Board 8 > Hogwarts Legacy: Wired 1/10

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's always interesting to me to watch transgender people being told to take the high road while they're often being spoke to and about in the most dehumanizing way possible by incredibly important figures in society.

Like the most watched cable news host in the US will openly mock and ridicule transgender people night in and night out but gosh darn if some random account on Twitch threatens someone well damn there goes the whole trans' rights movement.

MacArrowny posted...

Trans people sending death threats to streamers who play HL and donate all the revenue to pro trans charities is 100% a failure on their part.

SirChris posted...

There are many - not you - who I have seen with a lot of sway on the internet saying that if someone buys the game they are transphobic and don't ever talk to them again. I think perhaps as a trans person you don't realize - or don't care to comment on - that you appear to be rather moderate on this issue compared to many within the trans space.

These are great examples of the double standard Grimlyn and Rock brought up, and something I touched on in the last thread. There's a skewed perspective put forth in a lot of media and online spaces that pins these actions on the trans community as a whole, probably related to the stereotype that trans people are mentally unstable. It's not fair to reframe the conversation in this way - to say, "Your human rights concerns are valid and all, but look at these unreasonable things your side is doing," as though that's a valid counterpoint.

I think a sentiment that's lost in translation between trans and cis people is how it feels to hear your community and human rights movement talked about in terms of optics and presentation, to hear people saying the boycott should have been staged and explained better or that those energies should have gone towards some higher, more productive mechanism instead. Hearing outsiders discuss things in this dispassionate way kind of hurts, especially when you know they're not invested in it at all. It's not really accurate to view this whole thing as an organized, planned boycott with premeditation and a game plan and clear goals: it's a natural outcome from a lot of people sharing a feeling about Rowling and her work and her activism, and no individual is going to be responsible for the entirety of how that plays out. When you argue about whether it's a waste of time or whether it's ineffective or whether it's a failure, you're applying those criticisms to people's feelings, not a political event, and that's kind of lame.

TheRock1525 posted...

It's always interesting to me to watch transgender people being told to take the high road while they're often being spoke to and about in the most dehumanizing way possible by incredibly important figures in society.

Like the most watched cable news host in the US will openly mock and ridicule transgender people night in and night out but gosh darn if some random account on Twitch threatens someone well damn there goes the whole trans' rights movement.

Most of the people posting in this topic relentlessly shit on right-wing talking points and behavior. This isn't the gotcha you think it is. You can in fact point out left-wing behavior you think is unproductive (not even unjustified, unproductive) without it being an automatic endorsement for the opposite side.

Grimlyn posted...

lots of stuff

I'm pretty sure I'm one of the people in this topic this was originally aimed at, so I'll address it.

I don't know how else to phrase my response except that no, this is not my first time interacting with trans discourse, and I don't think it is for most of the other people here either. Personally speaking, I've participated in discussion of issues, read up on opinions and experiences by trans people, and followed changes in trans rights laws, for years now. As far as support goes, I've donated to trans charity, voted down-ticket progressive, and have decided not to purchase Hogwarts Legacy despite actually wanting to play it. Also weird to use the phrasing 'your game' when basically no one here seems to be playing it, and the topic series originally started off with most people saying the review scores looked inflated.

Having to post all that is obnoxious and comes across as self-justifying, but after that initial post there wasn't really another option. I'm not sure if anyone in this topic actually fits the person you've laid out in your posts. You are attacking a strawman that doesn't exist.

As for you thinking that the Hogwarts Legacy discourse is leading to positive change - if you've seen that, great. I've looked in a lot of places and mostly haven't. I think that, overall, the discourse surrounding Hogwarts Legacy has been a net negative. If I'm wrong, well I'm not going to complain. But I can only describe what I've seen.

Natalie posted...

Hearing outsiders discuss things in this dispassionate way kind of hurts, especially when you know they're not invested in it at all.

The notion that looking at things in a pragmatic way means you don't care is one of the most annoying left-wing fallacies. I do the same for the issues that affect me directly. Making actual progress is the #1 thing that matters.

As for the degree of how much I care - am I going to be as intensely emotional as someone who the subject directly impacts? No. That's human nature, and expecting anything more from a person is unreasonable. There are a *lot* of issues plaguing the world right now, and if I went to pieces over each and every one of them I would be a withered husk of a man. Already went through a period like that a few years ago and it wasn't healthy!

when you're part of a minority group the double standards is simply always there

if a white guy mugs someone on the street it's "i got mugged by an asshole drug addict/maniac"

if a black guy mugs someone in the street it "i got mugged by a black guy"

Natalie posted...

