Board 8 > Mercenaries 5 Test Run, Week 1 Peacetime: A Little War In Brand-New Earth

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Chaeix
02/14/23 3:27:19 PM
#101:


Lopen posted...
The big reason for the GP cost is to narrow down the ability targets and give a drawback to doing so.

But you don't necessarily need to implement that via GP. There is that whole fatigue mechanic that exists which would probably be sufficient.

But yeah more slots to me is where the money is for balancing pay downs. I'm not sure why this wasn't discussed more in the development. If there was one thing I felt M4 really did wrong it was pay downs.
raiden to mid

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KanzarisKelshen
02/14/23 3:44:02 PM
#102:


Lopen posted...
The big reason for the GP cost is to narrow down the ability targets and give a drawback to doing so.

But you don't necessarily need to implement that via GP. There is that whole fatigue mechanic that exists which would probably be sufficient.

But yeah more slots to me is where the money is for balancing pay downs. I'm not sure why this wasn't discussed more in the development. If there was one thing I felt M4 really did wrong it was pay downs.

The answer is largely that we wanted to see if we could implement a symmetrical answer to paydowns via Bounty Hunters, mostly, instead of just punishing paydowns even harder. Teams that lean top heavy have the natural disadvantage of dealing with abilities less well to begin with and costing more gold at every step of the game. Rather than nerf them further, we felt letting people maintain battle power parity by accepting economic parity (that is, reduce that very significant gold advantage to gain tools to reduce the enemy's power advantage) was worth trying first. It's already an issue that going top-heavy is actually very hard to make viable due to getting less money, which goes counter to Mercenaries being, hypothetically, a game where you can play with your favorite gaming characters and be valid. We wanted to see if a soft touch of 'abilities are usable much more often and you can pay to throw even more of them out if you want' could balance paydowns first before going straight to harder nerfs.

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KanzarisKelshen
02/14/23 3:48:01 PM
#103:


In other words: yes, further nerfs to paydowns are on the table. It's important to get data on how the sweeping systemic changes we've already made affect them first before we go straight to just making the mechanic intrinsically weaker so we don't pollute the data we're going to get from the TR too much.

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Chaeix
02/14/23 3:54:13 PM
#104:


min on just kidding

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Dantezoid
02/14/23 3:54:17 PM
#105:


FFDragon posted...
I'd go as far as to say that without paydowns the 1/2 matches would be the most fun ones.

easily

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Lopen
02/14/23 4:01:10 PM
#106:


Spitballing some random ideas I'd suggest if what you have doesn't fit.

Tier shift to
5-6
3-4
1-2

Paydowns = +2 roster slots per upkeep above.
So 3s = 3 roster slots in low. 4s = 5 roster slots in low. 5+ don't get to fight in low.
5s = 3 roster slots in mid. 6s = 5 roster slots in mid. 7+ don't get to fight in mid.
7s = 3 roster slots in high.

Add loaded merc traits to modify paydown costs (like I don't know "versatile - -1 paydown cost" or "stoic - +1 paydown cost"), or just put it as part of the upkeep/gold block if that's easier.

So for example you could have Sagat who is a 3 but has -1 paydown cost, so he only costs 2 slots in a low match. Then on the other hand you could have Leon Kennedy who is a 3-- he is clearly not a pure 4 in terms of value but because guns are so dangerous in low has +1 paydown cost. You could maybe make an Ashley Graham merc that removes Leon's stoic trait if rostered I don't know just ideas! The versatile key word could possibly have some cost to actually use it, possibly.

Alternate idea, remove paydowns, have some mechanic to send out your higher upkeep merc to find an unbought low/mid tier merc to roster to be able to fill up rosters-- if you win you start getting loyalty points with the merc and get to buy the merc for cheaper later if you want. If two mercs head out to hire the same merc you have a duel topic between them to see who gets the merc. Ha ha. I don't know.

I think there are a lot of things you can do. Sorry, not trying to throw shade about what has and hasn't been considered just like workshopping ideas.

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Dantezoid
02/14/23 4:10:40 PM
#107:


I do like the idea of ~BOSS FIGHTS~ Where it's a squad of 5 2s vs a random 4

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trdl23
02/14/23 4:14:19 PM
#108:


I hope I didn't miss someone else saying it because I'm running on zero sleep, but I think it's notable that we have given many mercs anti-paydown abilities, either to hose paydowns specifically or getting to do their shit for free if the enemy paid down.

