Board 8 > Hogwarts Legacy: Wired 1/10

(+) Yeah! (+)

Obellisk posted...

I can't say honestly, however i will say if. trans individual with good speaking points and not just a Trans Rights platform ran in my district I would vote their way.

Thank you for demonstrating the problem.

People generally will support trans-rights in the vague. But ask them to actually NOT vote for someone who wants to actively harm them? That's a step too far.

"It's terrible that my congressman wants to end trans rights, but I agree with them on everything else so I'm still going to vote for them."

Natalie posted...

These are great examples of the double standard Grimlyn and Rock brought up, and something I touched on in the last thread. There's a skewed perspective put forth in a lot of media and online spaces that pins these actions on the trans community as a whole, probably related to the stereotype that trans people are mentally unstable. It's not fair to reframe the conversation in this way - to say, "Your human rights concerns are valid and all, but look at these unreasonable things your side is doing," as though that's a valid counterpoint.

I think a sentiment that's lost in translation between trans and cis people is how it feels to hear your community and human rights movement talked about in terms of optics and presentation, to hear people saying the boycott should have been staged and explained better or that those energies should have gone towards some higher, more productive mechanism instead. Hearing outsiders discuss things in this dispassionate way kind of hurts, especially when you know they're not invested in it at all. It's not really accurate to view this whole thing as an organized, planned boycott with premeditation and a game plan and clear goals: it's a natural outcome from a lot of people sharing a feeling about Rowling and her work and her activism, and no individual is going to be responsible for the entirety of how that plays out. When you argue about whether it's a waste of time or whether it's ineffective or whether it's a failure, you're applying those criticisms to people's feelings, not a political event, and that's kind of lame.

I give the same advice to trans people as I do with any group fighting for systemic change. Which is to heavily police your own, stick to the problem at hand, and dont give free ammo to the fascists.

It's pretty stupid to think anything I have said here boils down to a counter argument against human rights. Nothing that can be said here, or by any trans person, can take away their human rights in my eyes. If I can still believe Republicans deserve healthcare then it is pretty easy to keep that stance here. This includes people harassing streamers for playing a game. They get human rights too.

Also I am not even sure the person who harassed the streamer was trans. A lot of extreme views I have seen personally (so not second hand) were from trans allies which is why I never made it out to be purely on trans/cis lines in terms of thought.

But here's an unfortunate spoiler. Optics matter a lot Everything is about moving the needle of the thoughtless majority. If reason and kindness ruled the day everyone would have rights, police budgets would be cut, and everyone in my country would have Healthcare. Now at any time anyone can say fuck optics and I am down. If you want to call Everything bullshit and just fucking scream because fascists are insane jackasses then I am here for that. It won't be productive and hey as long as everyone can admit it's not productive then I find screaming to be quite fun. I do it into a pillow several times a week.

We are all fighting for our lives in different ways. My struggles are not trans struggles but I stick to the same ethos with this issue as I do any left wing position.

At the end of the day, people can do whatever they want. If trans people are happy with the results then I am happy with the results. Only time will tell if this whole thing has a net positive on how trans people are viewed. But being on the same side as someone else does mean that I am going to be critical of their actions if I think they are stupid. I am across the board on this and I am not leaving trans people out of this standard.

I try very hard not to let blown up stories or second hand sources influence me because of course there is going to be a lot of bad faith actors and media manipulation around this.

The truth is most of the issues I fight for have a lot of stupid people involved, and tbh trans rights probably has the best ratio of smart to stupid people I have seen if it makes anyone feel better...!

Yeah, I'm not the problem here.

I believe in equal rights for all but it's not my responsibility to make it a reality.

Obellisk posted...

Yeah, I'm not the problem here.

I believe in equal rights for all but it's not my responsibility to make it a reality.

What issues are more important than trans rights to you

SirChris posted...

I give the same advice to trans people as I do with any group fighting for systemic change.

Okay but like, before anyone reads your wall of text, what's your experience in handling adversity and creating systemic change? Like, why would you be a good advisor for this?

Obellisk posted...

Yeah, I'm not the problem here.

I believe in equal rights for all but it's not my responsibility to make it a reality.

You literally are you just think you're smarter than you actually are

Edit: sorry that's mean and dismissive. But you literally can vote to make the change. Plenty of trans people have tried and failed to attain office because people don't vote for them.

SirChris posted...

