Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 5 - I swear that I, Kooper, will follow you anywhere!

(+) Yeah! (+)

htaeD posted...

You could have sametimed that part too yaknow?

either he actually has the information and an STP wouldn't matter or i give him a one out of however many people shot there are at getting it right

STP is more fun but more annoying while i'm trying to make bacon and eggs

Chaeix posted...

i'm trying to make bacon and eggs

Is this a breadcrumb?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Is this a breadcrumb?

nope. it's my breakfast

the toast has breadcrumbs though because it's bread

Ben wasn't ready for what to say when you claimed, it seems.

@PunishedBen

If he doesnt say, we lynch him

easy

f5

So how's everyone doing?

Got a presentation in an hour Im not working on waiting for

Well you know

Dumey, Ulti, Peaf, Hb really all ducked just as things got good.

I am doing fine, but if Ben is wasting my time

well the consequence is already written.

Have to drive a kid to there visit. Then have a home visit with another family later

I'm here, but working. Not sure I have anything to add unless Ben tries to dip out of claiming now.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Dumey, Ulti, Peaf, Hb really all ducked just as things got good.

Work calls call, as they say.

It'll be an exciting afternoon here, huh

Probably not, given Ben RAN

EDumey posted...

I'm not sure why I have to summarize Ulti's thoughts on a player for you, when they're literally right there for you to read if you were willing to engage with them. Ulti at latest said that Sultan had bad posts in Topic 1 and then is acting too scared and concerned with how his actions are perceived. Who else has called out Sultan for being too concerned with his image, instead of players just going , "oh Sultan, silly guy not remembering what he's already replied to!"

My point was that if Ulti's posts were truly of any substance, another player would be able to clearly explain them. Because all I've seen from him is "Sultan scum" and that's it. Everything else about Sultan in Ulti's posts have been quotes from other players, and nothing of Ulti's own thoughts on why he thinks Sultan is scum besides "just trust me bro".

Like, I don't recall at all when Ulti said that Sultan was concerned about his own image, and that's what made him look scummy. Could you point me to that post?

EDumey posted...

Like, I'm struggling to understand from a town perspective, why you would be UPSET that a player is coming to the same conclusions as you independently. If he ends up changing his mind once he catches up, great, but it would ostensibly show that he was looking at things from a town perspective as he analyzed, wouldn't it? Especially considering:

I'd be happy if a player came to the same conclusion as me if that conclusion wasn't already proven patently false.

Not to mention I'm no longer concluding the same thing as Ulti because I talked about with Han and Peaf, and we had discussion that ultimately showed my conclusion as highly unlikely. If Ulti still wants to assert that Plum is scum, then I would like him to at least acknowledge and argue against the things that have brought Plum in favor of being town.

But he's not doing that. Ulti is spouting out his own reads without considering the arguments that were already made, and that does nothing productive, as we'd simply retread the same arguments.

Kirby: "I think Plum could still be scum."
Others: "Then why would Plum do x, y, z as scum?"
*cue conversation about Plum's actions at end of day*

~ Hours later ~

Ulti: "PLUM IS SCUM EVERYONE GOSH FREAKING LYNCH THIS DUDE IF I DIE"
Others: "Then why would Plum do x, y, z as scum?"
*cue the exact same conversation that just happened hours ago*

If Ulti had said Plum is scum after acknowledging the arguments already presented on why Plum is town, I'd be fine with it. Otherwise, Ulti's read on Plum is distracting and doesn't present anything new.

EDumey posted...

Then why discredit? I feel it is ironic here that I want to also caveat that my intent is not to say Ulti is town here. I am not defending his takes, I'm finding issue with you seeming to actively discredit his catch-up. I think Lopen said it last game. Town doesn't seek to discredit players, they seek to correct player's misinformation. Scum seeks to discredit players when they can't argue with the information.

I'm not trying to discredit per se. Ulti could be scum trying to seem productive. That's possible, so I can see why you're thinking I'm trying to discredit Ulti.

Ulti could also be town wasting up topic space with no convincing arguments. If that's the case, I'm trying to encourage Ulti to adopt a more productive stance that can help us, as a town, move forward with new information.

Let me be clear: I don't want Ulti to be silent. I just want him to provide more useful posts and reads. Besides, since when was calling people's posts a lot of words but no substance a crime? People literally used that same argument against me on Day 1, and I don't see you attacking those people for it :P

I want to say, dumey attacked Kirby for basically the same thing he attacked me for on day 1 - "stifling discussion".

