pregnant person, it's understandable she dropped the map --- Don't you agree, Zach? https://streamable.com/bmh5oq <cite>boxoto posted [p:971618712] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>No you completely missed the main one, that the story is poorly written with the idiot ball being tossed around like it is a bad sitcom.Characters travel hundreds of miles only to find their target in the middle of a snowstorm, characters who are hardened survivors walk into the middle of unknown people's bases and announce who they are, characters leave other characters alive that threaten to kill them to their face only for them to come back and kill them, and characters leave maps to their secret hideouts lying around after killing someone....it goes on and on. It is a terribly written game.As for this nonsense, it is just that. Why you would give crediance to such trolls is beyond me, she is only enabling them.</quote>this is ignoring a lot of context. the reason why Abby finds Joel and Tommy is because they're the only ones patrolling, due to a horde of infected being in the area, and she follows their tracks, which puts her in the middle of the zombies (the ones which Joel and Tommy were tracking)... dialogue justifies their placement, if you pay attention. Joel and Tommy were in the middle of a blizzard and a horde of zombies, so they had nowhere else to go. plus, Tommy is the one who introduces himself to Abby and gives her their names. and extra plus, since he runs Jackson, he most likely thought she already knew who he was, and was looking for him and his community. notes and cutscenes justify that this is how they treat outsiders Ellie had the map out because she was going to practice the tactic Joel taught her about using two people against each other, but due to the horror of killing a pregnant person, it's understandable she dropped the map</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
XxAxem_BlackxX 02/16/23 9:25:25 PM #53:	"Then you'll get what Joel got!" I have so much second hand embarrassment for that guy. I can't believe he's so worked up over a video game character dying. It's not real my dude. <cite>XxAxem_BlackxX posted [p:971618727] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>"Then you'll get what Joel got!" I have so much second hand embarrassment for that guy. I can't believe he's so worked up over a video game character dying. It's not real my dude.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
rexcrk 02/16/23 9:31:03 PM #54:	https://twitter.com/Jocelyn_Mettler/status/1626366916989419520?s=20 Which CEman is this? --- Fate rarely calls on us at a moment of our choosing. <cite>rexcrk posted [p:971618823] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote><quote>https://twitter.com/Jocelyn_Mettler/status/1626366916989419520?s=20</quote>Which CEman is this?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BakonBitz 02/16/23 9:32:17 PM #55:	littlebro07 posted... Oh damn, I remember hearing people get upset that ~~Joel dies~~ and thats completely understandable since theyre obviously attached to the character but didnt realize ~~it happens super early in the game and they make you play as his killer lol~~ what a weird choice to make It's basically a bold attempt to make the player understand where she's coming from. --- Game collection: http://www.backloggery.com/bakonbitz Gaming channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwVQm69J7bGScbv3_50C0dA <cite>BakonBitz posted [p:971618846] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>littlebro07 posted... </cite><quote>Oh damn, I remember hearing people get upset that Joel dies and thats completely understandable since theyre obviously attached to the character but didnt realize it happens super early in the game and they make you play as his killer lolwhat a weird choice to make</quote>It's basically a bold attempt to make the player understand where she's coming from.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheShadowViper 02/16/23 9:34:47 PM #56:	boxoto posted... this is ignoring a lot of context. * the reason why Abby finds Joel and Tommy is because they're the only ones patrolling, due to a horde of infected being in the area, and she follows their tracks, which puts her in the middle of the zombies (the ones which Joel and Tommy were tracking)... dialogue justifies their placement, if you pay attention. * Joel and Tommy were in the middle of a blizzard and a horde of zombies, so they had nowhere else to go. plus, Tommy is the one who introduces himself to Abby and gives her their names. and extra plus, since he runs Jackson, he most likely thought she already knew who he was, and was looking for him and his community. notes and cutscenes justify that this is how they treat outsiders * Ellie had the map out because she was going to practice the tactic Joel taught her about using two people against each other, but due to the horror of killing a pregnant person, it's understandable she dropped the map It is not ignoring context at all, you seem to be of the belief that just because something has an explanation, that means it is an acceptable explanation, that is wrong. When an explanation in universe is absurd or dumb, it is bad writing. Characters in the Last of Us 2 routinely act like complete morons in order to progress the plot. This is combination with other plot elements like forcing the player to kill a dog and then beating them over the head with what the game forces you to do as if it was your fault despite many avenues the player could use to avoid the situation if power was vested in them, and the absurd and numerously improbable coincidences. You cannot simultaneously try to lock the player into feeling guilt for the actions of these characters while making their actions so absurd that the player never would have done them. You cannot have stakes, when the author decides to make the characters act out of character because they want to progress the plot in a simple way. None of it was necessary to progress the story. Characters do not have to act like idiots in order to move the plot forward, but in the Last of Us 2 they absolutely do. See Idiot Ball. These elements were also present in one with organizations like the Fireflies (who act like complete morons), but they were drowned out by the strength of the rest of the story. Last of Us 2 is simply a terribly written sequel to a great game and that is why it gets the shit it does. There will always be trolls and nuts who hate something for things like killing main characters, but Last of Us 2 mainly gets shit for being an atrociously