If you want to call Everything bulls*** and just f***ing scream because fascists are insane jackasses then I am here for that. It won't be productive and hey as long as everyone can admit it's not productive then I find screaming to be quite fun.

aight cool glad that's settled, grimlyn might be a harder sell but I'm kinda to the point of "might as well go down swinging"

or if I can implement like the one thing I learned from mercs: don't die (in Touhou/shmups) with bombs in your inventory

tazzyboyishere posted...

You literally are you just think you're smarter than you actually are

Edit: sorry that's mean and dismissive. But you literally can vote to make the change. Plenty of trans people have tried and failed to attain office because people don't vote for them.

I vote. every election. more then most people do in this country.

How many trans people do you vote for?

tazzyboyishere posted...

Okay but like, before anyone reads your wall of text, what's your experience in handling adversity and creating systemic change? Like, why would you be a good advisor for this?

You literally are you just think you're smarter than you actually are

Edit: sorry that's mean and dismissive. But you literally can vote to make the change. Plenty of trans people have tried and failed to attain office because people don't vote for them.

Handling adversity? Hm. I suppose my go to are two things. My mother's prolonged illness due to a lack of health care and her subsequent death was enough to give me severe ptsd as well as choose my life's work: healthcare

Also it isn't as much as some but I was homeless for months years ago due to a series of very destructive bad decisions and I fought my way back from that. I feel like I did a good job there.

I have sat in rooms with CEOs of multi national corporations. I have heard how they think about charity, social causes, and how they use their money to influence. I know how important optics are TO THEM. I know the signaling the end of a culture war is when they decide it is safe to make money from that group writ large. It is why non social issues are harder to push through. Nothing in it for those people.

Perhaps I am unqualified to speak, but my toxic trait is I am too tired to care tbh. I am probably going to be dead before 50 due to illness so I am giving advice to everyone before I go.

tazzyboyishere posted...

How many trans people do you vote for?

how many have run in my district? I believe none. If they did , did they stand for my democratic values? were they interested in lowering taxes and unemployment? were they for or against public schools?

Since we're talking about the more general discourse around this outside this topic, I'll mention something that I think is just really tiring and maybe a bit responsible for some of the frustration - I'm seeing a lot of the same people who, for example, during the George Floyd protests and calls for Abolish the Police were saying things (in response to "Guys this doesn't poll well, people are going to run to the Republicans" like "Fuck the optics, it isn't the role of activists to make sure everything they do is messaged perfectly, that's for the politicians.", "Working within the system normally hasn't worked.", "The whole point is to disrupt people's lives and call attention to the issue." but now when it's Hogwarts Legacy it's, Whoa, whoa, whoa. You guys gotta stop this and take a look around. Do you see how this looks? It's setting back the movement!" and it's just fucking exhausting seeing the naked hypocrisy.

Not saying that's true of anyone here but it's hard not to let that frustration bleed into responses when seeing that argument even if the hypocrisy component isn't necessarily present.

Thorn posted...

Since we're talking about the more general discourse around this outside this topic, I'll mention something that I think is just really tiring and maybe a bit responsible for some of the frustration - I'm seeing a lot of the same people who, for example, during the George Floyd protests and calls for Abolish the Police were saying things (in response to "Guys this doesn't poll well, people are going to run to the Republicans" like "Fuck the optics, it isn't the role of activists to make sure everything they do is messaged perfectly, that's for the politicians.", "Working within the system normally hasn't worked.", "The whole point is to disrupt people's lives and call attention to the issue." but now when it's Hogwarts Legacy it's, Whoa, whoa, whoa. You guys gotta stop this and take a look around. Do you see how this looks? It's setting back the movement!" and it's just fucking exhausting seeing the naked hypocrisy.

Not saying that's true of anyone here but it's hard not to let that frustration bleed into responses when seeing that argument even if the hypocrisy component isn't necessarily present.

You are going to lose people when comparing a murder to a video game release.

Should you lose people? No. But you are going to because the bad connection isn't immediately obvious.

That being said I am usually a whore for optics but I will say fuck polling lol

I don't know if it's the same people but the parallels aren't lost on me

and like, with all the momentum and public support BLM had, what did it actually accomplish? like one conviction? they went the bad optics route, they actually pulled it off, they had people generally leaning their way, and.....it just kinda got stamped out by The Man anyway, unless I'm missing something. Doesn't put me in a mood to pull punches for the sake of public opinion, when public opinion doesn't seem to actually matter on the structural level.

