Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 7 - Mario is missing

(+) Yeah! (+)

Let's rephrase - 3 vanillas, one confirmed star, one claimed not Star, and another claimed star

Peace___Frog posted...

I meant vanilla as not a star. Lol. Trying to post while talking in a work call confused things.

the post doesnt really make sense even if you remove star at the end tho

Means that if we're talking logical statements:
Star does not imply vanilla
Vanilla does not imply Star
However

Vanilla implies town
Star implies town

Not Star died not imply not town

Dumey, if you are town, you will comply and give me your flavor. You do not have to give me your role. I just want your flavor. That's it.

I have probable cause to believe that you are scum, and your refusal to comply is not helping your case.

Peace___Frog posted...

My issue is in the speculation that the stars are all vanilla just because me and isq (two confirmed town, to me) and Ulti (jury is out) have all claimed vanilla, and one of them is not a Star. We don't have information on other stars, and the status of a Star as power or not power is irrelevant to Ben's role.

Fixed for what i was going for. Sorry for the confusion.

Kirby321 posted...

Dumey, if you are town, you will comply and give me your flavor. You do not have to give me your role. I just want your flavor. That's it.

I have probable cause to believe that you are scum, and your refusal to comply is not helping your case.

ffs are you claiming some kind of flavor scanner too

It's okay Peaf, I couldn't actually imagine you would be on a Scumteam, fakeclaim Lakilester, and be under the impression that Lakilester is a Star Spirit.

Kirby321 posted...

Dumey, if you are town, you will comply and give me your flavor. You do not have to give me your role. I just want your flavor. That's it.

I have probable cause to believe that you are scum, and your refusal to comply is not helping your case.

What if he's a Star Spirit? lol

Kirby321 posted...

Dumey, if you are town, you will comply and give me your flavor. You do not have to give me your role. I just want your flavor. That's it.

I have probable cause to believe that you are scum, and your refusal to comply is not helping your case.

Man I wish it were that easy. If I can't get players with pressure on them to claim for me, I don't see how your zero pressure on me is going to get me to claim.

I already said I was down to same-time with you when it's time for claims to come out. I don't think today is that time.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

For someone saying they want me to claim Ctes so much, you sure don't want me to claim Ctes lol

I don't think me wanting to confirm the info you threw out in your defense is the same as advocating for a mass claim. These are not contradictory viewpoints.

Well I'm certainly not elaborating on my role and giving you an opportunity to craft a perfect fake claim out of it.

Today is absolutely the time to claim. People are waffling on Ben being town or not because of his role. We can't resolve it without a better idea of who is scum and who is not and whether or not Ben's role makes sense in the current town setup.

If today is MyLo, then we are riding on a slim chance to win this game on limited info.

Forgot to add

##Vote: Dumey

Kirby321 posted...

Dumey, if you are town, you will comply and give me your flavor. You do not have to give me your role. I just want your flavor. That's it.

I have probable cause to believe that you are scum, and your refusal to comply is not helping your case.

And after he does so, you're going to full claim.

Kirby321 posted...

Well I'm certainly not elaborating on my role and giving you an opportunity to craft a perfect fake claim out of it.

Nor did I ask you to.

Kirby321 posted...

If today is MyLo, then we are riding on a slim chance to win this game on limited info.

No one is arguing that today is mylo. You are scum trying to make town panic. Jc and i both suggested that, in the absence of lea's incredible play, we would probably be in mylo today.

Dumey Ill be honest I dont think you have a leg to stand on with respect to declining to claim given your insistence on the Han/ctes information.

Peace___Frog posted...

No one is arguing that today is mylo. You are scum trying to make town panic. Jc and i both suggested that, in the absence of lea's incredible play, we would probably be in mylo today.

Wasnt Kirby the one who initially figured mylo would be d5 and assumed were dealing with 3 scum left instead of 4?

Ill admit the suggestion of mylo doesnt make any sense in the fact of that

In the face of that*

Am I a bad typer or is my iPhone just autocorrecting dumb shit?

turns out its the latter. I typed typer and it autocorrected to Tyler lmao

Peace___Frog posted...

And after he does so, you're going to full claim.

Oh absolutely. I have no qualms with full claiming. I'd otherwise be a hypocrite for calling out Ben trying to back away from a claim!

The only reason I'm soft claiming is because I want a mass claim. Make no mistake, I think this is the best course of action for town right now, especially when everybody is so disoriented and very few people are actually on the same page.

Chaeix posted...

Wasnt Kirby the one who initially figured mylo would be d5 and assumed were dealing with 3 scum left instead of 4?