For the record, i think it's good for Ulti to have his opinions out there, so that we can go back to them later. But i think Kirby also has merit with respect to Ulti, because Ulti was giving out very strong and bold statements on what appeared to be a whim, but in a way that is very easy for him to walk back from. His initial formatting of it all made it more confusing and very noisy, in a way that was reminiscent of how Chang and hb got frustrated with lopen last game.

All that is to say - kirby's frustration does not indicate alignment for me, but it is interesting that you've fallen back on that logic twice now, dumey.

fwiw, Scum has been known in the past to do "rereads" and post live as they do them.

I'm inclined to agree with Kirby - I'd rather have the notes taken, and then summarized. Not only does it condense the posts in the topic, it makes summations clear and organized.

Chaeix posted...

good time for me to roll out of bed i suppose. the only info that ben could possibly have on me is a track given that i'm town.

i claim town power

who did i visit last night ben?

That's not the info I am looking for. And if you committing to that then I am content to hold off for today

HanOfTheNekos posted...

fwiw, Scum has been known in the past to do "rereads" and post live as they do them.

I'm inclined to agree with Kirby - I'd rather have the notes taken, and then summarized. Not only does it condense the posts in the topic, it makes summations clear and organized.

Rereads and ISOs are two sides of the same coin really. Town and scum can do them.
Though I am less fond of the method Ulti is using.

Oh HELL no

PunishedBen posted...

That's not the info I am looking for. And if you committing to that then I am content to hold off for today

What the hell Ben
You outed a power role and you think you can just leave it at that?

I mean we can get into the Mafia theory of big catch up posts vs stream of consciousness reactions, and obviously it comes down to the player. But there's definitely nothing wrong with giving feedback about it, especially when the formatting and the reactions given are confusing to parse.

Ben.

PunishedBen posted...

That's not the info I am looking for. And if you committing to that then I am content to hold off for today

LOL

Ben, I swear, if you're actually town, this might be the biggest throw of the century.

You are not escaping without a claim, mister.

Ben, you know you have dug yourself a hole.

if ben isn't claiming a track the only other possible thing would be flavor cop in which case why ask me to claim? he would know not a koopa bro in that case and the flavor cop GF is already dead

doesn't add up

Kirby321 posted...

Like, I don't recall at all when Ulti said that Sultan was concerned about his own image, and that's what made him look scummy. Could you point me to that post?

4.451 The one that everyone got mad at Ulti for his formatting. Very bottom of his post.

Kirby321 posted...

if that conclusion wasn't already proven patently false.

Kirby321 posted...

my conclusion as highly unlikely.

These two statements are not the same. Also does not change the argument about Ulti coming to the same conclusion as you, even if wrong, could be seen as analyzing the game from a similar point of view as you.

Now that Ulti claims to be caught up, we can ask him if his opinion has changed, and generate further conversation if he says he doesn't agree.

Kirby321 posted...

Ulti could also be town wasting up topic space with no convincing arguments. If that's the case, I'm trying to encourage Ulti to adopt a more productive stance that can help us, as a town, move forward with new information.

Let me be clear: I don't want Ulti to be silent. I just want him to provide more useful posts and reads. Besides, since when was calling people's posts a lot of words but no substance a crime? People literally used that same argument against me on Day 1, and I don't see you attacking those people for it :P

I would agree with you if we were having productive conversation otherwise and Ulti was distracting people with clogging up the topic. That's not my recollection of events.

On the last point as well, you didn't see me attack you for lots of words no substance during that time either though, right? The core difference is I think there IS substance to Ulti's posts, and that's where the crime is.

Lol

I think ben was scum when i was bd in ygo Mafia? He had me fooled there too, until his abysmal fake claim.

Chaeix posted...

if ben isn't claiming a track the only other possible thing would be flavor cop in which case why ask me to claim? he would know not a koopa bro in that case and the flavor cop GF is already dead

doesn't add up

to be fair, the Koopa Bros. all died. I think it was KOOP TROOP or something that was the faction

He wouldnt be asking for a claim in that case either

Heck I will just say I dont know why Ben went after you
If I werent so mad I'd jokingly say I was insulted that he didnt target me with whatever he is trying to do.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

to be fair, the Koopa Bros. all died. I think it was KOOP TROOP or something that was the faction

i mean either way he would be able to pretty clearly spot my flavour was 'not scum' but yes you're correct the faction is koop troop and not koopa bros

Peace___Frog posted...

I want to say, dumey attacked Kirby for basically the same thing he attacked me for on day 1 - "stifling discussion".

The "stifling discussion" part of that Day 1 Topic 1 post was meant to be cheeky, as I obviously knew you were intending to make a joke post. The actual problem I had with you was ignoring the part of Ben's post that actually had real content in it.