Everybody is responsible for human rights. Thats how society works. Honestly going Well of course I care but its just not my problem! is the worst thing thats been said in this thread.

Here we really need to look at history and the rise of the Nazis. The Nazis were always very obvious in their anti-semitism but it wasnt why people voted for them, it was mostly about the economy and the middle class in rural or suburban areas worrying about losing what they had. Relatively few supported their anti-semitic policies and it was widely believed before 1933 that they would abandon them once in power. Obviously they did not. It should also be noted that they never truly got voted in democratically, they gamed flaws in the democratic system and used voter suppression to come to power. This should all sound quite familiar.

In short you do bare some responsibility as you live in society. There is already something you can do to help protect trans people thats really easy as well: dont vote for the fascists, ie the Republicans. They are a far-right party (I talk about it in the politics topic but studies show that not only are they far-right, they are one of the most far-right parties in the world) who have genocidal policies towards a vulnerable minority as well as a load of other nightmarish stuff, it should be very easy to oppose them.

AriaOfBolo posted...

That one's more debatable than the standard "well but you don't get it I really liked this when I was eight" argument. It's been covered over the past 550 posts but the quick points against are:

-You don't need to play this game to do that
-It's sending the message that trans rights are important, but not important enough to not showcase this cool game!!
-It's cool to send money to Trevor Project or whatever but it'd be even better to not contribute to people needing it in the first place. It's like carbon offsets, still probably not as good as just not doing the bad thing but now you can feel off the hook. Also puts us in a kinda weird spot when we're the "...but I gave you some money, so we're like, cool, right?" targets.
-Jewish people are getting no kickback in this scenario, and I think they actually take a bigger hit from this specific game than the trans people do. It's transphobic mostly by association, but the anti-semitism is baked into the plot.

It ain't a hill I'm going to die on but I'm still not convinced charity streams of HL are a net positive.

Thank you for taking the time to put those bullet points out. This is a subject I dont have a lot of knowledge in, if that wasnt obvious. I understand things from the streamer side because I know a lot about twitch and that stuff, but Im not close enough to the issues trans people face daily to really understand how all of this looks to and impacts them.

RaidenGarai posted...

Im not close enough to the issues trans people face daily to really understand how all of this looks to them.

I will point out we're not a monolith on this or much of anything else, there are people who are a lot more vehemently opposed to the idea and there are people who are doing it themselves, but in my experience the average response is an eyeroll

Well anyway I am going to go live in the past by playing some dragon quest.

Would be happy to continue any lines of thought privately, but I feel like I have expressed myself to the best of my ability already on this subject.

Now go read the dresden files tbh

Go watch or read the play Good which examines how normal good people can become complicit in fascism, discrimination and ultimately genocide as well as how everybody underestimated the far-right until it was too late.

Obellisk posted...

Yeah, I'm not the problem here.

I believe in equal rights for all but it's not my responsibility to make it a reality.

Wat

SirChris posted...

playing some dragon quest.

best post in this topic

hey did you hear about the dragon quest compo-*is shot*

To be fair he ded. Yeah though, Dragon Quest money probably went go funding an ad in the WSJ denying some of the most horrific war crimes in human history.

Anyway, the whole I just care about the economy and lower taxes thing borders on being a dogwhistle. Have the far-right ever NOT been elected on the economy?

People seemed to turn on Sugiyama fairly easily, but that's probably because people in the west don't care about DQ music. Would've been a tougher sell if it was, like, Nobuo Uematsu.

Being elected for combating the woke agenda is now happening, unfortunately

AriaOfBolo posted...

hey did you hear about the dragon quest compo-*is shot*

Just a lovely reminder that Saudi Arabia owns 6% of Nintendo.

Gonna just say it again but everyone should definitely just be pirating all major AAA releases at this point.

Unrelated but I love fit girls

Ashethan posted...

Just a lovely reminder that Saudi Arabia owns 6% of Nintendo.

oh neat

I sincerely hate the whole fighting woke thing. Imagine how fucking vile of a human being you have to be to believe that spreading a lack of empathy to people for being different from you is a good thing.

swordz9 posted...

Imagine how fucking vile of a human being you have to be to believe that spreading a lack of empathy to people for being different from you is a good thing.

This is a pretty big logical fallacy. Nobody becomes a bigot because they want to be hateful. They do it because they want to protect something, whether that is a group of people, a way of life, or the status quo.