These are great examples of the double standard Grimlyn and Rock brought up, and something I touched on in the last thread. There's a skewed perspective put forth in a lot of media and online spaces that pins these actions on the trans community as a whole, probably related to the stereotype that trans people are mentally unstable. It's not fair to reframe the conversation in this way - to say, "Your human rights concerns are valid and all, but look at these unreasonable things your side is doing," as though that's a valid counterpoint.

I think a sentiment that's lost in translation between trans and cis people is how it feels to hear your community and human rights movement talked about in terms of optics and presentation, to hear people saying the boycott should have been staged and explained better or that those energies should have gone towards some higher, more productive mechanism instead. Hearing outsiders discuss things in this dispassionate way kind of hurts, especially when you know they're not invested in it at all. It's not really accurate to view this whole thing as an organized, planned boycott with premeditation and a game plan and clear goals: it's a natural outcome from a lot of people sharing a feeling about Rowling and her work and her activism, and no individual is going to be responsible for the entirety of how that plays out. When you argue about whether it's a waste of time or whether it's ineffective or whether it's a failure, you're applying those criticisms to people's feelings, not a political event, and that's kind of lame.

Completely agreed

SirChris posted...

There are many - not you - who I have seen with a lot of sway on the internet saying that if someone buys the game they are transphobic and don't ever talk to them again. I think perhaps as a trans person you don't realize - or don't care to comment on - that you appear to be rather moderate on this issue compared to many within the trans space.

In my circles I think the median stance (which is also mine) is "maybe they're not transphobes themselves but they sure are cool with their money going to one." It might not be a dealbreaker, but it's a red flag. We watch for and remember that kinda stuff when figuring out who's safe and who's an enemy and who's various flavors of in the middle. There are for sure people more intense than me, there are for sure people who just wanna move on, but in my experience "proceed with caution if at all" is often the attitude. Heck you've got keffals streaming it as a fundraiser, if you want a big (albeit somewhat disliked) trans voice going the centrist route.

Also it's been said a few times a few ways but it gets tiring seeing people handwring over death threats but only the ones my side sends. Like sure death threats bad either way but man if you don't like death threats and people being mean online, have I got a cause for you bud!

paperwarior posted...

[Edit: people think that] Rowling did nothing worse than express some milquetoast conservative views online.

kinda at this point "trans people should diaf" IS a milquetoast conservative view. It's one of their big campaign points.

One thing I'm having a hard time understanding is why the person that was planning on streaming the game and donating all revenue to trans charities was wrong? When I mentioned my wife purchased the game, one of the things I was told I should do to make things right was to donate an equal amount to a trans charity or something of that sort.

I have no idea how big this streamer is but they seemed to be a relatively well known or large one from the context, and if that's true, that could have been thousands of dollars to trans charities, but that's apparently a bad thing still? I've been personally involved in charity streams on twitch before, and if it's a someone/a group who is really trying to help they're going to be talking about the charity a lot, pushing for donations to said charity, explaining to people who don't know how their donations are going to help, and why they're needed. Not only are they raising money, they're helping to educate, which was something that was talked about earlier here. To me that seems like it would have been a win overall.

I can't wrap my head around how all of that is a negative towards the trans community. If I had to guess, there's some piece of the puzzle that I'm missing here as to that, and I'd really like to understand what I'm not getting. Sorry if I'm coming off as an ass here, that's definitely not my intent.

JKR is one person with shitty opinions. She isn't the champion of Cis rights. The Cis community doesn't sit around waiting to hear what Queen Rowling has to say on an issue. If the Trans Community wants to do something they should be fighting the government or getting themselves elected to office so their voices can properly be heard. (if the Maga assholes can do it...)

This boycott was not handled well. Keyboard Warrioring a Video Game was never going to do anything productive.

Obellisk posted...

The Cis community doesn't sit around waiting to hear what Queen Rowling has to say on an issue.

The TERFs do. Our enemy isn't the cis in general, our enemy is transphobes

Obellisk posted...

If the Trans Community wants to do something they should be fighting the government or getting themselves elected to office so their voices can properly be heard.

do you think we haven't been

AriaOfBolo posted...

The TERFs do. Our enemy isn't the cis in general, our enemy is transphobes

how large is the Terf community In the grand scheme of things here. are we talking two small groups of people fighting each other here? I'd never even heard the term TERF till 2 weeks ago.