Ill admit the suggestion of mylo doesnt make any sense in the fact of that

Correct.

Chaeix posted...

Wasnt Kirby the one who initially figured mylo would be d5 and assumed were dealing with 3 scum left instead of 4?

Ill admit the suggestion of mylo doesnt make any sense in the fact of that

I was indeed the one who suggested we are probably not in MyLo right now, as that would mean the game would have been over if Sultan blew up Lea N1 and scum killed someone else instead.

But people were also getting on my case for acting like it's not MyLo, so \_()_/

Chaeix posted...

Dumey Ill be honest I dont think you have a leg to stand on with respect to declining to claim given your insistence on the Han/ctes information.

Really? How is this in any way similar?

Han was under pressure and volunteered info about another player's role and said they can confirm him. Us wanting to validate that info and potentially clear Han ourselves if we believe it is a LOT more specific of a play than trying to start a Mass Claim.

Players under pressure of being lynched can be asked to claim. Han has done nothing to convince me that he isn't still a viable lynch target today, so I still want that confirmation that we've been promised.

Kirby making me claim for no reason other than they suspect me because I put pressure on them yesterday that they don't like, and getting arguably little to no valuable information to Town, is an entirely different prospect.

I respect your want to mass claim, but I don't think you can meaningfully say that the Han/Ctes situation is the same as Kirby having a hard-on for me.

EDumey posted...

Kirby making me claim for no reason other than they suspect me because I put pressure on them yesterday that they don't like, and getting arguably little to no valuable information to Town, is an entirely different prospect.

I literally just claimed power.

I have a target on my back now.

I am exposing myself to give you a chance to confirm yourself town just by claiming your flavor and you are being incredibly defensive about it.

Kirby321 posted...

you are being incredibly defensive about it.

I wouldn't call "being consistent with my previously stated position on mass claims" being incredibly defensive about it. Weird characterization.

Dumey
Why do you refuse the opportunity for me to confirm you town?

##Vote: Dumey

I'm happy to see how this plays out. And now you do have pressure, Dumey!

Kirby321 posted...

Dumey
Why do you refuse the opportunity for me to confirm you town?

Because
A: That would go against my previously stated position on mass claims
and
B: That would rely on people believing your information.

I don't know if you people just use all these mafia terms way too liberally or something, but someone claiming a scan does not actually confirm them town. We learned this last game when scum Death faked a scan on scum Han.

Hey dumey, i think Kirby is scum scanner and is blowing hot smoke.
But the least you could do is say your flavor for him. He'll say that's not you, i won't believe him, and we'll go from there. Sound good?

EDumey posted...

Because
A: That would go against my previously stated position on mass claims
and
B: That would rely on people believing your information.

I don't know if you people just use all these mafia terms way too liberally or something, but someone claiming a scan does not actually confirm them town. We learned this last game when scum Death faked a scan on scum Han.

... So you're claiming scum?

If we were scumbuddies this entire time, Dumey, why didn't you say so! Gosh, thanks for calling out this very clearly faked scum theater between you and me. How did you know that I, your beloved scumbuddy, would try to fake a cleared scan on you? :)

For real though, I don't understand why a townie has a problem with confirming themselves town off of somebody else's scan.

Kirby321 posted...

... So you're claiming scum?

If we were scumbuddies this entire time, Dumey, why didn't you say so! Gosh, thanks for calling out this very clearly faked scum theater between you and me. How did you know that I, your beloved scumbuddy, would try to fake a cleared scan on you? :)

For real though, I don't understand why a townie has a problem with confirming themselves town off of somebody else's scan.

The issue isn't my image. It's your image. Your gameplan right now is to say, "Look I scanned this person that I've been suspecting all game is Town! And now looking at my scanning role, we can all agree to lynch Ben, right?"

I've stated that Ben being scum is one of my potential scum reads. So you confirming me makes me happy, makes me happy with you, and makes me join your crusade on Ben.

And to be clear, I think the above scenario could make sense for both a Town scanner Kirby, AND scum Kirby.

There is a clear motivation from you here that can be explained with more than "wow why would a townie not want an easy clear." I don't think I need an easy clear and don't support a mass claim.

Peace___Frog posted...

Hey dumey, i think Kirby is scum scanner and is blowing hot smoke.
But the least you could do is say your flavor for him. He'll say that's not you, i won't believe him, and we'll go from there. Sound good?

I will take that into consideration, thanks for the support. I am going to be stubborn for now as I haven't been convinced otherwise.

EDumey posted...

So you confirming me makes me happy,

meant to say makes you happy, but the pronoun game is hard.

