Current Events > Has the Pokemon series ever explained why you cant catch a mon that fainted?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is that just too extreme for the enslaved animal fighting universe?

it goes tiny

They shrink and get away. On the topic of animal fighting I find it interesting that the man who wrote the original anime and was in charge of the writing, who also wrote the first 3 movies, described Pokmon as a series about enslaving animals in his blog. That's pretty interesting coming from an influential figure since the anime was instrumental in popularizing Pokmon by making it a living world in the way the games couldn't portray.

Its immoral to catch something that cant fight back anymore is the most logical one. Goes from being animal enslavement adjacent to straight up animal enslavement.

Okay if they shrink and get away where do they heal and grow to regular size? Also why tf don't they just make Pokeshocknets or Pokeharpoonguns

Smashingpmkns posted...

Pokeharpoonguns

Wailord: Wailord wail!
Captain Ahab: Yar, thar's the beast! Man the harpoons!

it's a subtle way to say that they're dead.

It's weird because in the anime they actually do catch some pokemon that fainted i think

Piplup_Sniper posted...

I find it interesting that the man who wrote the original anime and was in charge of the writing, who also wrote the first 3 movies, described Pokmon as a series about enslaving animals in his blog.

How can you watch the first movie and be surprised by this

It's literally what the movie is about

It would be without its consent.

Because then the game would have to prompt you "do you want to catch the fainted mon?" every single time you won a wild battle, and that would get annoying quick.

I don't see how kidnapping a konscious human being, kicking and screamiing the entire time, is any more or less immoral/unethical than kindapping a human being you drugged or knocked out first...

Piplup_Sniper posted...

They shrink and get away. On the topic of animal fighting I find it interesting that the man who wrote the original anime and was in charge of the writing, who also wrote the first 3 movies, described Pokmon as a series about enslaving animals in his blog. That's pretty interesting coming from an influential figure since the anime was instrumental in popularizing Pokmon by making it a living world in the way the games couldn't portray.

I found a few quotes now that I remember where they were at. DeepL was used for translation:

The idea that "we can coexist with each other only when we recognize that we are who we are and that we are different from others" is not the same nuance as what adults often tell children: "We may be of different races and ethnicities, but we are all human beings, so let's get along with each other.
In "Pokemon," Pokemon, a different species of animal from humans, is added to the mix.
Humans and Pokmon acquired by humans seem to get along well, but the acquired Pokmon are like slaves, fighting at the behest of humans.
Just because they are slaves does not mean that they lead miserable lives. History shows that good slaves were valued more than ordinary commoners. Slaves with superior skills were even respected in ancient times. Many philosophers and scientists came from slaves.

Source: http://www.style.fm/as/05_column/shudo208.shtml

For example, where is the difference between wild Pokmon and Pokmon kept by humans?
Moreover, a domesticated Pokmon is raised as a fighter.
The purpose is to help their owners, the trainers, rise in the ranks.
Pokmon are tools for humans.
How does this look from the wild Pokmon's point of view?
"You are caged slaves, aren't you?
From the wild side, it may be an object of scorn and discrimination.
In fact, in the novel version of "Pokemon," there is a scene early in the story where Satoshi's Pikachu is rejected by a wild female Pikachu that he meets in the forest because he is kept by humans.

Source:
http://www.style.fm/as/05_column/shudo175.shtml

In fact, in the novel version of "Pokemon," there is a scene early in the story where Satoshi's Pikachu is rejected by a wild female Pikachu that he meets in the forest because he is kept by humans.

I distinctly recall some episode of the anime that explored basically this, but it instead focused on Team Rocket's Meowth.

I didn't see much of the anime beyond the first couple seasons, but I do remember that episode standing out.

Philip027 posted...

I distinctly recall some episode of the anime that explored basically this, but it instead focused on Team Rocket's Meowth.

I didn't see much of the anime beyond the first couple seasons, but I do remember that episode standing out.