AriaOfBolo posted...

do you think we haven't been

I can't say honestly, however i will say if. trans individual with good speaking points and not just a Trans Rights platform ran in my district I would vote their way.

Obellisk posted...

If the Trans Community wants to do something they should be fighting the government or getting themselves elected to office so their voices can properly be heard. (if the Maga assholes can do it...)

once again, i've been avoiding responding to this topic but...

come on man

AriaOfBolo posted...

Also it's been said a few times a few ways but it gets tiring seeing people handwring over death threats but only the ones my side sends. Like sure death threats bad either way but man if you don't like death threats and people being mean online, have I got a cause for you bud!

Everyone in this topic (unless someone on my Ignore list is posting that I've missed) already supports trans rights. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at. That people can't point out issues in a cause they support? Clearly you haven't browsed the Politics topic whenever left-wing figures they support do something questionable. The implication that anything but total obedience to a cause means you're not an ally is something you're going to have problems getting people to accept.

Natalie posted...

These are great examples of the double standard Grimlyn and Rock brought up, and something I touched on in the last thread. There's a skewed perspective put forth in a lot of media and online spaces that pins these actions on the trans community as a whole, probably related to the stereotype that trans people are mentally unstable. It's not fair to reframe the conversation in this way - to say, "Your human rights concerns are valid and all, but look at these unreasonable things your side is doing," as though that's a valid counterpoint.

I think a sentiment that's lost in translation between trans and cis people is how it feels to hear your community and human rights movement talked about in terms of optics and presentation, to hear people saying the boycott should have been staged and explained better or that those energies should have gone towards some higher, more productive mechanism instead. Hearing outsiders discuss things in this dispassionate way kind of hurts, especially when you know they're not invested in it at all. It's not really accurate to view this whole thing as an organized, planned boycott with premeditation and a game plan and clear goals: it's a natural outcome from a lot of people sharing a feeling about Rowling and her work and her activism, and no individual is going to be responsible for the entirety of how that plays out. When you argue about whether it's a waste of time or whether it's ineffective or whether it's a failure, you're applying those criticisms to people's feelings, not a political event, and that's kind of lame.

I dont think you realize that excluding cis people from trying to strategize effective opportunities for help in trans efforts solely on the basis of being cis makes them want to throw their hands up and say its not their problem then.

The optics of death threats from trans people are bad. Full stop, and trying to plan or support fundraisers or events to help change narrative is a good thing and completely irrelevant who it is coming from.

Aecioo posted...

once again, i've been avoiding responding to this topic but...

come on man

Wow, cant believe they didnt realize just getting elected solves all the problems

Aecioo posted...

once again, i've been avoiding responding to this topic but...

come on man

I'm not trying to be an ass. I'm just pointing out that sitting on your computer complaining that individuals are hurting you by buying a video game is not productive.

RaidenGarai posted...

One thing I'm having a hard time understanding is why the person that was planning on streaming the game and donating all revenue to trans charities was wrong?

That one's more debatable than the standard "well but you don't get it I really liked this when I was eight" argument. It's been covered over the past 550 posts but the quick points against are:

-You don't need to play this game to do that
-It's sending the message that trans rights are important, but not important enough to not showcase this cool game!!
-It's cool to send money to Trevor Project or whatever but it'd be even better to not contribute to people needing it in the first place. It's like carbon offsets, still probably not as good as just not doing the bad thing but now you can feel off the hook. Also puts us in a kinda weird spot when we're the "...but I gave you some money, so we're like, cool, right?" targets.
-Jewish people are getting no kickback in this scenario, and I think they actually take a bigger hit from this specific game than the trans people do. It's transphobic mostly by association, but the anti-semitism is baked into the plot.

It ain't a hill I'm going to die on but I'm still not convinced charity streams of HL are a net positive.

Obellisk posted...

I'm not trying to be an ass. I'm just pointing out that sitting on your computer complaining that individuals are hurting you by buying a video game is not productive.

Just get elected isnt any more helpful than telling someone with credit card bills Just spend less money

Obellisk posted...

how large is the Terf community In the grand scheme of things here.

sizable, especially if you also add the garden variety transphobes

Obellisk posted...

I'm not trying to be an ass. I'm just pointing out that sitting on your computer complaining that individuals are hurting you by buying a video game is not productive.

and pearl clutching about optics, is?

masterplum posted...

excluding cis people from trying to strategize effective opportunities for help in trans efforts

I mean like this topic I don't see anybody coming up with cool new ideas (that we haven't been trying to do for years), just finger waggling

KamikazePotato posted...