written narrative. <cite>TheShadowViper posted [p:971618889] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>boxoto posted... </cite><quote>this is ignoring a lot of context. * the reason why Abby finds Joel and Tommy is because they're the only ones patrolling, due to a horde of infected being in the area, and she follows their tracks, which puts her in the middle of the zombies (the ones which Joel and Tommy were tracking)... dialogue justifies their placement, if you pay attention. * Joel and Tommy were in the middle of a blizzard and a horde of zombies, so they had nowhere else to go. plus, Tommy is the one who introduces himself to Abby and gives her their names. and extra plus, since he runs Jackson, he most likely thought she already knew who he was, and was looking for him and his community. notes and cutscenes justify that this is how they treat outsiders * Ellie had the map out because she was going to practice the tactic Joel taught her about using two people against each other, but due to the horror of killing a pregnant person, it's understandable she dropped the map</quote>It is not ignoring context at all, you seem to be of the belief that just because something has an explanation, that means it is an acceptable explanation, that is wrong. When an explanation in universe is absurd or dumb, it is bad writing. Characters in the Last of Us 2 routinely act like complete morons in order to progress the plot. This is combination with other plot elements like forcing the player to kill a dog and then beating them over the head with what the game forces you to do as if it was your fault despite many avenues the player could use to avoid the situation if power was vested in them, and the absurd and numerously improbable coincidences. You cannot simultaneously try to lock the player into feeling guilt for the actions of these characters while making their actions so absurd that the player never would have done them. You cannot have stakes, when the author decides to make the characters act out of character because they want to progress the plot in a simple way.None of it was necessary to progress the story. Characters do not have to act like idiots in order to move the plot forward, but in the Last of Us 2 they absolutely do. See Idiot Ball.These elements were also present in one with organizations like the Fireflies (who act like complete morons), but they were drowned out by the strength of the rest of the story. Last of Us 2 is simply a terribly written sequel to a great game and that is why it gets the shit it does.There will always be trolls and nuts who hate something for things like killing main characters, but Last of Us 2 mainly gets shit for being an atrociously written narrative.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punished_Blinx 02/16/23 9:39:26 PM #57:	I don't think people are harassing a face model years later because of plot convenience in a video game. TheShadowViper posted... You cannot simultaneously try to lock the player into feeling guilt for the actions of these characters while making their actions so absurd that the player never would have done them I always kill guard dogs in video games. Fuck those pups. --- A Fallen Mascot <cite>Punished_Blinx posted [p:971618968] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>I don't think people are harassing a face model years later because of plot convenience in a video game. TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>You cannot simultaneously try to lock the player into feeling guilt for the actions of these characters while making their actions so absurd that the player never would have done them</quote>I always kill guard dogs in video games. Fuck those pups. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheShadowViper 02/16/23 9:43:52 PM #58:	Punished_Blinx posted... I always kill guard dogs in video games. Fuck those pups. And that is perfectly fine. The problem is when the narrative forces you to do it, and then frames it like you had any say in the matter at all. It is cheap emotional trick that falls on its face narratively like a bad card trick. And these people are trolls who want attention, the question was what was the drama behind the Last of Us 2 and the main problem with it for most is it is a badly written sequel to a beloved game. <cite>TheShadowViper posted [p:971619043] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>Punished_Blinx posted... </cite><quote>I always kill guard dogs in video games. Fuck those pups.</quote>And that is perfectly fine. The problem is when the narrative forces you to do it, and then frames it like you had any say in the matter at all. It is cheap emotional trick that falls on its face narratively like a bad card trick. And these people are trolls who want attention, the question was what was the drama behind the Last of Us 2 and the main problem with it for most is it is a badly written sequel to a beloved game.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punished_Blinx 02/16/23 9:46:00 PM #59:	TheShadowViper posted... And that is perfectly fine. The problem is when the narrative forces you to do it, and then frames it like you had any say in the matter at all. It is cheap emotional trick that falls on its face narratively like a bad card trick. There is no meta-narrative element to TLOU2 at all. It says nothing about the player or playing violent video games. The entire thing is about the choices the characters make. --- A Fallen Mascot <cite>Punished_Blinx posted [p:971619078] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>And that is perfectly fine. The problem is when the narrative forces you to do it, and then frames it like you had any say in the matter at all. It is cheap emotional trick that falls on its face narratively like a bad card trick. </quote>There is no meta-narrative element to TLOU2 at all. It says nothing about the player or playing violent video games. The entire thing is about the choices the characters make. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