DeepsPraw posted...

This is a pretty big logical fallacy. Nobody becomes a bigot because they want to be hateful. They do it because they want to protect something, whether that is a group of people, a way of life, or the status quo.

These are actually the same thing, just with a veneer of respectability.

When no one is actually in danger (and when your way of life/status quo is actually shit) it is in fact just hate motivated by hate. Or, in the US, it's more like hate motivated by a need for a distraction/wedge issue that you can get elected on, but the hate is still super important.

Kenri posted...

These are actually the same thing, just with a veneer of respectability.

I completely disagree. You can't just hate someone out of the blue. I feel like as milennials, our schoolteachers have completely failed us on understanding the root causes of prejudice. I remember it was drilled into our heads that racism was caused by people who hated others "simply because of the color of their skin".
Kenri posted...

When no one is actually in danger (and when your way of life/status quo is actually shit) it is in fact just hate motivated by hate.

Is that what you think is happening with the JKR/TERF situation? Gender critical people will definitely debate you on that.

Kenri posted...

These are actually the same thing, just with a veneer of respectability.

When no one is actually in danger (and when your way of life/status quo is actually shit) it is in fact just hate motivated by hate. Or, in the US, it's more like hate motivated by a need for a distraction/wedge issue that you can get elected on, but the hate is still super important.

I think I'd argue that it's hate motivated by fear

Gender critical people will definitely debate me on a lot of things.

Side note but we gotta retake the name "gender critical" from these people, it's like Catholics calling themselves "Pope critical".

DeepsPraw posted...

This is a pretty big logical fallacy. Nobody becomes a bigot because they want to be hateful. They do it because they want to protect something, whether that is a group of people, a way of life, or the status quo.

What are you trying to protect with all of your blatantly transphobic posts on the politics board, if you don't mind me asking?

HashtagSEP posted...

What are you trying to protect with all of your blatantly transphobic posts on the politics board, if you don't mind me asking?

A trans person gave him a boner one time and it made Jesus cry

I'm not sure if the worst post last night was "Human rights aren't my problem," or "Where's the trans Harvey Milk?" Jesus christ.

I don't think you can succinctly bin the motivation behind these prejudices into either hate or fear, it has to be a mix. Many of the people who are perpetrating these politics seem to be doing so from the moral high ground, casting spiteful judgment upon the groups and lifestyles they deem unacceptable. The way this is sold to the public is a mixed bag. Sometimes it's fear: all your bathrooms are belong to trans people. Sometimes it's framed in a way that engenders hate instead, like the Jewish cabal theories. These two emotions intermingle in all of us.

SirChris posted...

[a bunch of other stuff too]

I have sat in rooms with CEOs of multi national corporations. I have heard how they think about charity, social causes, and how they use their money to influence. I know how important optics are TO THEM. I know the signaling the end of a culture war is when they decide it is safe to make money from that group writ large. It is why non social issues are harder to push through. Nothing in it for those people.

Perhaps I am unqualified to speak, but my toxic trait is I am too tired to care tbh. I am probably going to be dead before 50 due to illness so I am giving advice to everyone before I go.

I appreciate your perspective, and that's a valuable experience to have, seeing the inside of corporate machines and being involved in their machinations. I don't want to downplay that. (And as someone who has experience with chronic illness, I wish you well on your health.) And you're not wrong that optics matter to people. The thing that bothers me is when you say:

SirChris posted...

I give the same advice to trans people as I do with any group fighting for systemic change. Which is to heavily police your own, stick to the problem at hand, and dont give free ammo to the fascists.

And this bothers me because it places responsibility on us for these rogue actions. There are millions of trans people; how do you "police" your own side there? It's not an organization, there's no central command or mechanism to ostracize a bad actor. I think you're a good ally and I'm not trying to indict you here, but in the discussion about optics it feels like it's made to be our fault when optically undesirable things happen, and given that we both know these things are rife with false flags, I don't know what to take away from this.

pezzicle posted...

I think I'd argue that it's hate motivated by fear

I don't think I agree. If anything fear can be leveraged to win more rights for oppressed groups in some circumstances. This is why, for example, Ida B Wells said the best defense against being lynched was owning a Winchester. But even if hate does come from fear: where does the fear come from?

DeepsPraw posted...

I completely disagree. You can't just hate someone out of the blue. I feel like as milennials, our schoolteachers have completely failed us on understanding the root causes of prejudice. I remember it was drilled into our heads that racism was caused by people who hated others "simply because of the color of their skin".