The implication that anything but total obedience to a cause means you're not an ally is something you're going to have problems getting people to accept.

That is not what I'm pushing, what I am pushing is where's my 550 posts about children's hospitals having to shut down, or the Trump video from a few days ago, or any time Rowling responds to somebody. Where's this energy when it happens to us on a grander scale for much longer? It's reminding me of the whole "well why doesn't he just stand for the anthem and educate people later" shtick.

masterplum posted...

Just get elected isnt any more helpful than telling someone with credit card bills Just spend less money

Wheres the Trans Communities Harvey Milk?

also, that's a bad comparison.

Telling the trans community to just get elected might as well be like telling African Americans to just all become police officers. Fighting the government doesnt appear to be working out too well for most people

AriaOfBolo posted...

That is not what I'm pushing, what I am pushing is where's my 550 posts about children's hospitals having to shut down, or the Trump video from a few days ago, or any time Rowling responds to somebody. Where's this energy when it happens to us on a grander scale for much longer? It's reminding me of the whole "well why doesn't he just stand for the anthem and educate people later" shtick.

What exactly is there to talk about with any of those issues? Everyone here agrees that those things are terrible. There is nothing to be gleaned from it except sadness and misery. This subject (specifically, Hogwarts Legacy, not JK Rowling) reached 550 posts because there was something to debate. I've already voted against Trump twice, it's not like I can vote against him harder because he keeps being awful.

KamikazePotato posted...

Everyone here agrees that those things are terrible. There is nothing to be gleaned from it except sadness and misery.

Pretty sure everyone here agrees we shouldn't be sending death threats over this, too, but, here we are.

Honestly, I get the anger and the outrage even if I am never going to get the problem. To me, this feels like a issue that exists for people who experience racial and antisemetic issues too

People still listen to Kanye, drive volvos, support cops etc. Issues that are constantly brought up are often ignored. Frustration leads to Riots, which leads to news covering it in a negative way and people being told hey you are dragging the movement down

its a endless cycle but I really dont know what the solution is

LiquidOshawott posted...

Issues that are constantly brought up are often ignored. Frustration leads to Riots, which leads to news covering it in a negative way and people being told hey you are dragging the movement down

being on the other side of that has taught me a damn lot about empathy
it's really hard to convey feelings and realities to somebody who just ain't ever going to experience them firsthand
I ain't a perfect ally on the axes where I'm the privileged one, but I'm a lot more invested in trying than I was as an egg.

2 Fantastic Beast movies came out since the announcement/leak of this videogame.

I don't recall any boycotts when those movies came out.

I don't hear news about Trans Community Boycotting outside Universal Studios on a daily basis.

I guess I don't understand why the videogsme community is being attacked and blamed for their problems.

Obellisk posted...

I don't recall any boycotts when those movies came out.

for sure happened, there just wasn't as much backlash making it a big deal

Obellisk posted...

I don't hear news about Trans Community Boycotting outside Universal Studios on a daily basis.

you got money for my plane ticket, missed work, room and board, and probably a gun and a lawyer since it's Florida? let's do it

Obellisk posted...

2 Fantastic Beast movies came out since the announcement/leak of this videogame.

I don't recall any boycotts when those movies came out.

I don't hear news about Trans Community Boycotting outside Universal Studios on a daily basis.

I guess I don't understand why the videogsme community is being attacked and blamed for their problems.

I think it was only the third one that came out when Rowlings comments started being prominent, the movies being bad probably helped (Kinda ironic there was more controversy about Depp not being in 3 than this)

and I dont think anyone would want to boycott in Florida there, thats being a sitting duck.

Obellisk posted...

how large is the Terf community In the grand scheme of things here. are we talking two small groups of people fighting each other here? I'd never even heard the term TERF till 2 weeks ago.

I can't say honestly, however i will say if. trans individual with good speaking points and not just a Trans Rights platform ran in my district I would vote their way.

Oh my god shut the fuck up you insufferable fool.

LiquidOshawott posted...

I think it was only the third one that came out when Rowlings comments started being prominent, the movies being bad probably helped (Kinda ironic there was more controversy about Depp not being in 3 than this)

and I dont think anyone would want to boycott in Florida there, thats being a sitting duck.

I did some googling, yeah, all that comes up is Depp Boycotts.

Obellisk posted...

I did some googling, yeah, all that comes up is Depp Boycotts.

Two for one combo!

Eddv posted...

Oh my god shut the fuck up you insufferable fool.

feel better?