Which I think is very consistent with my issue with Kirby currently. It's not that he's stifling discussion, it's that I think it would be more "productive" to actually engage with the things Ulti is saying, rather than trying to dictate how Ulti play the game.

Yo, Please, I am at work and when people arent calling in, my boss is standing at my desk having me do something for him. Its not like i am coming up with crap on the spot. I have breadcrumbed aspects of my role throughout the day, but its better if I dont have to claim today. I REALLY should have just shut up and said nothing at all but I'm terrible at keeping secrets and look great someone is calling

Also I DIDNT TELL JC TO CLAIM.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

fwiw, Scum has been known in the past to do "rereads" and post live as they do them.

I'm inclined to agree with Kirby - I'd rather have the notes taken, and then summarized. Not only does it condense the posts in the topic, it makes summations clear and organized.

This would be a good argument to let scum do it, as it may be easier to catch them in the process!

If you have breadcrumbed, then how do you expect to remain a mystery in front of scums scrutinizing eyes?

Do your work sure, but when you have time you have to claim

PunishedBen posted...

Also I DIDNT TELL JC TO CLAIM.

True.
But you could have known it was a risk.

PunishedBen posted...

Yo, Please, I am at work and when people arent calling in, my boss is standing at my desk having me do something for him. Its not like i am coming up with crap on the spot. I have breadcrumbed aspects of my role throughout the day, but its better if I dont have to claim today. I REALLY should have just shut up and said nothing at all but I'm terrible at keeping secrets and look great someone is calling

Thank you for letting us know that you will claim today when you are available.

I suppose it is up to JC if he wants to full-claim now or wait until after you.

as suspicious as ben is acting i can't help but shake the feeling that this is a stupid town thing because my god would it ever be stupid as a scum thing

PunishedBen posted...

Also I DIDNT TELL JC TO CLAIM.

You said you wouldnt unless he did.

PunishedBen posted...

Well answering that would require him to claim wouldn't it

Okay wait nevermind, my memory was too soft on him, Ben practically did ask.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Thank you for letting us know that you will claim today when you are available.

I suppose it is up to JC if he wants to full-claim now or wait until after you.

I'll leave that up to others' appetites since I would prefer not to claim more than I already have if it can be avoided. If people trust me, it only benefits scum for me to divulge further details of my role. I am happy to share my flavour though since that doesn't really give any information.

I'm Watt.

Damn.

I thought you were Tayce T.

Please do not claim more, why

EDumey posted...

4.451 The one that everyone got mad at Ulti for his formatting. Very bottom of his post.

Ultimaterializer posted...

Was slightly exapecting to come back to votes beacuse man did that make me look bad like not reading isquens post the first time around and took me time to process it

Bolding for emphasis. This is from Sultan.

Town does not care if they look bad. Scum does. Kill it with fire.

Fair enough.

EDumey posted...

These two statements are not the same. Also does not change the argument about Ulti coming to the same conclusion as you, even if wrong, could be seen as analyzing the game from a similar point of view as you.

Now that Ulti claims to be caught up, we can ask him if his opinion has changed, and generate further conversation if he says he doesn't agree.

... Or he could just write down some notes, catch up, read the arguments on Plum, and then address them all in one go instead of this lazy mish-mash of "Plum is scum. There. I solved the game. You're welcome."

I don't get your argument though. Just because someone comes to the same conclusion as me, I should think they're town? Even though they could just as likely be scum following a very simple path of logic to appear as town? That's a silly argument. This whole discussion on Ulti is a silly argument!

EDumey posted...

I would agree with you if we were having productive conversation otherwise and Ulti was distracting people with clogging up the topic. That's not my recollection of events.

On the last point as well, you didn't see me attack you for lots of words no substance during that time either though, right? The core difference is I think there IS substance to Ulti's posts, and that's where the crime is.

I can't this seriously when your only interaction with Ulti on Day 2 has just been this post:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/5/0/AAS0cuAAELkO.jpg

Imagine calling me out for dismissing Ulti as white noise when you were also threatening to "safely disregard" him lol

You were very ready to toss out Ulti's posts unless he confirmed he caught up the game. So why is it a problem when I'm doing the same?
(Though I fully admit to taking that post out of context as I just Ctrl + F'd for "EDumey" to see any interactions Ulti has had with you, which showed me surprisingly little!)

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Damn.

I thought you were Tayce T.

i tried to send a picture of my bacon and eggs but it was too big for a gfaqs post

Only claim more if you got like a guilty scan or something but at this point Ben is basically in the noose.

Plus you already visited Ben