Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 7 - Mario is missing

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MZero 02/15/23 3:19:50 AM #1:	Alive (11): Ben Ctes Dumey Han Hb JC Kirby Peaf Plum Red Ulti Shredded: LD1: Isquen Eldstar, TOWN Vanilla KN1: Lea Bombette, TOWN Bomb KN1: SBell - Koopa Bros., KOOPA TROOP Ninjas LD2: Sultan Mario, TOWN Hero KN2: death Lady Bow, TOWN Doctor KN2: Cody Muskular, TOWN Vanilla With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day ends at 9:00 P.M. Eastern (or 42 hours from now). --- MZero, to the extreme https://www.twitch.tv/kabazame <cite>MZero posted [p:971577203] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Alive (11):BenCtesDumeyHanHbJCKirbyPeafPlumRedUlti Shredded:LD1: Isquen Eldstar, TOWN Vanilla KN1: Lea Bombette, TOWN BombKN1: SBell - Koopa Bros., KOOPA TROOP NinjasLD2: Sultan Mario, TOWN Hero KN2: death Lady Bow, TOWN DoctorKN2: Cody Muskular, TOWN VanillaWith 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day ends at 9:00 P.M. Eastern (or 42 hours from now).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Chaeix 02/15/23 3:23:13 AM #2:	Han I appreciate that you're doing the same "or am I the doctor? dohoho" thing that I did yesterday if you're town I just, you know, have trust issues. But I am very specifically considering the fact that you are aware of what the 'reward' for ctes targeting you is. But again, I am somewhat concerned that if I've figured it out, scum will have figured it out and will do the 'correct' night actions anyways. So I have to weigh that peace of mind with being able to move on vs possibly illusory utility. Like, you have to appreciate the challenging position I'm in if you're town. You're hoping I come to a conclusion that allows me to trust you for at least this vote, where I might die after even if I trust you. And on top of that, sorry to repeat myself, but if it's a train of thought I might be able to follow to the point of being able to trust it, scum should be able to follow it to the point they can work around it. That's where my concern is with placing any kind of conditional trust. The answer may be something that I can't imagine right now, but that's exactly the challenge. I can't just trust that you have some ex machina that's none of the possibilities I'm considering. --- we're all buds~jc~ <DeathChicken> you are my hero for being the first person to cite National Geographic in Mercs <cite>Chaeix posted [p:971577225] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Han I appreciate that you're doing the same "or am I the doctor? dohoho" thing that I did yesterday if you're town I just, you know, have trust issues.But I am very specifically considering the fact that you are aware of what the 'reward' for ctes targeting you is.But again, I am somewhat concerned that if I've figured it out, scum will have figured it out and will do the 'correct' night actions anyways. So I have to weigh that peace of mind with being able to move on vs possibly illusory utility.Like, you have to appreciate the challenging position I'm in if you're town. You're hoping I come to a conclusion that allows me to trust you for at least this vote, where I might die after even if I trust you. And on top of that, sorry to repeat myself, but if it's a train of thought I might be able to follow to the point of being able to trust it, scum should be able to follow it to the point they can work around it.That's where my concern is with placing any kind of conditional trust. The answer may be something that I can't imagine right now, but that's exactly the challenge. I can't just trust that you have some ex machina that's none of the possibilities I'm considering.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ctesjbuvf 02/15/23 4:51:40 AM #3:	I really don't think there is any purpose of me claiming at this instance. I get the comfort in knowing everything for solving. But all that's important really just is that I was able to confirm Han town last night using an action that was not possible for me to use the first night, which seems fair since Han was also able to confirm me town with it. I don't mean to hide information here but I doubt the situation at hand would be much different if I actually claimed because any additional information here doesn't change the situation and shouldn't make any of you trust it more if you don't know while it might benefit scum knowing exactly how it works. When I say confirm it's within the same certainty as when I said it was almost impossible for Cody to lie about being burned yesterday when there was host confirmation about PMs being delayed. It is almost impossible for Han to not be town. And JC, I get the point about being able to RB one of us and then kill the other, but you should be able to figure out my action for my flip if it comes to that, and who knows, maybe we can hit RB today. So the current stance of the game for me is Han is town JC is town Ctes is town Peaf is probably town HB is probably town Kirby, plum and to a lesser extent red has at some points of the game given me reason to think they are town, though I'm also willing to believe I have been wrong about someone. Ben is obviously in a weird place but I doubt the role exists, or at least, if it does, that it isn't simply Kammy Koppa or Bowser with a similar mission. I think correct play last night would have been actually scanning Ulti because either result there had at least conditional use. I can see both being scum. Ben mentioning that SBell and Ulti couldn't be scum together because of the replacement comments was always off to me. Finally, there's Dumey, who at this point is pretty hard to picture not being part of any scum team. If not then he has certainly been unfortunate with how things have gone. But I also don't think it's just PoE. Let me ask you something, Dumey. Han suggested you convinced him of voting me and your response was that you had very little reason to, only our Lea accusation misunderstanding (in lack of better thing to call it), yet voted for me anyway later on, on the other side of me having a chance to claim, how did I suddenly become your most wanted lynch? --- Guinness Book of World Records is the name of the diary that belongs to azuarc, the winner of the Game of the Decade II guru contest. <cite>ctesjbuvf posted [p:971577835] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>I really don't think there is any purpose of me claiming at this instance. I get the comfort in knowing everything for solving. But all that's important really just is that I was able to confirm Han town last night using an action that was not possible for me to use the first night, which seems fair since Han was also able to confirm me town with it. I don't mean to hide information here but I doubt the situation at hand would be much different if I actually claimed because any additional information here doesn't change the situation and shouldn't make any of you trust it more if you don't know while it might benefit scum knowing exactly how it works. When I say confirm it's within the same certainty as when I said it was almost impossible for Cody to lie about being burned yesterday when there was host confirmation about PMs being delayed. It is almost impossible for Han to not be town. And JC, I get the point about being able to RB one of us and then kill the other, but you should be able to figure out my action for my flip if it comes to that, and who knows, maybe we can hit RB today.So the current stance of the game for me is Han is townJC is townCtes is townPeaf is probably townHB is probably townKirby, plum and to a lesser extent red has at some points of the game given me reason to think they are town, though I'm also willing to believe I have been wrong about someone. Ben is obviously in a weird place but I doubt the role exists, or at least, if it does, that it isn't simply Kammy Koppa or Bowser with a similar mission. I think correct play last night would have been actually scanning Ulti because either result there had at least conditional use. I can see both being scum. Ben mentioning that SBell and Ulti couldn't be scum together because of the replacement comments was always off to me.Finally, there's Dumey, who at this point is pretty hard to picture not being part of any scum team. If not then he has certainly been unfortunate with how things have gone. But I also don't think it's just PoE. Let me ask you something, Dumey. Han suggested you convinced him of voting me and your response was that you had very little reason to, only our Lea accusation misunderstanding (in lack of better thing to call it), yet voted for me anyway later on, on the other side of me having a chance to claim, how did I suddenly become your most wanted lynch?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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masterplum 02/15/23 6:35:38 AM #5:	Ctes Im going to need more than that. If you are town scum already knows you are telling the truth and are going to die so I need to know how exactly confirmed town Han is, because it wouldnt be the first time someone claimed confirmed town when really it was just an innocent scan or something Regardless ##Vote:Ben I think there are two options here The best town player in the game matches my thoughts exactly that Bens role made no sense Han is scum and is trying to bus on his way out. I dont see a scenario where Han is scum and Ben is town. I didnt get that possibility at all from Hans posts. So I think regardless of Hans status, Ben is the way to go --- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdWiElvIQAAQpBt.jpg <cite>masterplum posted [p:971578485] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Ctes Im going to need more than that. If you are town scum already knows you are telling the truth and are going to die so I need to know how exactly confirmed town Han is, because it wouldnt be the first time someone claimed confirmed town when really it was just an innocent scan or something Regardless##Vote:BenI think there are two options here The best town player in the game matches my thoughts exactly that Bens role made no sense Han is scum and is trying to bus on his way out.I dont see a scenario where Han is scum and Ben is town. I didnt get that possibility at all from Hans posts.So I think regardless of Hans status, Ben is the way to go</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
masterplum 02/15/23 6:37:24 AM #6:	I also think mass claims are dumb. The only thing I care about is if Bens role makes sense to anyone. --- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdWiElvIQAAQpBt.jpg <cite>masterplum posted [p:971578502] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>I also think mass claims are dumb. The only thing I care about is if Bens role makes sense to anyone. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 6:58:48 AM #7:	I'm just waking up and catching up but Kirby321 posted... But oof... if Sultan killed Lea, then the game would've already been over if scum killed someone that wasn't Sultan or Lea in this hypothetical. So five scum just seems a little too volatile. What the fuck game are you reading dude --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971578647] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>I'm just waking up and catching up but<cite>Kirby321 posted... </cite><quote>But oof... if Sultan killed Lea, then the game would've already been over if scum killed someone that wasn't Sultan or Lea in this hypothetical. So five scum just seems a little too volatile.</quote>What the fuck game are you reading dude </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ctesjbuvf 02/15/23 7:08:40 AM #8:	masterplum posted... Ctes Im going to need more than that. If you are town scum already knows you are telling the truth and are going to die so I need to know how exactly confirmed town Han is, because it wouldnt be the first time someone claimed confirmed town when really it was just an innocent scan or something I tried to compare to how confirmed Cody's burn was, which was basically host confirmed. It is technically possible that Han is scum but it is almost impossible. If I die, this information is not lost, it simply means I'm not going to be able to provide more information. Also there is a chance that we get the RB today which means one of JC and I will have something. --- Guinness Book of World Records is the name of the diary that belongs to azuarc, the winner of the Game of the Decade II guru contest. <cite>ctesjbuvf posted [p:971578752] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>masterplum posted... </cite><quote>Ctes Im going to need more than that. If you are town scum already knows you are telling the truth and are going to die so I need to know how exactly confirmed town Han is, because it wouldnt be the first time someone claimed confirmed town when really it was just an innocent scan or something</quote>I tried to compare to how confirmed Cody's burn was, which was basically host confirmed. It is technically possible that Han is scum but it is almost impossible. If I die, this information is not lost, it simply means I'm not going to be able to provide more information. Also there is a chance that we get the RB today which means one of JC and I will have something. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 7:09:51 AM #9:	masterplum posted... I also think mass claims are dumb. The only thing I care about is if Bens role makes sense to anyone. Do you even READ anything? You're quickly dropping off of the confirmed town list ctesjbuvf posted... HB is probably town Kirby, plum and to a lesser extent red has at some points of the game given me reason to think they are town, though I'm also willing to believe I have been wrong about someone. How. How how how. Han in the last topic saying that i brought his name off just to jump out is SO disingenuous. And in post 456 he's like hmmmm maybe peaf isn't as town as i thought if plum is scum... you're fucking joking. I made a case against my top suspect. I then commented on the ONE OTHER MAJOR THING HAPPENING SINCE THE DAY HAD STARTED NOT EVEN 2 HOURS EARLIER. And then I stayed up for an extra hour and a half to entertain him. There is no fucking way you can say "eh it's just scummy that peaf brought up my name then left :)" --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971578760] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>masterplum posted... </cite><quote>I also think mass claims are dumb. The only thing I care about is if Bens role makes sense to anyone.</quote>Do you even READ anything? You're quickly dropping off of the confirmed town listctesjbuvf posted... </cite><quote>HB is probably townKirby, plum and to a lesser extent red has at some points of the game given me reason to think they are town, though I'm also willing to believe I have been wrong about someone.</quote>How. How how how. Han in the last topic saying that i brought his name off just to jump out is SO disingenuous. And in post 456 he's like hmmmm maybe peaf isn't as town as i thought if plum is scum... you're fucking joking. I made a case against my top suspect. I then commented on the ONE OTHER MAJOR THING HAPPENING SINCE THE DAY HAD STARTED NOT EVEN 2 HOURS EARLIER. And then I stayed up for an extra hour and a half to entertain him. There is no fucking way you can say "eh it's just scummy that peaf brought up my name then left :)"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ctesjbuvf 02/15/23 7:10:00 AM #10:	Peace___Frog posted... I'm just waking up and catching up but What the fuck game are you reading dude He's not suggesting it as something that could've happened, he's suggesting that 5 scum would not make sense because of how quickly that makes town lose if Sultan blows up Lea and himself. --- Guinness Book of World Records is the name of the diary that belongs to azuarc, the winner of the Game of the Decade II guru contest. <cite>ctesjbuvf posted [p:971578762] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Peace___Frog posted... </cite><quote>I'm just waking up and catching up butWhat the fuck game are you reading dude</quote>He's not suggesting it as something that could've happened, he's suggesting that 5 scum would not make sense because of how quickly that makes town lose if Sultan blows up Lea and himself. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 7:14:10 AM #11:	Why should we assume that a role called hero can kill town? This is already obviously not a normal vig. I'm with jc in assuming a maximum number of possible scum at this time. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971578802] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Why should we assume that a role called hero can kill town? This is already obviously not a normal vig. I'm with jc in assuming a maximum number of possible scum at this time. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ctesjbuvf 02/15/23 7:16:01 AM #12:	That's fair I was just explaining what I was pretty certain he meant. Peace___Frog posted... How. How how how. Han in the last topic saying that i brought his name off just to jump out is SO disingenuous. And in post 456 he's like hmmmm maybe peaf isn't as town as i thought if plum is scum... you're f*ing joking. I made a case against my top suspect. I then commented on the ONE OTHER MAJOR THING HAPPENING SINCE THE DAY HAD STARTED NOT EVEN 2 HOURS EARLIER. And then I stayed up for an extra hour and a half to entertain him. There is no fing way you can say "eh it's just scummy that peaf brought up my name then left :)" I apologize but I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. --- Guinness Book of World Records is the name of the diary that belongs to azuarc, the winner of the Game of the Decade II guru contest. <cite>ctesjbuvf posted [p:971578815] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>That's fair I was just explaining what I was pretty certain he meant.Peace___Frog posted... </cite><quote>How. How how how.Han in the last topic saying that i brought his name off just to jump out is SO disingenuous. And in post 456 he's like hmmmm maybe peaf isn't as town as i thought if plum is scum... you're fing joking. I made a case against my top suspect. I then commented on the ONE OTHER MAJOR THING HAPPENING SINCE THE DAY HAD STARTED NOT EVEN 2 HOURS EARLIER. And then I stayed up for an extra hour and a half to entertain him. There is no f*ing way you can say "eh it's just scummy that peaf brought up my name then left :)"</quote>I apologize but I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 7:22:46 AM #13:	What I'm saying is, first: How do you think hb is town whatsoever? Secondly: Where do you see Kirby acting townish recently? Thirdly: Han is putting forward a deliberately false sequence of events in order to sow doubt about me and confuse town members. For all his insistence about "analyze why i would do this as scum" he's remarkably lazy about doing it for others. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971578892] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>What I'm saying is, first: How do you think hb is town whatsoever?Secondly: Where do you see Kirby acting townish recently? Thirdly: Han is putting forward a deliberately false sequence of events in order to sow doubt about me and confuse town members. For all his insistence about "analyze why i would do this as scum" he's remarkably lazy about doing it for others. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 7:24:22 AM #14:	Also you can't not see the parallels between Han saying "no need to mass!" last game and now once again here. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971578908] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Also you can't not see the parallels between Han saying "no need to mass!" last game and now once again here. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 7:26:52 AM #15:	Separately - color me disappointed that red hasn't said a word, given his supposed sadness in previous irl nights that the game was quiet. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971578926] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Separately - color me disappointed that red hasn't said a word, given his supposed sadness in previous irl nights that the game was quiet. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
masterplum 02/15/23 7:27:55 AM #16:	Peace___Frog posted... Also you can't not see the parallels between Han saying "no need to mass!" last game and now once again here. Just because scum Han didnt want to mass doesnt mean massing is a good idea. Ive been anti mass outside of extremely specific circumstances for the better part of 10 years --- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdWiElvIQAAQpBt.jpg <cite>masterplum posted [p:971578938] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Peace___Frog posted... </cite><quote>Also you can't not see the parallels between Han saying "no need to mass!" last game and now once again here.</quote>Just because scum Han didnt want to mass doesnt mean massing is a good idea.Ive been anti mass outside of extremely specific circumstances for the better part of 10 years </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 7:30:26 AM #17:	I'm not saying that it is necessarily a good idea, nor is it my main argument against Han. But you can't deny the parallels and how he likes to keep town as confused as possible when he is scum. I'm not picking up what jc is alluding to, so all i see is two scummy guys going "yo trust me bro". --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971578966] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>I'm not saying that it is necessarily a good idea, nor is it my main argument against Han. But you can't deny the parallels and how he likes to keep town as confused as possible when he is scum. I'm not picking up what jc is alluding to, so all i see is two scummy guys going "yo trust me bro".</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 7:32:22 AM #19:	Peaf, I'm not putting forward a false sequence about you in order to sow doubt. I still think you're Town and should be treated as such. I'm sorry if my late night musings seemed to imply that direction. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971578982] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Peaf, I'm not putting forward a false sequence about you in order to sow doubt.I still think you're Town and should be treated as such.I'm sorry if my late night musings seemed to imply that direction.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ctesjbuvf 02/15/23 7:34:21 AM #21:	Most of Hb posts early reads as frustrated and now wrong town to me. In particular fighting for the Sultan lynch on day 1. Occasionally since he has made some posts giving me town vibes. Lack of contribution or not standing out is the biggest thing against him imo and I don't think that means something bad. I have seen him a surprisingly manner times with some scanner role that he usually resolved much of his play around, so maybe this is just not having that to go. I don't think there has been anything particular about Kirby recently and I didn't say that. I said "at some point of the game" it was a stance I took on day 1. I immediately followed up with willingness to accept some of those were wrong too even. I just don't have anything as concrete I want to follow here as with several of the other players. I don't get all of Han's play either, some of it has made sense rereading, some of it I still don't think was good play, but this would not be the first time that would show to not be alignment indicative. Han in particular often plays in ways to fish for reactions. In general, I feel like more often than not making confusing or incorrect sequences of thoughts ends up being town because scum are more careful about how they tread. Not a rule or anything but yeah. --- Guinness Book of World Records is the name of the diary that belongs to azuarc, the winner of the Game of the Decade II guru contest. <cite>ctesjbuvf posted [p:971578995] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Most of Hb posts early reads as frustrated and now wrong town to me. In particular fighting for the Sultan lynch on day 1. Occasionally since he has made some posts giving me town vibes. Lack of contribution or not standing out is the biggest thing against him imo and I don't think that means something bad. I have seen him a surprisingly manner times with some scanner role that he usually resolved much of his play around, so maybe this is just not having that to go.I don't think there has been anything particular about Kirby recently and I didn't say that. I said "at some point of the game" it was a stance I took on day 1. I immediately followed up with willingness to accept some of those were wrong too even. I just don't have anything as concrete I want to follow here as with several of the other players. I don't get all of Han's play either, some of it has made sense rereading, some of it I still don't think was good play, but this would not be the first time that would show to not be alignment indicative. Han in particular often plays in ways to fish for reactions.In general, I feel like more often than not making confusing or incorrect sequences of thoughts ends up being town because scum are more careful about how they tread. Not a rule or anything but yeah.