As for why Hogwarts Legacy is going to be the first hit post-film series, I dont fully agree with that (Cursed Child was massive even though people hated it, the first Fantastic Beasts made 800 million), but there are a few things we need to bear in mind:

-First of all, even if this game sells 30 million copies, thats still less than the last Fantastic Beasts sold tickets and that movie underperformed. Games are still not as widespread as movies.

-Games are a lot more expensive to buy than movies and for now cheaper to make though they are catching up. They are a better investment and more likely to succeed.

-Demographically, video games overlap heavily with Harry Potters target audience so I suspect a very large portion of people who are buying this game went to see that movie.

-This is the first big AAA Harry Potter game which has a huge impact, it also hasnt had time to wear on people like 11 movies over 21 years.

-Big licenced IP is the future of AAA games. As budgets increase you are more likely to see a game sell huge numbers with a significant IP attached. Especially now that the licenced game stigma has gone. The fact is even a declined Harry Potter is still bigger than 95%+ of gaming franchises.

Expect to see a lot more licenced AAA games both getting released and doing huge numbers from now on. Jedi Survivor will do similar numbers in April (Fallen Order was massive). Frankly it is more surprising that it took this long for the IP surge to happen. Arkham City sold 12.5 million in a year which is wild by 2011 standards, it was probably the #2 or #3 selling game that year, then Telltales Walking Dead did huge numbers the year after. I guess the shift to a new generation and a few high profile misses (like EA and Square botching their Star Wars/Marvel deals) took the wind out of licences sails until it picked back up a few years later and is really getting going now.

The point is, there are absolutely even bigger IP than Harry Potter getting AAA games this year that if good can expect enormous sales. There are new Star Wars, Marvel, and Avatar AAA games out this year and all three of those are bigger than Harry Potter. And you have a lot more franchises set to release big games over the next few years. Its just that gaming is still small enough for even a non-peak IP to see huge numbers sold, which is why Hogwarts Legacy is able to succeed in the gaming realm.

I dont know if Avatar is bigger than Harry Potter

maybe from a global standpoint.

also since its Ubisoft are we even sure it still exists?

Avatar is one of the biggest media franchises on the planet and the second one just made $2.2 billion dollars. It will have sold nearly 2x as many tickets in two months as even the first Harry Potter sold books in two decades. I would only confidently put Marvel ahead of Avatar (in terms of media anyway, not merch). I think Ubisoft are going to be banking on that game hard. Of course I think Ubisoft havent had an 85+ rated game aside from Mario+Rabbids in nearly a decade so I dont know if it will be great!

Avatar is big but I have a feeling its overlap with gamers isn't that high. It's guaranteed to sell millions but not MILLIONS.

I do think a GOTY-contender Avatar game with the right marketing push *could* do 20-30 million. However given that this is current Ubisoft were talking about I doubt they can fulfil all those conditions.

MacArrowny posted...

Trans people sending death threats to streamers who play HL and donate all the revenue to pro trans charities is 100% a failure on their part.

A lot of them are false flags. Like... I've seen people harass one of the third-party devs who were saying they weren't going to buy the game (simply because "Oh, but you worked on it! Are you going to donate all your salary to trans causes?), and then I check their bio and they're all MAGA. Check their previous tweets, and they're super sus. I'm sure there's some who aren't false flags, but a lot of them are.

LiquidOshawott posted...

Honestly, I get the anger and the outrage even if I am never going to get the problem. To me, this feels like a issue that exists for people who experience racial and antisemetic issues too

People still listen to Kanye, drive volvos, support cops etc. Issues that are constantly brought up are often ignored. Frustration leads to Riots, which leads to news covering it in a negative way and people being told hey you are dragging the movement down

its a endless cycle but I really dont know what the solution is

I honestly think the only real solution is money. These individuals and companies have power and influence and a platform because they have money. The only realm thing you can do as a single entity person is just not buy the game and take the $5 out of JKRs pocket. It's basically inconsequential, but there aren't a whole lot of other options that don't result in poor press and crappy "take the high ground" arguments that often hurt the movements in the eye of the public.

The status quo is strong and when "super angry" is the response with doses of violence, all the non effected go "omg these people are so bad I can't support them" because it's just so easy to disregard people when you think "they aren't good people".

I get why there is anger, and it's super easy for me to say as a privileged white cis dude (who is bi but whatever), but I don't actually think the anger is productive. I think it just provides ammo to all the fence sitter's to say "ya I dunno, they seem really angry and violent" and just dismiss.

Ashethan posted...