It was the opposite, at least, as far as the wild/captured dynamic goes. That female Meowth was owned by a rich woman and looked down on Meowth because she saw him as gutter trash. But when Meowth essentially crippled himself to learn how to walk and talk like a human to impress her, she still rejected him because now he was a "freak".

ngl if I had a meowth that walked and talked like a human i'd fall in love, free pokemon translator.

Ricemills posted...

it's a subtle way to say that they're dead.

nah

You revive all your pokemon all the time

Blue even says "You're pokemon aren't dead but I can make them faint " in Gen 1

Philip027 posted...

Because then the game would have to prompt you "do you want to catch the fainted mon?" every single time you won a wild battle, and that would get annoying quick.

this and itd make catching em all way too easy

They may as well change the line The Pokmon fainted to The Pokmon was scared away.

Because after the battle their corpse- I mean their fainted bodies are nowhere to be found.

Akagami_Shanks posted...

It's weird because in the anime they actually do catch some pokemon that fainted i think

They do, but nowadays generally don't without the pokemons concent.

Usually by earning its trust and or proving themselves beforehand in battle. For Ashs cash almost all his pokemon aside from the regional birds often are caught in that fashion.

UnfairRepresent posted...

nah

You revive all your pokemon all the time

Blue even says "You're pokemon aren't dead but I can make them faint " in Gen 1

caught pokemon, not wild ones.
what's stopping trainers to bring fainted wild Pokemon to the center?

iPhone_7 posted...

They may as well change the line The Pokmon fainted to The Pokmon was scared away.

Because after the battle their corpse- I mean their fainted bodies are nowhere to be found.

That's because Pokmon shrink as a defense mechanism. That's why there's no body, Pokmon only get exhausted after battles so being tiny makes it easier to find a safe place and rest.

Solar_Crimson posted...

It was the opposite, at least, as far as the wild/captured dynamic goes. That female Meowth was owned by a rich woman and looked down on Meowth because she saw him as gutter trash. But when Meowth essentially crippled himself to learn how to walk and talk like a human to impress her, she still rejected him because now he was a "freak".

Yup. IIRC Meowth was also a stray Pokmon. He was rejected for being unnatural and trying to mimic being human. What's funny is that modern Meowths walks on two legs by default but back than they didn't.

Fun fact, Meowth being able to talk was the decision of the anime staff in order to have a way for the Pokmon to be able to communicate with the audience. According to Shudo this is one of the reasons Team Rocket shows up frequently. In an old interview from 2000:
https://lavacutcontent.com/tajiri-tsunekazu-ishihara-interview/

It's mentioned that Satoshi Tajiri made an IQ chart for Pokmon in the context of talking about Team Rocket's Meowth in order for the anime staff to get a better sense of which Pokmon to pick for the talking role, apparently Tajiri wasn't down with the idea of talking Pokmon but it was a necessity in the context of the anime. In the end Shudo mentions that Meowth was picked because he appeared charming and evil.

On the topic of domestic and wild Pokmon I don't think that was ever really talked about in the anime afaik. But it is something that the games touch upon with Dr. Footstep quotes:

Level 4: "Some wild Pokmon frown upon others for traveling with humans. They jeer that the caught Pokmon have "forgotten the wild." But that view is mistaken. They have just never met a Trainer who could be a great partner. A great partner like <player>, in other words..."

What's interesting about this dynamic in the series, for Shudo this dynamic was more of being seen as slaves and unfree, is the implications that wild Pokmon look down on domesticated Pokmon because they're *jealous* rather than having a sense of being free and superior.

Level 5: "<player> is... A remarkable human and Trainer. That I can always perform the best any <Pokmon> possibly can... I attribute that entirely to my partner <player>. When we travel, I can see wild Pokmon eyeing us enviously..."

This is implied on other dr. footstep quotes like the one with scary pokemon:

Level 4: "Not for a moment did I think I would be traveling with a human... If my <Pokmon> friends were to see me now, they would be shocked. Or would they be envious of me...?"