boxoto 02/16/23 9:48:05 PM #60:	the game doesn't once judge the player for the actions of that characters; I don't know where that came from. the characters do what they feel they should do, regardless of player input, and it's up to the player to judge whether they should continue with the story or not. also, characters doing the wrong thing, even if the player or other characters disagree, doesn't mean that something is necessarily poorly written, and when you think about the setting and events in the game, it makes sense why they do what they do. lastly, Joel makes no dumb mistakes in the game; his past just catches up with him, and his "folly" is being a better person. Abby makes no real dumb mistakes in the game (outside of not killing Ellie and Tommy), but her loyalty to the others/not wanting to make things worse is her folly. however, with Ellie, there's no real law enforcement, therapy, etc. in that world, so as a product of that world, she has to use poorly learned concepts to deal with her grief edit: at post 56 --- Don't you agree, Zach? https://streamable.com/bmh5oq <cite>boxoto posted [p:971619110] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>the game doesn't once judge the player for the actions of that characters; I don't know where that came from. the characters do what they feel they should do, regardless of player input, and it's up to the player to judge whether they should continue with the story or not. also, characters doing the wrong thing, even if the player or other characters disagree, doesn't mean that something is necessarily poorly written, and when you think about the setting and events in the game, it makes sense why they do what they do. lastly, Joel makes no dumb mistakes in the game; his past just catches up with him, and his "folly" is being a better person. Abby makes no real dumb mistakes in the game (outside of not killing Ellie and Tommy), but her loyalty to the others/not wanting to make things worse is her folly. however, with Ellie, there's no real law enforcement, therapy, etc. in that world, so as a product of that world, she has to use poorly learned concepts to deal with her griefedit: at post 56</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheShadowViper 02/16/23 9:48:33 PM #61:	Punished_Blinx posted... There is no meta-narrative element to TLOU2 at all. It says nothing about the player or playing violent video games. The entire thing is about the choices the characters make. This is undeniably false. ~~We are shown the animal from a different perspective entirely because of the payoff of it being killed from another.~~ Only the player would have the knowledge to feel the impact of that death. So stop bullshitting. <cite>TheShadowViper posted [p:971619117] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>Punished_Blinx posted... </cite><quote>There is no meta-narrative element to TLOU2 at all. It says nothing about the player or playing violent video games. The entire thing is about the choices the characters make.</quote>This is undeniably false. We are shown the animal from a different perspective entirely because of the payoff of it being killed from another.Only the player would have the knowledge to feel the impact of that death. So stop bullshitting.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheShadowViper 02/16/23 9:51:25 PM #62:	boxoto posted... also, characters doing the wrong thing, even if the player or other characters disagree Characters making mistakes is not the same as them playing idiot ball. You are not arguing in good faith, you are simply regurgitating bullshit. The fact that you have no problem with characters acting like complete idiots to progress the plot is your deal. Many of us would like well written games with characters who are not shown to be competent only to act incompetent for maximum drama. <cite>TheShadowViper posted [p:971619163] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>boxoto posted... </cite><quote>also, characters doing the wrong thing, even if the player or other characters disagree</quote>Characters making mistakes is not the same as them playing idiot ball. You are not arguing in good faith, you are simply regurgitating bullshit.The fact that you have no problem with characters acting like complete idiots to progress the plot is your deal. Many of us would like well written games with characters who are not shown to be competent only to act incompetent for maximum drama.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kakapo 02/16/23 9:51:50 PM #63:	What a sane and measured reaction to a video game. You can smell the gamer gate from here. --- There's resounding gongs and clanging bowls, there's cats to guide my soul 24 hour party parrot <cite>Kakapo posted [p:971619168] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>What a sane and measured reaction to a video game. You can smell the gamer gate from here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
stage4saiyan 02/16/23 9:52:13 PM #64:	Her follow-up response is 10/10 --- Currently playing: The Witcher 3 (PS5), Grime (PS5), Gran Turismo 7 (PS5), Phantasy Star Online (GC) <cite>stage4saiyan posted [p:971619176] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>Her follow-up response is 10/10</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punished_Blinx 02/16/23 9:54:09 PM #65:	TheShadowViper posted... This is undeniably false. ~~We are shown the animal from a different perspective entirely because of the payoff of it being killed from another.~~ Only the player would have the knowledge to feel the impact of that death. So stop bullshitting. That doesn't make it a meta-narrative. Movies and TV shows do that sort of thing all the time. The point is showing that there are people living their lives on the other side of the violence and that maybe you'd relate to them if you saw things from their perspective. --- A Fallen Mascot <cite>Punished_Blinx posted [p:971619215] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>This is undeniably false. We are shown the animal from a different perspective entirely because of the payoff of it being killed from another.Only the player would have the knowledge to feel the impact of that death. So stop bullshitting.</quote>That doesn't make it a meta-narrative. Movies and TV shows do that sort of thing all the time. The point is showing that there are people living their lives on the other side of the violence and that maybe you'd relate to them if you saw things from their perspective. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
cjsdowg 02/16/23 9:54:10 PM #66:	Spiritlittle posted... ut it's not. It's the most honest portrayal of human emotions I've ever seen in any medium. ~~She mows thur all these people that didn't kill Joel. And then is like oh no let's not kill the person that did kill Joel at the end .~~ Beyond all the other bad writing part that is just the worst Trope outside of .. ~~if you kill him you would be just like him.~~ --- To be a poor man is hard, but to be a poor race in a land of dollars is the very bottom of hardships. W.E.B. Du Bois <cite>cjsdowg posted [p:971619216] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>Spiritlittle posted... </cite><quote>ut it's not.It's the most honest portrayal of human emotions I've ever seen in any medium.</quote>She mows thur all these people that didn't kill Joel. And then is like oh no let's not kill the person that did kill Joel at the end . Beyond all the other bad writing part that is just the worst Trope outside of .. if you kill him you would be just like him. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