A lot of them are false flags. Like... I've seen people harass one of the third-party devs who were saying they weren't going to buy the game (simply because "Oh, but you worked on it! Are you going to donate all your salary to trans causes?), and then I check their bio and they're all MAGA. Check their previous tweets, and they're super sus. I'm sure there's some who aren't false flags, but a lot of them are.

Also another part of the issue. The platform of the internet makes it super easy for people to stir a pot that they aren't even a part of just to make "the other team" look bad.

The internet is such a weird place to do all this shit. It's the main platform but it's such a new space vs how this stuff happened 20-30 years ago. Not sure we know exactly the best way to utilize it

internet is only good for spreading misinformation and passive aggressive arguments.

MacArrowny posted...

Trans people sending death threats to streamers who play HL and donate all the revenue to pro trans charities is 100% a failure on their part.

There arent any trans activists sending death threats to streamers who donate all the revenue to trans charities.

The one that got a lot of news, Girlfriend Reviews, people went back to check the chat, and 99% of the comments that upset them were things like this is really disappointing and why not just support what were asking and not play it?

pezzicle posted...

I honestly think the only real solution is money. These individuals and companies have power and influence and a platform because they have money. The only realm thing you can do as a single entity person is just not buy the game and take the $5 out of JKRs pocket. It's basically inconsequential, but there aren't a whole lot of other options that don't result in poor press and crappy "take the high ground" arguments that often hurt the movements in the eye of the public.

The status quo is strong and when "super angry" is the response with doses of violence, all the non effected go "omg these people are so bad I can't support them" because it's just so easy to disregard people when you think "they aren't good people".

I get why there is anger, and it's super easy for me to say as a privileged white cis dude (who is bi but whatever), but I don't actually think the anger is productive. I think it just provides ammo to all the fence sitter's to say "ya I dunno, they seem really angry and violent" and just dismiss.

the problem is Rowling has more than enough money that even if this game sold no copies and she received no more income she would be able to live a very easily sustainable and affluent life. its the same argument for someone like Elon Musk buying Twitter, even if it completely fails its just a drop in a bucket for him.

Best thing I can think of is education and awareness, especially against misinformation.

Very true, but that's also hard when people just go "well that's biased" or something. So many people just dismiss actually factual information just because. Education only really works when people are open to having their views changed which just isn't the case with a huge amount of people

Obellisk posted...

I can't say honestly, however i will say if. trans individual with good speaking points and not just a Trans Rights platform ran in my district I would vote their way.

TIL a trans rights platform is not a good speaking point

tazzyboyishere posted...

TIL a trans rights platform is not a good speaking point

No, you misunderstand. He's a good ally because he'd vote for a candidate that supported trans rights so long as he'd vote for them for their other stances anyway!

AriaOfBolo posted...

paperwarior posted...
[Edit: people think that] Rowling did nothing worse than express some milquetoast conservative views online.

kinda at this point "trans people should diaf" IS a milquetoast conservative view. It's one of their big campaign points.

Even then, Rowling has done worse than saying that online. My point is, just as death threats are ubiquitous, so is the effect of the least constructive voices getting amplified and actual information getting buried on social media. That's what I'm frustrated with. There wasn't some sort of big tactical misstep made by choice.

He wouldn't specifically anti-vote a trans person just for being trans, just if they wanted rights!

LiquidOshawott posted...

the problem is Rowling has more than enough money that even if this game sold no copies and she received no more income she would be able to live a very easily sustainable and affluent life.

Honestly? I'd be fine with Rowling hecking off somewhere to live an affluent life and feel like she won, if she would just STOP. I don't care much whether (or not) she suffers or gets upset, I just want her to be less effective of a weapon against us. Same thing with Trump, DeSantis, Abbott, Musk, pretty much every supervillain of my story. I'm not above schadenfreude but I'm more about results than feelings. I'm less interested in the spite angle or the wrecking her legacy angle than I am the $5 ultimately going to Libs of TikTok or whatever.

pezzicle posted...

Education only really works when people are open to having their views changed which just isn't the case with a huge amount of people

and yeah, this is the problem. we've been trying the good-optics route and losing ground, that's why we're onto the bad-optics route now I think. Will it just tick off the moderates and bad guys? Possibly, but how many of them were actually going to help much anyway?

paperwarior posted...

That's what I'm frustrated with.

you ain't wrong, I just wanted to put that out there: it's like one of the main issues of the US (and I think UK?) right, and like two people tops in each of my social circles seem to care if I bring it up. I can't even motivate my cis friends and family with education and information and all that.