This is pretty much spelled out with this one:

Level 5: "There are no Pokmon that dislike humans... Only humans that dislike Pokmon... We <Pokmon> are especially shunned... But <player> always treats me as a friend and partner..."

Mind you this quote originates from Pokmon classified as "scary". The dynamic in Pokmon is that Pokmon are creatures that are naturally friendly towards humans and can bond with them as long as one has love for them. There is still assholes in the Pokmon world that abuse and abandon their Pokmon like with the Pokmon village in kalos made up of Pokmon that escaped their abusive owners.

This viewpoint is the foundation of Legends of Arceus as the game implies that the reason Pokmon act aggressive towards humans is because humans fear them but when humans bond with Pokmon they become a lot friendlier. The lady by the pastures mentions that Pokmon must want to be friendly with humans if they haven't escaped, and really the only thing holding them is a small wooden fence. This is seen thought the game as people start to learn more about Pokmon. In a lot of ways Pokmon are very much like dogs, creatures in the real world that are naturally affectionate towards humans thus it's no wonder that the man who created Pokmon pretty much describes them as being like dogs in his biography.

Those pokemon have a slightly different future ahead.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/8/6/AAEhCpAAD9om.jpg

I hate this explanation but

every single Pokmon has the ability to shrink to microscopic sizes. Theyll do that when they faint as a survival tactic. The shrinking is also how they fit into pokeballs.

I HATE HATE HATE HATE that this is real and canon but thats the way it is. Ever since Legends Arceus explained it. This is the midichlorians of Pokmon.

Hopefully they retcon it by saying get back in those ancient days, people didnt know what they were talking about

discodancer77 posted...

I hate this explanation but

every single Pokmon has the ability to shrink to microscopic sizes. Theyll do that when they faint as a survival tactic. The shrinking is also how they fit into pokeballs.

I HATE HATE HATE HATE that this is real and canon but thats the way it is. Ever since Legends Arceus explained it. This is the midichlorians of Pokmon.

Hopefully they retcon it by saying get back in those ancient days, people didnt know what they were talking about

Actually, the shrinking explanation was supposedly always a thing, but was explained much earlier in Japanese sources. PLA is the first time it's been referenced in media exported outside of Japan.

The first reference to shrinking comes from the 1996 Pokedex which was never officially translated.

I mean, the shrinking thing makes sense to me. Why else would they be called Pocket Monsters?

Piplup_Sniper posted...

The first reference to shrinking comes from the 1996 Pokedex which was never officially translated.

Yeah, and on another note, if I'm thinking of the right book, it also solidified the fact that Nidorina loses the ability to produce Eggs when it evolves from NidoranF. For years, the English fanbase assumed that it was a coding error from Gold/Silver that they retained for consistency, but Nidorina and Nidoqueen not being able to breed was canonized three years prior.

discodancer77 posted...

I hate this explanation but

every single Pokmon has the ability to shrink to microscopic sizes. Theyll do that when they faint as a survival tactic. The shrinking is also how they fit into pokeballs.

I HATE HATE HATE HATE that this is real and canon but thats the way it is. Ever since Legends Arceus explained it. This is the midichlorians of Pokmon.

Hopefully they retcon it by saying get back in those ancient days, people didnt know what they were talking about

I mean, it's not nearly as bad as midichlorians. Midichlorians changed the entire lore of Star Wars and the idea of what the force was. Pokemon being able to shrink doesn't really change anything. It's, at very worst, kinda dumb.

Midichlorians are cool. Pokmon shrinking isn't even real. Arceus is a spinoff game.

Solar_Crimson posted...

Yeah, and on another note, if I'm thinking of the right book, it also solidified the fact that Nidorina loses the ability to produce Eggs when it evolves from NidoranF. For years, the English fanbase assumed that it was a coding error from Gold/Silver that they retained for consistency, but Nidorina and Nidoqueen not being able to breed was canonized three years prior.