Bro I don't care about my image
I just want to solve the game

These excuses are lame.

But tell me Dumey... how many scum do you think are left?

I have never seen a town move nowhere faster before

this is truly a game of mafia

I have a post guessing that earlier when I was proposing scum teams. I said 4 in 17 sounds too low. 5 in 17 sounds too high. 17 is a weird number.

Be charitable and remember I haven't played a ton of mafia recently, so I don't actually remember the MYLO math that's done to determine what's appropriate in a setup.

I would guess 5 and that's what my previous PoE analysis was based on.

Chaeix posted...

I have never seen a town move nowhere faster before

Honestly more evidence to the "scum is full of inactives" theory and players like Ctes, HB, and Red feel no pressure to change anything.

Stop putting me in that pile. For being European I am basically always around.

Also Kirby, do you deny that if you were able to "confirm" me as town, your next step would be to try and go after Ben again? As either alignment? Was I wrong in that assessment?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Stop putting me in that pile. For being European I am basically always around.

i calls it hows i sees it.

EDumey posted...

Honestly more evidence to the "scum is full of inactives" theory and players like Ctes, HB, and Red feel no pressure to change anything.

EDumey posted...

Honestly more evidence to the "scum is full of inactives" theory and players like Ctes, HB, and Red feel no pressure to change anything.

I mean yes but I was thinking mostly in terms of providing information. Ctes and Han refuse, you are seemingly refusing, were going nowhere.

Also I think Kirbys point about him exposing himself as power to confirm or clear you does in fact make it a more analogous situation to Han/ctes than you are saying.

I just dont understand why you wont even give up your flavour? Like whats the cost of disclosing your flavour?

But you're saying the same thing after that half day where I wasn't around due to personal things and after a day where I've been around all day and the other two might as well not have posted at all. It reads as flinging things out without consideration.

Chaeix posted...

I just dont understand why you wont even give up your flavour? Like whats the cost of disclosing your flavour?

The cost is that Kirby now full claims, and then you try to snowball that into a mass claim. Kirby literally started their soft claim saying they were trying to get a mass claim started! If my claim is the catalyst to that, and I don't want a mass claim, why would I acquiesce?

EDumey posted...

The cost is that Kirby now full claims, and then you try to snowball that into a mass claim. Kirby literally started their soft claim saying they were trying to get a mass claim started! If my claim is the catalyst to that, and I don't want a mass claim, why would I acquiesce?

As much as I would love a mass and am actively pushing for one regardless, you confirming your flavour for Kirby can be done independently and is absolutely not a slippery slope into a mass.

Well, I shouldnt say absolutely not but if theres no good reason for it to turn into a mass, it wont.

if it makes there be a good reason to mass, then theres a good reason to mass?

ctesjbuvf posted...

But you're saying the same thing after that half day where I wasn't around due to personal things and after a day where I've been around all day and the other two might as well not have posted at all. It reads as flinging things out without consideration.

Ctes. I understand availability issues. I wish I could show you guys my productivity chart at work right now. I've been a very bad boy today.

Can you honestly tell me if you were to rate your contributions to this game, do you think you are in the bottom three? Or are there more people than HB and Red that you think you have contributed more than? I'm not saying this as an insult or knock against you. I am merely being descriptive in the amount provided.

You know what, I can actually answer for you in the positive here. I think you're probably in the same realm as Ben, but he has his claim working for him that's generated a lot of content recently that made me think of him as more active than he has been.

Under the Radar players:
Ctes
Ben

Inactive players:
HB
Red

All of the players above I think contribute to the aforementioned problems.

Also Dumey, I really dont get why you were okay with same time claiming with Kirby earlier but not any more.

What changed?

EDumey posted...

Also Kirby, do you deny that if you were able to "confirm" me as town, your next step would be to try and go after Ben again? As either alignment? Was I wrong in that assessment?

Why does that matter? Everything depends on whether you lie about your flavor or not.

Chaeix posted...

Also Dumey, I really dont get why you were okay with same time claiming with Kirby earlier but not any more.

What changed?

EDumey posted...

I already said I was down to same-time with you when it's time for claims to come out. I don't think today is that time.

Nothing has changed.

KING OF CONSISTENCY

##unvote
##vote: dumey

no

Kirby321 posted...

Why does that matter? Everything depends on whether you lie about your flavor or not.

I dunno. You say my excuses are lame, but it seems like I had an accurate read of your game plan. So you may not agree with me, but I'm not making a baseless analysis of the situation.

I swear, if we end up specialing somebody for the third day in a row, I'm not gonna be happy.

What did you not like about the answer that was posted above this before you even asked the question?