I don't have much else to contribute with sleep-dep brain so yeah

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UF8
02/14/23 4:26:22 PM
#109:


sneaking in here just to say i appreciate the random apparent orange juice reference in the topic title
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AriaOfBolo
02/14/23 4:31:09 PM
#110:


that's how they getcha (if you're a fellow weeb)

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FFDragon
02/14/23 4:43:29 PM
#111:


I don't think forcing you to buy an anti-paydown Merc is where it's at, personally. The system itself has always been broken from the rip. Just fix the system. Not throw even more moving parts into it.

My view anyway.

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AriaOfBolo
02/14/23 4:46:55 PM
#112:


FFDragon posted...
The system itself has always been broken from the rip. Just fix the system. Not throw even more moving parts into it.

sir this is mercs

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Tirofog
02/14/23 4:49:28 PM
#113:


Dantezoid posted...
I do like the idea of ~BOSS FIGHTS~ Where it's a squad of 5 2s vs a random 4

Random.org for this on M4 mercs (rerolling PSs) gets us:

Beast Incarnate Brock Lesnar, Tusk, Kain Highwind, Pikachu, Billy and Jimmy Lee

vs.

Agent 47

... I'd like to see that, actually.

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Chaeix
02/14/23 4:49:52 PM
#114:


AriaOfBolo posted...
sir this is mercs
wait its not wendys?

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Lopen
02/14/23 4:59:45 PM
#115:


Tirofog posted...
Beast Incarnate Brock Lesnar, Tusk, Kain Highwind, Pikachu, Billy and Jimmy Lee

vs.

Agent 47

... I'd like to see that, actually.

That match would be legit awesome actually. Definitely not a 47 SOLOS situation (but arguably he could)

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Mewtwo59
02/14/23 5:02:54 PM
#116:


Kain is there, so I believe 47 finds a way to pull it off.

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Dante
02/14/23 5:11:21 PM
#117:


yeah if hitman were on a normal hitman level (inc all random innocents), I think he could do work

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FFDragon
02/14/23 5:56:02 PM
#118:




Tirofog posted...
Beast Incarnate Brock Lesnar, Tusk, Kain Highwind, Pikachu, Billy and Jimmy Lee

vs.

Agent 47

This is amazing. No notes.

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MajinZidane
02/14/23 7:57:31 PM
#119:


Min on Mega Man

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MajinZidane
02/14/23 8:02:50 PM
#120:


I Want To Be The One
Chippin' In

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greengravy294
02/14/23 8:06:34 PM
#121:


I draw a card from my deck!

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Mewtwo59
02/14/23 8:09:18 PM
#122:


Liquid: Beep beep, I'm a jeep

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AriaOfBolo
02/14/23 8:09:43 PM
#123:


Mario Party Level Lead Mario Party Level doesn't have the same ring to it

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AriaOfBolo
02/14/23 8:10:25 PM
#124:


(that's Bowser's level select ability btw, it will probably be the volcano almost always)

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greengravy294
02/14/23 8:11:45 PM
#125:


attach darknite to freeman

DRAW! a card from my deck!

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KanzarisKelshen
02/14/23 8:12:48 PM
#126:


Week 0's Peacetime has concluded. Any further mercenary purchases will only allow mercenaries to join battle in week 2.

Leaders have been rearranged in declaration order. Bids in the next post.

JC ~ Fog Legacy (0-0, 43GP, 12 RI, 3 AP)
Battle: Crono, Aigis
Support:
KO's/Injuries:
Recharge:
Other:

Aria ~ The Town Inside Mercs (0-0, 24GP, 10 RI, 3 AP)
Battle: Donkey Kong, Bowser, Mewtwo
Support:
KO's/Injuries:
Recharge:
Other:

Eddv ~ Here Comes the Hotstepper (0-0, 23GP, 9 RI, 3 AP)
Battle: King K. Rool, B.J. Blazkowicz, Samus Aran
Support:
KO's/Injuries:
Recharge:
Other:

Boko ~ Boko Bombers (0-0, 18GP, 8 RI, 3 AP)
Battle: Rika Furude, Kazuma Kiryu, Leon Kennedy, Mega Man
Support:
KO's/Injuries:
Recharge:
Other: Mega Man has Chippin' In (1 use)

Mewtwo ~ Orange Bears (0-0, 23GP, 8 RI, 3 AP)
Battle: Vivi Ornitier, Cloud Strife, Liquid Snake
Support:
KO's/Injuries:
Recharge:
Other:

Greengravy ~ Hip To Be Square (0-0, 26GP, 7 RI, 3 AP)
Battle: Gordon Freeman, Raiden
Support: Darknite (Linked to Gordon)
KO's/Injuries:
Recharge:
Other:

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Dante
02/14/23 8:12:54 PM
#127:


gordon freeman would be the nerd with a card deck

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KanzarisKelshen
02/14/23 8:13:51 PM
#128:


Bid List:

JC: 17 GP (first place)
Aria: 2 GP (second place)
Eddv: 1 GP (third place)
Boko, Gravy, Mewtwo: 0 GP (joint fourth place. Randomizer breaks tie in Boko>Mewtwo>Gravy order)

That is all. Now to proceed with processing orders.