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 7:35:21 AM #22:	UltimaterializerX posted... If we cant get a mass, then Han and ctes should at least clear this stuff up. You first --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971579008] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>UltimaterializerX posted... </cite><quote>If we cant get a mass, then Han and ctes should at least clear this stuff up.</quote>You first</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 7:36:30 AM #23:	Because right now, Ulti, you have to have something from last night if you indeed have a role that interacts with Ben's purpose in any meaningful way. Or there's no reason to think he's Town with that claim. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971579018] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Because right now, Ulti, you have to have something from last night if you indeed have a role that interacts with Ben's purpose in any meaningful way.Or there's no reason to think he's Town with that claim.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 7:38:18 AM #24:	Peace___Frog posted... And in post 456 he's like hmmmm maybe peaf isn't as town as i thought if plum is scum... ??? I never said your name in post 456 --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971579037] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Peace___Frog posted... </cite><quote>And in post 456 he's like hmmmm maybe peaf isn't as town as i thought if plum is scum... </quote>??? I never said your name in post 456</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 7:48:18 AM #25:	HanOfTheNekos posted... ??? I never said your name in post 456 Sorry, 458 HanOfTheNekos posted... I'm more Town mad at JC voting me and Peaf bandying my name about a bit before he hopped off. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971579132] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>HanOfTheNekos posted... </cite><quote>??? I never said your name in post 456</quote>Sorry, 458<cite>HanOfTheNekos posted... </cite><quote>I'm more Town mad at JC voting me and Peaf bandying my name about a bit before he hopped off.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 7:49:20 AM #26:	Peace___Frog posted... For the record, i think that han was likely bussing Kirby on day 1 with that initial train - --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971579145] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote><cite>Peace___Frog posted... </cite><quote>For the record, i think that han was likely bussing Kirby on day 1 with that initial train -</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 7:51:59 AM #27:	Peace___Frog posted... Sorry, 458 And 356 HanOfTheNekos posted... Man, what if all vanillas are Star Spirits and Peaf really is Scum? So it is not 456, it is 356 and 458 --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971579183] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Peace___Frog posted... </cite><quote>Sorry, 458</quote>And 356<cite>HanOfTheNekos posted... </cite><quote>Man, what if all vanillas are Star Spirits and Peaf really is Scum?</quote>So it is not 456, it is 356 and 458</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 7:53:48 AM #28:	The way you word that implies that i did a hit and run. I did nothing of the sort. You're also ignoring my main point in Peace___Frog posted... I made a case against my top suspect. I then commented on the ONE OTHER MAJOR THING HAPPENING SINCE THE DAY HAD STARTED NOT EVEN 2 HOURS EARLIER. And then I stayed up for an extra hour and a half to entertain him. There is no fucking way you can say "eh it's just scummy that peaf brought up my name then left :)" Bolded so you wouldn't miss it again, friend --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971579205] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>The way you word that implies that i did a hit and run. I did nothing of the sort. You're also ignoring my main point inPeace___Frog posted... </cite><quote>I made a case against my top suspect. I then commented on the ONE OTHER MAJOR THING HAPPENING SINCE THE DAY HAD STARTED NOT EVEN 2 HOURS EARLIER. And then I stayed up for an extra hour and a half to entertain him. There is no fucking way you can say "eh it's just scummy that peaf brought up my name then left :)"</quote>Bolded so you wouldn't miss it again, friend</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 7:56:12 AM #30:	Peace___Frog posted... The way you word that implies that i did a hit and run. I did nothing of the sort. You're also ignoring my main point in I didn't process most of the earlier posts in the day because it was late and I was sort of just focusing on my name. And "What if" is not really implying, it's like... "Man, that would be so crazy". I think you're blowing things way out of proportion. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971579229] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Peace___Frog posted... </cite><quote>The way you word that implies that i did a hit and run. I did nothing of the sort. You're also ignoring my main point in</quote>I didn't process most of the earlier posts in the day because it was late and I was sort of just focusing on my name.And "What if" is not really implying, it's like... "Man, that would be so crazy".I think you're blowing things way out of proportion.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 7:59:09 AM #31:	UltimaterializerX posted... I actually do think Ben is mafia flavor scanner, but I learned a really hard lesson in Dota 2 about killing the only claimed scanner, so unless someone else does something JC claimed to be a scanner I think Sultan has semi-scanning capabilities, though I haven't read the role well-enough No reason to fish for another scanner --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971579265] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>UltimaterializerX posted... </cite><quote>I actually do think Ben is mafia flavor scanner, but I learned a really hard lesson in Dota 2 about killing the only claimed scanner, so unless someone else does something</quote>JC claimed to be a scannerI think Sultan has semi-scanning capabilities, though I haven't read the role well-enoughNo reason to fish for another scanner </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 