Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 8 - Plastic Codes Only Go To 7 Sorry

(+) Yeah! (+)

Chaeix posted...

I've been doing a lot of thinking about Dumey.

If Han and ctes are actually town, does scum really just go 'oh let's just let this slide, it's no worries'?

Either they have a powerful role that might specifically counter whatever thing ctes and han are concocting so they don't give a shit (let's be real, town has Mario and Koopa Troops were ridic, scum probably has some busted stuff), or Dumey looks a lot worse for being the other person aggressively pointing out the wifom in the situation along with me.

I find Dumey joining you to be to his credit. Town don't know what's up - Town doesn't know shit. So Town will actively be suspicious and all of that.

Ben accepted me and Ctes's claim easily. Hb hasn't said much, but said "i think ctes should claim too, uwu"

Kirby has been in favor of a massclaim, but for some reason I'm reading it differently as Dumey pushing us and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because Dumey is specifically focused on me/Ctes and Kirby is more "hue hue I can figure out Town power if I make the massclaim universal and not specifically targeted at Han and Ctes, who I know are telling the truth, based on them not being Scum with me!" (I said that out loud while typing it with a villainous voice)

Han, why wouldn't scum Ben come up with a better excuse?

Scum Ben could have also just said he scanned Ulti and confirmed he was a star spirit. If Ulti is town it's no sweat off his back. If Ulti's his scummate, possible equity there.

Would scumteam allow Ben to come in and claim red for no reason?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Home~

I know you don't mean it this way, but that's an awfully reductive way of looking at how I've presented my thoughts recently!

In my poe's, I earlier said that Hb fit both, but also I don't like how SBell referred to him, so it made me think better of him. For Dumey, I'm inclined to think he's not Scum with Kirby, and I'm way more insistent on Kirby atm. Also, reviewing D1, I just think Dumey looks better than others. And I don't think that Kirby's "failed hammer" says anything conclusive. If Dumey flipped Town, I could give a reason why Kirby didn't work. He could flip Scum, but like, eh? I just didn't feel as strong about Dumey being Scum after my 2/3 reread of Day 1.

Who are the Scum who are happy to let us get away with claiming?

Two thoughts in response to this:

1. They're not. Kirby and Hb both tried to get us to claim recently. They just don't want to seem desperate to do so.
2. Scum think they know what's up, which is fine by me because there's no chance they do, so it would be to our benefit.

As for Red, I have POE's without him in it. But I can't deny that he's done shit all game.

As for Ben, let's keep in mind - him scanning Redis fucking stupid. Why? Because he said "Red is not a Star Spirit." Why? Why scan someone and reveal that they can't fakeclaim a Star Spirit? Why not test Ulti? Why reveal at all? It's just so... dumb.

For Ben to be Town this game means that things are fucking dumb.

I wanted to not reveal who I scanned until after they claimed, but it seemed like everyone in the game was not okay with that

Chaeix posted...

Han, why wouldn't scum Ben come up with a better excuse?

Scum Ben could have also just said he scanned Ulti and confirmed he was a star spirit. If Ulti is town it's no sweat off his back. If Ulti's his scummate, possible equity there.

Would scumteam allow Ben to come in and claim red for no reason?

Let me think about this.

As a random scan, Red is very afk, good choice.

Why not scan Ulti? If Ben scans Ulti and says he's Star Spirit, and Ulti flips not Star Spirit, it incriminates Ben. If Ben scans Ulti and says he's not Star Spirit, well that would never happen. If Ben scans Ulti and says he is Star Spirit... I guess that's the most sensible thing to do if it's Scum/Town. Do we remove Scum/Town Ben/Ulti as an option based on this?

Would they allow Ben to claim Red? Eh? I think it was last game people were saying "Scum teams don't control every action of their team" which is true, even if it didn't necessarily apply there. I mean, I kept having heart attacks when Death suggested things that could help Town "becuase he's suggest them as Town".

Fairly Sure Town
JC
Kirby
Ben

IDFK
Han
ctes

Less sure town
Plum
Ulti
Peaf

PoE
Hb
red
Dumey

this is my current PoE it may be wildly wrong, can't wait to find out when i probably die when things go 'awry' tonight

Chaeix posted...

