Board 8 > Plum Reads (Plays?) Uminkeo The Playthrough topic 2 - Episode 7+

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well it isn't quite that cut and dry

IF MARIA IS A CULPRIT GEORGE IS ONE TOO

That is red truth

The problem with going backwards is you have cascading culprits

for instance suppose we assume maria and George are culprits together. That means Jessica also could be alive and a culprit

Well suddenly that means Nanjo isn't necessarily dead as everyone who confirmed his death could be lying. So Nanjo is now potentially a culprit!

Well now both Gohda and Kumasawa can be alive too as they were only examined by Jessica and Nanjo!

Hooray up to 5-6 culprits!

Now, if we can somehow prove that Jessica isn't a culprit suddenly a lot of these possibilities instantly die

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/5/6/AANz_VAAD-xk.png

This is a terrible statement though. Can I assume that it means she did die instantly?

I hope george is a culprit for no other reason than I don't want to make a judgement call on what exactly this phrase means

So I need to prove Maria innocent somehow

Well it says in the rules that culprits have to be alive, and in red text Kanon is treated as being killed.

That means

Kanon is not the culprit
Genji is not the culprit (Via Kanon)
All of the servants didn't kill ... Krauss and Natsuhi?

Well hold on a second on that one. How does that work?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/6/4/AANz_VAAD-xs.png

Mmm, this could be an out here. What if the room wasn't locked and Gohda was lying? This would require our cascading Jessica/Nanjo criminal enterprise.

But I suppose that could be Possible

Maybe the next step is try to find an obvious flaw in (Gohda/Nanjo/Jessica/George/Maria) My guess is the sealed rooms might make this impossible

The other obvious problem is if all of those people are culprits why not other people too! We have what... 10 people who die in that scenario? Why not more culprits!

Ok meeting time. Will pick this back up in a few hours

All right back to it

I think the first thing to do is disprove the criminal enterprise theory, and I think the easiest way to do that is see if we can balloon this up to absurd levels

So can shannon be a culprit here (Other than the fact that Shannon could be Kannon somehow)

I don't think so. Shannon said that the children confirmed their dead parents. If this is false, I think this is simply unsolvable. Any of the 5 parents could be faking death and participated in the crime. That just leaves open too many possibilities.

Shannon is ... probably not the culprit

Now here is another question though, if each of the children confirmed their own parents, do we have a similar problem if the children are culprits? Lets take George. If George is a culprit that means he "Confirmed" the death of his parents.

Well what if his parents are also culprits? Do we include them? Or what if George is a culprit but is telling the truth? Then his parent's aren't culprits

That doesn't seem like a solveable problem

Does this confirm the children aren't culprits?

I might also be overthinking this. There is a level of ambiguity here that makes me uncomfortable

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/3/2/AANz_VAAD-yw.png

This is a big problem regarding Krauss and Natsuhi

This is like the children checking parents problem but magnified.

The only real out to this locked room is this statement

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/3/3/AANz_VAAD-yx.png

But in order for it to be a lie Gohda has to be a culprit

In which case Nanjo has to be a culprit for Gohda to be alive

Which means that Krauss and Natsuhi are in the cat box. They are neither alive nor dead. And if they aren't dead they could have conceivably killed some of the first 6 victims

WAIT WAIT WAIT

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/4/4/AANz_VAAD-y8.png

This could be a lie

CAN WE MAKE NANJO (And thus Gohda) BE DEAD.... We still need a servant to lock the first door though.... Or have a child not confirm their parents? But shit, who the hell is that child? We need Jessica to be a culprit but it isn't her parents. Her parents die. It can't be Maria unless it was also george right? And hell, why not Battler! Him, George, Maria, and Jessica all going around murdering everyone

Shit

masterplum posted...

...

Is shannon and Kanon the same person somehow

I have no idea how that would possibly make sense in a lot of ways, but it would simultaneously clear up a lot of problems and also make a lot of new ones!

Remember what the bulk of Episode 6 was about?

tcaz2 posted...

Remember what the bulk of Episode 6 was about?

Well yes, but logistically I'm not sure how it makes any sense.

I actually had this consideration they were the same person while thinking through how exactly Battler got saved but dismissed it because it said in red that shannon was in one of the rooms

Let me see....

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/8/0/AANz_VAAD-zg.png

That was what made me toss out that idea

I guess I have one question before I consider hitting that hint button

Is there enough information to figure this out here or do I need to make inferences based on the last 115 hours

it's all self-contained in this thing

Yeah its 100% self contained. Has no bearing on anything before it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/2/5/AANz_VAAD-0N.png

Shoot, I forgot about that one.... That actually makes things ...