7:59:33 AM #32:	Ben could be lying and could be mafia flavor scanner. I don't dispute that. My issue is with people coming to that conclusion because: The role is weird and they can't see how it fits into the game (I already spelled this out in the last topic, i explicitly gave han the post numbers where i talked through it all). All vanillas are stars (I know this to be 100% false given my own role) Other similar arguments Furthermore, han - if you think Ben is scum and is lying about his allegiance in this game, then why do you believe his description of his power? --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971579270] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Ben could be lying and could be mafia flavor scanner. I don't dispute that. My issue is with people coming to that conclusion because:The role is weird and they can't see how it fits into the game (I already spelled this out in the last topic, i explicitly gave han the post numbers where i talked through it all).All vanillas are stars (I know this to be 100% false given my own role)Other similar argumentsFurthermore, han - if you think Ben is scum and is lying about his allegiance in this game, then why do you believe his description of his power? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ctesjbuvf 02/15/23 8:01:15 AM #33:	UltimaterializerX posted... I actually do think Ben is mafia flavor scanner, but I learned a really hard lesson in Dota 2 about killing the only claimed scanner, so unless someone else does something Im not touching him. ctes knows where Im coming from on that one I think :( Won't forget in a long time lol. But that was an example of a mass claim that actually cost town the game because it resulted in two mislynches. Of course, Lopen's role that game was of a different caliber, but I still think it shows that there are better times to put all info out there than others. Fwiw, Ben is not the only claimed scanner. --- Guinness Book of World Records is the name of the diary that belongs to azuarc, the winner of the Game of the Decade II guru contest. <cite>ctesjbuvf posted [p:971579297] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>UltimaterializerX posted... </cite><quote>I actually do think Ben is mafia flavor scanner, but I learned a really hard lesson in Dota 2 about killing the only claimed scanner, so unless someone else does something Im not touching him. ctes knows where Im coming from on that one I think :(</quote>Won't forget in a long time lol. But that was an example of a mass claim that actually cost town the game because it resulted in two mislynches. Of course, Lopen's role that game was of a different caliber, but I still think it shows that there are better times to put all info out there than others. Fwiw, Ben is not the only claimed scanner. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 8:03:30 AM #34:	Peace___Frog posted... Furthermore, han - if you think Ben is scum and is lying about his allegiance in this game, then why do you believe his description of his power? I don't per se. I just have been considering situations in which is makes sense. And yeah, if you could restate your argument on him in easy bullet points because last night it mostly didn't feel compelling to me at all so maybe I just had trouble processing it. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971579317] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Peace___Frog posted... </cite><quote>Furthermore, han - if you think Ben is scum and is lying about his allegiance in this game, then why do you believe his description of his power?</quote>I don't per se. I just have been considering situations in which is makes sense.And yeah, if you could restate your argument on him in easy bullet points because last night it mostly didn't feel compelling to me at all so maybe I just had trouble processing it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 8:42:02 AM #35:	Maybe Ulti's flavor is "Pancakes" because all he's done this game is flip flop. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971579774] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Maybe Ulti's flavor is "Pancakes" because all he's done this game is flip flop.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 8:57:23 AM #36:	HanOfTheNekos posted... I don't per se. I just have been considering situations in which is makes sense. And yeah, if you could restate your argument on him in easy bullet points because last night it mostly didn't feel compelling to me at all so maybe I just had trouble processing it. Well it will help if you actually read Sultan's flip. I'm going to be occupied for a few hours here so i can't really repeat it all in detail. It basically boils down to: Sultan's role has to jump their multiple hoops and has a conditional downside to being wrong with one choice, or a minor conditional pity piece of info if wrong with the other choice. You raised the "vig has to shoot in the dark too" possibility but have since admitted the you didn't really read sultan's flip. From my perspective, sultan is half as effectivev as vig since he has to line up with flavor. Ben's role is the only thing we've seen so far that could possibly clue Sultan in to that flavor, by basically telling him who not to target - without telling either of them that the non-star players are explicitly scum. Sbell's role was written in the way that it was so that scum didn't get free explicit information about what scanning capabilities town has. It's good hosting, not a red herring. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971579971] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>HanOfTheNekos posted... </cite><quote>I don't per se. I just have been considering situations in which is makes sense.And yeah, if you could restate your argument on him in easy bullet points because last night it mostly didn't feel compelling to me at all so maybe I just had trouble processing it.