Here's part of the book translated by Dr. Lava:
https://lavacutcontent.com/1996-creatures-pokedex-translation-1/

Worth noting that the pokedex entries are different than what you see in the games. It's possible there's outdated information there. But the shrinking phenomenon has been shown in the anime, Legends of Arceus just solidified it.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/4/7/AARO5TAAD9rH.jpg

lilORANG posted...

Midichlorians are cool. Pokmon shrinking isn't even real. Arceus is a spinoff game.

Game Freak officially classifies it as mainline

jumi posted...

Wailord: Wailord wail!
Captain Ahab: Yar, thar's the beast! Man the harpoons!

Call me Ashmael

So wait, if the pokemon shrink, does the red laser beam coming from the pokeball just like... force that on them?

Why cant every pokemon learn Minimize if that's the case? If it takes effort why dont we have an item that uses the same tech to force them to minimize for battle?

So many unanswered questions.

Pokemon choose their masters which they cannot do if they've fainted. They can only grow by battling & evolving which requires a master to take some kind of action.

This is also why weaker pokemon are easier to catch. They have low standards and will take basically any master that comes along with a PokeBall.

lilORANG posted...

Midichlorians are cool. Pokmon shrinking isn't even real. Arceus is a spinoff game.

It's a mainline game, get over it.
Piplup_Sniper posted...

Here's part of the book translated by Dr. Lava:
https://lavacutcontent.com/1996-creatures-pokedex-translation-1/

Worth noting that the pokedex entries are different than what you see in the games. It's possible there's outdated information there. But the shrinking phenomenon has been shown in the anime, Legends of Arceus just solidified it.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/4/7/AARO5TAAD9rH.jpg

It's weird because at one point didn't they say the inside of the ball was quite comfortable like a high end suite?

lilORANG posted...

Midichlorians are cool. Pokmon shrinking isn't even real. Arceus is a spinoff game.

PLA is mainline, and shrinking Pokemon was established as far back as 1996.

Piplup_Sniper posted...

Worth noting that the pokedex entries are different than what you see in the games. It's possible there's outdated information there.

Yeah, plus a lot of it was either changed or was just never translated into languages beyond Japanese. Early Pokemon was kind of weird as the Pokemon world wasn't fully established yet, and there was this slight air of grittiness that the older games and anime had that has since been phased out.

yeah pokemon wasn't a phenomenon back then so they got away with darker shit like pokemon graveyards

now that it's a household name for kids they gotta keep it as safe as possible
the newer games do have pokemon graves but they're more tame than the nightmare fuel that was Gen 1 >)>

I'm curious about something, what about someone capturing YOUR Pokemon? I know it's against the rules to capture a Pokemon in a Trainer Battle, but someone like Team Rocket shouldn't give a crap about the rules of a Trainer Battle. Has someone in any of the games captured your lead Pokemon as a story device?

Bad_Mojo posted...

I'm curious about something, what about someone capturing YOUR Pokemon? I know it's against the rules to capture a Pokemon in a Trainer Battle, but someone like Team Rocket shouldn't give a crap about the rules of a Trainer Battle. Has someone in any of the games captured your lead Pokemon as a story device?

It's apparently trivially easy for another trainer to swat away thrown balls it's not really in the rules as much as it is just impossible.

iirc in pokemon colosseum you can capture other peoples pokemon
and in movie 1 mewtwo captures trainers pokemon
in the anime tho it just bounces off as they're already tagged

One of the manga series, depicts the world how the creator truly intended. I think its Pokmon Special. Apparently humans and Pokmon can die in battle

The games are a child friendly watered down version of the original concept

I'm pretty sure the idea is supposed to be that you're forging somewhat of a contract with the Pokemon, or the pokemon at least needs some sorta consent in the matter. (Can't do that if it's ko'd)

they aint shit if they fainted

Arceus warps time and space to remove them from your ability to catch