Hmm

Something

At least it stops it from ballooning out of control.

So I'm pretty close to asking for a hint.

I'm basically on my last gasp here looking at this
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/8/3/AANz_VAAD-5z.jpg

So... Perhaps there is a trick here. Battler says the seemingly unimportant statement that nobody has an alibi.. but that is contradicted by Jessica's purple

So even if that purple is meaningless, it means that either Battler or Jessica is a culprit

But then we reach a problem where Jessica can't be a culprit without both George and Maria being culprits

So can we make it work with only Battler? That is the line I'm going down (Or at least Battler + X)

Shit, same problem here

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/8/8/AANz_VAAD-54.jpg

So now either Jessica is the killer or Gohda is the killer?

And if Gohda is the killer that spawns the killing entourage right?

Maybe time to rexamine if there is a way it is just jessica

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/9/1/AANz_VAAD-57.png

But that proves that if Jessica is not the culprit, then Gohda is not the culprit

So

That means Jessica and Battler have to be culprits right?

Maybe I'm reading too much into that

For funnies I accused a killing entourage of George maria Jessica nanjo gohda

To the shock of nobody that was wrong

I want to verify a assumptions here

The Red truth: Kanon is treated as being killed and Kanon's key is treated as being destroyed is independent of Shannon's "Death?" right? As in we have red Truth Kanon is not the culprit correct?

Also

Purple truths are standalone correct? For instance

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/4/AANz_VAAD---.png

The purple truth is that they died instantly and the I believe is flavor text that has no bearing on it?

I keep revolving around that Gohda statement that nobody has an alibi

Problematically it seems regardless of truth it spirals out of control

If true:

Battler is lying. Battler is the Culprit Jessica is the Culprit. George and Maria are Culprits because they verify Jessicas death

If false:

Gohda is lying, he is the culprit. Nanjo is lying he confirmed Gohda. Jessica is lying she confirmed Nanjo. George and Maria are culprits they verified Jessica.

I feel like I am hard locked here

you've spent a lot of time on this.

i did not spend this amount of time.

i mean, if you're having fun! but no one would judge you for using the hints. well, at least i wouldn't.

Dels posted...

you've spent a lot of time on this.

i did not spend this amount of time.

i mean, if you're having fun! but no one would judge you for using the hints. well, at least i wouldn't.

I kind of figured this is true, but it felt bad half assing the one puzzle I'm asked to solve after one hundred hours

it's tough but it's doable but it's not worth getting super worked up over if you don't wanna!

the hints also come in one at a time from what i recall? it won't give it away just from one hint. correct me if i'm wrong.

One last push then I'm going for hints. The problem is I have a feeling the first few hints are going to be completely useless and then a hint will just give it away. Trying not to get to that point

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/5/2/AANz_VAAD_BI.png

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/5/3/AANz_VAAD_BJ.png

I mean it has to revolve around these statements by Gohda and Battler. In both cases Jessica contradicts them meaning Jessica has to be the culprit

If this isn't correct then something is really off and I am never going to get it.

Maybe I just start making guesses

I felt like the solution was pretty straightforward, but don't feel bad about using the hints. It's not that big of a deal if you can't figure it out.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/5/6/AANz_VAAD_BM.jpg

Shit

So the white is true as well. Maybe that is actually a good hint

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/6/8/AANz_VAAD_BY.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/6/9/AANz_VAAD_BZ.jpg

Dammit

Damn stupid game playing damn stupid word play tricks

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/8/1/AANz_VAAD_Bl.png

So

Nanjo being dead dead means

Shannon, Kanon, Genji, Gohda, Kumasawa, Nanjo, Krauss, Natsuhi

are all not the culprit

Wait what

So we do have a true locked room then. All 5 servants are cleared dead and the white text says there are no hidden people

Ok well this is dumb

Made another guess and it pointed out the description in 8 means Jessica is dead

But clearly that is a contradiction as Gohda says in now red truth nobody has an alibi and Jessica says in red truth people have an alibi

Flips table

I'm annoyed. I'll come back tonight

I'm assuming the alibi/no alibi statements refer to separate events.

Leonhart4 posted...

I'm assuming the alibi/no alibi statements refer to separate events.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/6/9/AANz_VAAD_C9.jpg

So that's new information, in which multiple people without purple statements say George couldn't have killed Shannon (and only Shannon. Doesn't say he couldn't have killed anyone else).

Leonhart4 posted...

So that's new information, in which multiple people without purple statements say George couldn't have killed Shannon.

In red truth sense that makes no sense as the game frequently used red truth as time independent.