boxoto 02/16/23 9:54:17 PM #67:	TheShadowViper posted... This is undeniably false. ~~We are shown the animal from a different perspective entirely because of the payoff of it being killed from another.~~ Only the player would have the knowledge to feel the impact of that death. So stop bullshitting. we only see how that affects the characters, like every other death in the game. the player doesn't have to feel anything, and there's no stat with how wrong or right we might have behaved as we played. --- Don't you agree, Zach? https://streamable.com/bmh5oq <cite>boxoto posted [p:971619218] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>This is undeniably false. We are shown the animal from a different perspective entirely because of the payoff of it being killed from another.Only the player would have the knowledge to feel the impact of that death. So stop bullshitting.</quote>we only see how that affects the characters, like every other death in the game. the player doesn't have to feel anything, and there's no stat with how wrong or right we might have behaved as we played. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punished_Blinx 02/16/23 9:58:17 PM #68:	cjsdowg posted... ~~She mows thur all these people that didn't kill Joel. And then is like oh no let's not kill the person that did kill Joel at the end .~~ Beyond all the other bad writing part that is just the worst Trope outside of .. ~~if you kill him you would be just like him.~~ ~~It's more about breaking the cycle of revenge and escalation before she completely loses herself even further than a simple "If I kill you I'm just like you"~~ ~~Killing Abby just opens the door for Lev to want hunt and kill Ellie and it all just continues.~~ ~~Morally she overall is just as bad as Abby with what she does. Both of them decide to let things go as it has gotten too much and gone too far.~~ --- A Fallen Mascot <cite>Punished_Blinx posted [p:971619274] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>cjsdowg posted... </cite><quote>She mows thur all these people that didn't kill Joel. And then is like oh no let's not kill the person that did kill Joel at the end . Beyond all the other bad writing part that is just the worst Trope outside of .. if you kill him you would be just like him. </quote>It's more about breaking the cycle of revenge and escalation before she completely loses herself even further than a simple "If I kill you I'm just like you"Killing Abby just opens the door for Lev to want hunt and kill Ellie and it all just continues. Morally she overall is just as bad as Abby with what she does. Both of them decide to let things go as it has gotten too much and gone too far. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
viewmaster_pi 02/16/23 9:58:47 PM #69:	well, that's very thoughtful https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/0/2/AAOjRaAAEMNq.jpg --- The stone that fell is still falling, so let that stone be a wondrous thing <cite>viewmaster_pi posted [p:971619280] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>well, that's very thoughtfulhttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/0/2/AAOjRaAAEMNq.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheShadowViper 02/16/23 9:59:16 PM #70:	boxoto posted... we only see how that affects the characters, like every other death in the game. the player doesn't have to feel anything, and there's no stat with how wrong or right we might have behaved as we played. "The story isn't trying to utilize the perspective of the player" Game does something solely for the player "Your nonsense here" Like your argument doesn't even make sense. Abby as a character herself is directly trying to challenge the player's beliefs. The plot is literally set up in a meta way to test the player. It is built into the game. Druckmann got lost in what he wanted to do narratively and used cheap tricks and poor writing to drag the plot forward. Bad writing gets excused and you get shit like Last of Us 2 and Game of Thrones Season 8. Frankly, I'd rather not have anymore repeats of that garbage. <cite>TheShadowViper posted [p:971619289] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>boxoto posted... </cite><quote>we only see how that affects the characters, like every other death in the game. the player doesn't have to feel anything, and there's no stat with how wrong or right we might have behaved as we played.</quote>"The story isn't trying to utilize the perspective of the player"Game does something solely for the player"Your nonsense here"Like your argument doesn't even make sense. Abby as a character herself is directly trying to challenge the player's beliefs. The plot is literally set up in a meta way to test the player. It is built into the game.Druckmann got lost in what he wanted to do narratively and used cheap tricks and poor writing to drag the plot forward. Bad writing gets excused and you get shit like Last of Us 2 and Game of Thrones Season 8. Frankly, I'd rather not have anymore repeats of that garbage.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
boxoto 02/16/23 9:59:46 PM #71:	TheShadowViper posted... Characters making mistakes is not the same as them playing idiot ball. You are not arguing in good faith, you are simply regurgitating bullshit. how did they play "idiot ball"? if you're going to use the same examples from your initial post, then the game either justifies the situation or at least does so in a way you can understand why it might have happened (like, ~~dropping the map~~). TheShadowViper posted... The fact that you have no problem with characters acting like complete idiots to progress the plot is your deal. Many of us would like well written games with characters who are not shown to be competent only to act incompetent for maximum drama. I didn't say I had no problem with "characters "acting like idiots to advance the plot"; my point was how characters making mistakes doesn't necessarily for make bad writing, especially when you put context into consideration. --- Don't you agree, Zach? https://streamable.com/bmh5oq <cite>boxoto posted [p:971619299] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>Characters making mistakes is not the same as them playing idiot ball. You are not arguing in good faith, you are simply regurgitating bullshit.