Han, why wouldn't scum Ben come up with a better excuse?

Scum Ben could have also just said he scanned Ulti and confirmed he was a star spirit. If Ulti is town it's no sweat off his back. If Ulti's his scummate, possible equity there.

Would scumteam allow Ben to come in and claim red for no reason?

Question... did Ben claim scanning Red before or after you revealed you had a track/watch?

Official Votals as of 406 (check for errors though)

Red [3] - (Ulti), JC, (Kirby), (Ulti), Peaf, Ben
Dumey [2] - (Kirby), (Han), (JC), Ulti, Kirby
Kirby [1] - (Peaf), Dumey, (Ulti)
Hb [0] - (Peaf)
Ben [0] - (Plum), (Plum), (Kirby), (Kirby)
Han [0] - (Ulti), (Dumey), (JC), (Plum)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day ends at 9:00 P.M. Eastern (or 1.3 hours from now).

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Let me think about this.

As a random scan, Red is very afk, good choice.

Why not scan Ulti? If Ben scans Ulti and says he's Star Spirit, and Ulti flips not Star Spirit, it incriminates Ben. If Ben scans Ulti and says he's not Star Spirit, well that would never happen. If Ben scans Ulti and says he is Star Spirit... I guess that's the most sensible thing to do if it's Scum/Town. Do we remove Scum/Town Ben/Ulti as an option based on this?

Would they allow Ben to claim Red? Eh? I think it was last game people were saying "Scum teams don't control every action of their team" which is true, even if it didn't necessarily apply there. I mean, I kept having heart attacks when Death suggested things that could help Town "becuase he's suggest them as Town".

What reason would town Ulti have to lie about being a star spirit? It would possibly draw Ben's scan and just expose the lie and make him look like scum. Bad move.

And if Ulti's Ben's scummate, do you really think that he lets Ben not claim the fake scan on him?

##vote: ben

he basically dodged my questions. His role doesn't make any game sense. His scan on me makes no sense. His game presence otherwise is minimal.

Kirby321 posted...

Question... did Ben claim scanning Red before or after you revealed you had a track/watch?

i believe much before but honestly don't remember.

Leafeon13N posted...

##vote: ben

he basically dodged my questions. His role doesn't make any game sense. His scan on me makes no sense. His game presence otherwise is minimal.

someone dodging questions huh

Chaeix posted...

What reason would town Ulti have to lie about being a star spirit? It would possibly draw Ben's scan and just expose the lie and make him look like scum. Bad move.

And if Ulti's Ben's scummate, do you really think that he lets Ben not claim the fake scan on him?

I might not have typed things well. I don't think that Town Ulti would lie about being a Star Spirit. I'm saying that Scum Ben would claim a scan on Town Ulti if it was Scum/Town, which is why I'm thinking that's not the case.

And if Ulti is Ben's Scummate, then idk. I think it is safer for Scum Ben to not claim a scan on Scum Ulti, especially since Ben's claim is weird and Ben was in the lynching hotseat.

Chaeix posted...

i believe much before but honestly don't remember.

Wasn't the track/watch claimed today?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

As for Ben, let's keep in mind - him scanning Redis fucking stupid. Why? Because he said "Red is not a Star Spirit." Why? Why scan someone and reveal that they can't fakeclaim a Star Spirit? Why not test Ulti? Why reveal at all? It's just so... dumb.

Also this. Me not being a star spirit to thebest of my knowledge should increase the outside look that I'm scum.

If anything, you should be clamoring for a STC. Hell I'd probably have given one.

The whole play is garbage.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I might not have typed things well. I don't think that Town Ulti would lie about being a Star Spirit. I'm saying that Scum Ben would claim a scan on Town Ulti if it was Scum/Town, which is why I'm thinking that's not the case.

And if Ulti is Ben's Scummate, then idk. I think it is safer for Scum Ben to not claim a scan on Scum Ulti, especially since Ben's claim is weird and Ben was in the lynching hotseat.

But if they're scumbuddies and Ben flips scum, does it actually mean anything for Ulti given that he was publicly the only star spirit? He was the only possible logical target for the scan so scum ben would have to gamble on a town Ulti either way. I think the read there ends up being a nulltell.

