Poll of the Day > Is Superman any stronger or particularly special compared to any Kryptonian?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Topic

Going by the DC continuities I am familiar with not really. The only thing he has over most Kryptonians is actual experience with the powers they get from non red suns.

No, but...

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

The only thing he has over most Kryptonians is actual experience with the powers they get from non red suns.

Sort of this.

The general implications of Superman for years now is that he's basically a solar battery that absorbs energy from the yellow sun which is then transformed into the fuel for his strength and the resilience of his body.

So because he's been on Earth from infancy, he's had far more time to absorb that energy than any other Kryptonian, and he's had far more time to learn how to use it in multiple ways, so he's better than them in that sense, and will usually win any given one-on-one fight against another Kryptonian.

But if he'd grown up on Krypton, he would have been just an average person like anyone else. He's not amazingly different from anyone else from there. In the same vein, if another Kryptonian had been sent to Earth as an infant and had the same amount of time growing up and honing their skills, they'd probably be just as on par with him, if not better.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

But if he'd grown up on Krypton, he would have been just an average person like anyone else. He's not amazingly different from anyone else from there. In the same vein, if another Kryptonian had been sent to Earth as an infant and had the same amount of time growing up and honing their skills, they'd probably be just as on par with him, if not better.

It's a problem I had with a few situations before, like Zod etc showing up, they mastered the powers right away (or most of them did hehe), and were basically superman's equal in using them (not just in Superman II but in the comics/other movies/tv shows etc).

On the other side it would make sense for the kryptonians to be better fighters in many ways since they actually fought other people their own strength all the time, while superman literally has to pull his punches and not even try for most fights.

Other kryptonians come to earth and can instantly fly (not just in Smallville), Lana Lang got powers and literally could fly the next day. Zod and his gang flew up to the moon, then around the earth within hours of breaking out of the phantom zone etc.

Superman grew up with powers and took years to master them (some versions more than others), why did his cousin (super girl) instantly master them all? Heck even a dog was able to handle everything pretty much right away lol.

superman isn't even the strongest superman

wolfy42 posted...

On the other side it would make sense for the kryptonians to be better fighters in many ways since they actually fought other people their own strength all the time, while superman literally has to pull his punches and not even try for most fights.

Yeah, but they'd have the opposite problem - they're used to fighting without powers, so they have no clue how to compensate for them.

Like, you go to pick up a glass of water and it instantly shatters from the force of your grip. You go to open a door and rip it clean off its hinges. You think you're punching hard enough to knock someone out, but now you've punched clean through their head (and your arm is stuck in the mess). You go to jump over an obstacle, and accidentally leap 400 feet in the air. You constantly feel off-balance from the different gravity, but when you throw your weight to compensate, you flip yourself sidewise into a wall (which then smashes the building and it falls on you).

Basically, imagine playing an FPS until you're really good, and then someone comes in and completely screws with the mouse/controller sensitivity. You'd spend a fair amount of time just panic jerking your gun around and missing pretty much everything because you lack the instincts necessary to know how much physical movement translates into movement in-game. You'd need to readjust. And if you played the game long enough before the change (really locking it in to your muscle memory), you might never be able to fully reach the same level of skill you had before.

For the first few months (if not years) on Earth, Kryptonians should pretty much look like slapstick comedy characters constantly falling over and messing up even the simplest of tasks. Until they adjust, they'd be inept as fuck.

Superman mostly avoids this because he both only develops his powers slowly (in some versions of the character) or learns to adjust right from birth, but also because he's had literal decades to fine-tune his control.

He's been absorbing yellow sunlight since he was a baby, so it probably made his dick big or something from the excess radiation

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Yeah, but they'd have the opposite problem - they're used to fighting without powers, so they have no clue how to compensate for them.

Like, you go to pick up a glass of water and it instantly shatters from the force of your grip. You go to open a door and rip it clean off its hinges. You think you're punching hard enough to knock someone out, but now you've punched clean through their head (and your arm is stuck in the mess). You go to jump over an obstacle, and accidentally leap 400 feet in the air. You constantly feel off-balance from the different gravity, but when you throw your weight to compensate, you flip yourself sidewise into a wall (which then smashes the building and it falls on you).