</quote>how did they play "idiot ball"? if you're going to use the same examples from your initial post, then the game either justifies the situation or at least does so in a way you can understand why it might have happened (like, dropping the map).TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>The fact that you have no problem with characters acting like complete idiots to progress the plot is your deal. Many of us would like well written games with characters who are not shown to be competent only to act incompetent for maximum drama.</quote>I didn't say I had no problem with "characters "acting like idiots to advance the plot"; my point was how characters making mistakes doesn't necessarily for make bad writing, especially when you put context into consideration. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punished_Blinx 02/16/23 10:02:30 PM #72:	TheShadowViper posted... "The story isn't trying to utilize the perspective of the player" Game does something solely for the player "Your nonsense here" Like your argument doesn't even make sense. Abby as a character herself is directly trying to challenge the player's beliefs. The plot is literally set up in a meta way to test the player. It is built into the game. Druckmann got lost in what he wanted to do narratively and used cheap tricks and poor writing to drag the plot forward. "Remember this person you hated? What if you grow to understand and like them?" is far more common in TV and movies than it is in video games. Nothing about the plot is meta and will translate to the TV show just fine. Perhaps even better. --- A Fallen Mascot <cite>Punished_Blinx posted [p:971619339] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>"The story isn't trying to utilize the perspective of the player"Game does something solely for the player"Your nonsense here"Like your argument doesn't even make sense. Abby as a character herself is directly trying to challenge the player's beliefs. The plot is literally set up in a meta way to test the player. It is built into the game.Druckmann got lost in what he wanted to do narratively and used cheap tricks and poor writing to drag the plot forward.</quote>"Remember this person you hated? What if you grow to understand and like them?" is far more common in TV and movies than it is in video games. Nothing about the plot is meta and will translate to the TV show just fine. Perhaps even better. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slayer_22 02/16/23 10:02:58 PM #73:	viewmaster_pi posted... well, that's very thoughtful https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/0/2/AAOjRaAAEMNq.jpg Good ending achieved! --- "And no I'm not signing your twitter after this type of attitude so don't ask..." - IIINCORRUPTIBLE <cite>Slayer_22 posted [p:971619343] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>viewmaster_pi posted... </cite><quote>well, that's very thoughtfulhttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/0/2/AAOjRaAAEMNq.jpg</quote>Good ending achieved!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheShadowViper 02/16/23 10:04:42 PM #74:	Except the context in your examples only makes it worse. Again, you are accepting shitty explanations and acting like that is sufficient. It is not. ~~The character is flustered so they drop the map to their secret hideout at a crime scene is not a reasonable explanation regardless of how you dress it up.~~ I literally told you what you were doing, and then you asked for more examples so you could do the exact same things again. You are not interested in the reasonableness of these actions, only in excusing the plot. <cite>TheShadowViper posted [p:971619370] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>Except the context in your examples only makes it worse. Again, you are accepting shitty explanations and acting like that is sufficient. It is not. The character is flustered so they drop the map to their secret hideout at a crime scene is not a reasonable explanation regardless of how you dress it up.I literally told you what you were doing, and then you asked for more examples so you could do the exact same things again. You are not interested in the reasonableness of these actions, only in excusing the plot.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
boxoto 02/16/23 10:07:08 PM #75:	TheShadowViper posted... "The story isn't trying to utilize the perspective of the player" Game does something solely for the player "Your nonsense here" Like your argument doesn't even make sense. Abby as a character herself is directly trying to challenge the player's beliefs. The plot is literally set up in a meta way to test the player. It is built into the game. Druckmann got lost in what he wanted to do narratively and used cheap tricks and poor writing to drag the plot forward. Bad writing gets excused and you get shit like Last of Us 2 and Game of Thrones Season 8. Frankly, I'd rather not have anymore repeats of that garbage. the point of playing Abby is so we can understand her perspective, and whether you felt sorry for her, liked her, etc. then that was a bonus, but it's mostly about perspective and empathy. like, do you feel guilty when ~~Joel kills the Fireflies or Abby kills Jesse?~~ these are all things that happen outside of our input. the game might try to guide you on how to feel, like most fiction, but it never tells you how to feel. feeling that you should feel guilty about ~~killing a dog~~ is something you derived from the story. I was just curious as to where it would go. --- Don't you agree, Zach? https://streamable.com/bmh5oq <cite>boxoto posted [p:971619405] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>"The story isn't trying to utilize the perspective of the player"Game does something solely for the player"Your nonsense here"Like your argument doesn't even make sense. Abby as a character herself is directly trying to challenge the player's beliefs. The plot is literally set up in a meta way to test the player. It is built into the game.Druckmann got lost in what he wanted to do narratively and used cheap tricks and poor writing to drag the plot forward. Bad writing gets excused and you get shit like Last of Us 2 and Game of Thrones Season 8. Frankly, I'd rather not have anymore repeats of that garbage.