To expand a little on this: my take as someone with two degrees in US history is that "it was because of the color of their skin" is more inaccurate than straight-up incorrect. It wasn't because of skin color and we know that because light-skinned black people were also oppressed, and because oppression exists within groups that all share a skin color.

But it is a convenient marker for who to oppress, isn't it? And that marker could be anything. Hair color, eye color, skin color, the way you talk, the way you walk, the place you live, whether you own a sheep or not, really anything at all. The justification that says "actually people with [trait] are subhuman" comes post hoc, after the oppression supposedly caused by it, as a way of shifting the blame.

The truth is that oppression and bigotry come from opportunity. They come from a powerful group realizing there's a way for them to gain an advantage over others. It has absolutely nothing to do with the oppressed group. 0%. It's entirely arbitrary.

We teach kids "black people were hated just for the color of their skin" because that's a explanation that most people aren't significantly troubled by. The alternative explanation is "some otherwise indistinguishable humans throughout history are arbitrarily and systemically hated because it is economically and politically profitable to other groups to do so" and that's uncomfortable because it assigns much more blame.

Natalie posted...

"Where's the trans Harvey Milk?" Jesus christ.

yeah i decided to let that one go but holy shit, one of the worst things i've ever seen posted on this board

Natalie posted...

I'm not sure if the worst post last night was "Human rights aren't my problem," or "Where's the trans Harvey Milk?" Jesus christ.

I don't think you can succinctly bin the motivation behind these prejudices into either hate or fear, it has to be a mix. Many of the people who are perpetrating these politics seem to be doing so from the moral high ground, casting spiteful judgment upon the groups and lifestyles they deem unacceptable. The way this is sold to the public is a mixed bag. Sometimes it's fear: all your bathrooms are belong to trans people. Sometimes it's framed in a way that engenders hate instead, like the Jewish cabal theories. These two emotions intermingle in all of us.

I appreciate your perspective, and that's a valuable experience to have, seeing the inside of corporate machines and being involved in their machinations. I don't want to downplay that. (And as someone who has experience with chronic illness, I wish you well on your health.) And you're not wrong that optics matter to people. The thing that bothers me is when you say:

And this bothers me because it places responsibility on us for these rogue actions. There are millions of trans people; how do you "police" your own side there? It's not an organization, there's no central command or mechanism to ostracize a bad actor. I think you're a good ally and I'm not trying to indict you here, but in the discussion about optics it feels like it's made to be our fault when optically undesirable things happen, and given that we both know these things are rife with false flags, I don't know what to take away from this.

It doesn't matter if it's your fault is the problem. Perhaps this has been missed from earlier points but none of this is your fault. Or even the fault of the most uncool violent trans person. This is systemic abuse and the deck is rigged against you. The media is rigged against you. You are playing an unfair game with your very life and the rules are different from you. Like they are different for minorities discussing police reform. Like they are different for leftists who want Healthcare reform.

None of this is your fault. Society has let you down. Clearly. Repeatedly. Cruelly.

Its why I am fine with the option of just screaming into the void if anyone wants. It's valid as fuck.

But I know this is rigged and I still want you to win though. But if you don't want to play I also get that. Because of course it's cruel and it shouldn't even be a fucking debate. You should have human rights. Police shouldn't be allowed to shoot people for no reason. People shouldn't die for being poor. All of these things are heart breaking to me and I take them personally.

But most people don't care. They don't have the capacity to care because they have other things to care about and you don't fit into their life. You don't matter to them. Which can either be dangerous or beneficial to you depending on optics. That's the power of optics. Getting people who could not care less about you to mildly side with you so that laws look bad and politicians lose power over them. It's what eventually happened with gay rights.

Also this is in no way a suggestion on any level to not fight. In case this could be construed that way.

Kenri posted...

I don't think I agree. If anything fear can be leveraged to win more rights for oppressed groups in some circumstances. This is why, for example, Ida B Wells said the best defense against being lynched was owning a Winchester. But even if hate does come from fear: where does the fear come from?

One of the most basic questions that you ask someone in a therapy questions is: "what would happen if that part stopped doing it's job? What is that part afraid would occur if it wasn't doing what it thinks it's supposed to?"