Basically, imagine playing an FPS until you're really good, and then someone comes in and completely screws with the mouse/controller sensitivity. You'd spend a fair amount of time just panic jerking your gun around and missing pretty much everything because you lack the instincts necessary to know how much physical movement translates into movement in-game. You'd need to readjust. And if you played the game long enough before the change (really locking it in to your muscle memory), you might never be able to fully reach the same level of skill you had before.

For the first few months (if not years) on Earth, Kryptonians should pretty much look like slapstick comedy characters constantly falling over and messing up even the simplest of tasks. Until they adjust, they'd be inept as fuck.

Superman mostly avoids this because he both only develops his powers slowly (in some versions of the character) or learns to adjust right from birth, but also because he's had literal decades to fine-tune his control.

However, it's been shown time and time again that athletes are better at compensating for those kinds of changes so highly-trained soldiers should be a lot better at adjusting for things. And, more importantly, when it comes to using powers in a fight, most of what you're talking about is irrelevant. It's not like there's an incentive to pulling punches.

Count_Drachma posted...

However, it's been shown time and time again that athletes are better at compensating for those kinds of changes

We've done countless tests to determine how capable athletes are at adapting to entirely alien gravity and environmental conditions?

I feel like I missed those tests...



Count_Drachma posted...

so highly-trained soldiers should be a lot better at adjusting for things.

Debatable, considering "soldier" is generally a much different skill set than "athlete".

Sure, soldiers will generally endurance train, and often strength train to some degree for lugging gear around, but the average modern non-melee soldier isn't really training all that effectively for dexterity. Which would be the most important factor.

An ancient spear-fighter might have a much better chance at matching the average athlete for agility-based adaptation, but Krypton mostly had an extremely high-tech military, which leans more into relying on technology rather than perfect physical conditioning.



Count_Drachma posted...

It's not like there's an incentive to pulling punches.

There absolutely is, though.

Ask anyone who fences whether or not it's always optimal strategy to lunge as far forward as they can with every attack. Or a boxer if there's a drawback to constantly punching as wildly as you can and leaving yourself open.

It's not a case of "I'm not trying to hurt my opponent", it's more a case of putting too much force into an attack can result in disadvantages for you. Again, punch too hard and get stuck in whatever you're hitting. Or throw yourself off-balance and leave yourself open to counterattack. It's sort of the logic of judo and aikido - the more force an attacker uses, the more you can redirect it. In most fights, you're far better off controlling how much force you use rather than just channeling 100% into every swing.

Now add that to being completely unused to the existing gravity and atmospheric density because you're on an alien planet.

It depends on the continuity and how they explain the solar battery aspect

I've seen a few vidoes/comics where batman defeats enemies much stronger than him (in one and enemy that defeats wonder woman for instance), by using martial arts techniques and their own strength against them etc.

Personally I think there is a limit to that, especially if the enemy also has super speed and reflexes, you have to actually be able to alter their attacks, have your body as a lever to flip them etc for you to use their strength against them. As long as you are on some kind of even playing field, so that your body isn't the equivalent of made of paper, you can probably have some effect, but I don't really think Batman with all his skills should really be able to defeat someone strong enough to defeat wonder woman (or superman) just because of skill (unless he had something boosting his strength or reducing theirs).

Anyway I agree that you would need to actually adapt and in fact that was one of my points, it's silly that so many kryptonians (both friends/family and enemies) are able to instantly adapt to having the powers. I was just saying though, that if they COULD instantly adapt (which makes no freaking sense at all, but they keep doing it in movies/tv shows etc almost universally) they would be far more deadly than superman who has never actually been trained to fight, had many real challenges against people his own strength etc.

I do agree that in theory at least other kryptonians should not be as effective, or even know how to use many of supermans powers, that should give him a window when he could easily defeat even multiple kryptonians before they become a real threat, seal them in a nucleor chamber or lead lines room etc so they can't absorb the sun until they die. That would make the most sense.

If you do just give them instinctual knowledge of how to use flight/eye beams/freeze breathe/super speed etc though, I think superman would be at a extreme disadvantage even vs a normal every day soldier from his planet, but that is nothing that is even touched apon in any of the stories I have read/movies/shows I have watched etc.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

We've done countless tests to determine how capable athletes are at adapting to entirely alien gravity and environmental conditions?

I feel like I missed those tests...

Because apparently you can't extrapolate by looking at various other tests where athletes were subjected to similar changes or something. Who knew?

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Debatable, considering "soldier" is generally a much different skill set than "athlete".