</quote>the point of playing Abby is so we can understand her perspective, and whether you felt sorry for her, liked her, etc. then that was a bonus, but it's mostly about perspective and empathy. like, do you feel guilty when Joel kills the Fireflies or Abby kills Jesse? these are all things that happen outside of our input. the game might try to guide you on how to feel, like most fiction, but it never tells you how to feel. feeling that you should feel guilty about killing a dog is something you derived from the story. I was just curious as to where it would go. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punished_Blinx 02/16/23 10:10:01 PM #76:	TheShadowViper posted... Except the context in your examples only makes it worse. Again, you are accepting shitty explanations and acting like that is sufficient. It is not. ~~The character is flustered so they drop the map to their secret hideout at a crime scene is not a reasonable explanation regardless of how you dress it up.~~ I literally told you what you were doing, and then you asked for more examples so you could do the exact same things again. You are not interested in the reasonableness of these actions, only in excusing the plot. It's convenient. Yes. Because wasting time telling a story about some alternative way for them to find out where to go to push the story forward wastes time for the story they want to tell. Like how do you enjoy any narrative if you care about crap like that. "Wahh I wanted several hours of them asking around and spending time figuring out where to go so the game about fungus zombies and killing hundreds of people is more real!" --- A Fallen Mascot <cite>Punished_Blinx posted [p:971619450] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>Except the context in your examples only makes it worse. Again, you are accepting shitty explanations and acting like that is sufficient. It is not. The character is flustered so they drop the map to their secret hideout at a crime scene is not a reasonable explanation regardless of how you dress it up.I literally told you what you were doing, and then you asked for more examples so you could do the exact same things again. You are not interested in the reasonableness of these actions, only in excusing the plot.</quote>It's convenient. Yes. Because wasting time telling a story about some alternative way for them to find out where to go to push the story forward wastes time for the story they want to tell. Like how do you enjoy any narrative if you care about crap like that. "Wahh I wanted several hours of them asking around and spending time figuring out where to go so the game about fungus zombies and killing hundreds of people is more real!"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
boxoto 02/16/23 10:11:55 PM #77:	TheShadowViper posted... Except the context in your examples only makes it worse. Again, you are accepting shitty explanations and acting like that is sufficient. It is not. The character is flustered so they drop the map to their secret hideout at a crime scene is not a reasonable explanation regardless of how you dress it up. umm, you can at least imagine someone not thinking about a ~~map~~ in that situation, right? especially a young woman who tried to play tough guy, and did all type of stuff she regretted. plus, ~~Tommy and Jesse didn't see the map~~, so it's not like a person with a clear head saw it and decided to leave it. TheShadowViper posted... I literally told you what you were doing, and then you asked for more examples so you could do the exact same things again. You are not interested in the reasonableness of these actions, only in excusing the plot. I was curious, because like I said, some of your criticism was ignoring the context, dialogue, notes, and so on. --- Don't you agree, Zach? https://streamable.com/bmh5oq <cite>boxoto posted [p:971619483] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>Except the context in your examples only makes it worse. Again, you are accepting shitty explanations and acting like that is sufficient. It is not. The character is flustered so they drop the map to their secret hideout at a crime scene is not a reasonable explanation regardless of how you dress it up.</quote>umm, you can at least imagine someone not thinking about a map in that situation, right?especially a young woman who tried to play tough guy, and did all type of stuff she regretted. plus, Tommy and Jesse didn't see the map, so it's not like a person with a clear head saw it and decided to leave it.TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>I literally told you what you were doing, and then you asked for more examples so you could do the exact same things again. You are not interested in the reasonableness of these actions, only in excusing the plot.</quote>I was curious, because like I said, some of your criticism was ignoring the context, dialogue, notes, and so on. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SSMajinVegeta2 02/16/23 10:16:33 PM #78:	games story sounds terrible. but she doesnt deserve death threats wtf. Messed up --- On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer. Satoru Iwata, 1959 - 2015 RIP GP God bless <cite>SSMajinVegeta2 posted [p:971619542] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>games story sounds terrible. but she doesnt deserve death threats wtf. Messed up </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheShadowViper 02/16/23 10:19:48 PM #79:	boxoto posted... umm, you can at least imagine someone not thinking about a map in that situation, right? It is amazing to me that you somehow don't see an event that is both extraordinarily convenient for one party and extraordinarily stupid for the other as bad writing yet here you are. It also assures me of my previous statement that you are just looking to apologize. What's hilarious is a lot of this could have made for a better game if Druckmann had actually done the work. Abby tracking down Joel slowly and methodically vs running into him in a snowstorm? Sounds great. Abby tracking down Ellie in a similar way building the tension with the player wondering if it will end up just like Joel? Sounds great. ~~Instead we get one character who is stupid enough to not only mark her hideout on a map, but leave that map behind at a crime scene.~~ All so characters can easily connect for the next phase of a poorly written sequel. <cite>TheShadowViper posted [p:971619585] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>boxoto posted... </cite><quote>umm, you can at least imagine someone not thinking about a map in that situation, right?