Chaeix posted...

i believe much before but honestly don't remember.

Then is it plausible that Ben was being honest with who he targeted out of tracker fear?

Perhaps he targeted Red with a scum action, so he committed to it in case a tracker contradicts him. Because until you claimed, nobody had any idea what tracker/watcher scans were out there, and scum via Sbell knew there was some sort of motion detection role on the townside.

Chaeix posted...

someone dodging questions huh

What question do you need answered. Been in a meeting all day haven't been sitting watching the topic.

Chaeix posted...

But if they're scumbuddies and Ben flips scum, does it actually mean anything for Ulti given that he was publicly the only star spirit? He was the only possible logical target for the scan so scum ben would have to gamble on a town Ulti either way. I think the read there ends up being a nulltell.

It's not a gamble for Scum Ben to "claim" a scan on Town Ulti.
It's a gamble for Scum Ben to "claim" a scan on Scum Ulti (Ulti dying would kill Ben).
I don't really understand why Town Ben would scan Red.

Kirby321 posted...

Then is it plausible that Ben was being honest with who he targeted out of tracker fear?

Perhaps he targeted Red with a scum action, so he committed to it in case a tracker contradicts him. Because until you claimed, nobody had any idea what tracker/watcher scans were out there, and scum via Sbell knew there was some sort of motion detection role on the townside.

This is an excellent point, hm.

Kirby321 posted...

Then is it plausible that Ben was being honest with who he targeted out of tracker fear?

Perhaps he targeted Red with a scum action, so he committed to it in case a tracker contradicts him. Because until you claimed, nobody had any idea what tracker/watcher scans were out there, and scum via Sbell knew there was some sort of motion detection role on the townside.

damn, yeah

Ben Scum flavor scanner let's kill him

What does that say about red, given that he hadn't given any indication of whether or not he is or isn't a star spirit at that point I believe?

Would scum ben gamble a lie on an unclaimed town? Unless scum has a flavor cop (or he is the flavor cop)

oh that's what you were getting at han

if ben is in fact scum, kirby gets huge town points for pointing that out, just making that clear

Well, I see no reason not to lynch Ben. If he flips a scum scanning role, then that most likely absolves Red and JC.

##Vote: Ben

oh wait scum would be able to state the logic easily never mind, don't read into it at all

Chaeix posted...

What does that say about red, given that he hadn't given any indication of whether or not he is or isn't a star spirit at that point I believe?

I think i inadvertent tipped too hard that i wasnt a star spirit. I thought it was obvious after the fact anyway. It was the first thing to stand out to me about bens scan.

Chaeix posted...

What does that say about red, given that he hadn't given any indication of whether or not he is or isn't a star spirit at that point I believe?

Would scum ben gamble a lie on an unclaimed town? Unless scum has a flavor cop (or he is the flavor cop)

oh that's what you were getting at han

Could just be that Ben and Red are Scummates.

Ben isn't lying in that instance. Red dying doesn't incriminate Ben, and Ben dying (if he's flavor scanner of some kind) doesn't incriminate Red.

Here's something I'd like to just lay out on the table:

I reread and said a lot of shit that pointed towards Plum looking bad.
Plum has said often this game that he thinks I am scum (for not doing something that I don't do as Scum).

After I do a lot of pushing towards Plum... he says nothing on it. Why? Wouldn't a Town Plum be more likely to OMGUS and keep pushing me? Why is Plum so hands off?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80350742

Go here at 450

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Could just be that Ben and Red are Scummates.

Ben isn't lying in that instance. Red dying doesn't incriminate Ben, and Ben dying (if he's flavor scanner of some kind) doesn't incriminate Red.

Plausible. But then my theory of Ben having tracker fear makes no sense, as I can't think of many scum roles that target one of their own.

So Ben would have to be lying about visiting scummate Red, which would be flagged by a tracker.

If we believe in scum Ben saying he scanned Red because he actually targeted Red last night, then Red must be Town.

I think this is the case but I just want to be 100% clear, Ulti claimed star spirit after Ben claimed seeker right?