Hate is protective. But protective of what is the question

To be fair I'm looking at this through that kind of lens cause I'm a certified IFS clinical psychologist so bear that in mind lol

Also can I just say that everyone here discusses stuff with relative respect and it's pretty refreshing. Even people who are disagreeing are pretty open to just talking and discussing without just blatant obnoxisousness

I may say stupid things but I do understand the issues and do not mean any disrespect to any of you or the cause.

pezzicle posted...

One of the most basic questions that you ask someone in a therapy questions is: "what would happen if that part stopped doing it's job? What is that part afraid would occur if it wasn't doing what it thinks it's supposed to?"

Hate is protective. But protective of what is the question

To be fair I'm looking at this through that kind of lens cause I'm a certified IFS clinical psychologist so bear that in mind lol

What sort of answer would you expect (or is this a rhetorical question)?

I think I've been asked the same question in therapy myself (about a completely different fear though) and didn't really have an answer for it. But that was for a pretty intangible fear. If it was about something like a fear of spiders (which I had as a kid) my answer would be more like "nothing would happen, my fear is 100% unreasonable". This is potentially straying off-topic but I'm curious to hear your thoughts if you're up to posting about it!

Obellisk posted...

I may say stupid things but I do understand the issues and do not mean any disrespect to any of you or the cause.

You said you didn't know what TERFs were until two weeks ago yet are still trying to give trans people "advice" about how they should better their cause, so pardon me if I'm not convinced you really understand the issues.

Yeah the "police your own" perspective isn't a new one, it's one I first had issue with from people blaming muslims for not preventing terrorists as if people were ever even listening to muslim voices in the first place.

It's an incredibly easy thing for the majority to say when it never applies to them. The majority class are incredibly quick to separate from themselves. I'M not a bigot, I'M incredibly supportive of x minority and sure there's a whole lot of awful people but that's just how it is because there sure is a whole lot of us and it's up to your unrealistic, inhuman model behaviour to change that.

Ignoring that it's just plain wrong to have higher expectations from those actually suffering from oppression, it's also not the slightest bit realistic in the online world of 2023 where people can just throw a narrow spotlight wherever they want to look. People will always be searching for what ever edge cases they can focus on to confirm their own biases and likewise ignore any of the actual good available. It's seen all the time in any discourse where people blatantly pick-and-choose their attention and where they'll respond and that's not worth engaging with.

Validating their intentional sleight of hand isn't helping anything, it's just an endless game of whack-a-mole that goes nowhere or fades the conversation into the mist of confirmation bias. So what if one trans person denounces the "bad" transes when that denunciation will be what's viewed as the individual action and it will so often be taken to mean "yeah see I'm right even trans people agree with me that they're nuts". Not allowing that distraction and forcing their focus towards the sincere conversation is the only way forward.

Chris I think you're really good at understanding righteous anger and seeing past that to reach the real conversation and what I want to encourage more people to do exactly that.

Police your own is pretty bogus tbh.

How many times when discussing racist cops have you heard a racist fuck say well what about the violence in the black community?

Not only that, but when one side is asking for considerations and both their ideological opponents and supposed allies are saying you need to deal with this, it is double-amplifying the severity of the problem.

At face value, the hatred Girlfriend Reviews received seems unacceptable, but then people actually went to the chat logs and something like 1 in 100 comments were deleted, and every other one was just criticismyet this was being echoed as the trans community sent them death threats, when what actually happened was 1% of peoplenone of whom can be identifiedcrossed a line and got modded.

GMUN, you have some really illuminating posts, and I really appreciate your perspective. Nothing of value to contribute, but I just wanted to mention your comments really help me distill my own point of view.

Policing your own was not the best phrase to use there given how it has been used by lesser minds than me and is in fact super dog whistley. Rescind.

What I am talking about is what I have seen on this issue in public spaces from some which is making it about the issue, explaining the harm done, and saying harassing others over this is bad. That's pretty much all you can do. I say all the time the left gets into discussions over how to do things because we have brain cells to rattle around unlike fascists who just group think.

I get your frustration tbh. Can't even convince people that healthcare = good I am surprised this country does anything good some days.

I also understand where you are coming from about all of these double standards. I tried to explain my perspective on that by calling it a rigged game because I feel that's what it is.

I also am forced to really try hard to drain every ounce of emotion I have from politics these days and try to be as cold and calculating as I can be otherwise I would cry every day tbh.

ain't nothin wrong with crying a lot imo

I cry like every week after years of not really being able to, it's oddly refreshing