</quote>Well it will help if you actually read Sultan's flip. I'm going to be occupied for a few hours here so i can't really repeat it all in detail. It basically boils down to:Sultan's role has to jump their multiple hoops and has a conditional downside to being wrong with one choice, or a minor conditional pity piece of info if wrong with the other choice. You raised the "vig has to shoot in the dark too" possibility but have since admitted the you didn't really read sultan's flip. From my perspective, sultan is half as effectivev as vig since he has to line up with flavor. Ben's role is the only thing we've seen so far that could possibly clue Sultan in to that flavor, by basically telling him who not to target - without telling either of them that the non-star players are explicitly scum. Sbell's role was written in the way that it was so that scum didn't get free explicit information about what scanning capabilities town has. It's good hosting, not a red herring. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 9:05:22 AM #37:	I actually just read back, and I'm sorry, but you don't have a good argument and it's honestly baffling that you call Ben "confirmed Town" for a role flip that he doesn't have anything to do with. Here's a hypothetical for you: If somebody else came forward and offered a similar role to Ben's, do you still think he's confirmed? A better role? Your idea that Ben's claim interacts with Mario role is just wrong. It requires two claims and free offering of information to go off. And it'd be pretty dumb to have a role that's "you have a like 15% chance to find a Star Spirit at random. Otherwise, you have shit. Also, without being told, you should know it's important to offer this information up to the town so that a role you don't know exists can get multiple jumps in a row." I don't think that's good design. In the slightest. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971580086] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>I actually just read back, and I'm sorry, but you don't have a good argument and it's honestly baffling that you call Ben "confirmed Town" for a role flip that he doesn't have anything to do with.Here's a hypothetical for you:If somebody else came forward and offered a similar role to Ben's, do you still think he's confirmed? A better role?Your idea that Ben's claim interacts with Mario role is just wrong. It requires two claims and free offering of information to go off. And it'd be pretty dumb to have a role that's "you have a like 15% chance to find a Star Spirit at random. Otherwise, you have shit. Also, without being told, you should know it's important to offer this information up to the town so that a role you don't know exists can get multiple jumps in a row."I don't think that's good design. In the slightest.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 9:14:04 AM #38:	Like, you want to say that Sultan's power is hard to get off successfully - sure. But that's directly offsetted by him being an infinite vig. It's not offset by Ben having a magic epiphany that Mario needs his information which makes Ben claim D2 to offer up that "Hey, 1 out of like 14 players remaining is not a specific subset of 7 characters". Like, goodie. Ben found out that someone is either Luigi or Bowser or Kamek or Kooper or Watt or Lackilester or Tayce T. or Peach or Big Lantern Ghost or Parakarry or King Goomba or Dry Bones or Bombette or Koopa Bros. or Mario or Goombario or Paper Mario or Merlon or Tubba Blubba or Yoshi or Lava Piranha or Raphael the Raven or Red Goomba or Blue Goomba or General Guy... --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971580224] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Like, you want to say that Sultan's power is hard to get off successfully - sure. But that's directly offsetted by him being an infinite vig.It's not offset by Ben having a magic epiphany that Mario needs his information which makes Ben claim D2 to offer up that "Hey, 1 out of like 14 players remaining is not a specific subset of 7 characters". Like, goodie. Ben found out that someone is either Luigi or Bowser or Kamek or Kooper or Watt or Lackilester or Tayce T. or Peach or Big Lantern Ghost or Parakarry or King Goomba or Dry Bones or Bombette or Koopa Bros. or Mario or Goombario or Paper Mario or Merlon or Tubba Blubba or Yoshi or Lava Piranha or Raphael the Raven or Red Goomba or Blue Goomba or General Guy...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 9:14:52 AM #39:	Like, Ben's "role" has no more utility to Sultan than somebody claiming their flavor. It has way less, actually. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971580238] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Like, Ben's "role" has no more utility to Sultan than somebody claiming their flavor. It has way less, actually.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 9:20:35 AM #40:	It has nothing to do with jumps. You're still not actually reading. Do that, please. No one else has provided anything better. But as I already said to Kirby, if a second flavor scanner claimed that made sense with respect to the action part of Sultan's role, then i would buy both it and Ben, yes. It is not 15% unless you know that more than half of the 7 stars are on the fakeclaim list. I'm assuming that at least 4 of them are in the game, which gives Ben exactly a 25% chance of finding one star on night 1. All information from power roles is potentially useless. There's a chance that cop scans a player who dies and then cop has shit, does that mean that cop is worthless? --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971580325] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>It has nothing to do with jumps. You're still not actually reading. Do that, please. No one else has provided anything better. But as I already said to Kirby, if a second flavor scanner claimed that made sense with respect to the action part of Sultan's role, then i would buy both it and Ben, yes. It is not 15% unless you know that more than half of the 7 stars are on the fakeclaim list. I'm assuming that at least 4 of them are in the game, which gives Ben exactly a 25% chance of finding one star on night 1.All information from power roles is potentially useless. There's a chance that cop scans a player who dies and then cop has shit, does that mean that cop is worthless? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 9:22:32 AM #41:	On the flip side, Ben saying "this player is a character that sultan can not kill and is town" means that we get info in the form of alignment, and sultan can narrow down his poe! --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971580362] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>On the flip side, Ben saying "this player is a character that sultan can not kill and is town" means that we get info in the form of alignment, and sultan can narrow down his poe!