Is it, though? I guess only one of them undergoes fitness training that includes working on their coordination, balance, strength, and all that.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Sure, soldiers will generally endurance train, and often strength train to some degree for lugging gear around, but the average modern non-melee soldier isn't really training all that effectively for dexterity. Which would be the most important factor.

Oh, meaning soldiers don't do things like obstacle courses? And they don't work on their hand-eye coordination with things like guns?

ParanoidObsessive posted...

An ancient spear-fighter might have a much better chance at matching the average athlete for agility-based adaptation, but Krypton mostly had an extremely high-tech military, which leans more into relying on technology rather than perfect physical conditioning.

Not for nothing, but Krypton had countless anachronistic elements.

Count_Drachma posted...

Is it, though? I guess only one of them undergoes fitness training that includes working on their coordination, balance, strength, and all that.

If you're talking about the fitness test we take on base, those are pretty much pointless. Usually it's just push-ups, crunches, maybe pull-ups (in some cases), and running... At least for the Air Force... The others probably are super different, I would think... But maybe they are...

Count_Drachma posted...

Oh, meaning soldiers don't do things like obstacle courses? And they don't work on their hand-eye coordination with things like guns?

Idk about all the other services. But in the Air Force, we only really the obstacle course at basic... And only once... And plenty of people fell in the water... I didn't. But mostly because I didn't want to drown... And the last water area was like a swamp... But I'm not sure it's a common thing...

Batman can beat anyone with Time To Plan

LinkPizza posted...

Idk about all the other services. But in the Air Force, we only really the obstacle course at basic... And only once... And plenty of people fell in the water... I didn't. But mostly because I didn't want to drown... And the last water area was like a swamp... But I'm not sure it's a common thing...

Things have changed alot then I guess, although it has been over 30 years since I did basic at Lackland AF base in Texas. We did runs with full packs every day pretty much during basic (except on black flag days), we also had try outs for the special forces (involved climbing/swimming/running etc). There were a bunch of dudes who were not in good enough shape when they joined, it was pretty sad.

I would imagine things have changed drastically since then though since most of the rest of the world, and certainly rules at school etc, have changed so much. I can't imagine the students of mine who are never told no by their parents going through basic at all lol.

wolfy42 posted...

Things have changed alot then I guess, although it has been over 30 years since I did basic at Lackland AF base in Texas. We did runs with full packs every day pretty much during basic (except on black flag days), we also had try outs for the special forces (involved climbing/swimming/running etc). There were a bunch of dudes who were not in good enough shape when they joined, it was pretty sad.

I would imagine things have changed drastically since then though since most of the rest of the world, and certainly rules at school etc, have changed so much. I can't imagine the students of mine who are never told no by their parents going through basic at all lol.

Things change at Basic every year. Even now, its much different from when I was in But we didnt do runs with full packs everyday. Im not even sure if we ever did a run with a full pack

That said, special forces is much different than regular basic

LinkPizza posted...

That said, special forces is much different than regular basic

I was just in regular basic. They had try outs during it though (Think 500 of us? I forget the number now). Anyway I came in 3rd and thought I was in. I was 17 and totally stocked. The video they had to motivate us was amazing lol.

I got disqualified because of my eyesight. I lacked the depth perception they said was needed for the scuba stuff. I was so disappointed.

But yeah, I imagine it has changed drastically multiple times since then. I joined the first year women were able to join as well, they had a whole different section for them on the base, and some of the "older" guys in my flight would sneak over there at night lol.

That all was so long ago though it seems like a different life now.

wolfy42 posted...

I was just in regular basic. They had try outs during it though (Think 500 of us? I forget the number now). Anyway I came in 3rd and thought I was in. I was 17 and totally stocked. The video they had to motivate us was amazing lol.

I got disqualified because of my eyesight. I lacked the depth perception they said was needed for the scuba stuff. I was so disappointed.

But yeah, I imagine it has changed drastically multiple times since then. I joined the first year women were able to join as well, they had a whole different section for them on the base, and some of the "older" guys in my flight would sneak over there at night lol.

That all was so long ago though it seems like a different life now.

What I mean is they end up doing different stuff eventually They do all the normal basic stuff But then extra stuff, as well

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

Going by the DC continuities I am familiar with not really. The only thing he has over most Kryptonians is actual experience with the powers they get from non red suns.

None of that explains how supergirl is stronger than superman.

Superman is built like a tank and has far more experience, but for some reason Kara is stronger than him.