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KanzarisKelshen
02/14/23 8:18:30 PM
#129:


Dark Magician Girl: A random post-rosters enemy mercenary will start at 50% of their maximum health and cannot be healed in any way. Add an additional target for every Dark Magician and Dark Magician #2 in Darknites hand when this card is activated. The same target cannot be selected twice. [Negative Effect]

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greengravy294
02/14/23 8:22:15 PM
#130:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdaBIUKbwr0

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Johnbobb
02/14/23 8:37:43 PM
#131:


not a single one of you fuckers bought Kirby?

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Chaeix
02/14/23 8:38:24 PM
#132:


Johnbobb posted...
not a single one of you fuckers bought Kirby?
4/week problems

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<DeathChicken> you are my hero for being the first person to cite National Geographic in Mercs
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KanzarisKelshen
02/14/23 8:40:48 PM
#133:


Johnbobb posted...
not a single one of you fuckers bought Kirby?

People will tell you 4/weeks are weak

To this I look at them and say 'these builds of kirbo, gordon, lu bu and sonic are weak???'

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Chaeix
02/14/23 8:41:26 PM
#134:


aigis to mid

it must be

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KanzarisKelshen
02/14/23 8:45:24 PM
#135:


Chaeix posted...
aigis to mid

it must be

sir this is a wendys

and also low tier

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Chaeix
02/14/23 8:45:37 PM
#136:


that's what i meant

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Lopen
02/14/23 9:12:02 PM
#137:


Johnbobb posted...
not a single one of you fuckers bought Kirby?

I should have played

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AriaOfBolo
02/14/23 9:17:46 PM
#138:


I love but he doesn't fit my strategy and I don't think he does well in a format this short :\

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KanzarisKelshen
02/14/23 9:18:08 PM
#139:


literally make a brand new kirby build that is all shiny and nice and proven to be good in showmatches and nobody buys into it

smh my head

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GANON1025
02/14/23 9:20:04 PM
#140:


Im offended that Gordon is thought of to be at the same power level as Frontiers Sonic

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FFDragon
02/14/23 9:20:54 PM
#141:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
literally make a brand new kirby build that is all shiny and nice and proven to be good in showmatches and nobody buys into it

smh my head

FFDragon posted...
Low-Mid tier is near useless imo

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GANON1025
02/14/23 9:23:53 PM
#142:


I mean, if you buy Sonic and upgrade his Super Sonic ability, then thats what, a merc thats essentially MGR Raiden+ with insane uptime thanks to max Frontier rings

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MajinZidane
02/14/23 9:29:21 PM
#143:


he fast

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KanzarisKelshen
02/14/23 9:31:22 PM
#144:


GANON1025 posted...
Im offended that Gordon is thought of to be at the same power level as Frontiers Sonic

I mean same but I know I am the high water mark of SANIC respect

I calibrated assuming he wouldn't be taken that seriously just for the sake of not griefing players if they invested into him

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Chaeix
02/14/23 10:09:37 PM
#145:


bounty hunt Mario

my gp :(

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Chaeix
02/14/23 10:10:41 PM
#146:


or I suppose hire Mario as a bounty hunter

obviously I am not hunting Mario here

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Eddv
02/14/23 10:19:15 PM
#147:


[b]Bounty Hunter Meta Knight[/b]

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Eddv
02/14/23 10:19:32 PM
#148:


Bounty Hunter Meta Knight

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AriaOfBolo
02/14/23 10:22:24 PM
#149:


Chaeix posted...
obviously I am not hunting Mario here

the most-a dangerous game

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trdl23
02/14/23 10:22:25 PM
#150:


GANON1025 posted...
I mean, if you buy Sonic and upgrade his Super Sonic ability, then thats what, a merc thats essentially MGR Raiden+ with insane uptime thanks to max Frontier rings
@GANON1025 Get into our discord server nao

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