</quote>It is amazing to me that you somehow don't see an event that is both extraordinarily convenient for one party and extraordinarily stupid for the other as bad writing yet here you are. It also assures me of my previous statement that you are just looking to apologize.What's hilarious is a lot of this could have made for a better game if Druckmann had actually done the work. Abby tracking down Joel slowly and methodically vs running into him in a snowstorm? Sounds great. Abby tracking down Ellie in a similar way building the tension with the player wondering if it will end up just like Joel? Sounds great.Instead we get one character who is stupid enough to not only mark her hideout on a map, but leave that map behind at a crime scene. All so characters can easily connect for the next phase of a poorly written sequel.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FigureOfSpeech 02/16/23 10:20:17 PM #80:	I don;t know anything about the games and I've only seen the first 2 episodes of the show... why do so many "certain people" dislike TLoU2? <cite>FigureOfSpeech posted [p:971619593] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>I don;t know anything about the games and I've only seen the first 2 episodes of the show...why do so many "certain people" dislike TLoU2?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
R_Jackal 02/16/23 10:21:34 PM #81:	SSMajinVegeta2 posted... games story sounds terrible. but she doesnt deserve death threats wtf. Messed up They tried to make the story more human over the first game, the thing that invariably fucks up zombie media because they don't realize the story is already about humanity and not the circumstances in every single zombie title ever. <cite>R_Jackal posted [p:971619610] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>SSMajinVegeta2 posted... </cite><quote>games story sounds terrible. but she doesnt deserve death threats wtf. Messed up</quote>They tried to make the story more human over the first game, the thing that invariably fucks up zombie media because they don't realize the story is already about humanity and not the circumstances in every single zombie title ever.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LightningAce11 02/16/23 10:26:53 PM #82:	Honestly the story had all the pieces there, just needed to be rearranged in a different order such as starting off with Abby and building sympathy before the main event. Also the final bit could be removed and just have it end with Ellie in the bed feeling very conflicted, and it being open to interpretation where she goes next. --- I want you to grab your nuts. Grab your balls. I want you to take a handful, and just grab your nuts real quick. Swivel 'em around in a circular motion. -LTG <cite>LightningAce11 posted [p:971619692] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>Honestly the story had all the pieces there, just needed to be rearranged in a different order such as starting off with Abby and building sympathy before the main event. Also the final bit could be removed and just have it end with Ellie in the bed feeling very conflicted, and it being open to interpretation where she goes next. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CADE_FOSTER 02/16/23 10:29:03 PM #83:	~~part 2 was amazing still wish Joel and Ellie got a good ending but wasnt meant to be~~ <cite>CADE_FOSTER posted [p:971619727] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>part 2 was amazing still wish Joel and Ellie got a good ending but wasnt meant to be</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punished_Blinx 02/16/23 10:33:18 PM #84:	LightningAce11 posted... Honestly the story had all the pieces there, just needed to be rearranged in a different order such as starting off with Abby and building sympathy before the main event. Also the final bit could be removed and just have it end with Ellie in the bed feeling very conflicted, and it being open to interpretation where she goes next. Yeah I think the biggest issue overall was trying to fit gameplay pacing into the story. I think the TV show will improve on it quite a bit. Wouldn't surprise me if the order is completely different and we alternate between both perspectives more regularly. Good luck to whoever that actress is going to be though. Ellie's live action actress is already copping shit. I think Melanie Lynskey was as well. --- A Fallen Mascot <cite>Punished_Blinx posted [p:971619802] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>LightningAce11 posted... </cite><quote>Honestly the story had all the pieces there, just needed to be rearranged in a different order such as starting off with Abby and building sympathy before the main event. Also the final bit could be removed and just have it end with Ellie in the bed feeling very conflicted, and it being open to interpretation where she goes next.</quote>Yeah I think the biggest issue overall was trying to fit gameplay pacing into the story. I think the TV show will improve on it quite a bit. Wouldn't surprise me if the order is completely different and we alternate between both perspectives more regularly. Good luck to whoever that actress is going to be though. Ellie's live action actress is already copping shit. I think Melanie Lynskey was as well. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
boxoto 02/16/23 10:33:32 PM #85:	TheShadowViper posted... It is amazing to me that you somehow don't see an event that is both extraordinarily convenient for one party and extraordinarily stupid for the other as bad writing yet here you are. It also assures me of my previous statement that you are just looking to apologize. I agree that it's convenient, but I don't agree that it's bad writing. like I said, I feel that it's an understandable mistake, given the circumstances, and off course it was a stupid thing to do. people, fictional or otherwise, often make grave mistakes. also, why would I feel any need to apologize? TheShadowViper posted... What's hilarious is a lot of this could have made for a better game if Druckmann had actually done the work. Abby tracking down Joel slowly and methodically vs running into him in a snowstorm? Sounds great. Abby tracking down Ellie in a similar way building the tension with the player wondering if it will end up just like Joel? Sounds great. Instead we get one character who is stupid enough to not only mark her hideout on a map, but leave that map behind at a crime scene. All so characters can easily connect for the next phase of a poorly written sequel. also, ~~Abby was methodically tracking Joel, which is why she ran into him in the snowstorm.