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 9:24:39 AM #42:	Peace___Frog posted... I'm assuming that at least 4 of them are in the game why --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971580398] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Peace___Frog posted... </cite><quote> I'm assuming that at least 4 of them are in the game</quote>why</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 9:26:22 AM #43:	You're making an assumption based off of a somewhat illogical connection that, because Sultan has abilities that can kill, Ben has to magically know this and put information forward for him. It's not good design. It's a worse role than JC's "die after D3" role from last game. At least that one provides real info. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971580427] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>You're making an assumption based off of a somewhat illogical connection that, because Sultan has abilities that can kill, Ben has to magically know this and put information forward for him.It's not good design. It's a worse role than JC's "die after D3" role from last game. At least that one provides real info.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 9:28:32 AM #44:	Like, even if you believe that MZero designed a role to require psychic connection, how does that "confirm" Ben? Why can't a Scum just be claiming a weak scanning role that is easy to fake if they have a flavor scanner? If Flavor is so important, then why is Ben's role specifically the proof of concept? You're trying to fit any peg possible into a square hole, and Ben's the only peg, but everything fits into a square hole and that's what you're not accepting, I feel. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971580452] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Like, even if you believe that MZero designed a role to require psychic connection, how does that "confirm" Ben?Why can't a Scum just be claiming a weak scanning role that is easy to fake if they have a flavor scanner?If Flavor is so important, then why is Ben's role specifically the proof of concept? You're trying to fit any peg possible into a square hole, and Ben's the only peg, but everything fits into a square hole and that's what you're not accepting, I feel.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 9:29:49 AM #45:	But let's play things your way: Ben is confirmed Town. Scum is exactly this list: Dumey Hb Kirby Ulti I'll grant you it's possible. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971580466] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>But let's play things your way:Ben is confirmed Town.Scum is exactly this list:DumeyHbKirbyUltiI'll grant you it's possible.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 9:32:25 AM #46:	I suppose there could also be only 3 Scum remaining too. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971580503] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>I suppose there could also be only 3 Scum remaining too.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 9:40:48 AM #47:	Here's a question - how often do you have a role in a game whose power becomes useless if the role they "interact" with gets lynched D1? --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971580636] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Here's a question - how often do you have a role in a game whose power becomes useless if the role they "interact" with gets lynched D1?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 9:51:47 AM #48:	I disagree that it's useless now. It's a weaker cop, basically. If player is star? Auto town. If player is not star? Then not auto town, but also not auto scum. Ambiguous result. Go next. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971580816] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>I disagree that it's useless now. It's a weaker cop, basically.If player is star? Auto town.If player is not star? Then not auto town, but also not auto scum. Ambiguous result. Go next. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 02/15/23 9:52:55 AM #49:	And for all the time you told lopen last game that Mafia is about convincing people of things, you and ctes have not done anything to convince anyone else of anything except "trust me fam" --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:971580832] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>And for all the time you told lopen last game that Mafia is about convincing people of things, you and ctes have not done anything to convince anyone else of anything except "trust me fam"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 02/15/23 10:01:02 AM #50:	Peace___Frog posted... And for all the time you told lopen last game that Mafia is about convincing people of things, you and ctes have not done anything to convince anyone else of anything except "trust me fam" I can't convince people. They'll just say "WIFOM" because I'm the one saying it. I mean, if I DIDN'T say anything about feeling better about Ctes, you wouldn't be saying anything about that. In fact, you would still be reading me mostly as Town, right? Other people still are. Anyway, I'm doing you the favor of considering that Ben is Town and came up with a team for it, what do you think? --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:971580947] in Paper Mari... [t:80348783]...</cite> <quote>Peace___Frog posted... </cite><quote>And for all the time you told lopen last game that Mafia is about convincing people of things, you and ctes have not done anything to convince anyone else of anything except "trust me fam"</quote>I can't convince people. They'll just say "WIFOM" because I'm the one saying it.I mean, if I DIDN'T say anything about feeling better about Ctes, you wouldn't be saying anything about that. In fact, you would still be reading me mostly as Town, right? Other people still are.Anyway, I'm doing you the favor of considering that Ben is Town and came up with a team for it, what do you think?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 7 - Mario is missing (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 7 - Mario is missing