So we have red truth both that nobody has an alibi and red truth that George has an alibi

It's really dumb. Red truth has never been time dependent before regarding an identical incident

Dels posted...

the hints also come in one at a time from what i recall? it won't give it away just from one hint. correct me if i'm wrong.

Yep, I took like twenty before I got it lol
mostly because I didn't realize you could accuse multiple people lol

It doesn't mean George has an alibi for everything, just Shannon. It's an addendum, not a contradiction.

Leonhart4 posted...

It doesn't mean George has an alibi for everything, just Shannon. It's an addendum, not a contradiction.

In a game where the slightest wording change changes the range of possibilities I still find this frustratingly vague

Tried a few combinations without really much logic to them and stumbled on the answer.

I don't really feel great about how this went down as I have no idea why this combination should work. It just was one of the only ones that didn't seem completely impossible.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/2/7/AANz_VAAD_Fb.jpg
One off art is so good still

makes me feel better

As an aside, one of the reasons I also wrote this off as a possibility is there is no way to prove both parents were culprits from the text. One parent could be dead and one could be alive and there is zero evidence to show which of those 3 options is could be 2 alive, kyrie dead or rudolph dead.

Because of this I wrote that off as unsolvable which probably meant it was a clue that was the wrong answer and I kept going with Rosa combinations because that is the only parent that could be alive. I think I went with Rosa/George/Maria 2 or 3 attempts before this one.

Bleh.

Whatever. won't lose sleep over not getting it.

masterplum posted...

Tried a few combinations without really much logic to them and stumbled on the answer.

I don't really feel great about how this went down as I have no idea why this combination should work. It just was one of the only ones that didn't seem completely impossible.

you could reload your save and go through all the hints? i think they kinda spell it out by the end.

it ultimately was along the lines you were thinking, if you poke at enough of the purples you can piece together a few spots where something isn't as confirmed as it seems. i found it kind of cheap but i guess some people are into that type of mystery.

also you seem to have noticed this but the answer *does* require the narration. i remember i tried to get it entirely via the summarized notes but you actually do have to go back into each segment and read all of it to find some stuff.

i do think it ultimately has a good reason for why you can come to this exact trio but i can't remeber the details.

Oh, they have to kill 6 people so that means they have to kill 4

Ok I retract that problem. I suppose I didn't think about them hiding in that room before krauss and natushi

Dels posted...

you could reload your save and go through all the hints? i think they kinda spell it out by the end.

it ultimately was along the lines you were thinking, if you poke at enough of the purples you can piece together a few spots where something isn't as confirmed as it seems. i found it kind of cheap but i guess some people are into that type of mystery.

Yeah that's what I did.

The funny thing is I also noticed that they seemed to have not sealed the room until after the second set of murders but I didn't piece together that meant the first murders would have hidden in the room of the second before it happened.

That seems from a logistical sense.... pretty far fetched.

I don't know. This is why I like why dunits more.

yeah that's how i feel as well. it almost feels like it's all sleight of hand, like for 4 of the twilights they say "the room was locked. no one was hiding. no one was X, there was no Y, no one could've Z" and then for one of them they say all the same stuff but they don't say "no one was hiding" and you just have to be like "oh, for this one specific time they didn't say that, guess that means that's the answer" and it's almost just busywork trying to find the one spot where they only confirmed 9 things in red instead of 10 like usual

Once they said the kids verified their parents' deaths, that basically told me it had to be parents and a kid because one kid would have to be lying since it wasn't any of the servants. Examining all the statements made it pretty easy to narrow it down to Battler, Kyrie, and Rudolph, at least for me.

Leonhart4 posted...

Once they said the kids verified their parents' deaths, that basically told me it had to be parents and a kid because one kid would have to be lying since it wasn't any of the servants. Examining all the statements in light of that made it pretty easy to narrow it down to Battler, Kyrie, and Rudolph, at least for me.

I mean Maria also said George could only kill children and that turned out to be completely irrelevant

Yeah I pretty much solved in like 30 minutes or so myself and didn't have to think terribly hard about it IIRC <_<

Granted it was *checks calender* oh god almost 12 years ago, so I can't be 100% confident that's what happened. Also I spent like the last few years before it spending a good chunk of my free time between Episodes theorizing with the fanbase so I was already used to going through everything with a fine tooth comb.

masterplum posted...

I mean Maria also said George could only kill children and that turned out to be completely irrelevant

Well yeah, that's something that would rule out George as a killer, if nothing else.

Leonhart4 posted...

Well yeah, that's something that would rule out George as a killer, if nothing else.

Except he could then have killed Jessica and Shannon right