~~ if that had never happened, then there's still a possibility ~~she would have found him, due to Jackson's open-door policy~~, but idk if it would have necessarily made for a better story since different things would have had to change. --- Don't you agree, Zach? https://streamable.com/bmh5oq <cite>boxoto posted [p:971619807] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>It is amazing to me that you somehow don't see an event that is both extraordinarily convenient for one party and extraordinarily stupid for the other as bad writing yet here you are. It also assures me of my previous statement that you are just looking to apologize.</quote>I agree that it's convenient, but I don't agree that it's bad writing. like I said, I feel that it's an understandable mistake, given the circumstances, and off course it was a stupid thing to do. people, fictional or otherwise, often make grave mistakes.also, why would I feel any need to apologize?TheShadowViper posted... </cite><quote>What's hilarious is a lot of this could have made for a better game if Druckmann had actually done the work. Abby tracking down Joel slowly and methodically vs running into him in a snowstorm? Sounds great. Abby tracking down Ellie in a similar way building the tension with the player wondering if it will end up just like Joel? Sounds great.Instead we get one character who is stupid enough to not only mark her hideout on a map, but leave that map behind at a crime scene. All so characters can easily connect for the next phase of a poorly written sequel.</quote>also, Abby was methodically tracking Joel, which is why she ran into him in the snowstorm. if that had never happened, then there's still a possibility she would have found him, due to Jackson's open-door policy, but idk if it would have necessarily made for a better story since different things would have had to change. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xGhostchantx 02/16/23 10:47:06 PM #86:	ya know i've been meaning to look at this game. if i didn't like the first one, will i also not like this one? --- Tiw - Min scild, min sweord, min rihtwisness, min dryhten <cite>xGhostchantx posted [p:971620054] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>ya know i've been meaning to look at this game. if i didn't like the first one, will i also not like this one?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
boxoto 02/16/23 10:54:08 PM #87:	xGhostchantx posted... ya know i've been meaning to look at this game. if i didn't like the first one, will i also not like this one? it depends on why you didn't like the first one. if it's because of gameplay, then the mechanics in the second game feel a lot better, IMO, and they give you more options. there are still a lot of "walking and talking" sections, though, and it's a lot longer. if it's because of the story, then it depends, since it uses its characters differently than in the original. I think it's worth giving a try. --- Don't you agree, Zach? https://streamable.com/bmh5oq <cite>boxoto posted [p:971620175] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>xGhostchantx posted... </cite><quote>ya know i've been meaning to look at this game. if i didn't like the first one, will i also not like this one?</quote>it depends on why you didn't like the first one. if it's because of gameplay, then the mechanics in the second game feel a lot better, IMO, and they give you more options. there are still a lot of "walking and talking" sections, though, and it's a lot longer. if it's because of the story, then it depends, since it uses its characters differently than in the original. I think it's worth giving a try. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WingsOfGood 02/16/23 10:57:02 PM #88:	think people who research enough to know who she even is would know she didn't write the story <cite>WingsOfGood posted [p:971620225] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>think people who research enough to know who she even is would know she didn't write the story</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xGhostchantx 02/16/23 10:58:29 PM #89:	boxoto posted... it depends on why you didn't like the first one. if it's because of gameplay, then the mechanics in the second game feel a lot better, IMO, and they give you more options. there are still a lot of "walking and talking" sections, though, and it's a lot longer. if it's because of the story, then it depends, since it uses its characters differently than in the original. I think it's worth giving a try. hmmm. okay, thanks for that. gonna pass on it. only played the first one thru cause my gf liked it otherwise i'd have put it down a few hours in. --- Tiw - Min scild, min sweord, min rihtwisness, min dryhten <cite>xGhostchantx posted [p:971620252] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>boxoto posted... </cite><quote>it depends on why you didn't like the first one. if it's because of gameplay, then the mechanics in the second game feel a lot better, IMO, and they give you more options. there are still a lot of "walking and talking" sections, though, and it's a lot longer. if it's because of the story, then it depends, since it uses its characters differently than in the original. I think it's worth giving a try.</quote>hmmm. okay, thanks for that. gonna pass on it. only played the first one thru cause my gf liked it otherwise i'd have put it down a few hours in.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
boxoto 02/16/23 10:59:07 PM #90:	truu, it's not for everyone. --- Don't you agree, Zach? https://streamable.com/bmh5oq <cite>boxoto posted [p:971620262] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>truu, it's not for everyone. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HylianFox 02/16/23 11:08:39 PM #91:	Twitter was a mistake --- THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK Do not write in this space. <cite>HylianFox posted [p:971620408] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>Twitter was a mistake</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LELuMADuRUSTLED 02/16/23 11:26:42 PM #92:	Savoots posted... Why do people act like this behavior is exclusive to gamers? Because the media has told them so a sufficient number of times, tbqh <cite>LELuMADuRUSTLED posted [p:971620742] in Abby (TLOU... [t:80350771]...</cite> <quote>Savoots posted... </cite><quote>Why do people act like this behavior is exclusive to gamers?</quote>Because the media has told them so a sufficient number of times, tbqh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Abby (TLOU2) face model still getting death threats (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Abby (TLOU2) face model still getting death threats