Ooh so a Town Ben would clear Ulti and probably Plum, and a Scum Ben would clear Red

hmmmmmm

Kirby doing work to convince me to vote Ben over him

(btw, I think I'm at the point where it's either Ben or Kirby)

Chaeix posted...

I think this is the case but I just want to be 100% clear, Ulti claimed star spirit after Ben claimed seeker right?

Yeah. Ulti went wild on it "Not all Star Spirits have to be vanilla I can confirm" he said

I didnt scan Ulti because I already believed Ulti was town both for saying his role exists in tandem with mine and because Sbell tried to get him kicked out of the game. Ulti was the only one who said they were a star spirit so I didnt have anyone else i could confirm. I was taking a shot in the dark and I chose Red because he was the most in the dark.

It is really hard to know whether to kill ben without knowing Han and Ctes roles

My only hold up is with no cop Ben's role seems like it fits in the setup as a way to prove town vanillas.

Star Spirit finder might just be a really dumb idea and there's only one Town Star Spirit in the game

Chaeix posted...

if ben is in fact scum, kirby gets huge town points for pointing that out, just making that clear

You've already rethought this a post later, but yeah I was just thinking that Kirby has been after Ben all game, so if they've already made the decision to bus Ben, then this doesn't really do anything to confirm alignments.

The thing I have to personally consider is that earlier I was fairly certain that Kirby and Ben would be opposing alignments due to Kirby's pursuit of Ben earlier before they really needed to. I know other people have been saying they don't see it the same way and can have Kirby and Ben together on their proposed scum teams.

So I'm just looking at motivation. If Kirby doesn't think they can drum up enough support to lynch me, and a lot of people are listing them and Ben as primary lynch candidates, then the play is to commit to the bus and try to use that as credit to keep going after me tomorrow once we're both alive.

I will definitely admit that there is some post-hoc rationalizing going on here, but that's the framework I've been given to work with.

Still want Kirby > Ben, but I'm okay with Ben here.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Star Spirit finder might just be a really dumb idea and there's only one Town Star Spirit in the game

Cody and Isquen were both stars right?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Star Spirit finder might just be a really dumb idea and there's only one Town Star Spirit in the game

There are at least... 2? One dead that flipped and me? I thought there were several more though.

No looks like 2 are dead so 3

EDumey posted...

Cody and Isquen were both stars right?

I forgot Cody existed

How dare you.

Dumey, if Kirby is not the lynch, will you claim?

Kirby321 posted...

Then is it plausible that Ben was being honest with who he targeted out of tracker fear?

Perhaps he targeted Red with a scum action, so he committed to it in case a tracker contradicts him. Because until you claimed, nobody had any idea what tracker/watcher scans were out there, and scum via Sbell knew there was some sort of motion detection role on the townside.

If Ben is scum he knows a claimed tracker is roleblocked, so it's not a huge gamble.

ctesjbuvf posted...

If Ben is scum he knows a claimed tracker is roleblocked, so it's not a huge gamble.

i claimed tracker today after he revealed his scan, they didn't know what they were blocking

Chaeix posted...

i claimed tracker today after he revealed his scan, they didn't know what they were blocking

Oh yeah that's true.

Chaeix posted...

Dumey, if Kirby is not the lynch, will you claim?

No. Not sure how many times I need to repeat. I want scum to have less information going into the night, not more.

I'll tell you this much. I don't think if I claimed, it would convince a Town Kirby to decide to not shoot me anyway. Me claiming literally only gives scum more info. I'm not doing it.

Hold on a sec

Why did ulti vote kirby today

UltimaterializerX posted...

Town post. This dude voted for not the guy Im tied with.

GET OFF KIRBY.

##Unvote
##Vote: Han

At least give me one more night so I can confirm if Plum is telling the truth or not. If he is and it unlocks his sealed powers, all the better! But i really fear he is scum and scum NEED me dead today to pull off a successful gambit.

This man Ben is still prattling on about sealed powers lmfao

Bitch if you actually believe that then you would have scanned Ulti last night

Get outta here

UltimaterializerX posted...

##Unvote
##Vote: Kirby

That really does reek of a bad safe list fakeclaim.

Nah, I don't think kirby whiplashes like that

That's where we should go

##Vote:Ulti

Er, Ulti*